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| chrismsnz | Hi guys, I was trying to find an arp networks official position on running Tor exit nodes and thought I would ask here before emailing support | [17:43] |
| mercutio | i think it'd be considered network abuse. | [17:43] |
| chrismsnz | that is unfortunate - i'll email support for an official statement | [17:44] |
| brycec | Not tor specifically, but it's fair to assume a similar stance would be taken http://support.arpnetworks.com/kb/main/do-you-allow-irc-traffic
(I think it's been covered here in IRC before too ) | [17:47] |
| chrismsnz | heh
fair enough - their house their rules | [17:48] |
| brycec | Oh imagine that, I asked that question a couple years back http://irclogger.arpnetworks.com/irclogger_log/arpnetworks?date=2013-12-28,Sat&sel=475#l471
here was the reply chrismsnz http://irclogger.arpnetworks.com/irclogger_log/arpnetworks?date=2013-12-29,Sun&sel=2#l-2 | [17:49] |
| chrismsnz | oh i saw the question, did not see the reply
pretty ruthless on the old banhammer it seems | [17:50] |
| brycec | ARP provides a service, but will take no legal risk on you *shrug*
To be fair, that's relatively consistent among hosting providers | [17:51] |
| mercutio | chris: well it tends to invite ddos's etc.
and can hvae legal ramifications a lot of people abuse tor nodes. | [17:51] |
| up_the_irons | chrismsnz: what everyone is saying is right | [17:52] |
| mercutio | i mean it's a nice idea for anonymising, but as it happens currently it's mostly people doing illegal etc stuff. | [17:52] |
| brycec | Not to mention even the automated DMCA senders hit the exit nodes, and then someone from $host has to figure out who's responsible, or take on the legal burden of ignoring the notice. | [17:52] |
| mercutio | i tried using tor once, it was so slow | [17:53] |
| chrismsnz | mercutio: if only there were some more exit nodes :D | [17:53] |
| mercutio | chris heh | [17:53] |
| chrismsnz | well, i would take precautions to limit the amount of abuse but it is unreasonable to expect that no strangeness would ever occur | [17:53] |
| mercutio | unless someone with a lot of money is going to set about to setup lots of exit nodes on their own and encourage everyone to use it i can't see it changing. | [17:54] |
| mjp_ | seems like a really bad idea | [17:54] |
| mercutio | a few exit nodes here and there won't really fix the problem | [17:54] |
| chrismsnz | up_the_irons: thanks | [17:55] |
| up_the_irons | chrismsnz: we've had customers run exit nodes successfully, as well as VPN services, but the responsibility is really all on you. And if, for example, you get a $10 VPS and I get one complaint, it's hardly even worth it for me. | [17:55] |
| chrismsnz | up_the_irons: would the result of an abuse complaint due to tor traffic result in a nuked server or permanent ban of my account
oh it would be a $150/mo dedi | [17:55] |
| up_the_irons | it somewhat concerns me even more, since a dedi can handle a lot more exit traffic, and thus, far greater chances of illegitimate traffic. | [17:56] |
| chrismsnz | the limiting factor would be my data cap provision, i expect | [17:57] |
| up_the_irons | why not just get a $50 dedi at Hetzner, or OVH, i'm sure they don't even care ;) | [17:57] |
| mercutio | i suspect ovh is where most of them are. | [17:57] |
| chrismsnz | up_the_irons: i was pretty keen to move some personal stuff to a new provider and was looking for openbsd support | [17:58] |
| mercutio | apparently hostgator supprot exit nodes | [17:58] |
| up_the_irons | chrismsnz: I'd be uncomfortable with 10TB of tor exit traffic, to be honest | [17:58] |
| chrismsnz | as well as an exit node
up_the_irons: :O i did not expect that! | [17:58] |
| mercutio | https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki/doc/GoodBadISPs
there's a list here. | [17:59] |
| up_the_irons | chrismsnz: well, you came to the right place for openbsd support :) | [17:59] |
| chrismsnz | i hadn't checked your plans was just my budget | [17:59] |
| up_the_irons | chrismsnz: ah ok | [18:00] |
| chrismsnz | up_the_irons: yeah so basically im looking for a host but don't want all my other legit stuff burned down if someone get snooty about a mean comment left via tor and subs a complaint
i will probably keep them seperated >_< | [18:00] |
| mercutio | yeah keep 'em separated. | [18:00] |
| brycec | As Tor themselves recommend ;) | [18:01] |
| up_the_irons | chrismsnz: ya know, in general, if you want to host personal services and then also do somewhat "questionable" services, I'd recommend just use two different providers | [18:01] |
| chrismsnz | thanks guys | [18:02] |
| up_the_irons | no problem! | [18:02] |
| mercutio | oh wow you're in nz :) | [18:02] |
| chrismsnz | yessir | [18:02] |
| mercutio | well if you can get ufb, you could just run your own tor exit node from home? :) | [18:04] |
| chrismsnz | well i have 200/200 tubes | [18:06] |
| mercutio | cool. | [18:06] |
| chrismsnz | i did consider
but residential isp's probably going to be more trigger happy than the grizzled old colo owners :D | [18:06] |
| mercutio | interesting.
i'd be more concerned about legal ramifications. | [18:07] |
| chrismsnz | that too | [18:07] |
| mercutio | it's kind of crazy how fast internet in new zealand got
it was only 5 years ago that it was hard to get 10 megabit | [18:08] |
| chrismsnz | and there's no easy way to segregate the tor stuff from my home netwokr too - unlike a multi homed box out on the net | [18:08] |
| up_the_irons | chrismsnz: hey, who you callin' grizzled old colo owners ;) | [18:08] |
| mercutio | i heard snap do /29s for $5 | [18:08] |
| chrismsnz | yeah absolutely | [18:08] |
| mercutio | so you could have diff ip at least. | [18:09] |
| chrismsnz | up_the_irons: i'm abuse@ for my companies netblock... we're pentesters
i know the feels :) | [18:09] |
| up_the_irons | ;) | [18:09] |
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| jpalmer | chrismsnz: curious, what do you think about things like cybrary> | [20:34] |
| chrismsnz | jpalmer: never heard of it o_O | [20:36] |
| mnathani_ | up_the_irons: gotta love a host with values, morals, ethics RE: [20:56] <@up_the_irons> chrismsnz: I'd be uncomfortable with 10TB of tor exit traffic, to be honest | [20:37] |
| chrismsnz | hmm, is that a criticism? if so I feel it's unfairly made
(of up_the_irons, that is) | [20:41] |
| mnathani_ | chrismsnz: it was intended as a compliment
:-) | [20:47] |
| ..... (idle for 20mn) | ||
| mercutio: whats a good way to determine how many upstream ISPs my ISP is using? | [21:07] | |
| mercutio | bgp.he.net
although it still wouldn't be conclusive it'll underreport rather than overreport though what asn is your isp? | [21:07] |
| mnathani_ | Origin AS: 5645 | [21:10] |
| mercutio | eww cogent :) | [21:10] |
| mnathani_ | few mtr seem to point to level3 and hel.net
he.net cogent? | [21:10] |
| mercutio | yeah, tata, he.net, level3, cogent, tinet,
i dunno some of these seems to hvae a lot of level3 though but mostly he.net for ipv6 | [21:11] |
| mnathani_ | they dont provide ipv6 to me | [21:12] |
| mercutio | they might not be doing ipv6 to customers yet | [21:12] |
| mnathani_ | gtt also
whats a good ip hosted by cogent? | [21:12] |
| mercutio | my forward route to a random ip is via he.net from here
tinet = gtt | [21:13] |
| meingtsla | c.root-servers.net? | [21:13] |
| mercutio | i'm trying to remember
cogent has a lg www.cogentco.com ? it's not on cdn | [21:13] |
| mnathani_ | trace to this ip is the only one using cogent upstream: 38.9.52.2
from the few I tested | [21:15] |
| mercutio | that uses cogent for me
do cogent and he not peer with each other? http://bgp.he.net/AS174#_graph6 oh c.root-servers.net was cogent too weirdly for me i have level3 -> cogent for that route other cogent routes is going to cogent directly | [21:16] |
| mnathani_ | he.net and cogent do not peer IPv6. Not sure about v4 | [21:21] |
| mercutio | yeah i was looking at v6 for some reason | [21:21] |
| mnathani_ | not only do they not peer, they do not have reachability either between each other | [21:21] |
| mercutio | you sure? | [21:22] |
| mnathani_ | pretty sure
Ipv6 internet is fragmented when it comes to cogent and he.net http://www.cogentco.com/en/network/looking-glass https://lg.he.net/ quick test will show | [21:22] |
| mercutio | yeh i see
i just did the same from cogent why does dns work? :) | [21:23] |
| mnathani_ | pretty sad state of affairs
you mean the ipv6 address of c.root? | [21:23] |
| mercutio | lg.he.net
can be resolved by cogent | [21:24] |
| mnathani_ | probably v4 lookup? | [21:24] |
| mercutio | oh that'll be v4
yeh so who's fault is it? | [21:24] |
| mnathani_ | cogent wants he.net to pay for IPv6 transit | [21:25] |
| mercutio | but he.net has heaps of ipv6 | [21:25] |
| mnathani_ | he.net has a global dual stack backbone and is ready to pper
peer | [21:25] |
| mercutio | so it's cogents fault | [21:26] |
| mnathani_ | cogent wants to be an ipv6 tier1 and wants he.net not to have that same status
yea - cogents fault | [21:26] |
| mercutio | they're both tier 2 | [21:26] |
| mnathani_ | striving to be ipv6 leaders | [21:26] |
| mercutio | http://bgp.he.net/country/US | [21:28] |
| mnathani_ | too bad you cant sort by column
nevermind you can | [21:28] |
| mercutio | yeh it's sorted reasonably anyway | [21:29] |
| mnathani_ | IPv6 isnt mainstream yet, else cogent and he.net would communicate | [21:29] |
| mercutio | this sorting is hell slow | [21:29] |
| mnathani_ | over 13,000 routes vs under 3000 from cogent | [21:30] |
| mercutio | well he.net has pushed ipv6 hard for YEARS
basically as a way to get their foot in the door from what i can tell like they're not trying to make a lot of money, they're trying to make enough, and get netowrko reach and customers | [21:30] |
| mnathani_ | source code for that page is like 146,000 lines | [21:31] |
| mercutio | and so it was in their best interests to push v6 | [21:31] |
| BryceBot | That's what she said!! | [21:31] |
| mercutio | chrome came up with the wait/kill thing
i've heard that cogent and he.net are cheap if you want > 1 gigabit compared to other providers | [21:31] |
| mnathani_ | would you say you get what you pay for
in terms of quality | [21:32] |
| mercutio | well i used to hate he.net | [21:32] |
| mnathani_ | certainly for cogent | [21:32] |
| mercutio | but i haven't seen any major issues since the new york flooding
where he.net had terrible packet loss between US/EU but the thing is it was inw orld news and it wasn't unreachable, just severely degraded. i think he.net as part of a mix isn't too bad | [21:32] |
| mnathani_ | I need someone to come up with a more efficient way to manage chrome tabs | [21:33] |
| mercutio | or if you want to do cheap high bandwidth stuff
i use windows+tabs at least it gives a bit more order but yeah i struggle | [21:33] |
| mnathani_ | do you mean separate chrome windows? | [21:34] |
| mercutio | yes
as well as tabs | [21:34] |
| mnathani_ | or some kind of addon
ahh | [21:34] |
| mercutio | so you can have 8 windows with 8 tabs
and it's easier to find things cos you group things together a bit i hardly use any plugins i'm loving ublock origin though | [21:34] |
| mnathani_ | I currently have 73 tabs open
+1 for ublock origin | [21:36] |
| mercutio | did you count?
i dunno how many i have open, and i don't want to have to count them :) | [21:40] |
| mnathani_ | I installed toomanytabs | [21:40] |
| mercutio | ahh | [21:40] |
| mnathani_ | an addon that aims to manage your tabs | [21:40] |
| mercutio | i probably have more than that
i'm guessing | [21:40] |
| mnathani_ | lets you search between them, provides previews etc | [21:41] |
| mercutio | i close them every now and then
but i like being able to go bakc and see what i've been looking at | [21:41] |
| mnathani_ | I sometimes declare bankrupcy and close them all | [21:41] |
| mercutio | so i've got a window open about this he.net/cogent thing
actually i have two, one of them was more about cogent vs he.net in the end though | [21:41] |
| mnathani_ | are you a tarsnap user? | [21:42] |
| mercutio | nope
hmm i still have window open about ram :) i'm trying to decide if i should get 3x8gb of 6x4gb for my server | [21:42] |
| mnathani_ | upgradeability is nice to have | [21:43] |
| mercutio | yeh you pay for it though | [21:43] |
| mnathani_ | go from 24 to 48 in the future
is it ddr3? | [21:43] |
| mercutio | and you can in theory have 9 sticks
yeh ddr3 registered it's e5620 cpu, so it only does 1066 mhz | [21:43] |
| mnathani_ | what OS do you plan on running | [21:44] |
| mercutio | linux | [21:44] |
| mnathani_ | Xen Vms? | [21:44] |
| mercutio | nah kvm
yeah 48gb may be nice sometime http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-of-3-KTH-PL313-8G-KINGSTON-24GB-3x8GB-DDR3-REG-ECC-MEMORY-w-Heatsink-/252116820487?hash=item3ab3556207 watching this atm there's a lot of ddr2 fbdimms on ebay now | [21:45] |
| mnathani_ | do you have any bids on there yet? | [21:48] |
| mercutio | not yet
i prefer to bid late ;) on ebay lots of people bid in the last couple of seconds though | [21:48] |
| mnathani_ | I prefer buy it now sales | [21:48] |
| mercutio | yeh so do i
but it's like $90 or so that way i suppose it's not that bad i could just get 6x8 from the get go too | [21:48] |
| mnathani_ | what motherboard did you go with? | [21:53] |
| mercutio | it's hp ml330 g6
came with mbd, cpu, ram etc. for like $80 NZ | [21:53] |
| up_the_irons | mercutio: mnathani_ : bgp.he.net, as well as other ASN reporting services, tend to be really off (under report) | [21:53] |
| mercutio | up_the_irons: yeh it underreports rather than over at least. | [21:54] |
| up_the_irons | yeah | [21:54] |
| mercutio | up_the_irons: is there something better to get an idea though? | [21:54] |
| up_the_irons | mercutio: not sure | [21:54] |
| mnathani_ | fire up looking glass? | [21:54] |
| mercutio | mnathani_: you'd nede a looking glass that showed your providers routes though | [21:54] |
| up_the_irons | yeah | [21:54] |
| mercutio | once it gets to another provider you don't get to see all the providers | [21:54] |
| mnathani_ | http://pastebin.ca/3196103
that shows 3356,6453,3257,6939,174 not sure which providers those are other than level3 he.net and cogent | [22:04] |
| meingtsla | hm, that prefix is originating from savvis (3561) | [22:05] |
| mercutio | 3356 is level3 i think
6453 is tata 3257 is gtt/tinet/etc. | [22:06] |
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| brycec | lol I just noticed the SeaBIOS compile host string, mercutio ;) | [23:35] |
| mercutio | oh i have a fixed version of that actually
it just hasn't been pushed i mean it's only cosmetic. | [23:35] |
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