#arpnetworks 2019-05-20,Mon

mjp2

im guessing they're trying to use the lack of installer as a barrier to entry to keep out 'noobs' or to make the install needlessly time consuming :p

mercutio

i was thinking of manjaro i think from this list

m0unds

mjp2: wouldn't surprise me, haha

mercutio

it's really not time consuming

m0unds

if you're not somebody who knows anything about linux or a cli it sure is
haha

[20:00]

mercutio

like up_the_irons probably took a bit longer because was uefi instead of bios...
and had to disable secure boot etc
but that's only really hard the first time
oh true but if you have been using linux for ages

[20:00]

mjp2

remembering all the commands or having to copy someone elses instructions by hand :/

mercutio

then none of it is terribly hard
i remember when i first used linux i struggled with tar

mjp2

ive installed it many times, its just a pain in the ass each time

mercutio

like gzip -dc blah.tar.gz tar vxf - |
is kind of complicated
and then oh shit it didn't create any directories..

m0unds

sure, but the whole "howtoforge" approach to installing linux distros is how you end up with unpatched systems on every cheap vpn host on the internet, lol

mercutio

and it's like setting up ppp on linux was complicated tooo
and you had no internet until you got ppp connected :)

m0unds

yep

mercutio

so you can't google
not that google was around then..
yeah so one of the things going for clear linux seems to do be that that stay current..

m0unds

my favorite thing was when people would go all in on linux without realizing their isa or pci modem wouldn't work under linux
cuz the chipset wasn't supported (winmodem)

[20:03]

mercutio

pci modems
isa modems gneerally worked
cos they weren't winmodems

[20:03]

m0unds

some weren't, sure

[20:03]

mercutio

yeah winmodems were terrible
but then so was dialup
also 115200 used to limit speed
but hardly anything supported higher
dialup would have been faster if modem banks supported software compression more frequently
cos back then most data was text
we're getting actually getting to the point now where gzip probably doesn't really matter

[20:04]

mjp2

"gzip -dc blah.tar.gz tar vxf - |" ?
you mean "tar zxvf blah.tar.gz" ?

mercutio

z is a gnu tar feature
and reasonably recent

mnathani

What firewall do you recommend on arch?

mercutio

ferm

mnathani

I recently tried ufw

mercutio

i use ferm on ubuntu too though
how was ufw?

m0unds

ufw is easy
i use firewall-cmd

mjp2

gzip support has been in freebsd tar for decades at least.. :D

m0unds

woo

mnathani

I like ufw, low learning curve

mercutio

i think solaris never added z :)
also bzip2 had different letters in different implementations
solaris bundled gnu tar though as gtar
it probably had z when i was using it actually, just not the bzip2 one
but dialup makes bzip2 preferable

mjp2

luckly solaris was being phased out when i started at my current job so never had to learn it :D

[20:15]

m0unds

hahaha

[20:16]

mercutio

solaris is nice in some ways

[20:16]

m0unds

it was fun in the same way stuff like aix was fun

[20:16]

mjp2

like poking your eye with a hot stick type of fun

[20:20]

m0unds

hahahaha, not that bad

[20:21]

........ (idle for 35mn)

mercutio

i find it interesting that windows is going to support full linux kernel
it seemed a long time ago that solaris would be the commerical unix to stand the test of time
but oracle...

[20:56]

mjp2

embrace.. extend..

[21:09]

mercutio

i dunno if i'd use the word embrace with solaris
err oracle

[21:14]

up_the_irons

mjp2: mercutio : I was surprised there was no installer. I suppose I just realized I've never actually installed Arch Linux before haha
but this "manual" method has taught me some cool things, so I don't mind... and I can use our server build logs verbatim, since there's no distinction between server and desktop OS
mercutio: speaking of manjaro... I saw that in the boot list. I'm not even familiar with that...
mnathani: ferm is the way to go
describing rules in a tree fashion is very convenient
rather than constant repetition

[21:25]

mercutio

have you got X configured yet?
there are a lot of little choices with arch
like whether you want xdm, gdm, lightdm etc

[21:43]

brycec

mercutio: FWIW tar on *BSD has had -z (gzip) for approximately forever. eg: (And this just happens to be oldest man page I could find) http://man.openbsd.org/OpenBSD-2.2/tar.1

[21:56]

mercutio

hmm i don't think it was in solaris 11

[21:56]

brycec

My $.02 - On Linux, I like ufw, it's stupid easy.
"ufw allow from 1.2.3.4" the end.

[21:57]

mercutio

maybe i should try ufw out
i've been using ferm forever

[21:58]

brycec

(But naturally my preference for actual, powerful, potentially complex rulesets is pf)

[21:58]

mercutio

i like pf too
although the freebsd implementation irks me
freebsd and their bloody checksum issues
freebsd pf gets upset with hardware checksumming and forwarding

[21:58]

up_the_irons

mercutio: haven't done X yet. I just got done with my first reboot. it actually worked the first time, yay! (I used a fully encrypted disk with LVM, so the config was outside of the scope of the docs)
for X, all I'll need is xmonad

mercutio

sweet yeah it's setups ilke that which having no installer simplifies

up_the_irons

yeah

mercutio

it's like it's already going to be hard may as well do what i want to do