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| Who | What | When |
|---|---|---|
| kellytk | grody: I make responsive websites now, so I don't design for an optimal resolution
grody: Nevermind, I missed the context | [01:48] |
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| hazardous | i seem to remember some angry profanity-filled designer rant that a page of just text and links was responsive by default and that newfangled css queries were satan | [04:16] |
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| jpalmer | jpalmer is becoming a huge fan of haproxy. I've used it for years, but recently I've been trying to optimize it.. and it's some seariously impressive software.
sorry, wrong windows. ignore my random babbling. :P | [05:01] |
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| *** | dj_goku has joined #arpnetworks | [06:03] |
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| m0unds | https://vivaldi.com/ huh. | [11:00] |
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| i like the ui | [11:19] | |
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mnathani_ has quit IRC (Client Quit) mnathani_ has joined #arpnetworks | [11:41] |
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| kellytk | I don't like web browsers pushing tabs into the title bar. It makes it difficult to move the window around | [15:05] |
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| mercutio | that's true kelly
the "novel interfaces" trend is getting silly | [15:35] |
| kellytk | I reject the move to compress an entire UI into a single pixel. IMHO, open space when used well is as essential as the rest is to the note in music | [15:36] |
| *** | gizmoguy has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) | [15:36] |
| m0unds | can't remember the last time i struggled to move a window due to the placement of tabs or whatever
but different strokes and all that | [15:37] |
| mercutio | i've had it
you have to scroll by top right rather than top left when mouse normal orientation is top left to bottom right well screen viewing is | [15:39] |
| m0unds | the only UX stuff that bothers me has to do w/touch enabled apps and devices
navigation buttons at the top of the screen is the dumbest thing ever mouse stuff is precise enough that i rarely think about it | [15:43] |
| kellytk | m0unds: With apps, I suspect buttons are placed at the top given the devices are typically held along the bottom, to avoid accidental input (a flaw of touchscreen interaction IMHO. I've no idea why there isn't a physical button to toggle soft buttons) | [15:48] |
| m0unds | on windows phone 8, ux guidelines specified that context activation was either done via left to right swiping or at the bottom of the screen
and it works fine | [15:49] |
| kellytk | That's great! | [15:50] |
| m0unds | the browser's address bar is at the bottom, it's easy to type in without stretching on larger devices
contrasting w/chrome on android that uses either the "Recent apps" thing on lollipop to manage tabs (which is awful) or a button at the top, or a gesture down from the top (which runs the risk of bringing the window shade down) | [15:50] |
| mercutio | for some reason android seems to keep showing heaps of old applications even when i reboot my phone on lollipop | [15:53] |
| m0unds | as recent?
it doesn't indicate running processes, it indicates recent apps which is partly why it's confusing to people who are used to task switching in 4.x.x, since that did actually indicate running stuff most of the time i use an app called recently to make it less of a pain in the ass, since it doesn't expire recent stuff at a sane rate by default | [15:56] |
| mercutio | oh it's recent not running | [15:58] |
| m0unds | yea | [15:58] |
| mercutio | i was wondering why heaps of things were running :/ | [15:58] |
| m0unds | yeah, sucks huh? haha | [15:59] |
| mercutio | it's also got the x way too close to the middle
why does it evn have an X you're meant to swype to get rid of yeah it's my main complaint with lollipop | [15:59] |
| m0unds | just to hide something you don't wanna see | [15:59] |
| mercutio | the other is that i seem to suddenly have battery charging issues
i used to go 2 or 3 days between charges now i seem to struggle all the time i'm not sure for how long because it's hard to get a full charge | [15:59] |
| m0unds | maybe your charger or cable? | [16:00] |
| mercutio | it's usb3 for charging
those ports usually can provide plenty of power? | [16:00] |
| m0unds | cable then? | [16:00] |
| mercutio | i didn't change cables | [16:00] |
| m0unds | hm
dunno then | [16:01] |
| mercutio | i did try shifting from monitor to computer for charging, but that's only after i was already having issues
yeh it's bizzare, as it's not even really hot | [16:01] |
| m0unds | i use a plug in charger since my usb ports can't deliver enough to charge quickly | [16:01] |
| mercutio | yeah i used to do that | [16:01] |
| m0unds | 2.1 or 2.4A charger | [16:01] |
| mercutio | but with this phone i've been find without | [16:01] |
| m0unds | weird | [16:01] |
| mercutio | my nokia charger is about that
i don't even have a nokia phone but it's way better than other chargers for quick charging. quick charging is bad though, y'know | [16:01] |
| kellytk | m0unds: Do you misfire buttons along the bottom of the screen? | [16:02] |
| m0unds | not really, no | [16:03] |
| kellytk | Ultimately would you say you prefer bottom-aligned vs top? | [16:05] |
| m0unds | on mobile? yeah, for most stuff
i'm cool w/gestures so long as they don't require reaching to the top of the display | [16:05] |
| *** | grody has quit IRC (Read error: No route to host) | [16:06] |
| kellytk | That's interesting | [16:06] |
| BryceBot | That's what she said!! | [16:06] |
| m0unds | webos had good gestures for task switching using cards and a ribbon launcher you could invoke from within any app to launch favorite stuff | [16:08] |
| mercutio | apparently cyanogenmod wanted to fork android | [16:08] |
| m0unds | android launchers replicate some of that, but it's still based around the homescreen (e.g. you have to hit a home button and launch from your home screen or app drawer)
cyngn is a fork of aosp | [16:08] |
| mercutio | take it back to where itw as before google started googlyifying everything | [16:09] |
| m0unds | their code quality sucks
(cyngn) | [16:09] |
| mercutio | and forcing everyone into their infrastructure
oh? | [16:09] |
| m0unds | i have a device w/commercial cyanogen software and it's terrible | [16:09] |
| mercutio | oneplus? | [16:09] |
| m0unds | cyanogen the company vs cyanogenmod
yep hardware has been fine, software makes me want to throw the thing in a toilet | [16:09] |
| mercutio | i see
well it doesn't seem like there is much freedom really | [16:09] |
| *** | mjp_ has quit IRC (Quit: leaving) | [16:10] |
| mercutio | i do like the idea of someone forking it and making it more free
i'd liek to see os updates not needing reboots too :) | [16:10] |
| m0unds | shipping builds with tons of broken features and functionality - this current "stable" build fixed bad synaptics firmware, but broke bluetooth and has a broken dhcpcd binary and some other shit | [16:10] |
| mercutio | erk | [16:10] |
| m0unds | oh, random systemui crashes due to kernel modifications, awful camera HAL to hack around limitations in their own camera app | [16:10] |
| mercutio | my camera app seems a bit upgraded on lollipop | [16:11] |
| m0unds | they committed to providing certain features before android natively supported them via new imaging apis, and to maintain that functionality in 5.x, they keep having to hack on it
like raw capture and long exposures and stuff | [16:11] |
| mercutio | sounds useful | [16:11] |
| m0unds | but they broke things like..the led flash, causing images to get split down the middle w/wildly different exposure values | [16:11] |
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| mercutio | eek | [16:12] |
| m0unds | (i won't use a flash on a phone, it's kind of pointless)
but lots of people do | [16:12] |
| mercutio | i don't know how to disable my led flash
it's bloody annoying | [16:12] |
| m0unds | if you use google camera or aosp camera, it should just have a button to tap to turn it off | [16:12] |
| mercutio | i don't use my camera much, but when i do i hate the way flash makes things look
there's a button to spin it around, but there's hardly any buttons | [16:12] |
| m0unds | they made their bugtracker public too, and it's just flooded with tons of garbage and they only have one dude to triage it | [16:12] |
| kellytk | Flash on a phone, to me, is like a VM written in an interpreted language | [16:12] |
| mercutio | there's just a turn around and video button
if you press anywhere else it takes a picture | [16:13] |
| m0unds | on the default google and aosp camera, on the bottom right above the shutter button is where i have a no flash thing
oh, weird. | [16:13] |
| mercutio | if i long press it takes multiple pictures
woot found it you swipe in from left of course there's nothing suggesting that you can even swipe | [16:14] |
| m0unds | https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/zOfP19DxmOextqNRQZ4vO6TuxWuSH0RteAgsXtE7M8Q=w497-h882-no | [16:15] |
| mercutio | but i found zoom... when i was gliding across | [16:15] |
| m0unds | that's unintuitive
hahahah | [16:15] |
| mercutio | i even tried video and turning around in some vain hope that it may start showing it
yeh i don't find android very intuititve | [16:15] |
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| m0unds | i think the thing i like the most about it is the intents system for sharing | [16:46] |
| mercutio | why does freebsd have tail -F instead of tail --follow=name
i wish shit like that could be standardised :) | [16:46] |
| m0unds | haha | [16:46] |
| mercutio | hi gizmoguy :)
keeping warm? | [16:50] |
| gizmoguy | It's a little chilly down here if I'm going to be honest
very decent frost this morning | [16:50] |
| mercutio | it was looking kind of frosty last night here
well like it does in chch when you know there's going to be a frost in the morning, the "pre frsot" s/frsot/frost/ | [16:51] |
| BryceBot | <mercutio> well like it does in chch when you know there's going to be a frost in the morning, the "pre frost" | [16:51] |
| mercutio | i didn't get up early enough to notice any frost here though | [16:51] |
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| kellytk | Favorite fonts/families for web pages? | [17:17] |
| mercutio | andale mono? | [17:18] |
| jbergstroem | kellytk: i'm a fan of https://www.google.com/fonts/specimen/Open+Sans | [17:18] |
| mercutio | why can't you just use the normal browser fonts? | [17:20] |
| kellytk | Hey Steve Matteson made both of those fonts mercutio, jbergstroem! I like them
mercutio: Oh I can | [17:23] |
| mercutio | curious :) | [17:23] |
| jbergstroem | mercutio: he asked for 'favorite'? :) | [17:24] |
| mercutio | i'm still using ubuntu mono for my terminals it seems
i probably should have included a serif font for web too i was finding consolas worked well for terminal before but it's easier even on arch to install ubuntu fonts i think :) i wonder if there's a better terminal font than consolas now | [17:24] |
| jbergstroem | fonts (esp woff2) is a great way to add branding for websites imo. easy to bundle glyphs, a heading or body typeface and logo in the same file. | [17:25] |
| mercutio | http://input.fontbureau.com/ | [17:28] |
| kellytk | I think a professional web font is a great purchase | [17:28] |
| mercutio | this looks interesting for termianls
oh cool you can adjust it | [17:28] |
| kellytk | After my seizure caused by the splash graphic I liked the font mercutio | [17:29] |
| mercutio | seizure?
from rapid movement? | [17:29] |
| kellytk | The rapidly changing images impose on me | [17:30] |
| mercutio | damn | [17:31] |
| kellytk | I'm sensitive | [17:32] |
| mercutio | have you tried adjusting colours? | [17:32] |
| kellytk | Thanks for the font pointers mercutio, jbergstroem
It's the movement more than anything else. My mind becomes engaged with the content which is then changed, frustrating it | [17:32] |
| mercutio | apparently some people with types of sensitivity can be worse with blue lighting
ahh | [17:33] |
| kellytk | That's interesting. I should reinstall f.lux | [17:34] |
| BryceBot | That's what she said!! | [17:34] |
| mercutio | i've been experimenting with 10% tinted glasses. | [17:34] |
| kellytk | Thanks for the reminder mercutio | [17:34] |
| mercutio | it made blue lights on cars much easier
but it even helped cars using full bream yellow which weirded me out a ltitle. err 10% yellow tinted. my screens have different whites though, and tinting exposes it easier. there's a linux f.lux like program too redshift that's it i'm only doing 6500 to 5200 shift atm i probably should drop lower | [17:34] |
| kellytk | I like the generous kerning in Open Sans | [17:39] |
| staticsafe | http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/pdf/2015/150713e.pdf | [17:43] |
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| mercutio | did you see how you could modify that one i linked?
on fontbureau | [18:21] |
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| kellytk | mercutio: At http://input.fontbureau.com/preview/? | [20:13] |
| mercutio | f.d
yeh | [20:13] |
| kellytk | Yea it's cool | [20:13] |
| mercutio | sometimes hard to know if i'm in dvorak or qwerty :)
i like 0 having a dot in the middle when coding i used to think it looked funny though | [20:13] |
| kellytk | Even http://input.fontbureau.com/download/ shows very nice looking type. It has sufficient kerning, a solid weight, and a squat substantial feel
I agree | [20:14] |
| mercutio | coding is kind of special in that you want it to look good at small text size and easily readible/distinguishable so that you can have lots of code at once | [20:14] |
| kellytk | Even when writing I cross my zeros | [20:14] |
| mercutio | i'm at 275x75 for a full text window now
err 273.. but yeah i subdivide it | [20:15] |
| kellytk | I didn't know Ti-83s have an IRC client | [20:16] |
| mercutio | i mean characters :) | [20:16] |
| kellytk | ;-) | [20:16] |
| mercutio | years back i was at about 110x43 or smoething | [20:16] |
| kellytk | I also like a distinction between lower L and upper I | [20:16] |
| mercutio | without subdividing
but 25 rows really doesn't work well with coding, and 50 was ugly :) | [20:17] |
| kellytk | I only have about 50 rows :-P
I have a 27" display however I like to sit back from it and crank up the font size | [20:17] |
| mercutio | so it's hard to have stuff above and below
i'm on 28" and my text is tiny :) | [20:18] |
| kellytk | What are your thoughts on 4/5k? | [20:18] |
| mercutio | well i'm using 4k atm | [20:18] |
| kellytk | How do you like it? | [20:18] |
| mercutio | it's not really much better than 1440p for desktop use i reckon.
i am at the same font size as i was at 1440p err, i mean the text is the same size it's just a bit sharper. with 27" i take it you're at 1440p? | [20:18] |
| kellytk | No clue, I run whatever's native for the display and it doesn't say | [20:20] |
| mercutio | xrandr will tell you | [20:20] |
| brycec | 27" displays tend to be either 1080p or 1440p (or some are 4k) | [20:20] |
| mercutio | brycec: 4k seem to usually be 28".. 27" yeah 1080p or 1440p | [20:21] |
| kellytk | 2560 x 1440 | [20:21] |
| mercutio | yeah that's 1440p
it's basically the point where it stops mattering nearly as much imo like 1440p is a huge jump to 1440p, but 4k isn't such a big jump up 1080p it's quite a squeeze to have 2x2 grid with content in each box so you end up wanting to split the screen 1:3 or such and constantly moving windows around | [20:21] |
| kellytk | My next setup will have three smaller 4/5k displays. 27" is larger than I like | [20:23] |
| mercutio | well i didn't use 1080p much to be honest, mostly 1920x1200... but it's basically the same diff
really? | [20:23] |
| kellytk | Yep | [20:23] |
| mercutio | i was at 24" with 1920x1200
27" isn't a huge jump up in size from 24" | [20:23] |
| kellytk | 21-24 is ideal for me | [20:23] |
| mercutio | well aspect ratio comes into play there too a little
as 24" 16:10 is taller than 24" 16:9 i used to use 3 monitors | [20:23] |
| kellytk | What is your preferred dispaly setup? | [20:26] |
| mercutio | it overloaded me
what do you mean? | [20:26] |
| kellytk | How many, what sizes? | [20:26] |
| mercutio | well i'm using 27" 1440p + 28" 4k
plus i have like a 21" or something 1080p that i use for testing stuff | [20:27] |
| kellytk | How do you use the duece? | [20:27] |
| mercutio | synergy | [20:27] |
| kellytk | deuce | [20:27] |
| mercutio | two computers one keyboard/mouse | [20:27] |
| kellytk | Input switches are handy | [20:28] |
| mercutio | the 21" or whatever is in another area of room
not really synergy gives you cut and paste between them :) | [20:28] |
| kellytk | Oh I thought you were actually using the word synergy | [20:28] |
| mercutio | nah
it's a program :) i will probably shift to 3 monitors once i reorganise desks/computers | [20:30] |
| kellytk | What I like about three is one straight out, then one each left and right | [20:30] |
| mercutio | yeh it's hard to look between left and right
i found two fits nicer | [20:31] |
| kellytk | You just turn your head | [20:31] |
| mercutio | and that i often would leave the third once turned off :) | [20:31] |
| brycec | I'm with mercutio
My productivity starts dropping off at 3 monitors. just too much screen area. | [20:31] |
| mercutio | i'm really not sure how i can use the third, but i have a spare monitor
maybe hackintosh brycec: yeh i was mostly thinking of status things and for overlap etc | [20:32] |
| kellytk | The way I use three is social/chat on left, work center, research/browsers right | [20:34] |
| mercutio | but i probably woudn't normally use it still
i have browsers left work right | [20:34] |
| kellytk | brycec: What's your preferred setup? | [20:34] |
| mercutio | and irc right too
but my left is more like straight ahead | [20:34] |
| brycec | I've found that with my two (a 23" 1080p used primarily for chat, and a 27" 1440p used for whatever my focus is) that I don't need a third monitor for browser/research, it always fits ~somewhere~. And another monitor wastes more desk space than it gives me value, and it ends up being too far away from me to read comfortably. | [20:36] |
| mercutio | hmm my desk fit all 3 ok sort of..
(used the whole width) so the distance wasnt' my issue, it was more how much can take in for me | [20:36] |
| brycec | It's not that they don't physically fit on my desk (vertical monitors ftw, btw) but that it ends up being too far away to read and a waste of desk space.
If I'm sitting .5m from my left and centre monitors, the right monitor is .75m+ away | [20:37] |
| kellytk | I've thought about making a vertically stacked "coding pod" from an old racing simulator | [20:38] |
| brycec | (random numbers for illustrative purposes) | [20:38] |
| mercutio | also i find with things like browsers animations irritate me if they're always there
hmm i'm about a metre from my monitors | [20:38] |
| kellytk | brycec: What's your experience with vertically stacked displays? | [20:38] |
| mercutio | oh random numbers :)
i find even with two monitors i need them further apart to deal best err further away | [20:38] |
| brycec | A few years back I did 2x2 19" 1080p displays. It's okay. Ended up being too much physical area and inefficient for me. Only complaint about vertically stacking monitors is the bezel gap between displays. | [20:40] |
| mercutio | i've wondered what 4k tv's would be like as a single display | [20:41] |
| kellytk | One for each eye | [20:41] |
| brycec | Yeah merc, random ;P Essentially, i sit at a comfortable distance from my left monitor, but that keeps me left-of-centre of my centre monitor. A monitor on the right would be "way far away" relatively. | [20:41] |
| mercutio | speaking of bezels, why do samsung tv's have glossy bezels? | [20:42] |
| brycec | Because they were designed to? :P | [20:42] |
| mercutio | it's distracting when watching tv and the bezel reflects light | [20:42] |
| kellytk | Do they? That's a gross misuse of bezel IMHO
Absolutely | [20:42] |
| mercutio | yeah, i'm not a huge fan of samsung tv's in general
but that's one of the annoying things about them | [20:43] |
| kellytk | If they were my design the bezel would be a charcoal color carbon treatment with a matte finish naturally
Technically, it seems a bit annoying that they apparently run a hot mic | [20:43] |
| mercutio | i wish they'd stop sticking logos on the front too :) | [20:44] |
| kellytk | Hideous :-( | [20:44] |
| mercutio | oh they also like to do some annoying blue light on the front too
like really wide damnit now i findh it hard to find a picture i like it how hp monitors have an easy to find option to turn off any light cos with this trend of blue lights lots are painful | [20:44] |
| kellytk | Is there a keyboard layout where "-" (hyphen) is difficult to access? | [20:49] |
| mercutio | qwerty
it's a lot easier with dvorak; it's on the key that qwerty has for semi-colon. err one right of that oops :) the key for ' so pinky finger one movement right whereas with qwerty it's two rows above home row | [21:00] |
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| kellytk | Sorry, I should have defined difficult to access; not available by direct keypress | [21:29] |
| mnathani_ | http://mnathani.com/uploads/Panorama_home_toronto_hi_res.jpg
and for those bandwidth impaired or impatient: http://mnathani.com/uploads/Panorama_home_toronto_low_res.jpg | [21:36] |
| mercutio | oh
i think it's generally fine kelly that looks nifty :) wow peoples lawns are so immaculate there | [21:49] |
| ..... (idle for 23mn) | ||
| rendrag: nice post on ausnog :) | [22:14] | |
| ........... (idle for 53mn) | ||
| kellytk | In HTTP, is it correct to refer to the host of the client, from the server perspective, as sender? https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7230#page-7 states as much
Lower, it refers to the client end as user agent, however from what I read about user agent, I take that to be referring to 'the user agent of the sender' Client could itself be sufficient. I'm logging the IP of the client submitting a registration form to a website in a db | [23:07] |
| There we go, found "e.g., the network address of the client" | [23:17] | |
| ..... (idle for 21mn) | ||
| mercutio | usually it's client/server
sending is any data sent and is more at a TCP level than HTTP level. ietf's are always annoying to read ... but their word usage remains constant and they'll define how they're using words. kelly, client ip's can also be passed via proxies too. X-Forwarded-For I think it is | [23:38] |
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