Hi guys, I was trying to find an arp networks official position on running Tor exit nodes and thought I would ask here before emailing support
i think it'd be considered network abuse.
that is unfortunate - i'll email support for an official statement
Not tor specifically, but it's fair to assume a similar stance would be taken http://support.arpnetworks.com/kb/main/do-you-allow-irc-traffic
(I think it's been covered here in IRC before too
)
heh
fair enough - their house their rules
Oh imagine that, I asked that question a couple years back http://irclogger.arpnetworks.com/irclogger_log/arpnetworks?date=2013-12-28,Sat&sel=475#l471
here was the reply chrismsnz http://irclogger.arpnetworks.com/irclogger_log/arpnetworks?date=2013-12-29,Sun&sel=2#l-2
oh i saw the question, did not see the reply
pretty ruthless on the old banhammer it seems
ARP provides a service, but will take no legal risk on you *shrug*
To be fair, that's relatively consistent among hosting providers
chris: well it tends to invite ddos's etc.
and can hvae legal ramifications
a lot of people abuse tor nodes.
chrismsnz: what everyone is saying is right
i mean it's a nice idea for anonymising, but as it happens currently it's mostly people doing illegal etc stuff.
Not to mention even the automated DMCA senders hit the exit nodes, and then someone from $host has to figure out who's responsible, or take on the legal burden of ignoring the notice.
i tried using tor once, it was so slow
mercutio: if only there were some more exit nodes :D
chris heh
well, i would take precautions to limit the amount of abuse but it is unreasonable to expect that no strangeness would ever occur
unless someone with a lot of money is going to set about to setup lots of exit nodes on their own and encourage everyone to use it i can't see it changing.
seems like a really bad idea
a few exit nodes here and there won't really fix the problem
up_the_irons: thanks
chrismsnz: we've had customers run exit nodes successfully, as well as VPN services, but the responsibility is really all on you.  And if, for example, you get a $10 VPS and I get one complaint, it's hardly even worth it for me.
up_the_irons: would the result of an abuse complaint due to tor traffic result in a nuked server or permanent ban of my account
oh it would be a $150/mo dedi
it somewhat concerns me even more, since a dedi can handle a lot more exit traffic, and thus, far greater chances of illegitimate traffic.
the limiting factor would be my data cap provision, i expect
why not just get a $50 dedi at Hetzner, or OVH, i'm sure they don't even care ;)
i suspect ovh is where most of them are.
up_the_irons: i was pretty keen to move some personal stuff to a new provider and was looking for openbsd support
apparently hostgator supprot exit nodes
chrismsnz: I'd be uncomfortable with 10TB of tor exit traffic, to be honest
as well as an exit node
up_the_irons: :O i did not expect that!
https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki/doc/GoodBadISPs
there's a list here.
chrismsnz: well, you came to the right place for openbsd support :)
i hadn't checked your plans was just my budget
chrismsnz: ah ok
up_the_irons: yeah so basically im looking for a host but don't want all my other legit stuff burned down if someone get snooty about a mean comment left via tor and subs a complaint
i will probably keep them seperated >_<
yeah keep 'em separated.
As Tor themselves recommend ;)
chrismsnz: ya know, in general, if you want to host personal services and then also do somewhat "questionable" services, I'd recommend just use two different providers
thanks guys
no problem!
oh wow you're in nz :)
yessir
well if you can get ufb, you could just run your own tor exit node from home? :)
well i have 200/200 tubes
cool.
i did consider
but residential isp's probably going to be more trigger happy than the grizzled old colo owners
:D
interesting.
i'd be more concerned about legal ramifications.
that too
it's kind of crazy how fast internet in new zealand got
it was only 5 years ago that it was hard to get 10 megabit
and there's no easy way to segregate the tor stuff from my home netwokr too - unlike a multi homed box out on the net
chrismsnz: hey, who you callin' grizzled old colo owners ;)
i heard snap do /29s for $5
yeah absolutely
so you could have diff ip at least.
up_the_irons: i'm abuse@ for my companies netblock... we're pentesters
i know the feels :)
;)
chrismsnz: curious,  what do you think about things like cybrary>
jpalmer: never heard of it o_O
up_the_irons: gotta love a host with values, morals, ethics RE: [20:56] <@up_the_irons> chrismsnz: I'd be uncomfortable with 10TB of tor exit traffic, to be honest
hmm, is that a criticism? if so I feel it's unfairly made
(of up_the_irons, that is)
chrismsnz: it was intended as a compliment
:-)
mercutio: whats a good way to determine how many upstream ISPs my ISP is using?
bgp.he.net
although it still wouldn't be conclusive
it'll underreport rather than overreport though
what asn is your isp?
Origin AS:           5645
eww cogent :)
few mtr seem to point to level3 and hel.net
he.net
cogent?
yeah, tata, he.net, level3, cogent, tinet,
i dunno some of these
seems to hvae a lot of level3 though
but mostly he.net for ipv6
they dont provide ipv6 to me
they might not be doing ipv6 to customers yet
gtt also
whats a good ip hosted by cogent?
my forward route to a random ip is via he.net from here
tinet = gtt
c.root-servers.net?
i'm trying to remember
cogent has a lg
www.cogentco.com ?
it's not on cdn
trace to this ip is the only one using cogent upstream: 38.9.52.2
from the few I tested
that uses cogent for me
do cogent and he not peer with each other?
http://bgp.he.net/AS174#_graph6
oh c.root-servers.net was cogent too
weirdly for me i have level3 -> cogent for that route
other cogent routes is going to cogent directly
he.net and cogent do not peer IPv6. Not sure about v4
yeah i was looking at v6 for some reason
not only do they not peer, they do not have reachability either between each other
you sure?
pretty sure
Ipv6 internet is fragmented
when it comes to cogent and he.net
http://www.cogentco.com/en/network/looking-glass
https://lg.he.net/
quick test will show
yeh i see
i just did the same
from cogent
why does dns work? :)
pretty sad state of affairs
you mean the ipv6 address of c.root?
lg.he.net
can be resolved by cogent
probably v4 lookup?
oh that'll be v4
yeh
so who's fault is it?
cogent wants he.net to pay for IPv6 transit
but he.net has heaps of ipv6
he.net has a global dual stack backbone and is ready to pper
peer
so it's cogents fault
cogent wants to be an ipv6 tier1 and wants he.net not to have that same status
yea - cogents fault
they're both tier 2
striving to be ipv6 leaders
http://bgp.he.net/country/US
too bad you cant sort by column
nevermind
you can
yeh it's sorted reasonably anyway
IPv6 isnt mainstream yet, else cogent and he.net would communicate
this sorting is hell slow
over 13,000 routes vs under 3000 from cogent
well he.net has pushed ipv6 hard for YEARS
basically as a way to get their foot in the door from what i can tell
like they're not trying to make a lot of money, they're trying to make enough, and get netowrko reach and customers
source code for that page is like 146,000 lines
and so it was in their best interests to push v6
That's what she said!!
chrome came up with the wait/kill thing
i've heard that cogent and he.net are cheap if you want > 1 gigabit
compared to other providers
would you say you get what you pay for
in terms of quality
well i used to hate he.net
certainly for cogent
but i haven't seen any major issues since the new york flooding
where he.net had terrible packet loss between US/EU
but the thing is it was inw orld news
and it wasn't unreachable, just severely degraded.
i think he.net as part of a mix isn't too bad
I need someone to come up with a more efficient way to manage chrome tabs
or if you want to do cheap high bandwidth stuff
i use windows+tabs
at least it gives a bit more order
but yeah i struggle
do you mean separate chrome windows?
yes
as well as tabs
or some kind of addon
ahh
so you can have 8 windows with 8 tabs
and it's easier to find things
cos you group things together a bit
i hardly use any plugins
i'm loving ublock origin though
I currently have 73 tabs open
+1 for ublock origin
did you count?
i dunno how many i have open, and i don't want to have to count them :)
I installed toomanytabs
ahh
an addon that aims to manage your tabs
i probably have more than that
i'm guessing
lets you search between them, provides previews etc
i close them every now and then
but i like being able to go bakc and see what i've been looking at
I sometimes declare bankrupcy and close them all
so i've got a window open about this he.net/cogent thing
actually i have two, one of them was more about cogent vs he.net in the end though
are you a tarsnap user?
nope
hmm i still have window open about ram :)
i'm trying to decide if i should get 3x8gb of 6x4gb for my server
upgradeability is nice to have
yeh you pay for it though
go from 24 to 48 in the future
is it ddr3?
and you can in theory have 9 sticks
yeh
ddr3 registered
it's e5620 cpu, so it only does 1066 mhz
what OS do you plan on running
linux
Xen Vms?
nah kvm
yeah 48gb may be nice sometime
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-of-3-KTH-PL313-8G-KINGSTON-24GB-3x8GB-DDR3-REG-ECC-MEMORY-w-Heatsink-/252116820487?hash=item3ab3556207
watching this atm
there's a lot of ddr2 fbdimms on ebay now
do you have any bids on there yet?
not yet
i prefer to bid late ;)
on ebay lots of people bid in the last couple of seconds though
I prefer buy it now sales
yeh so do i
but it's like $90 or so that way
i suppose it's not that bad
i could just get 6x8 from the get go too
what motherboard did you go with?
it's hp ml330 g6
came with mbd, cpu, ram etc.
for like $80 NZ
mercutio: mnathani_ : bgp.he.net, as well as other ASN reporting services, tend to be really off (under report)
up_the_irons: yeh it underreports rather than over at least.
yeah
up_the_irons: is there something better to get an idea though?
mercutio: not sure
fire up looking glass?
mnathani_: you'd nede a looking glass that showed your providers routes though
yeah
once it gets to another provider you don't get to see all the providers
http://pastebin.ca/3196103
that shows 3356,6453,3257,6939,174
not sure which providers those are other than level3 he.net and cogent
hm, that prefix is originating from savvis (3561)
3356 is level3 i think
6453 is tata
3257 is gtt/tinet/etc.
lol I just noticed the SeaBIOS compile host string, mercutio ;)
oh i have a fixed version of that actually
it just hasn't been pushed
i mean it's only cosmetic.