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| Who | What | When |
|---|---|---|
| ant | mercutio: (x)dcc is still used for file sharing and works great | [02:03] |
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| mercutio | hazardous: that's pretty nasty
but clever at the same time.. :) when i go to the supermarket there is a savings card that remembers/tracks everything you buy it's kind of handy as it'll tell you when things you frequently buy are on sale. but some people really don't like that level of tracking. at least it's obvious. | [15:55] |
| fIorz_ | ... except it isn't actually obvious? | [15:57] |
| mercutio | it's obvious to me? :)
i suppose it isn't necessarily obvious to everyone | [15:57] |
| staticsafe | https://patchwork.ozlabs.org/patch/671069/ that is a serious patch, damn | [15:58] |
| mercutio | seems short to me
it's a new congestion algoritham oh serious as in great not serious as in big it requires fq wow i want to try it now | [15:59] |
| staticsafe | heh | [16:00] |
| mercutio | did you try it static? | [16:00] |
| staticsafe | not yet | [16:00] |
| fIorz_ | mercutio: well, yeah, it's probably obvious to anyone in here--but I think for most people, it's not obvious at all, and in particular what the total consequences are or could be, it's rather just seen as some nice gift of the supermarket | [16:00] |
| mercutio | i played with heaps of congestion stuff years back
i found bic can sometimes be faster than cubic and i found that the new initcwnd stuff from google really helped but that 8 packets worked better than 10 sometimes and that 12 worked better than 10 sometimes 10 was always an in between amount. but i think they went too high seriously. also i found that pacing packets doesn't help nearly as much as i thought it would. in normal internet packets come in bursts, on/off. but that means recovery works better too but there's some empty space on the off there's a sysetm to send less packets in the off time which works better than trying to haev an average send speed. also waking up to send packets frequently doesn't work well with regards to timers etc.. it puts cpu load up atm linux has some serious issues with granuality with tc and the shaping actually doesn't scale nearly as well as it should because of timer issues. | [16:00] |
| staticsafe | :o | [16:05] |
| mercutio | you need really really tight timers to do shaping well | [16:05] |
| BryceBot | That's what she said!! | [16:05] |
| mercutio | like more than 1000/sec
esp if you can't have more than 2 or 3 packets in flight at once but 1000/sec with 3 packets in flight is what 3000 pps so when you want 30k+ pps per queue you start seeing the granuality needs to go up | [16:05] |
| fIorz_ | that BBR patch indeed looks nice | [16:07] |
| mercutio | hmm that's using estimated bandwidth
that doesn't work on lots of current networks :( becuase of issues like that shaping/pacing issue people will have gigabit connects rate limited to 200 megabit so traffic estimates can get confused cos rate limit is like "go over threshold, packets dropped" end site queueing is where the most dramatic improvements can happen atm i reckon i have dsl anyway, traffic estimating should work ok :) | [16:08] |
| staticsafe | i wonder how big of a problem asymmetric end-user connections are | [16:10] |
| mercutio | not at all
unless one side is too small lack of decent aqm/queues are a way bigger problem like if your connection receives 30 packets back to back will all 30 get through and what will happen to latency with google's 10 packet initcwnd thing being common now that's just 3 web responses simultaneously before even increasing window size 14600 bytes * 3 43.8K, then acceptable latency spike say you want 5 msec you'd have to have 200*43.8k/sec throughput which means 8760k/sec, so about 80 megabit so as soon as you have 8 megabit connectoin latency spikes to 50msec... which is definitely too high to my midn. so 10 packet initcwnd is too high for 8 megabit but aqm/shaping at the end point can help like fq_codel, which that algoritham relies on heh but want fq_codel at end point too | [16:10] |
| staticsafe | hm what is Mikrotik RouterOS using my default | [16:15] |
| mercutio | wifi is actuall even worse | [16:15] |
| staticsafe | never looked into it | [16:15] |
| mercutio | hardware queues
you need it before it hits you though but for outbound you can set sfq i don't think they have fq_codel yet i don't actually have any outbound aqm atm only inbound i don't really do that much uploading, and can do a bit over 30 megabit up now on 1 megabit you really need aqm though | [16:15] |
| staticsafe | only-hardware-queue leaves interface with only hw transmit descriptor ring buffer which acts as a queue in itself. Usually at least 100 packets can be queued for transmit in transmit descriptor ring buffer. Transmit descriptor ring buffer size and the amount of packets that can be queued in it varies for different types of ethernet MACs. | [16:20] |
| mercutio | what connection type do you have static | [16:29] |
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| think i'm going to test this | [16:47] | |
| staticsafe | mercutio: DOCSIS3 cable
250/10 | [16:48] |
| mercutio | yeh you mostly haev to care up probabluy | [16:50] |
| staticsafe | indeed | [16:50] |
| mercutio | you can do a 10 megabit queue on your outbound with burst
then put sfq on top of it it's probably slightly over 10 megabit so 10 megabit should work ok fq_codel would be nicer though Hunk #1 FAILED at 124. nearly applied cleanly actaually i think that's fine, it's only diag stuff i wish vultr had serial console :) a working console would be a good start | [16:50] |
| staticsafe | heh | [16:58] |
| mercutio | hard reboot fixed it...
damn vultr sucks :) | [16:59] |
| then kernel.org mirror is down
there's also a new updated vegas algorirtham now | [17:04] | |
| hmm need linux/win_minmax.h
oh i think we need all 14 of those patches hmm 16. does anyone konw an easy way to patch all 16? | [17:14] | |
| manually clickign seemed to be the easiest as i couldn't find mbox of month
# cat /proc/sys/net/ipv4/tcp_available_congestion_control cubic reno bbr cdg nv hmm it's slower than cubic for peak performance, and faster than cubic for minimum performance and on large file much more consistent, and 23 seconds vs 26 seconds | [17:31] | |
| staticsafe | how are you testing? | [17:37] |
| mercutio | with curl
from vultr sydney to dsl end point i wanted something closeish, but not too close i'm getting a 200mb file i was doing 10mb at first though the smoothness is way better with bbr like while watching the curl current speed where cubic is going up and down like a yoyo so it's 8688k/sec with bbr, and 7855k/sec with cubic that's basically 10% faster. this is with 85 megabit sync rate on vdsl i should test from further away too 19.2/18.9 to sj 16.0/15.8 to arp so yeah it looks like it should in general give some bandwidth increase even if only a couple of megabit | [17:37] |
| mnathani | is this some low level tcp/ip enhancement | [17:55] |
| mercutio | it's a new congestion control algoritham | [17:56] |
| mnathani | thought we only needed those when using legacy network gear like frame relay | [17:56] |
| mercutio | this will make the internet go faster in general | [17:57] |
| mnathani | s/algoritham/algorithm | [17:57] |
| BryceBot | <mercutio> it's a new congestion control algorithm | [17:57] |
| mercutio | but it's really wifi/3g/4g etc that are the problem areas atm | [17:57] |
| mnathani | faster is better | [17:57] |
| mercutio | as latency and bandwidth can vary dramatically over time | [17:57] |
| mnathani | is it Linux only at the moment? | [17:57] |
| mercutio | yeah
it's not even in linux main it's a series of 16 patches to apply | [17:58] |
| mnathani | Windows can implement it when it gets popular? | [17:58] |
| mercutio | you can try my kernel if you have linux :)
i'm using 4.8-rc6 as it seemed best to use current with it windows doesn't really matter it's about the tcp sender and windows shouldn't be on servers. :) | [17:58] |
| mnathani | I am on Linux ixp 4.4.0-21-generic #37-Ubuntu SMP Mon Apr 18 18:33:37 UTC 2016 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux | [17:59] |
| mercutio | https://weallsee.net/vmlinuz-4.8-rc6
it should have all the important things not in modules :) and only suitable for virtual machines | [18:00] |
| mnathani | ofcourse I should test before applying that | [18:00] |
| mercutio | ie it doesn't have heaps of hardware support for weird stuff | [18:00] |
| mnathani | to see if it improves | [18:00] |
| mercutio | nah
you can change real time echo bbr > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/tcp_congestion_control | [18:00] |
| mnathani | change kernel withough reboot? | [18:01] |
| mercutio | and echo cubic ..
yeah oh nah you can change congestion algoritham | [18:01] |
| mnathani | ahh that makes more sense | [18:01] |
| mercutio | i just have alternate kernel, you could compile yourself if you want
i can tar up the patches | [18:01] |
| mnathani | as long as it works with ubuntu I dont mind trying your kernel | [18:02] |
| mercutio | cool
yeah i'm using it with ubuntu just stick it in /boot and run update-grub | [18:02] |
| mnathani | how do I set the default kernel
or will it do that automatically | [18:03] |
| mercutio | update-grub will set the highest number first
you'll see it when it runs update-grub | [18:03] |
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| mercutio | Found linux image: /boot/vmlinuz-4.8-rc6
Found linux image: /boot/vmlinuz-4.4.0-9136-generic | [18:03] |
| mnathani | rebooting now | [18:03] |
| mercutio | like mine is like that
did it come up fine? | [18:03] |
| mnathani | dont think so
I cant ping it | [18:06] |
| mercutio | oh, weird
vnc it? | [18:06] |
| mnathani | yea
console is black | [18:06] |
| mercutio | oh hmm
i think console is normalyl black actually | [18:07] |
| mnathani | enter doesnt seem to change it
not accepting keyboard input | [18:07] |
| mercutio | serial it? :) | [18:07] |
| mnathani | doesnt the OS have to have something configured for that to work
never used serial console before | [18:08] |
| mercutio | ahh
yeh console=ttyS.. console=ttyS0, etc i wonder why it doesn't show anything on console and why network isn't working what file system are you using? | [18:08] |
| mnathani | booting again
kernel panic not syncing | [18:09] |
| mercutio | remove quiet and splash?
that could be fs loading issue | [18:10] |
| mnathani | unable to mount root fs on unknown block | [18:10] |
| mercutio | oh i think i know the issue
hangon it's the scsi modules | [18:10] |
| mnathani | I should boot into old kernel? | [18:11] |
| mercutio | hmm
if you want it has virtio-scsi gah does it say partition talbe | [18:12] |
| mnathani | I mean to load a new patched kernel you provide :-) | [18:13] |
| mercutio | like sda1, sda2 etc
well i'm not sure why it's not working atm can you show me screenshot? | [18:13] |
| mnathani | Device Boot Start End Sectors Size Id Type | [18:15] |
| mercutio | i mean when linux boots is it seeing that | [18:16] |
| mnathani | https://gist.github.com/mnathani/01a7492abc39781e5faa1fd63241d51e
I switched back to the original kernel | [18:16] |
| mercutio | oh you're using lvm
i wonder if i'm missing lvm support ok compiling again hmm i wonder if cloudflare will cache | [18:16] |
| mnathani | you could name it something different | [18:20] |
| mercutio | i disabled caching on cloudflare temp
development mode it's nearly finished compiling.. | [18:20] |
| mnathani | have you heard of bonded internet: http://itel.com/services/bonded-internet/ | [18:21] |
| mercutio | ok
new version is there md5 is a39815975d919495da9362a2173e7add | [18:21] |
| mnathani | same filename? | [18:21] |
| mercutio | nah hadn't heard of it
we're getting gigabit internet in this country anyway. | [18:21] |
| mnathani | there is a video as well
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqbnjgbtDl0 | [18:22] |
| BryceBot | YouTube video: "Double or Triple Your Internet Speed - This Method Actually Works!" by LinusTechTips | [18:22] |
| mercutio | it's kind of crazy considering we were far behind | [18:22] |
| mnathani | says you get things like static IP
and unrestricted ports etc using residential links and their service looked pretty cool to me | [18:22] |
| mercutio | mptcp is interesting from the pov of things like 4g and home internet
and going from one to the other | [18:22] |
| mnathani | same thing
http://imgur.com/a/bMpgo | [18:26] |
| mercutio | was the md5ok? | [18:27] |
| mnathani | yea
only compared the last 4 characters | [18:27] |
| mercutio | yeah i understand | [18:27] |
| BryceBot | That's what she said!! | [18:27] |
| mercutio | shoudl be fine :)
it really doesn't show much on that screen i wonder if you could show what it shows on serial and set serial? is the lvm encryped? | [18:27] |
| mnathani | can I pass a parameter from grup | [18:30] |
| mercutio | encrypted? | [18:30] |
| mnathani | dont think so | [18:30] |
| mercutio | yeah
console=ttyS0,115200 | [18:30] |
| mnathani | on which line
I have setparams ... | [18:31] |
| BryceBot | That's what she said!! | [18:31] |
| mnathani | BryceBot: no | [18:31] |
| BryceBot | Oh, okay... I'm sorry. 'I have setparams ...' | [18:31] |
| mercutio | did you login to serial console? | [18:31] |
| mnathani | there is a linux line
I am on web vnc grub bootloader | [18:31] |
| mercutio | you have to login to serial console for serial console capturing :)
like ssh to console.cust.arpnetworks.com | [18:32] |
| mnathani | where I can edit boot options | [18:32] |
| mercutio | otherwise won't be able to see it | [18:32] |
| mnathani | ok
but doesnt the ubuntu have to have that command as well? | [18:32] |
| mercutio | what do you mean?
you setill have to set in grub.. but you have to already be on serial console otherwise you miss | [18:33] |
| mnathani | grub permanent | [18:33] |
| mercutio | there's no storing of previous serial console output | [18:33] |
| mnathani | or grub one time while booting | [18:33] |
| mercutio | once you are logged onto serial console and see the boot coming up etc
you can then set console=ttyS0,115200 as advanced option to grub err to linux you can also update your grub config to always do both GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX="console=ttyS0,115200n8 console=tty0" | [18:34] |
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| mnathani | http://www.extremetech.com/computing/234881-from-this-point-forward-all-intel-and-amd-cpus-are-windows-10-only
sounds a bit odd, CPUs not supporting older operating systems | [20:03] |
| mike-burns | The phrasing seems weird. It seems more like MS is not supporting new processors on the older OSes? | [20:04] |
| BryceBot | Seriously guys, are we not doing phrasing anymore? | [20:04] |
| mike-burns | OK, it's just the headline that is oddly phrased. | [20:05] |
| mercutio | wasn't that going around ages ago | [20:06] |
| mike-burns | It's over two weeks old. | [20:06] |
| mercutio | even longer than that i was thinking
jan 16th i found osmething | [20:06] |
| mike-burns | If that's ancient, I'd hate to know what you think of software that was written before then! | [20:07] |
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| mercutio | well 8 months is quite a while
http://www.theverge.com/2016/1/16/10780876/microsoft-windows-support-policy-new-processors-skylake | [20:07] |
| BryceBot | The Verge: "Microsoft says new processors will only work with Windows 10" | [20:08] |
| mike-burns | That headline is also oddly phrased! | [20:08] |
| mercutio | heh | [20:08] |
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| trying out this new bbr algoritham, reminds me again of how far behind openbsd is
More details about BBR will be published in the ACM Queue, Vol. 14 No. 5, September-October 2016, under an article titled "BBR: Congestion-Based Congestion Control." i wonder if that's free | [20:33] | |
| mnathani | Access not allowed, your library account has expired
:-) my University access would have had it | [20:39] |
| mercutio | hmm
i don't think it's actually out yet http://queue.acm.org/issuedetail.cfm?issue=2984629 ahh it does cost how do you find performance compares mnathani ? | [20:39] |
| https://www.kiwicon.org/blue
kind of eerie | [20:56] | |
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