[08:22] *** ziyourenxiang has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) [13:02] *** mnathani has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) [13:13] Ah OK, I don't use many qt apps either [13:15] I've had HiDPI screens for years and while support was definitely lacking in the beginning, I wouldn't go with anything else today. The crispness of text is totally worth it and the main apps I use -- Firefox, terminal, vim, all handle it just fine. [13:15] Even Qt apps in my experience have been fine. I've set all the knobs so that things get scaled so that could be related. [13:15] I also don't use GNOME or KDE (I use MATE) so sometimes it's a pain but I just set every option I could find to set the scale factor. [13:32] *** mnathani has joined #arpnetworks [15:39] yeah xfce4 for me [15:39] maybe I should try it again [15:39] I spent quite a lot of time trying to get it working about 4 years ago on a Surface Pro 3 [15:39] which is 2160x1440 in a rather small dimension [15:40] tried again briefly with my 1080p thinkpad a couple months, ago but didn't spend much time on it [15:41] problem is there are so many graphics frameworks [15:42] X11 / Motif, GTK2 / GTK3, Qt4 / Qt5, Java Swing, Eclipse SWT, Firefox, ... [15:54] s/graphics frameworks/windowing toolkits/ [15:54] problem is there are so many windowing toolkits [15:54] (If you want to be semantically correct) [16:28] acutally java never worked right for me with scaling on any platform [16:40] JWT is a nightmare, both to write for and to use. I'm not surprised in the least bit. And the fact that I have to have long $_JAVA_OPTIONS just to get it to work right on my desktop really puts the nail in its coffin. [16:40] _JAVA_OPTIONS=-Dawt.useSystemAAFontSettings=on -Dswing.aatext=true -Dswing.defaultlaf=com.sun.java.swing.plaf.gtk.GTKLookAndFeel [16:42] java is simply a nightmare alone [16:43] finally got my X1 -- https://www.instagram.com/p/Bxs9satJpzE/ [16:43] Instagram: "Got me a new weapon #lenovo #x1 #tech (Don't worry, Windows 10 to be erased shortly...)" by up_the_irons [16:45] going to try Arch Linux on the desktop for the very first time... [17:11] nice [17:11] *** ziyourenxiang has joined #arpnetworks [17:39] why is getting Arch Linux to boot so difficult... [17:39] (from USB thumb drive) [17:41] oh I think it's this 'Secure Boot' shit... [17:46] my god [17:46] this resolution is wicked [17:47] i feel like I seeing point 2 font on the installer console... and it's still readable! [17:47] s/I seeing/I'm seeing/ [17:47] i feel like I'm seeing point 2 font on the installer console... and it's still readable! [18:39] mercutio: where do you usually start the EFI partition? sector 0 or 2048? [18:42] the tiny efi is at sector 0 usually to 2047 [18:43] there's two efi system partitions [18:43] plus normal partition [19:01] oh I see... [19:02] I made a 100M EFI starting at 1024kB (sector 2048) [19:02] mainly cuz, that was the default heh [19:02] been following this: https://gist.github.com/mattiaslundberg/8620837 [19:02] and working so far [19:02] pacstrap is running now... [19:03] this is a good time to take a walk... [19:13] pacstrap is pretty fast [19:13] even if you don't have a ssd [19:13] i usually stick kernels in the dos efi system partition [19:13] there's a few ways to boot kernels [19:51] arch could do with a real installer, even a text based one [19:52] tbh i haven't found installing that bad [19:52] the hardest part is partitioning [19:53] but that's a struggle with any OS [19:53] like you have to figure out how you want your raid setup what file systems you want to use, layout etc [19:53] regardless of OS [19:53] it's mostly defaults that it is harder for [19:54] but yeah apparently there's some fork of arch with an installer too [19:58] antergos? [19:59] wow there are heaps [19:59] im guessing they're trying to use the lack of installer as a barrier to entry to keep out 'noobs' or to make the install needlessly time consuming :p [19:59] i was thinking of manjaro i think from this list [19:59] mjp2: wouldn't surprise me, haha [19:59] it's really not time consuming [20:00] if you're not somebody who knows anything about linux or a cli it sure is [20:00] haha [20:00] like up_the_irons probably took a bit longer because was uefi instead of bios... [20:00] and had to disable secure boot etc [20:00] but that's only really hard the first time [20:01] oh true but if you have been using linux for ages [20:01] remembering all the commands or having to copy someone elses instructions by hand :/ [20:01] then none of it is terribly hard [20:01] i remember when i first used linux i struggled with tar [20:01] ive installed it many times, its just a pain in the ass each time [20:01] like gzip -dc blah.tar.gz tar vxf - | [20:01] is kind of complicated [20:01] and then oh shit it didn't create any directories.. [20:02] sure, but the whole "howtoforge" approach to installing linux distros is how you end up with unpatched systems on every cheap vpn host on the internet, lol [20:02] and it's like setting up ppp on linux was complicated tooo [20:02] and you had no internet until you got ppp connected :) [20:02] yep [20:02] so you can't google [20:02] not that google was around then.. [20:03] yeah so one of the things going for clear linux seems to do be that that stay current.. [20:03] my favorite thing was when people would go all in on linux without realizing their isa or pci modem wouldn't work under linux [20:03] cuz the chipset wasn't supported (winmodem) [20:03] pci modems [20:03] isa modems gneerally worked [20:03] cos they weren't winmodems [20:03] some weren't, sure [20:04] yeah winmodems were terrible [20:04] but then so was dialup [20:04] also 115200 used to limit speed [20:04] but hardly anything supported higher [20:05] dialup would have been faster if modem banks supported software compression more frequently [20:05] cos back then most data was text [20:06] we're getting actually getting to the point now where gzip probably doesn't really matter [20:07] "gzip -dc blah.tar.gz tar vxf - |" ? [20:07] you mean "tar zxvf blah.tar.gz" ? [20:07] z is a gnu tar feature [20:07] and reasonably recent [20:07] What firewall do you recommend on arch? [20:07] ferm [20:07] I recently tried ufw [20:07] i use ferm on ubuntu too though [20:08] how was ufw? [20:09] ufw is easy [20:09] i use firewall-cmd [20:09] gzip support has been in freebsd tar for decades at least.. :D [20:09] woo [20:09] I like ufw, low learning curve [20:09] i think solaris never added z :) [20:10] also bzip2 had different letters in different implementations [20:10] solaris bundled gnu tar though as gtar [20:14] it probably had z when i was using it actually, just not the bzip2 one [20:14] but dialup makes bzip2 preferable [20:15] luckly solaris was being phased out when i started at my current job so never had to learn it :D [20:16] hahaha [20:16] solaris is nice in some ways [20:16] it was fun in the same way stuff like aix was fun [20:20] like poking your eye with a hot stick type of fun [20:21] hahahaha, not that bad [20:56] i find it interesting that windows is going to support full linux kernel [20:57] it seemed a long time ago that solaris would be the commerical unix to stand the test of time [20:57] but oracle... [21:09] embrace.. extend.. [21:14] i dunno if i'd use the word embrace with solaris [21:14] err oracle [21:25] mjp2: mercutio : I was surprised there was no installer. I suppose I just realized I've never actually installed Arch Linux before haha [21:26] but this "manual" method has taught me some cool things, so I don't mind... and I can use our server build logs verbatim, since there's no distinction between server and desktop OS [21:26] mercutio: speaking of manjaro... I saw that in the boot list. I'm not even familiar with that... [21:27] mnathani: ferm is the way to go [21:28] describing rules in a tree fashion is very convenient [21:29] rather than constant repetition [21:43] have you got X configured yet? [21:43] there are a lot of little choices with arch [21:43] like whether you want xdm, gdm, lightdm etc [21:56] mercutio: FWIW tar on *BSD has had -z (gzip) for approximately forever. eg: (And this just happens to be oldest man page I could find) http://man.openbsd.org/OpenBSD-2.2/tar.1 [21:56] hmm i don't think it was in solaris 11 [21:57] My $.02 - On Linux, I like ufw, it's stupid easy. [21:58] "ufw allow from 1.2.3.4" the end. [21:58] maybe i should try ufw out [21:58] i've been using ferm forever [21:58] (But naturally my preference for actual, powerful, potentially complex rulesets is pf) [21:58] i like pf too [21:59] although the freebsd implementation irks me [21:59] freebsd and their bloody checksum issues [21:59] freebsd pf gets upset with hardware checksumming and forwarding [22:08] mercutio: haven't done X yet. I just got done with my first reboot. it actually worked the first time, yay! (I used a fully encrypted disk with LVM, so the config was outside of the scope of the docs) [22:08] for X, all I'll need is xmonad [22:08] sweet yeah it's setups ilke that which having no installer simplifies [22:08] yeah [22:08] it's like it's already going to be hard may as well do what i want to do [22:10] should I do all this microcode updates on boot stuff... [22:12] probably [22:12] easier than updating bios [22:16] bbl [22:19] OK [23:29] nice [23:29] yeah I use encrypted LVM / LUKS on all of my laptops now [23:30] no noticable performance penalty either