up_the_irons: I tend to pick bash for simple tasks. It's always installed everywhere, so I don't need to worry about it being a dependency. mike-burns: I don't have it installed on anything, so I tend not to use it. up_the_irons: i c mercutio: i don't install bash on openbsd ***: plett_ is now known as plett mhoran_: Also not installed on FreeBSD. ***: mhoran_ is now known as mhoran mercutio: i think lots of ports depend on it in freebsd? mhoran: I guess I don't have any of those ports installed. mercutio: a lot of stuff needs gmake
bloody gnu mhoran: [mhoran@friction] ~% bash
zsh: correct 'bash' to 'hash' [nyae]? n mercutio: hahaha
you don't need hash
i installed zsh on opensolaris mhoran: I also uninstall gmake every time a port installs it for build, and generally use packages so long as they don't pull X11 or something else insane. mike-burns: Yeah same. Switching to packages has helped remove any GNU dependencies. ***: qbit has quit IRC (Quit: WeeChat 1.5)
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mkb has joined #arpnetworks brycec: I've come across a number of scripts that "relied on" bash only as far as calling it in the shabang, but didn't actually utilize bash-isms, the developer just didn't know any better to use /bin/sh :( mike-burns: Or scripts with bash in the shebang but only so that they can declare functions using the GNU Bash syntax. ***: neish_ is now known as neish nathani: https://www.facebook.com/owendelong/posts/10153204974284649 up_the_irons: someone correct me if I'm wrong.. but is the "service" command in Ubuntu Trusty part of Upstart, but on Xenial, it is systemd ?
mercutio: ^^ :) mhoran: Yup.
On debian it routes to systemd somefuckinghow.
I don't even understand how Linux works anymore. mercutio: up_the_irons: it can also link to init.d i think up_the_irons: well that's not confusing , is it -: up_the_irons facepalms mercutio: systemv started the confusion
it escalated from there up_the_irons: no wonder the etcd service script on my Xenial nodes don't work, yet the scripts are using it like upstart
i swear to god i'm going to make my own linux distro mercutio: systemd isn't actually too bad to use
up_the_irons: good luck :) up_the_irons: haha
ARP Linux™ LOL mhoran: I just have to learn all new tools that are different than the ones I've been using for 20 years. up_the_irons: yeah it's so annoying mercutio: then you can learn to love to hate autoconf, automake, etc. mhoran: ... and different from the tools that I have to use on other systems. up_the_irons: and you have to re-learn them every 2 years when the whole thing changes mhoran: Yup. mercutio: i haven't found much has changed really
rc.local vs systemd is the main thing
probably lots of things i'm missing up_the_irons: mercutio: so is /etc/init still used by systemd (was Upstart) mercutio: nope
but ubuntu has lots of legacy stuff
systemd isnt' too hard mhoran: Hard isn't the point. Unnecessary change is. -: mhoran hugs FreeBSD rc.d mercutio: systemctl start ssh.service
systemctl enable ssh.service up_the_irons: mhoran: yeah unnecessary changes are totally annoying mercutio: i think that kind of way of doing things is pretty easy up_the_irons: as is over-engineering mercutio: sure it's different, and seems really confusing at first
but it's not altogether bad up_the_irons: mercutio: OK, so if I have an Upstart file in /etc/init, and I want to port it to work with systemd, where's the systemd version of /etc/init ? mhoran: I still have to manage init.d scripts from services that haven't migrated, and then know to use systemctl vs /etc/init.d when I use different distros that haven't ugraded, and then balance that with FreeBSD /etc/rc.d ... and then OS X launchctl ... mercutio: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SystemdForUpstartUsers up_the_irons: mercutio: thanks :) mercutio: /usr/lib/systemd/user i think
i use system/ though up_the_irons: ok brycec: What's wrong with /etc/systemd/{system,user} or is that not "in" Ubuntu?
I've always left /usr/lib/systemd for packaged services (sockets, timers, etc) and put my own hand-rolled in /etc/systemd/ ***: dj_goku has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) mercutio: well /etc is kind of meant to be local isn't it?
so if you want to have the units on multiple systems /usr seems to make sense ***: dj_goku has joined #arpnetworks
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erratic_ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) brycec: I'd still argue that /usr/local/* would be better-suited. But I have no idea if systemd itself uses/recognizes /usr/local for anything. mercutio: i don't think it does. but yeh /usr/local was the standard
man hier seems to suggest that /usr/local isn't supported brycec: According to systemd.unit(5) it's /{etc,run,lib}/systemd/
Plus various user-level directories.
/etc/systemd/system │ Local configuration, /run/systemd/system │ Runtime units, /lib/systemd/system │ Units of installed packages ***: erratic has joined #arpnetworks mercutio: what's /run/systemd
damn i'm behind aren't i brycec: /var/run is a symlink to /run these days
and /run is a tmpfs
(Manpage from Debian Jessie) mercutio: yeh i thought run had pid etc in it
so run having systemd units sounded strange brycec: I guess "runtime units" means temporary in this context mercutio: does anyone here pay for lwn? andol: I do brycec: HOORAY! Now that the console server is running a moderately recent OpenBSD, I can use ed25519 keys :D up_the_irons: :)