#arpnetworks 2015-07-10,Fri

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Who

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When

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mercutio

@weather akl

BryceBot

Auckland International, New Zealand: Clear 41°F (5°C), Humidity: 87%, Wind: From the North at 4 MPH -- For more details including the forecast and almanac, see http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/getForecast?query=-37.00805664,174.79167175 or re-request this with: @weather -v akl

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mercutio

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/06/30/windows_10_wi_fi_sense/

BryceBot

Title: "UH OH: Windows 10 will share your Wi-Fi key with your friends' friends • The Register"

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grody

android does too
at least, via NFC
i have to giggle at this router consituting IPv6 ready in the stock firmware
sure, you can give LAN interfaces an IPv6, and ping it and access it's webui.. but it doesnt talk IP6CP or so RA or the like

plett

grody: The Windows 10 thing is a lot more special than that. It sends your wireless passwords to MS, who then load it into the phones/laptops of all your Facebook friends so they can use the same wifi

grody

eeek
i know googles stores wifi passwords and restores them when you link a new phone to your account
but sharing like that != good
i have a dedicated wifi for friends and guests
they can keep their crappy devices isolated away from mine

plett

And the (only?) way to prevent MS doing this for your wifi is to rename your SSID

grody

i know with Google if you don't want them to map your wifi for location, you have to add _nomap to the end of your SSID
i can see that getting m$ in a lot of trouble here
Google got in shit just for technically wardriving

plett

grody: So if you let one guest with a Windows 10 device use your wifi, you are also automatically allowing their mum, their colleagues and their crazy ex-girlfriend to connect to your network too.

grody

yea thats not cool
also potentially illegal over here

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grody

plett, yea.. microsoft sharing wifi passwords of private wireless networks will get blasted

plett

I'm not sure. The news stories about it are almost two weeks old now and there doesn't seem to be any outrage

grody

imagine that one person is a known pest, he talks his way into getting guest access - you dont track your guests as you trust them, that guest just shared your wifi password to a cell of sorts
probably because people don't see the downside to such a feature
"Microsoft also adds that Wi-Fi Sense will only provide internet access, and block connections to other things on the wireless LAN:"
sure, right, ok

mercutio

grody: pretty fucking gross

grody

i had to read that twice as i didn't believe what i was actually reading

mercutio

i don't sign into windows 10 with msn

grody

i used some obscure email login for windows 10
nobody would have that contact :>
hmm, is hardware NAT switch based NAT or something?
surely that == bad

mercutio

yeh it's on the switch
it's got hooks into iptables somehow

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grody

crap i hate this rebuilding the edge thing
i never realised that the simplicity of border routing was so bloody stupidly complex
grody curses himself for wanting to minimize hardware use
didn't realise my PPPoE router is also a smart switch too

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m0unds

re: wi-fi sense, it's off by default and you have to enable it and then actively allow it to share stuff. otherwise, it does nothing.
stupid feature for a PC regardless, but also not a big deal if you don't actually use it.

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grody

tbh, if you want to steal wifi passwords.. work for google

m0unds

you have to opt into it
so you consent
if you don't want it, don't enable it. full stop.
kneejerk stuff like that makes my head hurt. it exists as a feature for people who want it. if you don't, don't use it. not hard.

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grody

still.. i can see so many ways that could be (ab)used
although on a good note, openwrt is working this router pretty well

m0unds

that's good

grody

wifi performance is questionable, as always :/
if only build dd-wrt was as simple

m0unds

i haven't used dd-wrt for a long time. found that they let some business customer customizations into their codebase in the form of hardcoded firewall rules and management logins. tried reporting it to them responsibly, they never replied. reported it on their forums and got banned
this was 5-6 yrs ago

grody

hah

m0unds

and their tendency to mark every device they could as "supported", even if that meant that radio performance was 5% of what it should be, or that it crashes or whatever

grody

public disclosure usually changes attitude

m0unds

yea, they didn't fix it for almost 3 months
someone else reported it later and was also banned, but they fixed it shortly after
their attitude was "so some stuff from a customer got in our code base. big deal. shit happens" etc

grody

plett, why don't A&A just use openwrt as a codebase for basic shipped routers and something like this n600

plett

Because it would be impossible to support

grody

aww :(
just had to flip my hilink into serial mode to utilize the 3G modem (the horrid USB ethernet NATs)

plett

Any specific device that exists now and supports openwrt won't be available in a year's time, so we would have dozens of different hardware devices which we need to make work

grody

true

m0unds

that doesn't sound fun

grody

tbh.. this thing i can see being unreplaced for some time
those technicolors are just horrid

plett

And reflashing it will instantly void any support we get from the manufacturer

m0unds

ugh, i've heard about technicolor router/modem things

grody

awww noo
im gonna lose my 100% connection uptime so far for july
PPP session has been rocking for 16 days now :(

m0unds

doh

plett

The technicolors work fine for their intended purpose - which is ISP managed devices. They are quite horrible if the end user is trying to set them up manually, so don't do that

grody

i did notice in the tplink default firmware after update, it actually offered SLAAC and DHCPv6 for LAN and WAN

m0unds

the cellular cantenna + router technicolor stuff sounded pretty bad

grody

it seemed to work on the LAN front.. no idea if it'd so PPP IP6CP
or RFC4638

m0unds

the two devices, one nats the other andfor a long time would crash if you passed any sort of IPSEC (iirc) through it
there was a long-running thread about that specific set of devices on verizon wireless' site for almost a year before it finally got patched

grody

technicolors are probably the most common ISP chucked routers here too

m0unds

ah

grody

although BT and Virgin have some "super" hub efforts

m0unds

i had no idea they made that sort of equipment til my friend ended up w/something from verizon wireless

grody

im mostly tp-link for embedded here
low cost, good quality

m0unds

they use arris (motorola) a lot w/cable here
and uhh, actiontec i think w/dsl in my market

grody

broadcom is very common here
but haewei and alcatel iirc is getting back in
hmmm
im second guessing putting 3G failover on the open
thinking i should keep it on the pfsense

BryceBot

That's what she said!!

grody

no, she seriously didn't
especially after what i bought on ebay last night

crap, cant find the link now.. basically an older duo 2 2.2GHz dual core effort 2/ 2GB RAM and a 32GB SSD and dual 1Gbit intel pro NIC

mini ITX style too

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brycec

BryceBot: no

BryceBot

Oh, okay... I'm sorry. 'thinking i should keep it on the pfsense'

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grody

hmm, i seem to have cut short on needs on building openwrt for this thing
so used to 4M flash
added just about everything i'd thought i'd need, and my flash file is only 5.7MB big
might just have to see if this enough space to play with freifunk

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mercutio

4M flash is really bloody annoying
did you add vim, tcpdump etc?
i wonder if there's something inbetween vim and busybox vi. i can't use busybox vi :)

brycec

Pfft who really needs vi? All I need is cat :p (Sure, it's inconvenient... but it works.)

mercutio

the firewall config
grody: sounds ideal.. for hardware
well nearly ideal, i prefer i3ish as they use less power
which often translates to lower noise
i'd like to see them having 2+gb of flash myself :)
and using a much more full system

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grody

i erm squeezed in *cough*nano*cough*
tcpdump seems small enough to fit into the 4M flash - depends how you build
ive gotten quite skilled at building a complete enough openwrt with limited space

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grody

hrm
i wonder if i can blag extra data on this typo

went to apply for a 1GB 3G service, and it states "This bundle will give you 10240MB of allowance"

mercutio

heh
yeh
they should honour it :))
yeah i got tcpdump and vim into 4mb i think
d-link adsl modem
but couldn't do anything else :/
i hate how you can't upgrade withotu rebuild with limited flash

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