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| mnathani_ | We want to let you know about some upcoming changes to OneDrive. On July 13, 2016, the amount of storage that comes with OneDrive will change from 15 GB to 5 GB.
just as storage it becoming a cheaper commodity | [14:46] |
| mike-burns | Apparently not! | [14:50] |
| brycec | I imagine it has more to do with abuse of OneDrive's limits. Not long ago they stopped offering their 1TB (or unlimited? Can't remember) due to abuse. | [14:51] |
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| up_the_irons | I remember when there were the floods in Thailand or something like that in that region, I couldn't buy more drives to build servers | [15:31] |
| brycec | Yeah but that was like 4+ years ago now
Still took awhile for the prices to come back down though :/ | [15:31] |
| up_the_irons | yeah i'm not saying it's from that | [15:36] |
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| brycec | up_the_irons / mercutio: What do you think about including sha256sum in the backup service chroot? The other day I was looking to verify file contents and noticed there was no checksumming tool available so I just went by file size. I think it could be useful for other customers, and myself, if file integrity could be verified storage-side, but I understand too if you're concerned about users eating up
CPU. (lol, just 4 letters too long for a single line) (I thought about emailing that, but thought it could benefit from IRC/forum discussion too. | [15:53] |
| up_the_irons | I think that would be fine | [15:57] |
| brycec | With Germany coming online soon, any plans to offer/move backup space that is geographically separated?
"soon" = "someday" i gues s | [15:58] |
| up_the_irons | Yep, we want to offer "remote" backup too | [15:58] |
| brycec | Can you be price-competitive with S3? :P
"The pricing would be higher to cover bandwidth costs; it is estimated to be $0.20 per GB. ^ Current blurb on the kb | [15:59] |
| up_the_irons | brycec: give sha256sum a try
brycec: what pricing would you like to see? | [16:02] |
| I've also added md5sum and xz | [16:09] | |
| mercutio | 15gb to 5gb is a huge change
it seems bizzare. but i suppose they're not charging for it? doesn't gmail give like 8gb now days? | [16:13] |
| mnathani_ | you are the product, when the product is free :-) | [16:14] |
| mercutio | 0.96 GB (0%) of 115 GB used
wtf gmail gives 115gb of space! | [16:14] |
| mike-burns | Is OneDrive an advertising company? | [16:14] |
| mercutio | it's microsfot
i think it comes with windows 10. | [16:14] |
| up_the_irons | interesting | [16:14] |
| mercutio | i want to see this linux on windows thing
i wonder if it's in beta test | [16:17] |
| mike-burns | I assume it looks like Ubuntu. | [16:17] |
| up_the_irons | the article by Dustin Kirkland was interesting | [16:17] |
| mercutio | it is! | [16:17] |
| BryceBot | That's what she said!! | [16:17] |
| mercutio | i shouldn't be so excited that it includes vim :) | [16:18] |
| mnathani_ | up_the_irons: you mean this one: ? http://blog.dustinkirkland.com/2016/04/howto-ubuntu-on-windows.html | [16:19] |
| up_the_irons | yup
mercutio: that even excites me maybe I'll be rocking a Surface by summer ;) | [16:19] |
| mnathani_ | this isnt some cygwin crap is it? | [16:19] |
| up_the_irons | mnathani_: no it actually seems pretty good. real-time syscall translation. It's like wine but in reverse.
mnathani_: so the binaries run natively, in a way | [16:25] |
| brycec | That's a silly question :P 15:58:52 @up_the_irons | brycec: what pricing would you like to see? | [16:25] |
| mike-burns | Similar to what GNU HURD and Minix do, I suppose -- a POSIX compatibility layer. | [16:26] |
| mnathani_ | I really should watch the build developer conference presentation on the subject
up_the_irons: thanks for breaking it down for me | [16:26] |
| brycec | mike-burns: It's more than POSIX - Windows has been POSIX for awhile (though recent releases have been shedding some POSIX rules)
It's actual syscall emulation/compatability, meaning binaries themselves work | [16:27] |
| mike-burns | Right, right -- it's Ubuntu, not POSIX. | [16:27] |
| brycec | And yes it is in beta test, mercutio. It's rolling out now to those on the "fast track" or whatever it's call "ring" | [16:27] |
| mike-burns | I read somewhere that fork(2) was the hard part. | [16:27] |
| brycec | up_the_irons: sha256sum and md5sum both work :) | [16:28] |
| up_the_irons | brycec: :) | [16:28] |
| mnathani_ | I just submitted a sales@ request from the portal, but did not get an email confirmation. Is that normal? | [16:28] |
| brycec | PS Thanks mercutio
I thought only support@ got confirmation emails | [16:28] |
| up_the_irons | brycec: what I mean is, S3 pricing is complicated to me, so if you simply tell me what pricing is attractive to you, I can say whether it's possible or not | [16:28] |
| brycec | up_the_irons: Ah thanks for clarifying | [16:29] |
| up_the_irons | mnathani_: i think it's only support@ that has the auto responder | [16:29] |
| mnathani_ | s3 charges for byte storages as well as bandwidth transfer in+out
arp only charges for byte storages, ie: bandwidth is thrown in | [16:29] |
| brycec | up_the_irons: the simple explanation is that S3 is 3C/GB ($.03) for triple-replication with no cost for uploaded data.
mnathani_: out only (unless you're referring to PUT/COPY/LIST etc requests) up_the_irons: So something "competitive" would be around that 3C/GB mark | [16:30] |
| up_the_irons | OK thanks for the info | [16:31] |
| brycec | Personally, I store my offsite backups in S3's "reduced redundancy storage" meaning it's only double-replicated (sorta RAID-1, ish) which is priced as $.0125/GB/mo | [16:31] |
| up_the_irons | It might be hard to compete with a company that has probably the most amount of storage in the world, but I'll see what I can do ;) | [16:32] |
| brycec | ARP's advantage is being able to nfs or ssh access my data with no bandwidth limits/pricing at all (on-network) | [16:32] |
| up_the_irons | yeah we keep it simple that way | [16:32] |
| brycec | Oh yeah and the pricing is way simpler ;) | [16:33] |
| mercutio | mnathani_: your email did come through | [16:34] |
| brycec: so it's cheaper to have two dual-replicated backups than one triple-replicated backup? | [16:46] | |
| brycec | Bear in mind the replication is behind the scenes, invisible to me
(in case that wasn't understood) | [16:47] |
| mercutio | yeah, so it's less effort to use their triple replicated. | [16:47] |
| brycec | The only difference for me to use their standard (triple) vs rrs (double) is the --use-rrs switch in duplicity ;) | [16:47] |
| mercutio | i've got a friend who was using amazon virtual machine (or whatever they call it) and the I/O was extremely bad.
there was some kind of auto-throttling where things became near unusable. that said he was running scripts to create database records. | [16:48] |
| up_the_irons | duplicity knows the difference between triple and double replicated S3 space? damn... | [16:49] |
| mercutio | but even if with however much they invest in storage it seemed strange there would be those I/O issues.
i suppose that could be their way to encourage people to spend more | [16:50] |
| the more i read about amazon the more confused i am | [17:01] | |
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| ntt has confusing names for their locations
i was trying to figure out where lsanca was apparently it's los angeles, north california? where sydnau is sydney, australia, and osakjp is osaka, japan so i thought it might be canada or such :) oh maybe n is north america not north california that makes more sense :) | [17:23] | |
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| JC_Denton | probably a question for up_the_irons, but does arp have a managed storage product? | [18:41] |
| mercutio | what is managed storage? | [18:54] |
| JC_Denton | i guess that's a poor term on my part. i'm really looking for something zfs backed that i can mount via nfs/cifs, etc. | [18:57] |
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| mnathani_ | JC_Denton: what zfs feature are you looking for that a standard raid file server would not have? | [19:43] |
| mercutio | JC_Denton: so nfs/cifs/iscsi storage? | [19:49] |
| mnathani_ | how is cifs different from samba? | [19:50] |
| mercutio | do you mean with snapshots etc, or just with checksumming etc?
mnathani_: samba is an implementation of cifs it's like kleenex vs tissues | [19:50] |
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| mnathani_ | anyone know of a service that will monitor a nameserver for changes and send an email alert once the nameserver changes? | [20:12] |
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| JC_Denton | mercutio: yeah
checksumming, snapshotting i mean i could do sshfs with rsync.net or someone similar since they're zfs backed, but the latency would probably be painful | [20:30] |
| mnathani_ | would the cost per gb be a lot more than the current backup product?
considering the management overhead etc | [20:33] |
| JC_Denton | JC_Denton thumps head
i really need to read the support kb a bit i guess my curiosity is are those checksummed FSes | [20:34] |
| mercutio | JC_Denton: well the idea is interesting, but i don't know what the security implications of having public cifs/nfs/etc are.
i'm kind of a fan of nfs+zfs you can do exposed snapdir and be able to see files inside individual snapshots so it's pretty seemless | [20:48] |
| JC_Denton | tunneling it might solve the security issue | [20:49] |
| mercutio | i was more thinking that cifs, nfs etc may have security ramifications of elevating privileges or such.
maybe it's not so bad these days in sunos times, portmap, nfs etc were quite vulnerable hah so now days i find portmap can be used for ddos amplification attacks. | [20:50] |
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| mnathani_ | updating windows 10 in a VMware Virtual Machine - signed up for the insider program, so I should get the linux addon feature | [21:48] |
| up_the_irons | JC_Denton: mercutio : i think I'm confused as to what "managed storage" is also ;) | [21:53] |
| JC_Denton | bad terminology on my part ;)
what file system does the backup product use? | [21:54] |
| up_the_irons | just straight linux, probably ext3
Are you looking for something where you can 'zfs send' snapshots and stuff? Like, a zfs-based storage / backup solution? | [22:01] |
| JC_Denton | i'm mostly after the checksumming | [22:09] |
| mercutio | from that point of view you could use zfs locally though? | [22:13] |
| JC_Denton | i could, but i didn
^'t setup that way :( | [22:13] |
| mercutio | heh
what OS are you using? | [22:14] |
| JC_Denton | kind of committed at this point
debian, ext4 | [22:14] |
| mercutio | yeah on linux zfs root is a bit more iffy
you could get another drive and stick zfs on it? | [22:15] |
| JC_Denton | i could, i suppose
not sure my metal machine could hold another drive, though | [22:16] |
| mercutio | ahh this is on metal | [22:16] |
| JC_Denton | yeah
right now i run my backups over rsnapshot to a ZFS NAS i have at home | [22:16] |
| mercutio | that is an extra interesting point in a way | [22:17] |
| JC_Denton | but my home bandwidth sucks obviously
how so? | [22:17] |
| mercutio | well shared storage would definitely be nifty for vm's to be able to read the same data from different vm's, but on metal machines if you have 2 ssd's or such, it would actually be rather useful to have some bulk storage etc.
and for bulk storage you may not even use it that much and in metal it means having an extra spinning disk, then at least one more for if there's hard-disk failure etc. | [22:18] |
| JC_Denton | yeah, i've got two ssds in my metal right now, i've got a root partition on the one disk and then spread across the rest in a LVM configuration
i've got VMs then using LVs right off that setup under KVM | [22:19] |
| mercutio | did you want space just for backups, or would you rather be able to run vm's on the remote space?
VMs | [22:20] |
| JC_Denton | just backups | [22:21] |
| mercutio | ahh ok | [22:21] |
| JC_Denton | maybe something live with sshfs, nothing too exciting | [22:21] |
| mercutio | well md5/sha256 should work ok to know if you are not getting corrupt data. | [22:23] |
| JC_Denton | yeah, i've thought about using aide to do the monitoring | [22:24] |
| mercutio | in some ways i think using iscsi to somewhere would make the most sense | [22:28] |
| JC_Denton | yeah, most likely | [22:28] |
| mercutio | then running zfs on top of that | [22:28] |
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| mnathani_ | hmm, I dont see the latest windows insider update
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dB0igTfhfg | [22:54] |
| BryceBot | YouTube video: "Build 2016 - Running Bash on Ubuntu on Windows!" by DotNet World | [22:58] |
| mercutio | i see it mnathani_
are you on fast path or slow path or what? | [23:06] |
| mnathani_ | I set it to fast
but might take a while, as I just set it | [23:07] |
| mercutio | it doesn't always update instantly | [23:07] |
| mnathani_ | I wonder if there is a way to sideload it | [23:07] |
| mercutio | you want build 14316
actually i only see 14295 i'm on slow path and defer upgrades but a notification came up about it my windows 10 ois on 11102 | [23:07] |
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