#arpnetworks 2015-07-18,Sat

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Who	What	When
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grody	careful of UK providers.. lots of them are crap most run off heartinternet (or resellers of) - using a shakey ass rig of hardware and networks	[08:40]
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m0unds	http://www.amazon.com/Brocade-Communications-XFP-10GBase-LR-10G-SFPP-LR-8/dp/B009HS1Z82	[11:02]
BryceBot	Amazon: "Brocade Communications XFP - 1 x 10GBase-LR 10G-SFPP-LR-8"	[11:02]
.... (idle for 17mn)
mnathani_	whats up with that image? doesnt look like networking gear to me	[11:19]
m0unds	that's why i linked it because funny brocade blows old foundry stuff was good enough, new brocade stuff is yucky	[11:23]
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kellytk	grody: Why would UK lack quality providers?	[13:04]
staticsafe	UK has plenty of good providers and stuff in London is usually well connected to both mainland Europe and USA	[13:16]
hazardous	goscomb and bytemark have been good to me heart internet is like, mm the UK equivalent of EIG i guess	[13:29]
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mercutio	EIG?	[15:45]
.... (idle for 16mn)
	this tame systemcall thing on openbsd suonds interesting	[16:01]
grody	kellytk, oh they don't lack them.. but most of the ones you find by google are by far from the best a lot are just resellers of platforms already in place	[16:07]
mercutio	well vultr's issue in uk seems to be that they're single homed with level3 i dunno why level3 would have a big issue though?	[16:07]
grody	quite a large provider	[16:09]
mercutio	vultr has quite a few random outages actually	[16:09]
grody	ovh are quite nice for VPS	[16:09]
mercutio	well i'm not doing anything that important with it just smokeping and as an external host to check connectivy/speed/blah but the loss levels were insane	[16:10]
grody	oddly, even though ARP is quite a distance, i use it for a lot of personal stuff simply because it's reliable even now ircing from it, the latency of the echo over ssh is more than acceptable but A&A > ARP has a nice fast route AA > NTT > ARP same on 4 & 6	[16:11]
mike-burns	I'm 60% of the way through reading the tame(2) diff, and I like what I see. Rather excited about the changes to ps(1), silly as that sounds.	[16:14]
mercutio	i get pretty consistent latency to arp too. but for irc i ssh to somewhere 5 msec away :)	[16:18]
kellytk	mike-burns: What kind of changes to ps are you seeing?	[16:31]
mike-burns	It prints whether the process has been tamed.	[16:31]
kellytk	I'm not finding a man page on tame. Do you have a link handy?	[16:33]
mike-burns	http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-tech&m=143725996614627&w=2	[16:34]
BryceBot	openbsd-tech: "tame(2) WIP" from Theo de Raadt <deraadt () cvs ! openbsd ! org> @ 2015-07-18 22:50:27	[16:34]
mercutio	there was an e-mail today about it so "bleeding edge"	[16:35]
mike-burns	Definitely WIP. It even includes commented-out code using // comments.	[16:35]
mercutio	a nice concept though	[16:36]
kellytk	mike-burns: That's a nice read, thank you	[16:36]
mercutio	apparently "doas" hit the tree recently too	[16:37]
mike-burns	I suspect that I won't be able to use tame(2) in my GTK+ apps. I'm going to use sudo(1) until 5.9 or 6.0, methinks.	[16:37]
mercutio	the next openbsd is in november right?	[16:38]
kellytk	I support both capabilities as well as relinquishing them	[16:38]
mercutio	i used to use a program called tame with dos	[16:39]
mike-burns	November seems right.	[16:39]
mercutio	it would help give up time slices to "hogging" applications	[16:39]
kellytk	I used to tame in UO, although that's a different context entirely	[16:39]
mercutio	lots of dos software used to poll for key presses. it was kind of ick some even did things like write character, check keyboard, write character, check keyboard so if you tamed them and it saw there were a lot of keystrokes and gave up time slice, it'd slow the character writing down :(	[16:39]
kellytk	Shameful	[16:41]
mike-burns	It was a limited OS.	[16:41]
mercutio	true, but writing characters to the screen one character at a time seems like a bad idea in any context. actually that's probably a lot less inefficient these days..	[16:41]
mike-burns	This is nearly as exciting as sed(1) taking a -i option.	[16:43]
mercutio	curl does a whole lot of that for ui stuff and you don't reall ynotice how long has sed had -i?	[16:43]
mike-burns	Two days?	[16:43]
mercutio	sed -i is basically like the replace program?	[16:43]
mike-burns	Yeah.	[16:43]
mercutio	sweet well linux already has it :)	[16:44]
mike-burns	Not even two days: 27 hours, according to CVS.	[16:44]
mercutio	i wonder if freebsd does it may be possible to start using it regularly :)	[16:44]
mike-burns	I think it does. IIRC, OBSD was inspired by FBSD.	[16:44]
mercutio	freebsd 9 does too woot	[16:44]
mike-burns	http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-tech&m=143714951126397&w=2 - the thread.	[16:45]
BryceBot	openbsd-tech: "sed -i" from Jasper Lievisse Adriaanse <jasper () openbsd ! org> @ 2015-07-17 16:10:46	[16:45]
mercutio	hmm openbsd doesn't have the replace command	[16:45]
mike-burns	I've no idea what the replace command is. I just said "yeah" when you mentioned it because hey why not.	[16:45]
mercutio	hmm it comes from mysql-server maybe this is a different one than i remember	[16:46]
mike-burns	https://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/replace-utility.html - ?	[16:46]
mercutio	it's basically like sed -i but this mysql one seems different i usually just use two files myself	[16:46]
mike-burns	We'll have to continue that for a long while, I fear.	[16:48]
mercutio	i hardly ever use egrep even sometimes it's easier to just keep things simple, even if it's more drawn out..	[16:48]
.... (idle for 15mn)
	userauth_pubkey: key type ssh-dss not in PubkeyAcceptedKeyTypes hmm openbsd stopped allowing dss keys mercutio probably should have read the upgrade changelog :)	[17:04]
	so dss isn't supported by default, but ecdsa works these days i wonder if they decided dsa was insecure	[17:14]
grody	interesting.. just cottoned on the intel dual port nic in my pfsense supports some microcode loading	[17:26]
..... (idle for 23mn)
	and it appears to dramatically reduce interupt requests	[17:49]
mercutio	yeh there are firmware blobs for broadcom/intel ethernet cards that handle coalescing etc. you can adjust coalescing levels too generally speaking it helps a lot less at 100 megabit than gigabit if you want to have "reasonable" latency err for bulk throughput - it can still help ddos type things i suppose but with adsl/vdsl loads you kind of want to interrupt for every packet well every packet received, not transmitted packets.. it's one of the instances, where higher speed links can use less cpu - as coalescing can work better	[17:55]
grody	well one is for the WAN port, the other has a few VLAN networks routed via it and does hit high duplex loads	[18:10]
mercutio	intel is wan, non-intel lan? wan < 100 megabit, lan gigabit? i'd swap the cards around	[18:10]
grody	dual port intel, one port for WAN the other port for LAN (and a couple of VLANs)	[18:11]
mercutio	ahh i see 1000pt?	[18:11]
grody	LAN or VLAN to VLAN can get quite high in load sometimes (i do have a second router for when i want faster) not yet	[18:11]
mercutio	err card type i meant	[18:12]
grody	card is 100	[18:12]
mercutio	oh?	[18:12]
grody	upto 400mbps havent got the new rig in yet	[18:12]
mercutio	http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ethernet-products/gigabit-server-adapters/pro-1000-pt-dp.html those cards are ultra cheap on ebay	[18:12]
grody	ahh the new rig has an e1000 1gbit dual port and a single port intel gigabit	[18:12]
mercutio	getting a bit old now, a bit higher power uage. lots of the older dual intel cards are the pt ones	[18:12]
grody	just having some teething issues with it	[18:13]
mercutio	chip number is like 82571 or something	[18:13]
grody	yea, this thing is quite old	[18:13]
mercutio	probably intel pt, they're pretty stable when i say higher power usage, it's TDP is only 3.43watts :) so it's not high high	[18:13]
grody	18.80% [intr{irq10: fxp0 vr0+}] \| 11.18% [intr{irq11: fxp1 uhci}] - fxp0 is LAN facer and fxp1 WAN facer, thats with a combined 74mbps passing via the thing in whole err, 54mbps*	[18:17]
mercutio	but you're upgrading to your newer box?	[18:18]
grody	soon, got to fix a few "issues"	[18:19]
mercutio	the fxp cards are pretty good for half duplex performance fwiw they're more aggressive than other cards	[18:19]
grody	running a complete overhaul (may as well) and have a few cable shortage issues and it's not really econmical to run more need a gigabit smart switch in each room with my new plans - and they're not exactly cheap	[18:20]
mercutio	you can get soem semi smart tp-links really cheap like $25 US they do vlans, bonding etc.	[18:24]
grody	http://goo.gl/h4GA6r	[18:25]
BryceBot	http://goo.gl/h4GA6r -> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/D-Link-DGS-1100-08-8-Port-Gigabit-Smart-Switch-/381254509365?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item58c48a2335	[18:25]
mercutio	but you have to use a special windows program to configure them. no web ui or serial or ssh or anything	[18:25]
grody	something like that	[18:25]
mercutio	fanless too.	[18:25]
grody	small, desktop like but smart	[18:25]
mercutio	i've been tempted to try one. i wish didn't have to use windows to configure though	[18:25]
grody	yea sod that :)	[18:25]
mercutio	these were like $25 US new	[18:25]
grody	one cable in.. multiple networks available biggest flaw in my network was the access to my main network just by plugging in a cable into almost any port on any switch (in rooms)	[18:26]
mercutio	can you configure these with webui?	[18:27]
grody	yea	[18:27]
mercutio	serial? ssh?	[18:27]
grody	i have zyxel version of these, but only 100 erm.. no idea	[18:27]
mercutio	GS105Ev2 hmm iwonder what that's like hmm apparently recent firmware added webui but it's way more expensive than tp-link i wonder if tp-link have added webui.	[18:28]
grody	their high end switches do	[18:30]
mercutio	http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00KT30D0A/ref=psdc_281414_t2_B00K4DS5KU	[18:31]
BryceBot	Amazon: "TP-LINK TL-SG2008 8-Port Gigabit Smart Switch, 802.1Q VLAN, L2/L3/L4 QoS, IGMP Snooping, Port Security, Storm Control, Web-based Management, Up to 65% Energy Saving"	[18:31]
grody	i had the odd pleasure of seeing an almost pure TP-Link home rig the other week he says it's rock solid	[18:31]
mercutio	i don't /like/ tp-link but i find their stuff seems to be better than d-link and netgear and the like and yet it's cheaper	[18:31]
grody	hmm	[18:32]
mercutio	also they seem to be pretty quick to do things like reduce power consumption	[18:32]
grody	for wifi equipment definately they use qcom/ath	[18:32]
mercutio	for switches too	[18:32]
grody	yea	[18:32]
mercutio	i'm using tp-link access router	[18:32]
grody	a lot of my stuff here is tp-link	[18:32]
mercutio	this 8 port switch says 6.4 watts i was using tp-link adsl modem	[18:33]
grody	my old main router and wifi AP were tp-link, both replaced with this single tp-link	[18:33]
mercutio	i'm using an "edgecore" switch	[18:33]
grody	tp-link for my shared wifi hotspot	[18:33]
mercutio	which is also fanless. 24+2 i compared fibre latency to copper seems much the same	[18:33]
grody	i actually have no managed switch per-se atm using port management off a couple of tp-link routers as smart switches dropping into uplinks	[18:33]
mercutio	this switch is ok, but you need to enable pause frames for it to deal with multiple ports going to one port err flow control i kind of wish i could find a cheap switch that does sfp+ it kind of seems silly to run 10 gigabit cards at gigabit	[18:34]
grody	i doubt i ever have that need i barely flatten 100mbps even put off upgrading to gbit until recently (slowly) - but thats only because i intend on getting a second vDSL	[18:36]
mercutio	well it's useful if you use hard-disk over network and even more useful when you use ssd over network but yeah gigabit would be fine :)	[18:40]
grody	it is bizarre.. used to remember running a NAT router on dialup to share the internet with a couple of hosts and alwats quizzed almost every packet coming in and out (on the modem light) and now, just running tcpdump on the router there is this bombardment of various traffic	[18:41]
mercutio	haha i have so many pings bloody smokeping hmm 47 pps ok it seemed like a lot :)	[18:41]
grody	279/30 oh wait.. thats my ARP 193444/30 will probably delegate this thing to my OpenVPN router when i rebuild it can cope with quite a bit of traffic from it in this scenario.. if it was /just/ for openvpn.. 193444 packets received by filter 191240 packets dropped by kernel hah poor thing	[18:43]
........................................... (idle for 3h33mn)
mnathani_	whats the page with top tech news?	[22:21]
mercutio	news.arpnetworks.com? if not that i have no idea what you mean :)	[22:24]
mnathani_	that was one of them brycec mentioned another I think it was when linode was switching to kvm or something	[22:26]
grody	hah sweet, i have a wifi network now using my ARP VPS as it's DHCP server and router	[22:26]
mercutio	grody: that's just weird :/	[22:26]
grody	i got bored after i added 3G failover	[22:27]
mercutio	what happens if your net goes down? :)	[22:27]
grody	well, that wifi network wont work the others will though	[22:27]
mercutio	well at least you have 3g oh hmm i hate it how my cellphone won't go to 3g from wifi if there's no internet	[22:27]
mnathani_	thats the one > https://lobste.rs/	[22:27]
mercutio	that would solve that issue :)	[22:27]
grody	just thought "whats the easiest way to appear from the US.." so i simply bridged a gif into pfsense LAN and a VAP into the gif linking with ARP my phone has "avoid poor connections" - which drops a wifi poorly performing	[22:27]
mercutio	on android?	[22:29]
grody	yea	[22:29]
mercutio	mine doesn't that i've seen	[22:29]
grody	seems to work for the most part.. if i kill the gateway, it notices after about a minute	[22:29]
mercutio	i wish you could do both at once	[22:30]
grody	disconnects and disables using it for a while	[22:30]
mercutio	with seemless fallover like be on a wifi call and shift to 3g	[22:30]
grody	i have aggressive wifi to 3g handover too ah yea that would be nice	[22:30]
mercutio	i can't check my mail if i make a call on wifi	[22:30]
grody	that just drops weaker wifi sooner	[22:30]
mercutio	but i can go about a metre from the letterbox maybe it's better now i don't want to put my phone down to check mail	[22:30]
grody	i have an AP with an external antenna on my satelite dish	[22:31]
mercutio	but sometimes i want to check the mail while i'm on the phone, ... as i tend to like walking while i talk	[22:31]
grody	it just reaches the pub on the corner garden US homes tends to be larger, harder to cover with standard indoor kit (or are you NZ) flip.. need to drop the PPPoE to (shift routing) test this and i really cba.. will wait til it breaks policy routing works over it (fun watching a packet going out 3G and return in FTTC)	[22:31]
mercutio	heh i drop heaps of signal going one room over i reckon it's my house i'm in nz i hear that some kind of metal mesh stuff is common in the US that screws with wifi too	[22:35]
kellytk	mercutio: Is your home stone or stick-built?	[22:36]
mercutio	stick? :)	[22:36]
grody	when i peeled the wallpaper to paint the walls, the paper had aluminium foil inside it (some insulation thing, but also caused moulding) which deflected radio waves of all kinds	[22:36]
mercutio	it's wooden but i think there's metal supporting beams.	[22:36]
kellytk	Wood	[22:36]
grody	3G peformance was poor in here befoe that	[22:36]
mercutio	yeh 3g is bad here too but it's not great outside either i think tower must be a way away weird it's better than normal -7dbm -75dbm it's usualy more like -90 to -100dbm i thought -85 dbm now, that's a huge jump	[22:41]
grody	my ping times to ARP are twice as good as my ping times over 3G	[22:52]
mercutio	your nexthop ping times on 3g, or 3g ping times to arp?	[22:52]
grody	323.4ms on 3G 170.2ms to ARP	[22:52]
mercutio	ahh i'm ~140ms to arp	[22:52]
grody	admitedly, the modem idles on UTMS until a certain data rate flows through it, then it goes HSPA and pings drop to about 50ms	[22:53]
mercutio	ahh that sounds annoying	[22:53]
grody	it is	[22:53]
mercutio	mine stays on H although it can do E occasaionally and it can do lte when i'm not at home	[22:53]
grody	i wont even tell you pings on G/E here average is over 1s shwing.. i now have it so i can just alter routes (or dedicate US only IP ranges) to default route over the GIF to ARP, regardless of my IP and it be NAT on the ARP :D on which note, i can go to bed (and wake up to it all broken)	[22:54]
........... (idle for 53mn)
kellytk	Suggestions for the name of a web host which is generic, does not exist, and would be clearly representative of a host? "Acme Hosting" is, unfortunately, an actual host "Example" is a little dry	[23:51]

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