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[17:37] <up_the_irons> sjackso: we're definitely going to be publishing a pricing table , most likely on https://www.arpnetworks.com/dedicated .  I've been debating whether it should go on a separate page, but I don't want there to be confusing as to which offering is "dedicated".  They both are, just in a different way.
[17:37] <up_the_irons> It's no longer the case that physically different boxes need to be used to actually dedicate resources to a client
[17:39] <up_the_irons> sjackso: how much RAM in those E3 systems for $50 from the budget providers?
[17:40] <up_the_irons> nathani: brycec plett : I would just use the onboard watchdog.  I haven't seen a MB in a while that didn't have that feature.
[17:40] <brycec> But does esxi support onboard watchdog devices?
[17:41] <nathani> I currently have the system tail the /var/log/syslog.log file via an ssh session to see if shows any errors before crash
[17:42] <up_the_irons> well, can esxi load regular linux kernel mods?  sorry, i don't have much experience with esxi
[17:42] <up_the_irons> here's something we have on our older systems:
[17:43] <up_the_irons> $ cat /etc/modprobe.d/watchdog.conf
[17:43] <up_the_irons> # Choose which watchdog to use and blacklist the other one
[17:43] <up_the_irons> blacklist iTCO_wdt
[17:43] <brycec> (me either, though I have vcenter access to a few...)
[17:43] <up_the_irons> options iTCO_wdt heartbeat=300 nowayout=0
[17:43] <up_the_irons> options ipmi_watchdog timeout=300 nowayout=0 action=power_cycle
[17:43] <up_the_irons> $
[17:44] <brycec> (Google turns up surprisingly few notes on configuring host watchdogs in esxi :( )
[17:44] <mercutio> brycec: that's what i was searching for :)
[17:44] <mercutio> i thought the sensible approach was google
[17:45] <mercutio> you could just stick linux/kvm on it..
[17:46] <nathani> yea
[17:46] <mercutio> but first
[17:46] <nathani> I like the click click gui proviced by VMware
[17:46] <mercutio> i would see if they can get your box to not crash
[17:46] <brycec> Man I don't know wtf is up with my Arch desktop, but it's been sporadically failing to resolve. ssh and curl just fail "Name or service not known" yet host and dig resolve just fine. And if I wait a bit, it eventually works...
[17:46] <mercutio> watchdog is a bandaid
[17:46] <mercutio> bryce: are you usin ga router for dns or your isp>?
[17:46] <mercutio> or your own name server..
[17:47] <mercutio> sometimes router dns forwarders are really terrible
[17:47] <brycec> my own forwarder
[17:47] <mercutio> ahh
[17:47] <brycec> (unbound)
[17:47] <brycec> And again, dig/host against that work just fine. It is somehow per-program that it's failing
[17:47] <mercutio> i would run tcpdump on port 53 and write it to a file
[17:47] <mercutio> if you have more than one forwarder i wonder if one is failing and it's trying too frequently to use it
[17:48] <brycec> Here's what's crazy - There's NO TRAFFIC when it fails
[17:48] * brycec blames systemd
[17:48] <mercutio> oh wow
[17:48] <mercutio> is it doing that systemd listen on port thing?
[17:48] <brycec> ?
[17:48] <mercutio> ie make systemd like inetd
[17:48] <mercutio> i only just learnt about that recently
[17:48] <brycec> Oh, the forwarder is on another host.
[17:48] <mercutio> ahh
[17:49] <mercutio> and it works fine from other hosts?
[17:49] <brycec> And when I try curl/ssh, while tcpdumping, it doesn't even try to connect
[17:49] <mercutio> ok
[17:49] <mercutio> that is random
[17:49] <mercutio> i haven't actually done an update in a while
[17:49] <mercutio> i kept finding the updates would kill my X...
[17:49] <brycec> Yeah, though I think that's irrelevant. It's this host not even trying to resolve, except for host/dig... And eventually ssh/curl will work. Makes no sense.
[17:49] <mercutio> so now i'm hoping when i update i don't hit that
[17:50] <brycec> lol
[17:50] <mercutio> i was using beta mesa i think
[17:50] <brycec> This is spanning updates, even. (about 30 days' worth)
[17:50] <mercutio> hmm
[17:50] <brycec> And Google hasn't given anything :(
[17:51] <mercutio> you haven't done anything crazy with nsswitch.conf?
[17:51] <mercutio> or resolv.conf
[17:51] <brycec> Nope. It's completely stock. (though I fiddled with it to no avail, moving resolve up higher in the hosts order.) [nsswitch.conf]
[17:52] <mercutio> wtf
[17:52] <mercutio> i thought i'd try netstat..
[17:52] <brycec> Also - While curl/ssh fail for the host I'm trying for, they resolve other hosts just fine.
[17:52] <mercutio> and google chrome listens on port 5353
[17:52] <brycec> ^ Chromecast listner
[17:52] <brycec> *listener
[17:52] <mercutio> oh
[17:52] <mercutio> i was grepping for \:53
[17:53] <mercutio> i'm using dnsmasq at home
[17:53] <mercutio> i assume you've tried setting your dns straight to your isp
[17:53] <mercutio> in case it makes any diff?
[17:54] <brycec> sonofa... It's systemd-resolved doing... something.
[17:54] <mercutio> hahaha
[17:54] <brycec> "Using degraded feature set (UDP) for DNS server" "Grace period over, resuming full feature set (UDP+EDNS0+DO+LARGE) for DNS server"
[17:54] <mercutio> i don't have systemd-resolved
[17:55] <mercutio> i didn't even know there was such a thing
[17:55] <mercutio> it's like nscd?
[17:55] <brycec> I think I know what's happening... systemd-resolved is barfing about unsigned domains.
[17:55] <brycec> https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/resolved/
[17:56] <brycec> Maybe like nscd, not sure
[17:56] <mercutio> i'm reading about resolved
[17:56] <mercutio> it seems like ncsd
[17:56] <mercutio> ncsd used to leak
[17:56] <mercutio> and do other nasty thing
[17:56] <BryceBot> That's what she said!!
[17:56] <mercutio> well leak and crash iirc
[17:56] <brycec> systemctl stop... And ssh works :)
[17:57] <mercutio> it does seem strange to not hash /etc/passwd
[17:57] <mercutio> but it doesn't seem to hurt that bad
[17:57] <brycec> (Thank you #arpnetworks for being a sounding board)
[17:58] <mercutio> i wonder when arch introduced it
[17:58] <brycec> *introduced* or *enabled* ;)
[17:58] <mercutio> made it standard
[17:58] <mercutio> i have systemd-resolve binary
[18:02] <mercutio> if you want to use systed-resolv you're meant to set resolve instead of dns in nsswitch.conf
[18:02] <brycec> I can reliably reproduce this too, at least. If I restart resolved then query it directly over 127.0.0.53 I get the same failures as curl/wget saw.
[18:03] <brycec> This is the stock nsswitch.conf on my Arch machine, note that it tries resolve first and fails completely if it fails.
[18:03] <brycec> hosts: files mymachines resolve [!UNAVAIL=return] dns myhostname
[18:03] <mercutio> ok
[18:03] <mercutio> mine is nothing like that
[18:03] <mercutio> % cat /etc/nsswitch.conf | grep ^host
[18:03] <mercutio> hosts: files dns
[18:03] <mercutio> i might have got annoyed at it or something though
[18:03] <brycec> Do you have any nsswitch.conf.pacnew or similar files?
[18:03] <mercutio> nope
[18:04] <mercutio> my nsswitch.conf is dated feb 9 2015
[18:04] <mercutio> hmm i checked another box and it has the same nsswitch.conf
[18:04] <brycec> https://git.archlinux.org/svntogit/packages.git/tree/trunk/nsswitch.conf?h=packages/filesystem
[18:05] <brycec> ^ the "filesystem" package is what installs nsswitch.conf, so that's the authoritative source
[18:05] <brycec> It was modified 5 November https://git.archlinux.org/svntogit/packages.git/commit/trunk/nsswitch.conf?h=packages/filesystem&id=f1cd9f7fb4cdf7617a1b875e14be212733f9c67a
[18:06] <mercutio> hmm
[18:06] <mercutio> but both of those have resolve
[18:06] * brycec stabs at https://bugs.archlinux.org/task/51709
[18:06] <brycec> (And now I've found others with the same issue as I :P)
[18:07] <mercutio> hosts: files dns myhostname
[18:07] <mercutio> i found something with that
[18:07] <mercutio> but nothing with resolve
[18:07] <brycec> mercutio: what version filesystem package do you have? pacman -Qi filesyste m
[18:07] <brycec> (minus typo ;)) Should be 2016.12-2...
[18:07] <mercutio> Version         : 2015.09-1
[18:07] <brycec> wtf mercutio
[18:08] <brycec> why haven't you updated in over a year?
[18:08] <mercutio> i have
[18:08] <brycec> Not that package, you haven't...
[18:08] <mercutio> there prob wasn't an update
[18:08] <mercutio> https://git.archlinux.org/svntogit/packages.git/log/?h=packages/filesystem
[18:08] <mercutio> it's more like i haven't updated in a month
[18:09] <brycec> lol I see
[18:09] <mercutio> which is still a little bad
[18:09] <brycec> So you've somehow missed the last 6 package versions because they were all in the last 5 weeks. Got it.
[18:09] <mercutio> heh
[18:10] <mercutio> hangon this is strange
[18:10] <mercutio> filesystem-2016.11-2-x86_64.pkg.tar.xz
[18:10] <mercutio> i have that downloaded
[18:11] <mercutio> but not installed.
[18:22] <brycec> Back to the topic of ESXi watchdog support (now that I can ssh to an esxi box), it does not appear there are any modules for watchdog support. SATA, network, SCSI, USB... Even one called ipmi_ipm, but nothing else it looks like, nothing watchdog.
[18:25] <mercutio> what about in dmesg?
[18:25] <mercutio> as it may be built into kernel
[18:33] <brycec> lol
[18:33] <brycec> Have you seen an esxi dmesg? It's not remotely linux-like... And given that the machine has been running quite awhile, any boot messages are long gone.
[18:33] <brycec> ~ # dmesg | head
[18:33] <brycec> 2016-12-12T16:50:37.276Z cpu4:35581)World: 14299: VC opID hostd-5d48 maps to vmkernel opID c6486b8
[18:37] <brycec> Also, the kernel is 44kb, probably not built-in
[18:38] <brycec> File: /bootbank/tboot.b00 Size: 44343
[18:39] <mercutio> oh
[18:39] <mercutio> it seemed busybox like to me
[18:46] <brycec> It's a fairly unique kernel, in my experience. Unix-like, sure, and the kernel was definitely based on Linux, but... it's not recognizable as "Linux" these days.
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[19:13] <jpalmer> up_the_irons: are you around?
[19:14] <up_the_irons> jpalmer: i am, but just about to head home
[19:15] <jpalmer> up_the_irons: you going to be online when you get home?   or should I just email you?
[19:17] <up_the_irons> jpalmer: you can just type here, or PM, and i'll get to it when I can :)  email is also OK.  If it's support related, support@ gets the fastest response.
[19:17] <up_the_irons> when i get home, i'll be with the kids until they go to bed
[19:17] <jpalmer> it's more of a billing thing, but somewhat complicated,  which is why I tried to raise you here.. so we could talk realtime.    I'll send you a PM
[19:18] <up_the_irons> ok
[19:18] <jpalmer> have a good evening.  make sure to hug those kids, and enjoy the time you get with them!
[19:19] <up_the_irons> :)
[19:19] <up_the_irons> thanks
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[21:11] <nathani> anyone use YNAB or similar budgeting apps?
[21:12] <nathani> @google YNAB
[21:12] <BryceBot> 56,900 total results returned for 'YNAB', here's 3
[21:12] <BryceBot> I'm Jesse Mecham, founder of YNAB, and this is a sleep-deprived AMA (https://www.reddit.com/r/ynab/comments/3z1zps/im_jesse_mecham_founder_of_ynab_and_this_is_a/) Jan 1, 2016 ... YNAB has a lot of really great support resources that you should probably check  out. Please wander over to some of the following links at ...
[21:12] <BryceBot> Home | You Need a Budget (https://www.youneedabudget.com/) Offers personal budget software along with a book. Includes support forums and  a blog.
[21:12] <BryceBot> YNAB Classic - Android Apps on Google Play (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.youneedabudget.ynab.app.market&hl=en) If you've never heard of YNAB and are looking to gain total control of your money  while massively reducing your financial stress, you have come to the right ...
[21:35] <jpalmer> nathani: I used to use YNAB
[21:43] <brycec> And now you no-longer NAB? :P
[22:35] <nathani> jpalmer: did you find it useful / worth the fee?