[03:29] *** milki has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) [03:52] *** nesta__ has joined #arpnetworks [03:53] *** plett has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) [03:53] *** nesta has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) [03:53] *** nesta__ is now known as nesta [03:55] *** plett has joined #arpnetworks [03:57] *** RandalSchwartz has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) [03:58] *** phlux has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) [03:58] *** tellnes has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) [04:02] *** staticsafe has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) [04:04] *** phlux has joined #arpnetworks [04:04] *** staticsafe has joined #arpnetworks [04:14] *** tellnes has joined #arpnetworks [04:33] *** arenlor has joined #arpnetworks [04:48] *** arenlor has left [05:32] *** RandalSchwartz has joined #arpnetworks [05:32] *** RandalSchwartz has quit IRC (Changing host) [05:32] *** RandalSchwartz has joined #arpnetworks [05:48] anyone seeing packet loss this morning? [05:48] anyone ever seen a packet? :) [05:57] har, har [07:38] any update on the kvr17 reboot? [10:49] *** milki has joined #arpnetworks [11:00] pjs: currently thinking that may be hitting some bug that wasn't before. [11:05] *** dj_goku has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [11:06] *** dj_goku has joined #arpnetworks [11:06] *** dj_goku has quit IRC (Changing host) [11:06] *** dj_goku has joined #arpnetworks [11:17] *** mercutio has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) [12:41] *** mercutio has joined #arpnetworks [12:47] @weather -v yyz [12:47] mnathani_: Verbose results will be PM'd to you. [13:24] @weather akl [13:24] Auckland International, New Zealand: Light Rain ☂ 55°F (13°C), Humidity: 94%, Wind: From the North at 9 MPH -- For more details including the forecast and almanac, see http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/getForecast?query=-37.00805664,174.79167175 or re-request this with: @weather -v akl [13:25] ahh, yeah, it didn't feel too bad now [13:25] but damn that humidity [13:25] For 13C and rain? High humidity really is to be expected [13:25] @weather New York City, New York [13:25] New York, NY: Overcast ☁ 82°F (28°C), Humidity: 53%, Wind: From the WSW at 3.0 MPH Gusting to 11.0 MPH -- For more details including the forecast and almanac, see http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/getForecast?query=40.746399,-73.981598 or re-request this with: @weather -v New York City, New York [13:26] Oh they're not bad today. I've seen NYC with 80%+ at temps around 30C, and that is just awwwful [13:26] it's not actually raining [13:26] it did a little earlier [13:26] yeah 30c + humidity has to suck [13:39] oh it looks like openbsd's early 5.8 release is about 20th year anniversary, and not some hackathon or such. [14:06] @weather [14:06] qbit: Not sure what you're looking for there, chief. [14:06] bah! [14:06] @weather rye, co [14:06] Rye, CO: Clear 87°F (30°C), Humidity: 20%, Wind: From the SE at 4.0 MPH Gusting to 13.0 MPH -- For more details including the forecast and almanac, see http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/getForecast?query=37.983894,-104.865448 or re-request this with: @weather -v rye, co [14:07] so am i missing anything from having weechat 1.1 instead of 1.3? [14:07] anything significant [14:07] umm, dunno [14:08] *** arenlor has joined #arpnetworks [14:08] http://weechat.org/news/89/20150816-Version-1.3/ [14:08] you're missing that [14:08] up_the_irons: You available? [14:08] http://weechat.org/files/changelog/ChangeLog-1.3.html or that specifically, since it's a full changelog [14:09] yeah doesn't look major [14:10] RandalSchwartz, you notice that a lot lately? i used to use portaudit (until it all merged) but never got as many alerts [14:10] (pkg audit) [14:10] heh i was wondering what grody was talking about :) [14:10] some reason my buffer was still on a day ago :/ [14:10] slowly catching up [14:11] yeah, i agree. didn't see any bugs that i've encountered (like the filter thing that happened twice) [14:11] where i couldn't untoggle or retoggle my filter depending on the channel i was in. restarting weechat didn't fix it. super weird. [14:12] haha [14:12] ok it's even easier to update now [14:12] i've updated :) [14:13] you used to have to run something on command line as well i thought [14:29] *** arenlor has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) [14:53] yeah i'm not even sure what the filters thing is about [14:53] i just use basic features [15:06] Filters are the whole reason I use Weechat! specifically, smartfilters [15:09] mercutio: there is an upgrade path wherein you save your state to file (/upgrade -quit) and then relaunch the new binary [15:09] For those platforms that don't support in-place upgrades [15:10] yeah you can jut type /upgrade [15:10] oh right [15:12] *** staticsafe has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) [15:12] *** staticsafe has joined #arpnetworks [15:17] up_the_irons: any updates on that disk? [15:28] brycec: same here. otherwise, i probably would have just stuck with irssi [15:29] qbit: i can answer that for you, should be later today. [15:30] hopefully [15:31] It's been like 2 weeks now... Very disappointing. [15:31] what has? [15:31] Since qbit ordered the dedi in the first place. [15:31] oh wow [15:32] Took over a week to get the dedi, and then the disk thing... [15:32] Not up to ARP's usual standards, for sure. [15:32] (And qbit should know, he's been a longtime customer) [15:32] true story [15:32] yeah i'm not sure why provisioning took a while [16:51] damn raid resyncs take ages [16:52] even with 3tb drives they're slow, i suspect 5, 8 etc tb are going to be even worse. [17:13] brycec: we've had very bad luck with TWO batches of drives. over 50% of what we ordered has failed. [17:21] qbit: toeshred is going to the data center now and will be replacing that drive for you. [17:22] up_the_irons: thanks [17:22] qbit: np [17:23] Ouch, that's sucky [17:23] At a previous job, after a bad batch like that, I rolled out extensive burnin testing. [17:24] Shouldn't "have" to do that but whatever [17:24] (There was also a lesson learned about thermal shock to hard drives around the same time) [17:24] protip: Don't power on a hard drive from 40F. [17:24] @calc 40f to c [17:24] is that how you do it? [17:24] convert 40 °F (degrees Fahrenheit) to degrees Celsius;4.444 °C (degrees Celsius);277.59 K (kelvins);499.67 °R (degrees Rankine);3.5556 °Ré (degrees Réaumur);9.8333 °Rø (degrees Rømer);4.434 °C above triple point temperature of water (273.2 K);4.444 °C above melting point of water ice (at standard pressure) (0 °C);4.44 °C above ice point of water (273.15 K);temperature;[temperature];Thermodynamic energy E from E = kT:, ->24 meV [17:25] It was winter, the storage unit was outside, etc [17:25] hmm i would have thought a disk would be fine at that temp [17:25] brycec / up_the_irons at a previous job I had 110% of some gateway computers shit the bed over the span of a year [17:25] (Where winter = cold for us in the northern hemisphere) [17:25] yeah i can't say i've ever tried turning a hard-disk on at such low temperatures [17:25] good luck finding a data centre that low :) [17:25] mercutio: the shock of going from cold to warm in such a short span of time was *bad* [17:26] I mean, you could probably run drives at that temperature, provided you were /keeping/ them at that temp [17:26] worse than 20c to 40c? [17:26] but powering it on and letting it warm itself up... [17:26] i used to have a hard-drive that wouldn't work right until it had warmed up [17:26] brycec: yeah, mercutio and I have been talking about implementing a burn-in process [17:26] In short, yes. Google it. [17:27] learn something new every day :) [17:27] up_the_irons: there is an iso someone made for burnin / power testing [17:28] qbit: oh yeah?? [17:31] http://www.stresslinux.org/sl/ [17:31] qbit: hard-disk in particular? [17:31] or cpu etc? [17:31] full system iirc [17:31] cos i never seem to see cpu problems unless someone didn't attach heatsink properly. [17:31] it also may have been a iso I built.. hard to remember [17:31] but OpenSuSE, ewww [17:32] I made a burnin ISO for work, did simple mprime and smart self tests kinds of stuff [17:32] (not that it helps because I can't distribute it) [17:33] i like it how memtest is bundled with ubuntu etc these days [17:33] i tend to run that for a while [17:34] yeah, it's super easy to make them.. especially with deboostrap and friends [17:34] handy for power tests too [17:34] made one for oracle's facilities guy [17:34] so blame me for cloud pricing \o/ [17:34] i saw that solaris is adopting pf [17:34] but mostly blame larry [17:35] is [17:35] i keep kind of hoping solaris will die [17:35] now that oracle control it [17:35] wow. cool. pf rocks [17:35] me too [17:35] there's opensolaris [17:35] and illumos [17:35] i thought all their main engineers left. [17:35] and smartos [17:35] but there must be some left :) [17:35] all the good people left [17:35] and that [17:35] it's like the skeleton crew for mysql [17:36] i hated sun a lot less than i hate oracle :) [17:36] yeah sun seemed decent [17:36] except for the way they got possessive about java [17:36] thus leading to the openjdk [17:37] yeah they weren't perfect [17:37] but bearable :) [17:37] even before they became snorkle [17:37] oracle is unbearable :) [17:37] they were kind of innovative too [17:37] i don't really see oracle as being innovative. [17:39] maybe before rdbms was a popular thing.. but now it's just a jerk org [17:44] apparently oracle doesn't have an autoincrement column type? [17:44] neither does postgres? [17:44] postgres does [17:44] foo serial [17:44] ohh [17:44] foo int serial [17:45] it creates the required incrementor, and the default value for that [17:45] yeah, just like the standard says. [17:45] because sqlite adopted that too [17:45] it's not part of base sql anyway. [17:46] whenever Richard Hipp wonders how to interpret the SQL standard, he just asks himself "what would Postgres do?" [17:46] and reads the postgres docs :) [17:46] so sqlite is really just a postgres clone [17:46] has serial always existed in progres? [17:46] I think so [17:46] i thought you had to create sequences. [17:46] you *can* create sequences [17:46] and then assign them as default values [17:46] but serial just does the right thing [17:47] ahh ok [17:47] so what do you do in oracle? [17:47] you do that explicutly apparently [17:47] lemme find the reference [17:47] mercutio: memtest has been bundled for ages. I remember running it on our very first kvr host like 7 years ago. [17:48] up_the_irons: ahh ok [17:48] i only started using ubuntu around karmic [17:49] and i suspect that's about where kvr hosts started? [17:49] Hmm. not finding it [17:49] it wasn't in debian though [17:49] *** NiTe has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) [17:49] ok serial type was added in 1998 to postgres [17:50] i wonder when debian got that version :) [17:50] ahh... https://metacpan.org/pod/Rose::DB::Object and look for "Oracle" [17:50] *** NiTe has joined #arpnetworks [17:50] Since Oracle does not natively support a serial or auto-incremented column data type, an explicit sequence and trigger must be created to simulate the behavior. [17:51] that surprised me though. :) [17:55] I think 8.3 and up have serial [17:56] this source said 6.4 [17:56] mercutio: i do dev crap on the identity management team [17:56] nice! [17:56] go pg [17:56] <3 pg [17:56] yeah i dunno i used postgres a bit earlyish [17:56] but then it seemed that everyone wanted to use mysql :/ [17:56] even for just simple web hosting [17:56] protip: "Always use PostgreSQL" - Oracle Employee [17:57] cos it faster for reads or something [17:57] mysql was initially faster [17:57] but because it had less integrity [17:57] update/insert is what matters anyway [17:57] postgres really was ACID [17:57] can't you just use transactions? [17:57] ha! [17:58] transactions didn't work with the *fast* backend [17:58] just the *slow* backend "innodb" [17:58] oh right [17:58] so people deployed isam to get the wrong answer fast [17:58] hahaha [17:58] the thing is [17:58] lol [17:58] often with slow web sites it's php not the db that's slow [17:59] aside - someone actually implemented a bridge to use *postgres* as a *backend* for mysql [17:59] mysql makes me rage because of the truncate vs error thing [17:59] sinec the backend is pluggable [17:59] that's just cray imo [17:59] heh [17:59] I think they said it was faster than innodb :) [18:00] does anyone still use postgres for web sites? [18:00] many people [18:00] including me [18:00] and my clients [18:00] * qbit does [18:00] with wordpress etc i mean [18:00] old company does [18:00] custom stuff i can understand :) [18:00] in fact, if you're a greenstart, pg is really the only choice [18:00] all modern web frames can use pg [18:01] ah interesting [18:01] i remember a few issues with "mysql" code that didn't work on postres. [18:01] thanks to the modern php dbi layer [18:01] postgres [18:01] well custom code might not port [18:01] but if people are keeping it in mind i suppose it's not so bad [18:01] but the frameworks all got smart [18:01] * brycec uses drupal+postgres [18:01] yeh actually [18:01] frameworks have progressed [18:02] plugins might be the limiting thing on wordpress [18:02] but do people still create custom sql queries [18:02] or are there query builders [18:02] i've been too out of touch with that stuff [18:02] I use Rose::DB::Object and DBIx::Class in Perl [18:02] both of which are backend agnostic [18:02] Randal :) [18:02] * brycec writes SQL by hand. Wtf is a "query builder"? [18:03] it's the guy you hire to write your repetitive SQL [18:03] brycec: so hand-written code could mean you use mysql/postgres specific functionality. [18:03] haha [18:03] otherwise you spend hours writing the SAME DAMN THING with just different column names. [18:03] i must admit i'm not a huge fun of database coding [18:03] design etc [18:04] Maybe I do use X-specific functionality? I'm rarely concerned with being database-agnostic :P [18:04] but whenever i see tables with 30+ columns i'm like uhh [18:04] But then again, I'm not writing for millions of users. Or really even more than 1 user... [18:04] whenever I see a table where some columns end in digits, I run... very fast. [18:04] RandalSchwartz: like a year? [18:05] lol RandalSchwartz [18:05] Like "col0" "col1" "col2" [18:05] * RandalSchwartz runs [18:05] brycec: true, but i mean you can justify it, but many others are probably doing similar. [18:05] oh [18:05] i used to do that with non-sql :/ [18:05] c, pascal etc. [18:05] sure [18:06] but in SQL, you must understand projection (join) [18:06] heh [18:06] yeah that's the idea behind sql [18:06] I have a great story about that, but I don't want to take the time to type it here [18:06] i imagine dbase3 with indexes would work just as well for most stuff though [18:07] because no-one uses the relational stuf [18:07] simple version: gas hauling... 1-n pickups for the tanker truck, 1-m deliveries [18:07] well, hardly anyone [18:07] guy who got stuck who I replaced was writing multple columns in each record for each pickup, and then the same for each delivery. [18:07] they fired him, brought me in [18:07] I wrote a simple join. [18:07] i think part of the problem is that it's hard to understand database design for a lot of people [18:08] and the few that understand it well aren't good at making it easy to understand for those that don't [18:08] hey, I resent that [18:08] haha [18:08] although I happen to be good at explaining complex things simply [18:08] do you teach db design? [18:08] I have [18:08] just brownbags [18:09] RandalSchwartz: well you might want to keep in mind that i'm kind of pessimistic about these things :) [18:09] I've taught Perl-DBI [18:10] i think it's php coders that need to learn it :) [18:11] i suppose it's kind of like designing larger programs [18:11] as scope rises, the ability to screw up greatly rises, with overdesign, and wanting to rearchitect the whole thing, but wanting existing code to ekep working [18:15] qbit: your drive has been replaced. [18:15] oh nice! [18:15] mercutio: thanks! [18:15] showing up ok? [18:16] uh.. gimme a sec :P [18:16] all good :) [18:21] mercutio: I assume you didn't power cycle it? [18:22] yeah [18:22] no power cycle [18:22] k, phew [18:22] installer is loading.. [18:22] cool [18:26] seems ok so far [18:27] so it's showing fine [18:27] and working [18:27] did it screw up before install finished before? [18:27] RandalSchwartz: are you RandalSchwartz of perl fame? [18:28] mercutio: ya [18:28] io errors [18:29] yeah that's a very quick failure [18:29] was [18:30] second boot had no disk at all [18:34] mercutio: getting io errors on the first disk now :P [18:34] not even kidding :P [18:34] what kinda disks are these? need to not ever by them ever [18:35] Western Digital Re (Enterprise) [18:35] wd re4s [18:35] no, Re's, not RE4's [18:35] well they dropped the 4 on recent ones [18:35] but it appears to be the same [18:35] that's true, but they are the latest generation [18:35] up_the_irons: the model code is still the same on smart [18:35] mercutio: OK [18:36] but yeah hard to know if there's any diff [18:36] just different locations can make a diff in the past apparently [18:36] ok qbit will get the first disk swapped out [18:36] thanks. [18:36] should be shortly [18:36] qbit: these drives are generally good, never had issues until now. I think it's either a bad run, or someone dropped them shipping (twice) [18:37] qbit: would you be able to paste the IO errors? [18:37] ya [18:37] sec [18:39] are you ok with first hard-disk being hard-removed? [18:39] yeah, haven't been able to build the box because of .. io errors :P [18:39] cool [18:40] http://i.imgur.com/TVbhilk.png [18:40] er [18:40] http://i.imgur.com/TVbhilx.png [18:41] yeah that looks like a failure [18:41] qbit: thakns [18:41] *thanks [18:41] yeah that doesn't look good [18:41] yeah [18:43] qbit: first disk is swapped out [18:43] woo [18:47] box, Y U NO BOOT CDROM!? [18:55] well, it still had grub on it.. not sure if there was some zfs magic that was making the mbr show up from the second disk.. or if the first disk ... had the same boot code on it... [18:55] usually grub is on both disks [18:55] at least with linux [18:56] magic [18:56] there's multiple ways to go [18:56] * brycec blames shipping [18:56] and arch linux describes in depth the bootup stuff if you're into that kind of thing [18:56] * gizmoguy blames packaging [18:56] I have received some pretty terribly packed hard drives on the years [18:57] toeshred says these were packed pretty good though [18:57] i've always received pretty well shipped hard-drives [18:57] i think it's dropping g-force damage [18:57] err packaged [18:57] I'll see if I can find my picture of a hard drive that turned up loose in a large cardboard box with just some newspaper supporting it :( [18:57] gizmoguy: from where? [18:58] I can't remember [18:58] was a few years back now [18:58] ahh [18:58] The drives that were left in their original WD shipping (and shipped directly from WD) have been fine in my experience. But when you let Newegg or Amazon lackeys just toss drives in a box loose with a handful of packing peanuts, I fly off the handle. [18:58] gizmoguy++ I've been there [18:58] gizmoguy: pbtech? :) [18:59] brycec: yeah buying from computer specialised places probably makes more sense [18:59] brycec: that's why I like to buy the 20-pack drive bundles. They seem to be sent in the 20-pack bundle straight from the manufacturer in that fancy shipping tray. [19:00] up_the_irons++ (except even still sometimes...) [19:00] i find drives tend to just come in plastic tray things with a anti-static bag over eeach individual drive [19:00] I have a half dozen of those trays hanging around myself [19:00] handy for unloading + moving computers [19:01] yup, I keep them too [19:01] now i'm curious [19:01] if i take an old hard-disk with a few errors on it [19:01] how many times, and from how high can i drop it [19:01] These came from Amazon http://imgur.com/RecEs0R,SgkdIXQ [19:02] mercutio: I've tested this :D It doesn't take many drop-kicks... usually 1. [19:02] I *would* have bought a 20-pack of the WD Re's, but they are sold out everywhere... (only individual drives are available) [19:02] brycec: that's pretty fucked up [19:02] For those unfamiliar with the packaging we're talking about http://epeusa.com/images/HDD-Bulk-Pack-WEB.jpg [19:03] up_the_irons: Yup. I didn't even waste my time, they went straight back. [19:03] lol [19:03] that's awesome [19:03] one problem with those plastic trays is they don't protect from two sides of a box that well. [19:04] brycec: oh you have? :) [19:04] they protect from side to side movement, but not really if the drive lands on the head or foot. [19:04] mercutio: I took out my frustrations when working tech support... [19:04] Put some dents in the office walls by accident :) [19:05] heh. [19:05] oh i've seen smaller ones too. [19:06] so far no errors [19:06] well that's good :) [19:06] hopefully it stays that way [19:06] mercutio: smaller stuff like http://thumbs1.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/ml3FTH7nzz5t9vKqYEM-q8w.jpg you mean? [19:07] yeah [19:07] these images are so tiny [19:07] i'm thinking clera plastic [19:07] somewhat translucent [19:07] but my google foo is failing me [19:08] oh even ebay loads small [19:09] http://www.servethehome.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Newegg-Single-Hard-Drive-Packaging-May-2011-Proper-Inner-Box.jpg [19:09] i've seen that method before too [19:11] bah can't find it [19:13] up_the_irons: any chance I can get my bill to reflect now as being when I received my service? :P [19:14] I think he just left for somewhere a few minutes ago. [19:14] k [19:15] how are the new drives holding up? [19:15] so far good! [19:15] qbit: yes, certainly [19:16] thanks <3 [19:18] @weather yyz [19:18] Toronto-Pearson International, Ontario: Mostly Cloudy ☁ 68°F (20°C), Humidity: 56%, Wind: From the SW at 12 MPH Gusting to 18 MPH -- For more details including the forecast and almanac, see http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/getForecast?query=43.67722321,-79.63055420 or re-request this with: @weather -v yyz [19:19] @weather hell [19:19] Hell, MI: Overcast ☁ 59°F (15°C), Humidity: 74%, Wind: From the West at 6 MPH Gusting to 10 MPH -- For more details including the forecast and almanac, see http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/getForecast?query=, or re-request this with: @weather -v hell [19:43] @weather smo [19:43] There is 1 weather alert in effect for your area! There is a Special Statement. [19:43] Santa Monica Municipal, CA: Clear 72°F (22°C), Humidity: 78%, Wind: From the SW at 7 MPH -- For more details including the forecast and almanac, see http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/getForecast?query=34.02099991,-118.44708252 or re-request this with: @weather -v smo [19:43] Special Statement! [19:43] "You. Have. No. Water. G'bye." [19:45] I believe the answer is "Yes" 18:25:16 qbit | RandalSchwartz: are you RandalSchwartz of perl fame? [19:46] yes [19:46] sorry didn't see that question earlier [19:48] But RandalSchwartz, your adoring public awaits! [19:53] they are used to this. :) [20:21]