#arpnetworks 2015-10-13,Tue

chrismsnz

mercutio: if only there were some more exit nodes :D

mercutio

chris heh

chrismsnz

well, i would take precautions to limit the amount of abuse but it is unreasonable to expect that no strangeness would ever occur

mercutio

unless someone with a lot of money is going to set about to setup lots of exit nodes on their own and encourage everyone to use it i can't see it changing.

[17:54]

mjp_

seems like a really bad idea

[17:54]

mercutio

a few exit nodes here and there won't really fix the problem

[17:54]

chrismsnz

up_the_irons: thanks

[17:55]

up_the_irons

chrismsnz: we've had customers run exit nodes successfully, as well as VPN services, but the responsibility is really all on you. And if, for example, you get a $10 VPS and I get one complaint, it's hardly even worth it for me.

[17:55]

chrismsnz

up_the_irons: would the result of an abuse complaint due to tor traffic result in a nuked server or permanent ban of my account
oh it would be a $150/mo dedi

[17:55]

up_the_irons

it somewhat concerns me even more, since a dedi can handle a lot more exit traffic, and thus, far greater chances of illegitimate traffic.

[17:56]

chrismsnz

the limiting factor would be my data cap provision, i expect

[17:57]

up_the_irons

why not just get a $50 dedi at Hetzner, or OVH, i'm sure they don't even care ;)

[17:57]

mercutio

i suspect ovh is where most of them are.

[17:57]

chrismsnz

up_the_irons: i was pretty keen to move some personal stuff to a new provider and was looking for openbsd support

mercutio

apparently hostgator supprot exit nodes

up_the_irons

chrismsnz: I'd be uncomfortable with 10TB of tor exit traffic, to be honest

chrismsnz

as well as an exit node
up_the_irons: :O i did not expect that!

mercutio

https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki/doc/GoodBadISPs
there's a list here.

[17:59]

up_the_irons

chrismsnz: well, you came to the right place for openbsd support :)

[17:59]

chrismsnz

i hadn't checked your plans was just my budget

[17:59]

up_the_irons

chrismsnz: ah ok

[18:00]

chrismsnz

up_the_irons: yeah so basically im looking for a host but don't want all my other legit stuff burned down if someone get snooty about a mean comment left via tor and subs a complaint
i will probably keep them seperated >_<

[18:00]

mercutio

yeah keep 'em separated.

[18:00]

brycec

As Tor themselves recommend ;)

[18:01]

up_the_irons

chrismsnz: ya know, in general, if you want to host personal services and then also do somewhat "questionable" services, I'd recommend just use two different providers

[18:01]

chrismsnz

thanks guys

up_the_irons

no problem!

mercutio

oh wow you're in nz :)

chrismsnz

yessir

mercutio

well if you can get ufb, you could just run your own tor exit node from home? :)

[18:04]

chrismsnz

well i have 200/200 tubes

[18:06]

mercutio

cool.

[18:06]

chrismsnz

i did consider
but residential isp's probably going to be more trigger happy than the grizzled old colo owners
:D

[18:06]

mercutio

interesting.
i'd be more concerned about legal ramifications.

[18:07]

chrismsnz

that too

[18:07]

mercutio

it's kind of crazy how fast internet in new zealand got
it was only 5 years ago that it was hard to get 10 megabit

chrismsnz

and there's no easy way to segregate the tor stuff from my home netwokr too - unlike a multi homed box out on the net

up_the_irons

chrismsnz: hey, who you callin' grizzled old colo owners ;)

mercutio

i heard snap do /29s for $5

chrismsnz

yeah absolutely

mercutio

so you could have diff ip at least.

[18:09]

chrismsnz

up_the_irons: i'm abuse@ for my companies netblock... we're pentesters
i know the feels :)

[18:09]

up_the_irons

;)

[18:09]

.............................. (idle for 2h25mn)

jpalmer

chrismsnz: curious, what do you think about things like cybrary>

[20:34]

chrismsnz

jpalmer: never heard of it o_O

[20:36]

mnathani_

up_the_irons: gotta love a host with values, morals, ethics RE: [20:56] <@up_the_irons> chrismsnz: I'd be uncomfortable with 10TB of tor exit traffic, to be honest

[20:37]

chrismsnz

hmm, is that a criticism? if so I feel it's unfairly made
(of up_the_irons, that is)

[20:41]

mnathani_

chrismsnz: it was intended as a compliment
:-)

[20:47]

..... (idle for 20mn)

mercutio: whats a good way to determine how many upstream ISPs my ISP is using?

[21:07]

mercutio

bgp.he.net
although it still wouldn't be conclusive
it'll underreport rather than overreport though
what asn is your isp?

[21:07]

mnathani_

Origin AS: 5645

[21:10]

mercutio

eww cogent :)

[21:10]

mnathani_

few mtr seem to point to level3 and hel.net
he.net
cogent?

[21:10]

mercutio

yeah, tata, he.net, level3, cogent, tinet,
i dunno some of these
seems to hvae a lot of level3 though
but mostly he.net for ipv6

[21:11]

mnathani_

they dont provide ipv6 to me

[21:12]

mercutio

they might not be doing ipv6 to customers yet

[21:12]

mnathani_

gtt also
whats a good ip hosted by cogent?

[21:12]

mercutio

my forward route to a random ip is via he.net from here
tinet = gtt

[21:13]

meingtsla

c.root-servers.net?

[21:13]

mercutio

i'm trying to remember
cogent has a lg
www.cogentco.com ?
it's not on cdn

[21:13]

mnathani_

trace to this ip is the only one using cogent upstream: 38.9.52.2
from the few I tested

[21:15]

mercutio

that uses cogent for me
do cogent and he not peer with each other?
http://bgp.he.net/AS174#_graph6
oh c.root-servers.net was cogent too
weirdly for me i have level3 -> cogent for that route
other cogent routes is going to cogent directly

[21:16]

mnathani_

he.net and cogent do not peer IPv6. Not sure about v4

[21:21]

mercutio

yeah i was looking at v6 for some reason

[21:21]

mnathani_

not only do they not peer, they do not have reachability either between each other

[21:21]

mercutio

you sure?

[21:22]

mnathani_

pretty sure
Ipv6 internet is fragmented
when it comes to cogent and he.net
http://www.cogentco.com/en/network/looking-glass
https://lg.he.net/
quick test will show

[21:22]

mercutio

yeh i see
i just did the same
from cogent
why does dns work? :)

[21:23]

mnathani_

pretty sad state of affairs
you mean the ipv6 address of c.root?

[21:23]

mercutio

lg.he.net
can be resolved by cogent

[21:24]

mnathani_

probably v4 lookup?

[21:24]

mercutio

oh that'll be v4
yeh
so who's fault is it?

[21:24]

mnathani_

cogent wants he.net to pay for IPv6 transit

[21:25]

mercutio

but he.net has heaps of ipv6

[21:25]

mnathani_

he.net has a global dual stack backbone and is ready to pper
peer

[21:25]

mercutio

so it's cogents fault

mnathani_

cogent wants to be an ipv6 tier1 and wants he.net not to have that same status
yea - cogents fault

mercutio

they're both tier 2

mnathani_

striving to be ipv6 leaders

http://bgp.he.net/country/US

mercutio

[21:28]

mnathani_

too bad you cant sort by column
nevermind
you can

[21:28]

mercutio

yeh it's sorted reasonably anyway

[21:29]

mnathani_

IPv6 isnt mainstream yet, else cogent and he.net would communicate

[21:29]

mercutio

this sorting is hell slow

[21:29]

mnathani_

over 13,000 routes vs under 3000 from cogent

[21:30]

mercutio

well he.net has pushed ipv6 hard for YEARS
basically as a way to get their foot in the door from what i can tell
like they're not trying to make a lot of money, they're trying to make enough, and get netowrko reach and customers

[21:30]

mnathani_

source code for that page is like 146,000 lines

mercutio

and so it was in their best interests to push v6

BryceBot

That's what she said!!

mercutio

chrome came up with the wait/kill thing
i've heard that cogent and he.net are cheap if you want > 1 gigabit
compared to other providers

mnathani_

would you say you get what you pay for
in terms of quality

mercutio

well i used to hate he.net

mnathani_

certainly for cogent

mercutio

but i haven't seen any major issues since the new york flooding
where he.net had terrible packet loss between US/EU
but the thing is it was inw orld news
and it wasn't unreachable, just severely degraded.
i think he.net as part of a mix isn't too bad

mnathani_

I need someone to come up with a more efficient way to manage chrome tabs

[21:33]

mercutio

or if you want to do cheap high bandwidth stuff
i use windows+tabs
at least it gives a bit more order
but yeah i struggle

[21:33]

mnathani_

do you mean separate chrome windows?

mercutio

yes
as well as tabs

mnathani_

or some kind of addon
ahh

mercutio

so you can have 8 windows with 8 tabs
and it's easier to find things
cos you group things together a bit
i hardly use any plugins
i'm loving ublock origin though

mnathani_

I currently have 73 tabs open
+1 for ublock origin

[21:36]

mercutio

did you count?
i dunno how many i have open, and i don't want to have to count them :)

mnathani_

I installed toomanytabs

mercutio

ahh

mnathani_

an addon that aims to manage your tabs

mercutio

i probably have more than that
i'm guessing

mnathani_

lets you search between them, provides previews etc

mercutio

i close them every now and then
but i like being able to go bakc and see what i've been looking at

mnathani_

I sometimes declare bankrupcy and close them all

mercutio

so i've got a window open about this he.net/cogent thing
actually i have two, one of them was more about cogent vs he.net in the end though

mnathani_

are you a tarsnap user?

[21:42]

mercutio

nope
hmm i still have window open about ram :)
i'm trying to decide if i should get 3x8gb of 6x4gb for my server

[21:42]

mnathani_

upgradeability is nice to have

mercutio

yeh you pay for it though

mnathani_

go from 24 to 48 in the future
is it ddr3?

mercutio

and you can in theory have 9 sticks
yeh
ddr3 registered
it's e5620 cpu, so it only does 1066 mhz

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-of-3-KTH-PL313-8G-KINGSTON-24GB-3x8GB-DDR3-REG-ECC-MEMORY-w-Heatsink-/252116820487?hash=item3ab3556207

mnathani_

what OS do you plan on running

[21:44]

mercutio

linux

[21:44]

mnathani_

Xen Vms?

[21:44]

mercutio

nah kvm
yeah 48gb may be nice sometime

watching this atm
there's a lot of ddr2 fbdimms on ebay now

[21:45]

mnathani_

do you have any bids on there yet?

mercutio

not yet
i prefer to bid late ;)
on ebay lots of people bid in the last couple of seconds though

mnathani_

I prefer buy it now sales

mercutio

yeh so do i
but it's like $90 or so that way
i suppose it's not that bad
i could just get 6x8 from the get go too

mnathani_

what motherboard did you go with?

[21:53]

mercutio

it's hp ml330 g6
came with mbd, cpu, ram etc.
for like $80 NZ

[21:53]

up_the_irons

mercutio: mnathani_ : bgp.he.net, as well as other ASN reporting services, tend to be really off (under report)

[21:53]

mercutio

up_the_irons: yeh it underreports rather than over at least.

up_the_irons

yeah

mercutio

up_the_irons: is there something better to get an idea though?

up_the_irons

mercutio: not sure

mnathani_

fire up looking glass?

mercutio

mnathani_: you'd nede a looking glass that showed your providers routes though

up_the_irons

yeah

mercutio

once it gets to another provider you don't get to see all the providers