#arpnetworks 2015-10-18,Sun

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WhoWhatWhen
mercutiothere's original ion at least though. not much has changed.
but the original author went crazy and shifted to windows. 		[00:00]
mnathani_whats up with quirks-2.114
when I install something
@google quirks-2.114 		[00:02]
BryceBot35 total results returned for 'quirks-2.114', here's 3
View Contract (http://www.michigan.gov/documents/buymichiganfirst/9200164_282550_7.pdf) Jun 3, 2009 ... 53. 2.113 Retention of Records ......................................................................................... .................... 53. 2.114 Audit Resolution .
ГОСТ 2.114-95 (http://www.complexdoc.ru/lib/%D0%93%D0%9E%D0%A1%D0%A2%202.114-95) ГОСТ 2.114-95 Единая система конструкторской документации. Технические условия Unified ... The Charming Quirks of Others. 700 р. Google обновила ...
a step for evaluating constructivist approach integrated online courses (http://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/EJ944922.pdf) factor 3.561 and 10.474%, as third factor 2.273 and 6.684%, as fourth factor 2.114 and 6.218%, as fifth factor 1.543 and 4.556%. Further to this, variance ... 		[00:02]
mnathani_@google quirks openbsd [00:02]
BryceBot1,460 total results returned for 'quirks openbsd', here's 3
packages - openbsd: why quirks-1.87 was installed all of a sudden ... (http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/109340/openbsd-why-quirks-1-87-was-installed-all-of-a-sudden) Jan 14, 2014 ... I was trying to install mysql on OpenBSD; instead, somehow quirks-1.87 was installed, whereas mysql was claimed to not be found. Why?
OpenBSD ports ∴ devel/quirks (http://ports.su/devel/quirks) The quirks package allows unpredicted changes to the package system. For instance, package name changes, or stuff incorporated into base. pkg_add tests  ...
Updating all OpenBSD packages with pkg_add - Linux Audit (http://linux-audit.com/updating-all-openbsd-packages-with-pkg_add/) Feb 15, 2015 ... ... an important task. To achieve that, use pkg_add to update your installed OpenBSD packages. ... quirks-2.9 signed on 2014-07-31T22:37:55Z 		[00:02]
mnathani_If its so responsive in a VM, I can't imagine how responsive it would be on bare metal [00:05]
mercutiowell years and years back "time xterm -e pwd" was twice as fast as linux
from memory it was a fanless p133
i used to have a network cable back to back, and have an athlon in another room and run lots of stuff remotely
the only problem with openbsd back then was the disk cache only used something like 10% of ram by default for cache
but now days that's been fixed. you used to have to tweak it up
but yeah depending on the applications you use even slow cpus can be pretty fast still.
i'm guessing whatever you're using would be quick. 		[00:06]
mnathani_its an old i7 [00:12]
mercutiochrome is slow on anything though :/
bloody bloated. 		[00:12]
mnathani_its still the best one out there [00:12]
mercutioheh [00:12]
mnathani_have you tried using Firefox lately? [00:13]
mercutioyip
i use firefox for java these days 		[00:13]
mnathani_kvm over ip type stuff? [00:13]
mercutioyeh
chrome dropped java support 		[00:13]
mnathani_really
too many security vulnerabilities I guess 		[00:13]
mercutioyeah and flash [00:14]
mnathani_do you use snapchat? [00:14]
mercutiono [00:14]
mnathani_it seems to be pretty popular with the younger generations [00:14]
mercutioscary thought
i wonder if edge will come to linux 		[00:15]
mnathani_or mac
linux is too fragmented to develop for
suse, redhat, ubuntu, debian, centos etc etc 		[00:17]
mercutioi disagree
they're not that different really 		[00:18]
mnathani_libraries they ship with are different
versions 		[00:19]
mercutioyou mean versions [00:19]
mnathani_yea [00:19]
mercutioyeah that's not a big deal [00:19]
mnathani_statically link executable
>
? 		[00:19]
mercutiothat's the usual solution
skype works fine on different distros 		[00:19]
mnathani_makes for one huge binary
they have to test on each one and compile for each one 		[00:20]
mercutionot really
% ldd /usr/lib32/skype/skype | wc -l
41 		[00:20]
mnathani_can they compile once and run many times ? [00:21]
mercutiobut mostly that's things like libz.so.1 libSM.so.6 etc
which are standard
the library thing is blown out of proportion
most of the core libraries are fine to just link against.
php being compiled as module for diff versions of apache is an example where it's more complicated
but for things like X libraries it's generally not an issue 		[00:21]
up_the_ironsmercutio: thanks for the openbsd 5.8 sync [00:28]
mnathani_up_the_irons: do you have devious shell account? [00:33]
up_the_ironsi do [00:33]
mnathani_nice
I hope they approve my application once I apply
would be nice to access a box without having root access on it
does your account go back to pre ARPnetworks days? 		[00:34]
mercutiomnathani_: why haven't you applied yet? [00:40]
mrsaintmorning :) [00:41]
up_the_ironsmnathani_: no, in fact they started here :)
if my memory serves me correctly ... 		[00:42]
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mike-burnsIndeed.
I run OpenBSD on my laptop. It's great.
Re window manager: as of 6am, I now run the WM that I wrote.
boom 		[03:21]
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mercutioyou wrote a wm?
what's it like? 		[03:39]
mike-burnsIt's my fifth try, so: tedious? [03:39]
mercutioheh
is it using xlib
or that new thing
xcb 		[03:39]
mike-burnsThe first two were from scratch (using GTK), and this one is a fork of metacity (mostly gutted and re-written). [03:40]
mercutioahh
what's the goal? 		[03:40]
mike-burnsIt's really easy to get a WM working, but it's really hard to support all the fancy multimedia stuff of today.
https://bitptr.org/ - this is the goal. 		[03:40]
mercutioi've been wondering how to make urxvt flicker less, and i was curious how it's code works, and went into it a little, but that's about as close to X coding as I know about :) [03:41]
mike-burns(That page only lists things that are working; I have 10 projects in my local bitptr private repo.) [03:42]
mercutioahh
i used twm when i first started using unix. 		[03:42]
mike-burnsI like twm. It feels simple to use. [03:43]
mercutioit is
but having to hold the mouse button to use the menu sucks
i used olvwm a bit, and fvwm, and all those other ones. 		[03:43]
mike-burnsYeah -- sometimes I feel like having a full, fancy desktop with all the conveniences. [03:44]
mercutioin the end i went back to text mode :)
yeah i tried enlightenment for a while
but it was too slow 		[03:44]
mike-burnsI was using cwm until two days ago. It's not bad. [03:44]
mercutioit's not notion that brought me back to X
well ion at the time.
cos i could just have lots of terminals and virtual desktops and have it like text mode :)
yeah i heard about cwm but haven't tried it yet.
i tried to like awesome
cos it used xcb 		[03:44]
mike-burnshttp://seasonofcode.com/posts/how-x-window-managers-work-and-how-to-write-one-part-ii.html - here's a walkthrough on how to make a WM. It's in C++, but it could be done in Python or C or Ruby or whatever. [03:46]
mercutiobut not being able to manually set pane sizes etc is too annoyingf
hmm
http://www.mini-dweeb.org/~arnau/docs/dueti/project/report.pdf

so awesome documented porting from xlib to xcb. 		[03:46]
mike-burnsThat's really cool. [03:51]
mercutioand said there isn't much documentation for xcb
sigh
i didn't find much about xcb when i looked
i really would like to be able to make urxvt faster :)
but it seems to be mostly to do with the font stuff, and that programs will often output tiny blobs of data all the time.
like 'locate *' is slower than 'locate * | cat' 		[03:51]
mike-burnsInteresting. [03:53]
mercutiothere's no system calls to coalesce that stuff though that i could find [03:53]
mike-burnsPresumably it's read(2)'ing from stdout? What if it reads in larger chunks? [03:54]
mercutioread will return partial data
you can usleep(1)
or yield() on linux
which drops cpu usage a bit
i was mostly wondering if i could make it fast to not flicker though, and small amounts of data shouldn't be the cause of that
there's already intelligent scrolling etc. 		[03:54]
mike-burnsMaybe multiple buffering will solve it? Does it already double buffer? [03:56]
mercutioso in the end it didn't seem like there was any trivial improvements other than dropping cpu usage by yield or usleep(1)
i can't recall
i can't remember what it was doing for event loop even
but i figured that the simplest solution would be to have something like cat in the middle :) 		[03:56]
mike-burnsHeh. [03:57]
mercutioi kind of want something to able to record screen stuff too
i actually quite liked the idea of being able to show graphics etc in terminals too. 		[04:00]
mike-burnsI have a script on my work computer for that. I think it uses ffmpeg but I might be wrong.
Maybe you should write your own term emulator! 		[04:01]
mercutioi think it's time for a new terminal that can make use of the fact that most people want mostly text but some minimal graphics that they can use over ssh etc would be handy
yeah i want to
using xcb
but steep learning curve.
i've wanted to since bbs days tbh 		[04:01]
mike-burnsMostly VT and ANSI escape codes. [04:02]
mercutiobut then the web took off
and bbs's died :)
with bbs's i tried to make sure everything was instant.
and i played with avatar instead of ansi, and it made 0 real world difference due to modem compression.
but writing characters slowly and constantly polling for key presses slowed things down heaps.
also it was trivial to detect avatar support, but no-one seemed to do it. even though you could just request cursor position and use avatar to move the cursor and detect easily. 		[04:03]
mike-burnsThat's some fancy footwork there. [04:06]
mercutionot really
it seems obvious really, it's just no-one seemed to do it
you could also detect partial region scrolling support
i think it was like esc[2;23R or such
little r
which would bound the window for writing text to start/end position
instead it seems if people wanted to do that because support wasn't everywhere they'd just rewrite the bottom of the page
it's a pity you can't detect things like colour support these days :( 		[04:06]
mike-burnsIt's all JSON this and HTML that. [04:10]
mercutioyeah pages these days are so cluttered [04:12]
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brycecup_the_irons: what do you mean? devio.us has never been connected with ARP...
Fun fact: My UID=1611, up_the_irons' UID=3100. And yes they're assigned sequentially ;P 		[10:33]
(devio.us has always been baremetal, never virtualized, going all the way back to our start with OpenBSD 4.6) [10:42]
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JC_Dentondid anyone ever have a SDF account back in the heyday? [12:20]
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mnathaniSDF? [13:58]
mercutioa shell provider according to google
but page sayzs connection refused
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SDF_Public_Access_Unix_System 		[13:59]
BryceBotSDF Public Access Unix System :: Super Dimension Fortress (SDF, also known as freeshell.org) is a nonprofit public access UNIX shell provider on the Internet. It has been in continual operation since 1987 as a non-profit social club. The name derives from the Japanese anime series The Super Dimension Fortress Macross (the original server was originally a BBS for anime fans). Services The system currently includes NetBSD servers for regular [13:59]
JC_Denton^^ [14:12]
mercutioi didn't i just googled [14:21]
up_the_ironsbrycec: some accounts had devious email addresses. maybe I just assumed. I apologize. [14:35]
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brycecI had an SDF account once upon a time
up_the_irons: Considering that we self-host our email on our single host box... ;) Sorry to deny you that feather in your cap 		[15:38]
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up_the_ironsbrycec: it's OK! [15:56]
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mnathani_@google m:tier [18:31]
BryceBot17,600,000 total results returned for 'm:tier', here's 3
Home » M:Tier (http://www.mtier.org/) Get the most value out of your Enterprise Open Source Strategy. Customers from around the world use our expertise to turn their investments into money.
M:Tier - Stable packages and binpatches (https://stable.mtier.org/) Introduction. Keeping your installed OpenBSD packages up to date is hard and time-consuming. Nobody wants to read the mailing lists to spot security fixes ...
openup » M:Tier (https://www.mtier.org/solutions/apps/openup/) openup is a small utility for OpenBSD that can be run standalone or from cron(8) and that checks for security updates in both packages and the base system. 		[18:31]
brycecBryceBot++ [18:33]
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mercutioso do people usually use openup or set PKG_PATH for mtier? [19:29]
brycecI couldn't say. Personally, I use openup.
I also added the mtier repo (well, my mirror of it) to installpath so pkg_add always pulls the latest package. But then I use openup -c in my daily.local to notify me of updates, and openup to update. 		[19:34]
mercutiodid you subscribe to updates?
i kind of wish m:tier was official :) 		[19:38]
brycecNegatory (but I probably ought to)
https://twitter.com/SwiftOnSecurity/status/655933125382422528 		[19:42]
BryceBotTWITTER: Look everybody, I found the NANOG member https://twitter.com/0xcolby/status/655932672615706624 (Mon Oct 19 02:26:58 +0000 2015, retweeted 3 times) [19:42]
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mike-burnsWhat do you mean "official"? [23:29]
mercutioas part of base [23:29]
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