#arpnetworks 2010-02-15,Mon

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WhoWhatWhen
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RedDemon1970hello
can somebody help me, i'm trying to install openbsd..but i cant conect to my host for downloading true ftp 		[08:22]
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toddfRedDemon1970: have you mailed a pubkey to support@arpnetworks.com ?
ssh pubkey 		[09:11]
RedDemon1970a what. a pubkey? [09:12]
DaCa:) [09:12]
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toddfthen you can hit the ssh console to reset your vm or hit serial console etc [09:14]
RedDemon1970ah k [09:15]
toddfyou also should be able to see the settings on your portal to hit the vnc port for your vm as well [09:16]
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RedDemon1970hello [12:06]
bob^^hi [12:07]
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ChanServ sets mode: +o ballen 		[19:29]
ballenping [19:29]
mike-burnsPong. [19:30]
ballenhows it going [19:30]
mike-burnsNot bad; excited to go back to work after the long weekend. [19:31]
ballenyea same
minus the excited 		[19:31]
mike-burnsAh, that's too bad. [19:31]
ballennot lamenting it or anything [19:32]
mike-burnsI do wish I could skip work and hack on this GNOME applet I've been writing, but programming in Ruby all day is A+ too. [19:32]
ballenheh right on
I need to hack through a bunch of crap perl that isn't mine to take care of
just so my users can be migrated off some old servers 		[19:32]
mike-burnsWhen I wrote Perl we treated it as a "write-only language"; we'd never modify it but instead re-write anything instead. [19:34]
ballenheh [19:34]
mike-burns"Oh, there's a bug somewhere in foo.pl? Let's re-write it!" [19:34]
ballenyea good plan [19:35]
mike-burnsYeah well the company went out of business. [19:35]
ballendon't have the time, nor the biology background to do that with these
lmao 		[19:35]
mike-burnsAh, Perl is super popular in bioinfomatics, etc. I remember that during my last year as a Perl hacker. [19:36]
ballenyea, the problem is
you have these scientist
that do the programming
they've only taken minimum programming classes if any
or are self-taught 		[19:36]
mike-burnsHeh, the classic problem. [19:36]
ballenas such... in this case, their scripts are un-portable as hell [19:37]
mike-burnsI've taken care to teach my engineer girlfriend decent programming skills for when she sometimes needs to write the MATLAB or whatever script. [19:37]
ballenand of course the one guy that could fix it, doesn't have time because hes a team lead and doing SCIENCE [19:37]
jeevi wish i could code. [19:37]
mike-burnsmike-burns pictures SCIENCE as green liquids in tubes being poured into each other. [19:38]
ballenusually not green
in our case
rather little samples of DNA or rDNA
that you put in some machine that reads said DNS or rDNA
DNA*
the overall issue being said machines only read a certain amount of pairs of chromosomes 		[19:38]
mike-burnsIt still seems magical to me, after 10 years of programming, that software can read from weird hardware. Like the Perl that reads DNA, or the MATLAB that reads lasers. [19:40]
ballenyea its pretty interesting
perl and DNA is almost all string manipulation 		[19:40]
mike-burnsYeah, that's also crazy to me. [19:41]
ballenand pattern recognition [19:41]
mike-burnsI suppose it makes total sense to use Perl for that, but I don't know which came first: using Perl for that, or it making total sense. [19:41]
ballenusing Perl [19:41]
mike-burnsHeh, noted. [19:41]
ballenI know alot of people are using Python these days for this [19:42]
mike-burnsOh yeah, there's some book out there that teaches DNA processing and coindicentally teaches Python along the way. [19:42]
ballenyea
then there is a number of utilities that produce some sort of data from the reads 		[19:42]
mike-burnsYeah those are crucial. [19:43]
ballenthen using all of that automated data creation, a person stands at the very end of the "pipeline"
and tries to put it all together
into a full genome
and the person is the biggest bottleneck
but the "finishing" is still a bit of a black magic 		[19:43]
mike-burnsYeah, still needs actual intelligence in there somewhere. [19:45]
ballenyea and the weird thing is we aren't putting a lot of dev time into automating that persons work
we just add more people 		[19:46]
mike-burnsWell automating that person's work would leave that person without a job.
They certainly don't want that. 		[19:46]
ballentrue
can't imagine that job is very rewarding
just assembly factory work 		[19:47]
mike-burnsA bunch of years back I had to build (in Perl) a communication layer between the mainframe and the Web server software used by a major college, because if we moved to Postgres the mainframe guy would be out of a job. [19:47]
ballenshould be doing SCIENCE
hah 		[19:47]
mike-burnsProgramming is funny when politics gets involved. [19:48]
ballenindeed [19:48]
mike-burnsDebian can't ship OpenSSL because of politics, and this strikes me as strange every time I re-discover it. [19:49]
ballenheh which politics is that?
them breaking it a while back? 		[19:50]
mike-burns4-clause BSD license. [19:50]
ballenah
yea 		[19:50]
mike-burnsYou have to add the non-free repo to get both OpenSSL and unrar. [19:51]
ballenheh thats silly [19:51]
mike-burnsTo us BSD guys, it certainly is. [19:51]
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ballenthats why I'm a fan of the BSD's
love that we can have ZFS 		[19:51]
mike-burnsThere's no doubt that the BSDs are better OSes, for both political and technical reasons. [19:52]
ballenindeed, agreed [19:52]
mike-burnsBut, Linux has features, which is one thing *BSD is missing. It's why I now run Debian on my laptop.
Sad days. 		[19:52]
ballensad face [19:52]
visininlinux is still killing it on the multimedia tip :( [19:52]
mike-burnsExactly. [19:52]
ballenyes, and the damn bio community when dev'ing open source apps will write to linux not all platforms
some will work on Solaris
depending where the work comes out of 		[19:53]
visinini'm honestly considering a switch from linux to a dual-boot win7/freebsd or win7/openbsd setup though [19:53]
ballenthere ya go [19:53]
visininbecause it's not like linux does multimedia particularly well [19:53]
ballenI do Mac OS X with a Win 7 or Win XP VM [19:54]
visininit's just passable
yeah man 		[19:54]
ballenat least for my desktop/laptops [19:54]
mike-burnsvisinin: I'd recommend FreeBSD as your introductory BSD. Not that OpenBSD is bad, but FreeBSD has more desktop features. [19:54]
visininmike-burns: noted. i've run openbsd before, in fact, and got my feet pretty wet. i'm still a bit of a freebsd noob.
but ULE looks crazy 		[19:54]
ballenthe new scheduler ? [19:54]
visininyeah [19:55]
ballenwhy crazy [19:55]
visininwell, i've been hearing that it does a particularly good job for desktop workloads
linux's CFS has had a lot of problems in that domain 		[19:55]
ballenah yea
seems to work pretty good 		[19:55]
visininso many that ck wrote *another* new scheduler recently, BFS
oh, while i'm talking about it
would you recommend i install win7 or freebsd first?
i'm thinking freebsd 		[19:55]
ballenI know I'm running a MySQL instance for a Zabbix monitoring service (also running on the same server) doing roughly 90-100 writes a sec
at like .1 load 		[19:56]
mike-burnsvisinin: For dual-boot, typically you install Windows first, then the other OSes. [19:56]
ballenyea [19:57]
visiningotcha, thanks [19:57]
oincnoone talked about NetBSD [19:58]
ballenmeh [19:58]
mike-burnsWe're not academics! [19:58]
oincheh [19:59]
visinini'd like to play with netbsd [19:59]
ballenvery minimal [19:59]
visininbut not necessarily as a primary OS [19:59]
ballengood choice if you want BSD + Xen [19:59]
oincpkgsrc got my head hurting
ballen: thats why I wanted to give it a try 		[19:59]
ballenright on
I primarily use ESXi + FreeBSD 		[20:00]
oincDisk performance any good? [20:01]
ballenseems to be fine
just using local raid 5 and near line 7.2k sas drives 		[20:01]
visininoh hm
anybody know offhand how freebsd plays with ntfs? 		[20:02]
ballenhah [20:02]
visininor, alternately, how windows plays with ffs? [20:02]
ballenactually no idea
ffs == ufs btw 		[20:02]
visininufs, noted [20:02]
ballenmaybe some drivers for winders
looks like you can use Fuse in FreeBSD
and as a result ntfs-3g
http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/ports/sysutils/fusefs-ntfs/ 		[20:03]
visininwell, bless my nippers! [20:04]
mike-burnsThat's quite the expression. [20:09]
ballenindeed
mike suggestions on Ruby full-text search solutions
? 		[20:10]
mike-burnsEr, I don't know. I hear good things about Sphinx. We typically throw mySQL full text at it until we need something more. [20:13]
ballenyea
currently I have data stored in Redis
rather not have to have duplicate data
i.e. redis + Sphinx
http://github.com/nateware/redis-textsearch

looks promising 		[20:13]
mike-burnsOne of our clients uses MarkLogic, which may or may not solve your issue. (What I know of it is: pain in the ass, not worth it.) [20:14]
ballenmmk
ew XML Server
not a fan of XML 		[20:14]
mike-burnsOh that redis-textsearch looks promising, according the README. [20:15]
ballenyea
currently using http://ohm.keyvalue.org/ and Redis
not a bad combo 		[20:15]
mike-burnsNice, nice. [20:16]
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ballenhmm
its splitting up data quite a bit to search via a key/value db
will ballon data usage a lot 		[20:31]
mike-burnsFull-text search is a hard problem; not sure that it's been solved for key/value stores. [20:32]
ballenso looks like they're splitting up the phrase
for each word
they add it to an index
an index for each field, so "title", "tags" ,etc
somehow, it has to be associated with the ID of the object in the index
as thats whats being resulted 		[20:35]
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