<!-- Some styling for better description lists --><style type='text/css'>dt { font-weight: bold;float: left;display:inline;margin-right: 1em} dd { display:block; margin-left: 2em}</style>

   mercutio: <u>kellytk</u>: no, it's new
   <br> i doubt any has been done
   <br> it's mostly interesting atm
   <br> they don't seem naieve.
   <br> but there could still be risk as with any program
   kellytk: It appears to be picking up substantial steam on GitHub
   mercutio: you know openssl must not have had any good security done too
   <br> for those long standing vulnerabilities
   <br> i'd hate to try and read the source :)
   <br> there's an old saying about peer code reviews
   kellytk: Have you worked with LibreSSL?
   mercutio: but pretty much when people are faced with lots of other peoples code they often kind of just push it through
   kellytk: https://github.com/h2o/h2o/commits/master
   mercutio: but when there's small amounts of code they analyse it to death :)
   <br> i haven't touched ssl with any of my own code
   kellytk: That's signal:noise showing itself as an important balance I think
   mercutio: openbsd of course has shifted to libressl
   kellytk: Naturally :-)
   mercutio: https://github.com/h2o/h2o/commit/2a6ea3763fe385575006fb2b0f7f76c55dd03126
   BryceBot: Github Commit: "implement casper; cache-aware server push using cookie-based cache fingerprinting by Kazuho Oku"
   mercutio: so yeah that's kind of interesting
   <br> that's the kind of thing no-one else semes to be paying much attention to
   <br> at least that i've noticed
   <br> although that stuff matters more for higher latency connections
   <br> cdns can make it less significant
   kellytk: By cookie-based cache fingerprinting would that be, for example, a cookie field set containing a hash of the content upon last request?
   mercutio: yeah
   <br> even without that it sounds like the client can abort if it already has it
   <br> for some use cases, pushing is safer than others too
   <br> does 440mb/sec for 3 hard-disk raid10 sound surprisingly quick to anyone else?
   kellytk: Sustained?  I'd say so.  I'm historically a fan of RAID10, but I'm going to try a JBOD+ZFS next.  Have you worked with ZFS mercutio?
   mercutio: well sustained for 3 seconds.
   <br> there's zfs on it too but no hdparm
   <br> zfs is raidz
   <br> / is raid 10 mdadm
   <br> it tried doign a command :)
   brycec: How do you do a 3-disk RAID10?
   twobithacker: partition each disk into two, mirror the halves so no two are on the same disk, stripe across the mirrors? :/
   ***: Seldom has joined #arpnetworks
   kellytk: The only way I'd run an odd number of disks in RAID 10 is with the odd disk being a hot spare
   brycec: But that only works starting at 5
   kellytk: Yes, I'm not speaking to the three disk comment
   brycec: :)
   kellytk: IMHO RAID 10 starts at four
   brycec: Yeah I think that's the minimum for a RAID10
   kellytk: <u>brycec</u>: Have you worked with ZFS in production?
   brycec: Yes
   <br> But I'm also stepping out to lunch. later
   kellytk: Thoughts?
   <br> Sure
   brycec: I'm 100% pro-ZFS
   kellytk: More later
   RandalSchwartz: I'm just amateur-ZFS
   -: twobithacker isn't a pro-ZFS but plays one on TV?
   kellytk: launchctl load ~/Library/LaunchAgents/varietyshow.job.plist
   RandalSchwartz: <u>launchctl</u>: not found
   kellytk: :-D
   m0unds: zfs is good stuff
   kellytk: Can hardware RAID contribute anything to a storage model already using ZFS?
   RandalSchwartz: slowness :)
   <br> not revealing that there is an underlying failure
   <br> as in, the raid will still return the right value even if some of the media has failed
   <br> yes, you can monitor that at a higher level, but it seems odd to do that.
   brycec: Oh goodness no! You should never combine hardware RAID with ZFS.
   <br> The key is that ZFS itself won't know about drive failure and won't be able to help you out at all.
   <br> <u>eg</u>: zfs resliver
   <br> Not to mention that ZFS is SO much more flexible.
   <br> FYI https://www.freebsd.org/security/advisories/FreeBSD-SA-15%3A22.openssh.asc
   RandalSchwartz: Geez.  I gotta go from p21 to p24 already?
   <br> I just upgraded sunday!
   <br> is this remote exploit?
   <br> ahh, only known users
   mercutio: <u>brycec</u>: 3 disk mdadm raid 10 just works
   <br> it stripes different parts of the disks, you get 1.5 disks worth of rdata
   <br> err data
   <br> and good read speeds and ok write speds
   brycec: <u>RandalSchwartz</u>: I thought you'd enjoy "yet another security advisory" :P
   mercutio: there's also the iret exploit byrce
   m0unds: hahaha
   brycec: I'm not trying to be a comprehensive advisory source :P It just happened to cross my desk (so to speak)
   mercutio: ahh
   brycec: so I passed it along to the biggest group of FreeBSD users I interact with.
   mercutio: it seems security issues are increasing
   <br> i don't think they are though, just people finding them
   brycec: I still can't fathom 3-disk RAID10. That's just fundamentally impossible (assuming 1 disk = 1 volume)
   <br> heh
   mercutio: <u>brycec</u>: it uses whole dsiks as far as partition tables goes
   <br> or whole partitions
   <br> but it will stripe have of the partition with half from another drive
   <br> i did it with zfs once btw :/
   <br> by doing it manually with carving up
   brycec: s/have/half
   BryceBot: &lt;mercutio&gt; but it will stripe half of the partition with half from another drive
   m0unds: <u>mercutio</u>: i think it's more people looking for and finding them
   <br> which is a Good Thing
   brycec: Apparently what mercutio is describing is actually RAID 1E. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-standard_RAID_levels#RAID_1E
   BryceBot: Non-standard RAID levels :: Although all RAID implementations differ from the specification to some extent, some companies and open-source projects have developed non-standard RAID implementations that differ substantially from the standard. Additionally, there are non-RAID drive architectures, providing configurations of multiple hard drives not referred to by RAID acronyms.      Double parity    Now part of RAID 6, double parity (sometimes know
   brycec: It's interesting.
   mercutio: yeah it's mdadm's non-standard raid1 0
   <br> err raid 10
   brycec: For a brief time in 2013, RHEL allowed you to configure it, but they removed it because it's just so bizarre and it breaks peoples' heads. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=888879
   mercutio: well it works especially well for the 3 disk case.
   <br> i use far=2, but i think you can use other ways to do it too
   <br> because in 3 disk case, it takes single disk failure like raid5, while giving better read/write/random performance
   <br> actually it shoudl be slightly reduced write speed compared to raid5, as you have to double up your writes.
   <br> also, zfsonlinux is adding large block support, i was trying it out on my server
   <br> and it seemed to be slightly quicker with 256k record size than 128k
   <br> i don't think i really want to go higher though.
   <br> linux also lets you do fancy things like raid1 over 3 hard-disks
   brycec: Is that "fancy"?
   mercutio: i don't think everythign supports it
   m0unds: sounds like something i wouldn't want
   <br> hahaha
   mercutio: i really don't know where to go with hard-disks and raid
   <br> for bulk storage, you can do raidz2, 4 disks, 2 parity
   <br> but random performance will suck
   m0unds: figure what works for the workload and use that
   mercutio: or you can do two raidz1 3 disk pools striped, but double failures on one raidz can screw you
   <br> nothing is really ideal
   m0unds: if you need solid redundancy, target that, better perf, target that
   <br> you don't go for ideal, you go for what works for the workload
   <br> if you need something that works with every possibility, go ssd raid or something
   brycec: I have a couple of RAID1+0's that I intend to move to ZFS, just not sure the most ideal zdev for it yet...
   -: brycec might just mirror all 4 drives for ultimate redundancy, since capacity is turning out to be less important than when the raid10 was setup
   mercutio: <u>m0unds</u>: well now days people want performance, and reliability, and redundancy ..
   <br> zfs ssd caching can help long time running read performance, but not really write
   brycec: s/$ and supermodels, and happiness, and money, and world peace, and free energy, and.../
   <br> dammit
   mercutio: i hope that read caching can persist over reboots soon
   <br> i imagine that 2.5" disks are going to start getting more common
   <br> and maybe that'll mean people can have more hard-disks cheaper
   <br> and lower power.
   <br> 2.5" is kind of a pita for mass storage atm, you have expensive sas disks, ssd's, and laptop hard-disks.
   <br> ssd's should displace expensive sas disks in most situations
   <br> y'never know, maybe 1tb 10k 2.5" sas disks will get cheap
   up_the_irons: there's a RAID 1E??
   mercutio: there is a raid 1e, but it's non standard, and not completely the same as mdadm raid10
   <br> there's heaps of weird kinds of raid around actually
   <br> http://serverfault.com/questions/139022/explain-mds-raid10-f2
   <br> oh it's linking to wikipedia but that shows layout for mdadm raid 10
   up_the_irons: wow
   mercutio: normally 10 on linux works better with two disks even
   <br> at least, if you want sequential performance
   <br> as raid 1 all only read from one mirror at a time
   <br> and from what i understand offset modes are meant to boost shared workloads
   ***: Seldom has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
   up_the_irons: channel poll: who would buy a dedi (or vps) if we had presence in the EU?
   mike-burns: VPS, please.
   brycec: I would not, because I have no need of an EU presence. But please don't let me skew the results unfairly.
   up_the_irons: mike-burns: roger
   <br> <u>brycec</u>: roger that
   kellytk: <u>up_the_irons</u>: I would buy a VPS
   <br> Has anyone run into an issue with Parallels when attempting to install a FreeBSD guest from .iso where no boot devices are available?
   m0unds: <u>up_the_irons</u>: I wouldn't either, have no need for EU stuff myself
   <br> i did, however, just pour myself a nice bavarian beer
   up_the_irons: <u>m0unds</u>: nice, which one?
   m0unds: ayinger celebrator
   <br> came with..a tiny horse
   <br> http://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/39/131/ this 'un
   BryceBot: Beer Advocate: "Ayinger Celebrator Doppelbock | Privatbrauerei Franz Inselkammer KG / Brauerei Aying"
   ***: mnathani_ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
   kellytk: Does anyone know why brown ales are so uncommon?
   m0unds: eh? lots of breweries do brown ales
   <br> i suppose it might depend on where you are in the world, but i've seen them at lots of breweries in the SW US
   gizmoguy: IPAs are way more popular than browns in my part of the world
   m0unds: yea, it's the dominant style in the western US nowadays
   <br> NM has its own class of western US IPA too :)
   gizmoguy: oops just re-read, I see you said uncommon not common :)
   <br> beers styles seem to go in fads
   <br> IPAs were the big thing, sours/bretted beers are now pretty popular here
   m0unds: yeah
   <br> new belgium's la terroir is a worldclass sour
   gizmoguy: do want
   m0unds: it's so good
   gizmoguy: too bad its so expensive to ship beers here :/
   m0unds: yeah
   <br> so much good stuff in CA, CO and NM
   <br> one of the WA breweries does a fantastic black ipa/cascadian ipa, easily one of the best i've ever had
   <br> called octopus ink
   <br> do any of the breweries you've been to in NZ do black IPAs? i'm not sure how common they are outside the us
   gizmoguy: Yes!
   <br> we do a West Coast IPA challenge every year here, where each NZ brewery submits an IPA to compete
   <br> this year Epic did No Agenda - http://www.ratebeer.com/beer/epic-no-agenda/349452/
   <br> hrm they call it a brown ale. I assure you its very black...
   <br> Epic also does Apocalypse which is a true black IPA, pretty tasty too - http://www.ratebeer.com/beer/epic-apocalypse-ipa/267920/
   mercutio: ipa are even in the supermarkets.
   gizmoguy: baylands Enforcer is awesome too - https://untappd.com/b/baylands-brewery-enforcer-black-ipa/387548
   <br> Black IPA / Cascadian Dark Ale
   BryceBot: That's what she said!!
   gizmoguy: <u>BryceBot</u>: oh hai
   m0unds: right on
   <br> one of our local breweries, bosque brewing, did a 4 beer ipa called "monsoon series" and the final one was a black ipa
   <br> ipa series
   gizmoguy: mmm
   <br> we have a group of local brewers who go by the name of the 4 horsemen of the hopocalypse
   <br> they do a ridiculous beer every year just cause they can
   m0unds: lol
   gizmoguy: this years was a triple IPA at 14%
   m0unds: jeeeeesus
   gizmoguy: sooo good though, they actually managed to balance all the bitterness so it was tasty
   <br> but yeah it kinda kicked your butt very quickly
   m0unds: was it super boozy?
   gizmoguy: I was pretty happen after 300mls
   <br> s/happen/happy
   BryceBot: &lt;gizmoguy&gt; I was pretty happy after 300mls
   m0unds: haha, i bet
   <br> that's wacky abv
   gizmoguy: biggest one they've done
   <br> last years was 11%
   <br> but wasn't as balanced
   mercutio: 14%?!
   m0unds: funny that they refined it w/higher abv
   <br> it's tough to nail that
   gizmoguy: I think they worked out how to get more malt in there somehow
   m0unds: alcohol content gets higher and it gets tougher to balance out the alcohol taste so it's not entering spirit territory
   gizmoguy: yeah true
   <br> was drinking some mikeller the other week though
   <br> black horizon.
   <br> I didn't know what happened to my taste buds after that one
   m0unds: man, i wish we still got mikeller here. the distributor who used to bring it here stopped carrying their whole line
   gizmoguy: wait no it wasn't that one
   m0unds: i loved green gold (i think that's what it was called)
   gizmoguy: ah it was just the mikerller black - http://www.ratebeer.com/beer/mikkeller-40657--black-tequila-speyside-edition/178448/
   <br> 18.8%
   m0unds: whaaaaat
   <br> hahaha
   gizmoguy: tequila/speyside infused
   <br> and yes it was very much hot alcholo on the palate
   mercutio: i'd rather 7% :/
   m0unds: wow, crazy
   gizmoguy: if you can get a hold of any of hte mikkeller blacks they are so tasty
   mercutio: so tasty that you want another? and another?
   m0unds: i haven't seen it in a long time, probably 4-5 yrs
   -: gizmoguy feeling lucky
   BryceBot: That's what she said!!
   m0unds: i'll make a reminder to look at liquor stores when i go up to CO in october, since they get tons of stuff we don't
   <br> we did a sort of beer vacation up in durango, co during july
   <br> lots of good breweries within walking distance of each other
   mercutio: so when drinking these high alcohol % beers how many do you normally have?
   gizmoguy: <u>mercutio</u>: you usually have tasters
   mercutio: do you just drink one or two then have normal beer?
   gizmoguy: ~130ml
   mercutio: oh
   <br> OH
   <br> i thought it'd be like 330ml, or 500ml.
   gizmoguy: make more sense? :)
   m0unds: hahahaha
   gizmoguy: the bottles are
   <br> but when we do it, we split a bottle between 6 or so
   mercutio: ok that's a bit different
   gizmoguy: since the bottles are usually $50 a bottle or so
   mercutio: ahh
   m0unds: i'll occasionally have a single 650ml bottle of a 10-12% (usually stone russian imperial stout or similar) and that's it
   <br> jeez
   <br> pricey
   gizmoguy: yeah unfortunately we pay a high price to get good beer here :(
   mercutio: @exch 50 nzd to usd
   m0unds: BOOOO
   BryceBot: 50 NZD -&gt; 32.482149434778 USD (as of Tue, 25 Aug 2015 20:00:08 -0700)
   gizmoguy: there's a really good Wellington importer
   mercutio: we pay heaps of taxes on alcohol too
   m0unds: need to arrange airships or drones or something
   gizmoguy: but they're almost too good, they buy refrigerated shipping all the way from the USA to NZ
   <br> which costs a bit
   m0unds: wow, that's awesome
   gizmoguy: yeah the quality is amazing
   BryceBot: That's what she said!!
   gizmoguy: the price not so much
   <br> lol BryceBot
   mercutio: heh
   <br> and there i go buying cheap beer :)
   gizmoguy: http://beerwithoutborders.co.nz/
   m0unds: the imports we get from EU end up being ~$15-20 for a 650ml bottle
   <br> local stuff at the brewery tends to be $3-6/pint
   <br> depending on how fancy it is
   mercutio: http://www.cultbeerstore.co.nz/collections/ipa/products/ballast-point-big-eye-ipa-1
   <br> that seems more affordable :/
   m0unds: ballast point stuff is great
   <br> their sculpin ipa is amazingly good
   mercutio: and 7% is more reasonable
   m0unds: i'm a big fan of their sculpin and grapefruit sculpin
   gizmoguy: &lt;3 sculpin
   mercutio: probably expensive shipping
   m0unds: https://goo.gl/photos/69mZkLsoT3jTeD1r9
   BryceBot: https://goo.gl/photos/69mZkLsoT3jTeD1r9 -&gt; https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipOptrg_b2Ug7ruW-FqYOuVoHrirKWCA0OlCejGDoyWfDoYwABO5TFqYYWH7VSSzYw?key=dnFTSElXVnJEeGM1SFRXTk1PS25Sa1YzVmVHdlRR
   mercutio: $6 shipping i suppose not too bad
   m0unds: green flash is good too (looking at the US offerings on that site)
   mercutio: i wonder if there's some sampler pack
   m0unds: wow, some of these mikkeller sours sound amazing
   mercutio: and expensive? :)
   <br> i dunno spending $18 on a single bottle of beer seems insane to me
   ***: mnathani_ has joined #arpnetworks
   mercutio: however i look at it
   m0unds: i look at it like a bottle of good wine
   <br> i can't have a lot of wines because tons of them are fined w/egg whites and i'm allergic to eggs
   mercutio: heh i buy cheap wine too :)
   m0unds: the most expensive stuff i buy is like $9 for 650ml, and that usually gets put in the beer cooler to age
   <br> like the le terroir i mentioned, i typically buy two bottles each release, drink one and cellar the other til the next year's release
   mercutio: well that mikkeller sour stuff was $18 for 355 ml
   <br> $9 for 650ml doesn't seem so bad.
   m0unds: it helps that i'm not thousands of km from new belgium :)
   mercutio: could do
   <br> but uk is cheaper for shipping than us often
   <br> for some strange reason
   m0unds: huh
   mercutio: for normal postal mail stuff
   <br> beer problem comes from sea
   <br> and could be different
   m0unds: oh, i don't think the US permits alcohol via USPS
   mercutio: more competition maybe
   <br> oh right
   m0unds: and i think you have to ship direct from a distributor or wholesaler
   <br> so fedex or ups
   mercutio: i was more meaning distance doesn't necessarily dictate cost
   m0unds: i've bought bottles of whiskey online, shipping sucks inside the us too
   <br> right
   <br> seems like it might to a degree when you can get $50 bottles of beer
   mercutio: alchol shippining within nz is cheap
   <br> normal coureirs will deliver it
   m0unds: i think i paid like $20 for overnight fedex from ca -&gt; nm
   mercutio: yeah that's a lot more distance then we have possible here :)
   <br> or is it
   m0unds: yeah
   <br> i think my state is only slightly smaller than nz
   -: m0unds consults wolframalpha
   mercutio: yeah
   <br> it's right on the other side of mexico
   <br> right?
   m0unds: NM is 85% the size of the land area of nz
   mercutio: oh hangon it's gone to nm, texas
   <br> what
   <br> you mean new mexico right
   m0unds: yes
   <br> nm is the 5th largest state in the us behind alaska, texas, california and montana
   mercutio: @conv 1436km to miles
   <br> hmm maybe that doesn't work
   m0unds: 892.3 mi
   mercutio: actually using a different city, it's the same distance as invercargill to auclkand
   <br> basically
   m0unds: .89 x distance the Proclaimers would walk, just to be the man that walks a thousand miles to fall down at your door
   <br> lol
   mercutio: i was using dunedin before
   <br> dunedin is more of a major city than invercargill
   m0unds: i think that's around the distance from where i live to LA
   <br> actually no
   <br> oh, that's direct
   <br> 789 mi
   ***: Kysade has joined #arpnetworks
   Kysade: hey anyone here?
   kellytk: Hi
   Kysade: I have a subdomain question for a vps, i understand how to add a sub domain with host file and apache, i dont understand how to make it any port other then one port at a time
   <br> i have tried using * for the port in the vhost file but it didnt work, i am using one sub domain to host a website on port 80, a game on port 25565 and an irc channel on 6676 6680 and 8070
   milki: <u>Kysade</u>: this is an apache webserver question. try #httpd
   Kysade: thank you
   milki: <u>Kysade</u>: https://wiki.apache.org/httpd/IRC
   <br> that page is confusing
   Kysade: noone is on their ill ask in like windows forums or something
   <br> thanks for helping tho milki
   milki: apache configuration is hard
   kellytk: <u>Kysade</u>: I can recommend nginx if you're interested in an alternative to Apache
   -: milki nods
   Kysade: ill look into it, thanks
   <br> configuration file doesnt even need a port set in nginx, i should convert that seems much easier
   kellytk: Is anyone automating their FreeBSD installs?
   milki: Kysade has seen the light!
   Kysade: that was so much easier, everything is working just fine
   ***: Kysade has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)