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| mnathani__ | anyone use FreeRADIUS before ? | [01:21] | |
| *** | mnathani__ has quit IRC () | [01:22] | |
| mercutio | i have | [01:25] | |
| brycec | Yup
It's the only Radius I've ever used, in fact :P (And I've used it in several deployments, and using it now.) | [01:34] | |
| *** | mnathani_ has joined #arpnetworks | [01:36] | |
| mercutio | i've used cistron radius too
although not in a long long time | [01:37] | |
| *** | rendrag has joined #arpnetworks | [01:38] | |
| mnathani_ | brycec: does it have a web interface for configuration or is it command line / config files only?
also what capacity have you used it? My use case is centralized cisco login database but I hear it can be used for VPN, WPA2 Enterprise wifi logins etc I need to do read more documentation s/do/go | [01:41] | |
| BryceBot | <mnathani_> I need to go read more gocumentation | [01:43] | |
| mercutio | mnathani_: there are heaps of web ui's for it
afaik they all suck mnathani_: you could consider ldap too for that i imagine if you just want to add users the sql structure is pretty simple http://wiki.freeradius.org/modules/Rlm_sql | [01:45] | |
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| rendrag | Don't suppose anyone knows how long graphs.arpnetworks.com is going to be down? | [01:52] | |
| mercutio | rendrag: probably not long?
up_the_irons: you around? | [01:54] | |
| rendrag | ok
been down about 12 hours so far wasn't sure if it was a known outage, or if I should email them | [01:54] | |
| mercutio | did you do a ticket?
probably if in doubt email well that's what i'd do if i cared ;) | [01:54] | |
| brycec | FreeRadius itself does not have a GUI. 01:39:51 mnathani_ | brycec: does it have a web interface for configuration or is it command line / config files only?
But since it can pull from all sorts of sources/databases... | [02:00] | |
| mercutio | brycec: it sort of does now
there's soemthing called dialupadmin on their page | [02:01] | |
| brycec | That would be news to me. But I don't care :P | [02:01] | |
| mercutio | but it's loosely coupled etc i imagine | [02:01] | |
| brycec | pfSense makes a pretty easy GUI/RADIUS server actually | [02:01] | |
| mercutio | i've used ara too
ara is pretty basic http://labs.asn.pl/ara/ | [02:01] | |
| brycec | Well *I* didn't know about it, if that counts for anything :P 01:52:42 ⤷ | wasn't sure if it was a known outage, or if I should email them | [02:03] | |
| mercutio | i checked my graphs like a week ago and it was working
but i don't check very often at all | [02:03] | |
| brycec | Ditto | [02:03] | |
| mercutio | i learnt that leaving mtr running pushes my traffic baseline up | [02:04] | |
| brycec | My machines monitor their own bandwidth, and I have such a fat allotment anyways... | [02:04] | |
| mercutio | i don't think i'm even doing much volume | [02:04] | |
| rendrag | haha yeah, I don't check it overly often either
we've just been doing a fair bit of international traffic this week, so i wanted to check were we're at | [02:04] | |
| mercutio | ahh | [02:04] | |
| rendrag | (one of our upstreams uses black lotus for DDoS mitigation, and BL suck majorly for throughput - can't get more than ~5mbps through them, so we use an ARP networks VPS with a BGP session and GREv6 tunnels to get our international traffic over the pond to AU here, without BL being in the way | [02:05] | |
| mercutio | you get like 10tb of data if you get a dedicated server | [02:05] | |
| rendrag | yeah I'm about to send them an email to see about migrating to a dedi
just had a few months on a VPS to see what their stability is like :) | [02:05] | |
| brycec | I have 12TB | [02:05] | |
| mercutio | yeah for your user case i'd recommend | [02:06] | |
| brycec | (on my dedi's account) | [02:06] | |
| rendrag | It's been pretty impressive, only one BGP outage | [02:06] | |
| mercutio | use | [02:06] | |
| brycec | (though there is a VPS in that mix now that I think about it) | [02:06] | |
| mercutio | what was the bgp outage? | [02:06] | |
| rendrag | I don't know, late march, they dropped off the internet for ~5 mins | [02:06] | |
| mercutio | rendrag: what's throughput like from nz to you out of curiosity? | [02:07] | |
| rendrag | could get in on V6, but not V4 | [02:07] | |
| mercutio | does it bypass the mitigation shit | [02:07] | |
| rendrag | depends on where in NZ | [02:07] | |
| mercutio | mercutio is in new zealand and can upload at high speed if you want to check :)
like 202.49.71.24 | [02:07] | |
| rendrag | our main upstream has gear in NZ, so anything on peering in NZ ends up coming across directly | [02:07] | |
| mercutio | ahh
what's an ip of yours | [02:08] | |
| BryceBot | That's what she said!! | [02:08] | |
| mercutio | i hope it's not vocus :/ | [02:08] | |
| rendrag | yep that goes straight across :)
103.235.52.2 | [02:08] | |
| mercutio | vocus are shit from nz for their peered stuff
bloody vocus 25.8msec min, 26.5msec average | [02:08] | |
| rendrag | (I should mention I also work at my upstream, lol) | [02:08] | |
| mercutio | do you peer in sydney? | [02:09] | |
| rendrag | i don't, my upstream does
traceroute to your IP hits megaport peering in syd, then goes across the pond inside plain's network from the look | [02:09] | |
| mercutio | who's the upstream? servercontrol?
yip reverse path hits vocus ape | [02:10] | |
| rendrag | yeah, servers australia | [02:10] | |
| mercutio | megaport in both dircetions would be faster | [02:10] | |
| rendrag | (servercontrol is their whitelabel brand to keep some customers happy ;) ) | [02:10] | |
| mercutio | ahh
wow your web site loaded quick | [02:10] | |
| rendrag | some of their smaller (but like to pretend they're bigger) customers got cranky having sau.net.au hops in traceroutes lol | [02:11] | |
| mercutio | heh | [02:11] | |
| kellytk | Thoughts on https://www.icann.org/stewardship/coordination-group out of curiosity? | [02:11] | |
| mercutio | you have cheap vps's ;) | [02:12] | |
| rendrag | and yet noone ever signs up for them, go figure
meanwhile I sell a mega-shit-tonne of shoutcast streaming lol | [02:12] | |
| mercutio | heh
it's probably openvz | [02:12] | |
| rendrag | yeah those ones are :) | [02:12] | |
| mercutio | is my thought upon reading it | [02:13] | |
| rendrag | I should put the xen plans up some day
sell a lot of those, but it's all word of mouth | [02:13] | |
| mercutio | put it up then | [02:13] | |
| rendrag | figured I wouldn't sell expensive VPS's by general passing traffic | [02:13] | |
| mercutio | i have a vultr host i use for testing stuff from australia | [02:14] | |
| rendrag | it's all citrix xenserver with iscsi san backend | [02:14] | |
| mercutio | no-one else seemed to have affordable au vps's | [02:14] | |
| rendrag | nice and reliable, but not cheap in the slightest | [02:14] | |
| mercutio | oh they're expensive.
hahaha i like your icon for your service status ;/ it reminded me of xymon | [02:14] | |
| rendrag | it is ;) | [02:15] | |
| mercutio | damn xymon is ugly
but it works well | [02:15] | |
| rendrag | started off as big brother back in the 90's
and then when that went commercial, I installed hobbit, and it used the same config and history, and then went to xymon when hobbit changed names | [02:15] | |
| mercutio | i like it how your web pages load quick | [02:16] | |
| rendrag | ramdrive for mysql tmp tables :)
makes a crazy difference | [02:16] | |
| mercutio | with all the database lookups etc most people selling hosting and stuff seem to have web sites that crawl
bloody mysql | [02:16] | |
| rendrag | hah ayeah
would be bad form for me to have a slow DB ;) we (servers aus, not rendag) hosted the afl/nfl fantasy football last year now THAT was some mysql tuning ;) | [02:17] | |
| BryceBot | That's what she said!! | [02:18] | |
| rendrag | had 32gb of ramdrive per db server ;) | [02:18] | |
| mercutio | is it serversaustralia or rendrag you work for? | [02:18] | |
| rendrag | but we were stustaining 5000 concurrent web requests without a sweat :) | [02:19] | |
| mercutio | or do youwork for both? | [02:19] | |
| rendrag | both :-p | [02:19] | |
| mercutio | ahh | [02:19] | |
| rendrag | sau is my day job, rendrag is my own thing | [02:19] | |
| mercutio | ahh right
and serversaustralia don't mind? well they're selling you bandwidth so they can't mind too much :) | [02:19] | |
| rendrag | (rendrag kinda formed out of a previous employer that went bust back in 2004, and paid me out by handing me their client base) | [02:19] | |
| mercutio | ahh | [02:20] | |
| rendrag | haha yeah they don't mind, just have to keep it balanced if I do rendrag stuff during work hours | [02:20] | |
| mercutio | so you're not really expanding it | [02:20] | |
| rendrag | nah, it just slowly expands, pickup ~15 clients a year, drop maybe 5 a year | [02:20] | |
| mercutio | haha
serversaustralia web page loads much slower | [02:20] | |
| rendrag | hah ayeah,I have nothing to do with the public website | [02:20] | |
| mercutio | this is what i mean by web sites that load slow ;/ | [02:21] | |
| rendrag | I look after the customer portal and all the backend provisioning automations
yeah, their site has way too much marketing crap on it all the various analytics-ey stuff | [02:21] | |
| mercutio | curl --compressed -v https://www.serversaustralia.com.au/ 0.01s user 0.00s system 0% cpu 3.720 total
i mean seriously the main web page before all that stuff still takes 3.7 seconds to load curl --compressed -v https://www.rendrag.net.au/ > /dev/null 0.01s user 0.00s system 3% cpu 0.300 total an order of magnitude faster :) | [02:21] | |
| rendrag | hahahahh yeah
man, wtf are they doing with the redirects | [02:23] | |
| mercutio | curl --compressed -v https://www.arpnetworks.com/ > /dev/null 0.01s user 0.00s system 1% cpu 0.579 total | [02:23] | |
| rendrag | www.servers -> servers -> https://servers, and THEN 3 seconds | [02:23] | |
| mercutio | arp is fine too, and it's further away..
probably some cookies thing i dunno | [02:23] | |
| rendrag | yeah, I might dig at that a bit tomorrow | [02:24] | |
| mercutio | that knid of slowness isn't uncommon though
heh, out of curiosity i tried checking my email for rendrag. you post to ausnog a lot? :) | [02:24] | |
| rendrag | perhaps ;) | [02:26] | |
| mercutio | heh
nothing about blacklotus sucking i see though | [02:27] | |
| rendrag | haha nah | [02:28] | |
| mercutio | i suppose you can't really say that in public | [02:28] | |
| rendrag | can't really gripe about it too publically when my work spruik's them so hard ;) | [02:28] | |
| mercutio | yeh
yeah it's one thing that really puts me off serversaustralia :/ the other is using vocus :/ | [02:28] | |
| rendrag | haha
it's hard to get away from vocus now even equinix use them as their upstream :[02:29] <mercutio> price? | [02:29] | |
| mercutio | megaport :/
why even touch equinix equininix is overpriced anyway | [02:29] | |
| rendrag | because the boss did some crazy deals with both, and x amount of transit gets included with every rack | [02:30] | |
| mercutio | and if they're going to use vocus ... | [02:30] | |
| rendrag | which ads up like mad when you're buying hundreds and hundreds of racks ;) | [02:30] | |
| mercutio | so they're not allowed to buy non vocus transit?
or just harder to justify the expense of | [02:30] | |
| rendrag | nono, equinix and vocus are the largest datacenters here in .au ;) | [02:31] | |
| mercutio | hmm
isn't equinix like really expensive per 1u? new zealand sucks for data centres it's not that cheap to fix though | [02:31] | |
| rendrag | yeah they're not cheap.. but we buy a few hundred racks from them, so the price comes down quite remarkably | [02:32] | |
| mercutio | so no-one seems to be willing to suddenly build a decent datacentre with good pricing
at a few hundred you could consider building your own dc?: ) | [02:33] | |
| rendrag | was funny actually, I got a call from equinix a few weeks ago.. 'We noticed on your website, that you say you're colocated at equinix! We don't have a record of you, so you must be through one of our customers.. We'd like to get you to move directly to us!! We can be very competitive!'
'Sure, just match what I pay with my current provider, and I'd be receptive!' | [02:33] | |
| mercutio | haha | [02:33] | |
| rendrag | 'Oh, how much do you pay? | [02:33] | |
| mercutio | $0?
i think that's fucking rude btw | [02:34] | |
| rendrag | '1450 a month per rack for 3 racks, and 2 gig of transit!'
*crickets chirping* | [02:34] | |
| mercutio | 2 gigabit flat rate for $1450/month?
hell 3 racks for $1450/month that sounds good ;) | [02:34] | |
| rendrag | yeah, they left a message, so I called them back from my work phone, and they went through all of that, so I emailed my boss and he pulled the call and then got stuck into our account manager :-p
well, 3 racks * 1450/month, and then transit thrown in.. helps to work there ;) though they tend to throw in 10-20mbit per rack if you order full racks | [02:35] | |
| mercutio | oh it's 1450 per rack
duh | [02:36] | |
| rendrag | (sau don't sell racks that cheap though normally ;) | [02:36] | |
| mercutio | is power on top of that? | [02:37] | |
| rendrag | nah that's included | [02:37] | |
| mercutio | dual feeds? | [02:37] | |
| rendrag | but 13.5Amps which is a little low
yeah dual feeds though | [02:37] | |
| mercutio | that's a lot low
well to really use a rack :) i thought they'd do 15amp i suppose that's 10% head room? | [02:37] | |
| rendrag | yeah I think they do that, to get some head room for their dedicated server racks
using these new supermicro cases doing 12 servers in 3ru they're bloody cool also averaging around 40w per blade | [02:38] | |
| mercutio | how much power?
what's max like? | [02:39] | |
| rendrag | which is freakishly good | [02:39] | |
| mercutio | even that's like 2amps per 3u | [02:39] | |
| rendrag | the dual cpu blades will pull about 120W max
yeah | [02:39] | |
| mercutio | so you could only do like 18u of them | [02:39] | |
| rendrag | though you can't fill a rack with them | [02:39] | |
| mercutio | hence the not enoguh power to fill a rack :) | [02:40] | |
| rendrag | one 3ru microcloud chassis has 12 ipmi ports, and 24 ethernet ports | [02:40] | |
| mercutio | and you're selling them as cheap dedicated servers? | [02:40] | |
| rendrag | yeah we're starting to
they've only just come out of product development | [02:41] | |
| mercutio | ahh
yeah actually now i check out your prices they don't seem so great haha 15gb of bw in your cheap vps :) | [02:41] | |
| rendrag | hah yeah
I need to sit down and do the maths again I priced them back before I moved to SAU and was on 100mbps with my previous workplace the sales manager at work is always like 'dude, push your banwdidth limits etc right up, people don't use anywhere near their quota, so over-quote it!!!' but I'm like 'yeah, but it'd be just my luck I DID say 1tb quota with every VPS, and then I'd sell 20 vps, and they'd ALL do 1tb each!' | [02:43] | |
| mercutio | i was hitting my quota limit on my cheap vultr vm
but i'm doing curl bandwidth tests with smokeping ends up using about 200gb per location hmm that's like 2/3rd of a megabit of bandwidth oh well :) just double them all, it's the easiest non-thinking thing to do you could probably do 10x as much though yeh ... bu tyou might encourage people wanting to torrent etc but you did say you had 2 gigabit of bandwidth... | [02:49] | |
| rendrag | lol yeah
my concern is that should I leave servers someday, that 2 gigabit may not be gratis anymore ;) | [02:56] | |
| mercutio | hmm
yeah, and what's the going price for bandwidth, $15/megabit? | [02:56] | |
| rendrag | so even though i don't pay for it, I work it out at what I know it would cost if I have to
yeah, about that :) | [02:57] | |
| mercutio | i doubt you're doing anything close to 2 gigabit
and at 2 gigabit commit it'd come down :) | [02:57] | |
| rendrag | hahah nothing near it
more like 60mbits | [02:57] | |
| mercutio | so that's like $900/month
maybe less | [02:58] | |
| rendrag | yeah | [02:58] | |
| mercutio | if you can do 95th and you just have some bursts of more
it'll come down further anyway hmm 60 megabit is still quuite a few tb nearly 20tb hmm, i see why you want to check graphs now :) graphs seems to be working again btw | [02:58] | |
| rendrag | cool, changed plans around a little
lol yeah, currently on a 500gb/month vps :-p (I do surprisingly little international traffic) (and most of that is my own torrents LOL) Oh they are back too! | [03:04] | |
| mercutio | yeah australia has poor upload speeds?
sometimes i have peers in australia if i torrent, they never seem to upload at more than like 20k/sec | [03:08] | |
| rendrag | probably more that most australians are stuck on adsl with 256k upload speed ;) | [03:09] | |
| mercutio | wow really | [03:09] | |
| rendrag | yeah, there's some epic congestion
plus teh lines are just really crap | [03:09] | |
| mercutio | vdsl is available here quite oftne
does about 9.5 megabit/sec up i think | [03:09] | |
| rendrag | im' only 3km from the exchange, but I only sync at 6/800 | [03:10] | |
| mercutio | 3km is ages away
i'm about 300 metres :/ | [03:10] | |
| rendrag | and if I upload/download more than about 75% capacity, the line drops every couple of minutes
which is pretty standard haha 3km is good | [03:10] | |
| mercutio | really? | [03:10] | |
| rendrag | most exchanges cover a 20km radius | [03:10] | |
| mercutio | they're doing cabinets here
wow | [03:10] | |
| rendrag | so you'll find rim's everywhere | [03:10] | |
| mercutio | i've been at uhh 6 or 7km
it sucked | [03:10] | |
| rendrag | where there's a rim, it's 8 or 16 adsl lines on a 8mbps backhaul to the exchange | [03:10] | |
| mercutio | eww ;/
yeah i read something on whirlpool about that ;/ | [03:11] | |
| rendrag | or you might get a large rim (48 adsl ports), that they've upgraded to 600mbps instead (there's four fibres to each rim, they'll either be 2mbps each, or 155mbps each)
and ou're sharing that bandwidth with phone calls too | [03:11] | |
| mercutio | so it's still atm? | [03:11] | |
| rendrag | so there might be 500 phones lines into a rim, and there's 8, 16, or 48 dsl ports for them | [03:12] | |
| mercutio | lame
yeah i heard that internet is prett ybad there but i thought local loop unbundling was helping things a bit | [03:12] | |
| rendrag | problem is, ULL only works if you're NOT on a rim | [03:12] | |
| mercutio | for some reason they're pushing for 200 megabit down here | [03:13] | |
| rendrag | and if the exchange is open for other providers | [03:13] | |
| mercutio | it's kind of weird | [03:13] | |
| rendrag | for example, the exchange I'm on (gorokan) is the largest single DA in australia | [03:13] | |
| mercutio | 5 years ago i had 10 megabit down | [03:13] | |
| rendrag | and there's no other providers in the exchange
so the only choice is telstra | [03:13] | |
| mercutio | then it jumped to about 20 megabit | [03:13] | |
| rendrag | haha yeah
NZ seems really good | [03:13] | |
| mercutio | and now people are all getting 200 megabit?
ewll if in fibre area | [03:13] | |
| rendrag | my previous work, we had 10mbps EFM into each office, which was the fastest we could get at all | [03:14] | |
| mercutio | my house doesnt' get fibre until 2019
i've got vdsl+adsl | [03:14] | |
| rendrag | our NZ office when they moved, we were told 'oh, Snap have gear in the building, phone them' | [03:14] | |
| mercutio | upgrading the backup adsl connection to vdsl too | [03:14] | |
| rendrag | I phone snap, and we get 100mbps fibre for like $1k a month
where as our 10/10 EFM services in .au, we were paying $2500 a pop for | [03:14] | |
| mercutio | you can do gpon often
heh dark fibre prices have come way down you can do 10 gigabit really cheap using dark fibre | [03:14] | |
| rendrag | GPON is what they're doing for the NBN over here | [03:15] | |
| mercutio | think it's $350/end or something
yeah you can get point to point non dark fibre too | [03:15] | |
| rendrag | only the govt screwed it in the last election, and instead of fibre to the house, most of the country is now going to get fibre to the node | [03:15] | |
| mercutio | yeah i saw that :) | [03:15] | |
| rendrag | so i have a cabinet 3 blocks away which I'll be able to get vdsl to
they reckon i'll get 35mbps down but like | [03:15] | |
| mercutio | i saw someone saying about how they doing everything wrong | [03:16] | |
| rendrag | if you order a second service | [03:16] | |
| mercutio | and shouldn't do qos etc | [03:16] | |
| rendrag | you don't get a second VDSL | [03:16] | |
| mercutio | should keep things simple | [03:16] | |
| rendrag | you only ever get that ONE vdsl
if you order extra services, they're just delivered as extra ethernet ports off the same NTU rendrag sighs | [03:16] | |
| mercutio | oh what
they're still doing that ntu shit? how lame can they do vdsl bonding? are they still charging like $20/megabit for domestic backhaul ? that's what seemed to me the most scary part like what's the point of having a fast pipe if you pay shit loads for local traffic over it and when you charge more for domestic than international it's just crazy which means people will all want to cap how quickly people can do stuff etc block netflix as bandwidth intensive etc | [03:16] | |
| rendrag | man, to get $20/mbit you have to buy a LOT of transit
but the worst bit | [03:19] | |
| mercutio | and when it's lke $20 megabit then peak time with movies and stuff is extra scary | [03:19] | |
| rendrag | on the NBN, there's 121 POI's
(points of interconnect) | [03:19] | |
| mercutio | oh it's more than $20/megabit on nbn?
yeah that's why internode got sold? | [03:20] | |
| rendrag | to service everyone in australia, an ISP has to have gear in every POI | [03:20] | |
| mercutio | someone should start doing their own fibre network :) | [03:20] | |
| rendrag | and you can't do your own fibre at a POI
you have to pay NBN to backhaul to the capital city for that state | [03:20] | |
| mercutio | why not? | [03:20] | |
| rendrag | at $45/mbit
err 35/mbit | [03:20] | |
| mercutio | what
oh it's 35/mbit i mean seriously that's not even appropriate for adsl | [03:20] | |
| rendrag | it's like wtf, it's private backhaul, it's not even trasnit or anything | [03:21] | |
| mercutio | let alone faster network connections | [03:21] | |
| rendrag | meanwhile NBN are trying to tell consumers that they can buy 100mbps NBN for $80/month | [03:21] | |
| mercutio | people are going to have 100 megabit fibre with 100gb data caps
or peak time rate limits of 2 megabit | [03:21] | |
| rendrag | yeah, there's already TIO disputes about it | [03:21] | |
| mercutio | i mean $3.50/megabit is pushing it | [03:22] | |
| rendrag | 'I USED MY WHOLE QUOTA IN AN HOUR, AND THEN THEY CHARGED ME A DOLLAR A GIGABYTE!!' | [03:22] | |
| mercutio | but $35 | [03:22] | |
| rendrag | yeah, like NBN should be a whole order of magnitude bigger than megaport intercap | [03:22] | |
| mercutio | heh there's been congestion issues here recently a bit
as bandwidth usage is climbing | [03:22] | |
| rendrag | yet it's stupidly more expensive than megaport | [03:23] | |
| mercutio | it used to be really bad here
but ever since the atm -> ethernet migration things have been a lot better | [03:23] | |
| rendrag | ahh nice | [03:23] | |
| mercutio | i mean there's occasional issues
but there used to be 5 to 10% packet loss at peak time all the time | [03:23] | |
| rendrag | oh wow | [03:23] | |
| mercutio | yeah made it hard to use the net
started getting worse and worse, was bad at 4 pm even got better around midnight and of course torrents were fine | [03:23] | |
| rendrag | my dsl is so bad here, that i actually run 3g as a backup, run PPTP over both ADSL and 3g, and MPLS+OSPF over the top with a 2 second timeout on the session over the adsl tunnel | [03:24] | |
| mercutio | because they used heaps of connections
but web browsing sucked wow | [03:24] | |
| rendrag | and just throw all my traffic via the data center :-p | [03:25] | |
| mercutio | how much data do you get with 4g? | [03:25] | |
| rendrag | otherwise the internet is unusable for 2-3 mins every 30 mins
none it's $10/gb :-p | [03:25] | |
| mercutio | err 3g even
wow | [03:25] | |
| rendrag | I use a data sharing sim off my company mobile account | [03:25] | |
| mercutio | is it high loss or high latency? | [03:25] | |
| rendrag | so we have three mobiles with 6gb each, which is all shared
so most of the time it doesn't cost me anything | [03:25] | |
| mercutio | i've been thinking about hacking together some stuff to mitigate against issues over the top of normal ip | [03:25] | |
| rendrag | depends on the time of day, and whether I have 4g recpeption
if the weather is good, it sits on 4g, and then it's ~30msec with no loss | [03:26] | |
| mercutio | and to do joining of two dsl connections at the IP level
rather than ppp bonding | [03:26] | |
| rendrag | if it drops to 3g, then i'm with all the plebs on their 3g dongles, and then it sucks with 300msec latency
telstra has two networks, 3g and 4g | [03:26] | |
| mercutio | ie be able to get faster throughput with 2 connections at once | [03:26] | |
| rendrag | their wholesalers only get access to 3g | [03:26] | |
| mercutio | lame | [03:27] | |
| rendrag | 4g is telstra retail only | [03:27] | |
| mercutio | maybe you can get better antenna?
there's no 4g here :( | [03:27] | |
| rendrag | yeah I should do that, haven't really looked at it much yet
nbn is meant to be here in september so i've been dragging my feet a bit | [03:27] | |
| mercutio | ahh
is that vdsl nbn for you? | [03:27] | |
| rendrag | when nbn comes in, i'll order a tail through work, and terminate it straight to my lns
yeah vdsl | [03:27] | |
| mercutio | cool | [03:28] | |
| rendrag | ends up as an ethernet port from their MTU, which I do pppoe over
s/M/N | [03:28] | |
| BryceBot | <rendrag> ends up as an ethernet port from their NTU, which I do pppoe over | [03:28] | |
| mercutio | can't you just run straight ip over it? | [03:28] | |
| rendrag | hahahahah that's cool
you'd think so, but no that'd make too much sense | [03:28] | |
| mercutio | qinq? | [03:28] | |
| rendrag | we had the same back in 2005'ish with 'TransAct', which was the canberra fibre network | [03:29] | |
| mercutio | why go with pppoe still? | [03:29] | |
| rendrag | and was suposed to be one HUGE ethernet network with 10/8 on it
and then you'd bring up a PPTP/L2TP tunnel to an ISP then nortel went bust at the last minute, and it all fell apart | [03:29] | |
| mercutio | damn
so will you get the tail delivered via l2tp or pppoe? | [03:29] | |
| rendrag | I'm not sure, I think they decided then it'd be plug and play from ADSL, you'd unplug your adsl modem from your router, and plug in the NBN NTU, and it'd 'just work'
I'm not sure, seems to be PPPOE | [03:29] | |
| mercutio | so you do pppoe on a vlan to them | [03:30] | |
| rendrag | one of the guys at work had his NBN installe the other day, and he just unplugged one of his ADSL modems (he has three lines doing OSPF over them), and plugged into the NTU, and bingo, his PPPOE session just came up | [03:30] | |
| mercutio | they do l2tp or pppoe to nbn or whatever | [03:30] | |
| rendrag | nah, they have four ethernet ports | [03:30] | |
| mercutio | i mean when it terminates on your network | [03:31] | |
| rendrag | OH | [03:31] | |
| mercutio | i don't care about the ntu | [03:31] | |
| rendrag | yeah ends up as l2tp from work's LNS | [03:31] | |
| mercutio | you can probably stick your own vdsl modem on
and just ignore their whole shit | [03:31] | |
| rendrag | yeah I'lll see
NBN makes it a bit dicky cause their NTU has four ethernet ports, and two phone ports | [03:31] | |
| mercutio | it's about $80 for a vdsl modem here
probably about the same there then normal vdsl modem can just do bridging | [03:31] | |
| rendrag | with in-built VOIP, that's all auto-configured via the NBN provisioning stuff | [03:32] | |
| mercutio | and you can still terminate on linux
without their weird shit you don't need their voip stuff though? | [03:32] | |
| rendrag | if you order services from multiple ISP's, the API call to NBNco just comes back saying 'complete, ask custome to connect to ethernet 3' | [03:32] | |
| mercutio | hmm | [03:32] | |
| rendrag | Host Loss% Snt Last Avg Best Wrst StDev
1. 192.168.11.1 0.0% 5089 1.0 0.7 0.6 12.8 0.4 2. 192.168.13.2 0.2% 5089 28.4 27.8 18.8 99.4 3.4 192.168.13.3 3. core-rtr-01-vlan49.syd01.nsw.ren 0.1% 5089 28.9 28.3 19.2 91.5 3.0 4. rtr02.syd01.nsw.rendrag.net.au 0.1% 5089 30.6 28.9 21.4 72.4 2.7 5. po112.310.bdr-1-3-new.servercont 0.2% 5089 31.5 29.5 21.6 80.8 2.9 | [03:32] | |
| mercutio | what if you run hard both connections at once | [03:33] | |
| rendrag | oh look, I must have fallen over to 3g for a while there | [03:33] | |
| mercutio | and complain that one is going slow? | [03:33] | |
| rendrag | haha not sure
noone has FTTN yet my suburb is the first in .au | [03:33] | |
| mercutio | oh
why do they call it fttn? why not just call it vdsl? | [03:33] | |
| rendrag | fibre to the node | [03:33] | |
| mercutio | i know | [03:33] | |
| rendrag | they don't want to tell people it's just *dsl
cause all hell would break loose | [03:34] | |
| mercutio | god | [03:34] | |
| rendrag | when the current govt got voted in, they cancelled all planned works for the NBN the next day | [03:34] | |
| mercutio | can llu do vdsl too?
yeah it was ick | [03:34] | |
| rendrag | and the country just about exploded | [03:34] | |
| mercutio | i mean i don't like how it's going in nz | [03:34] | |
| rendrag | so they very quickly went 'Oh, we're going to do this FTTN trial, these 20 places are going on the trial, we just paid telstra $8b to do it!' | [03:34] | |
| mercutio | but i look at australia and it's so much worse | [03:34] | |
| rendrag | yeah i can, but you need to be within like 2km of the exchange, and have a VDSL provider in the exchange | [03:35] | |
| mercutio | yeah has anyone taken them to court yet? | [03:35] | |
| rendrag | I don't think there really is any though | [03:35] | |
| mercutio | it's obviously some kind of insider thing | [03:35] | |
| rendrag | VDSL is mostly used in big apartment buildings where someone like TPG or PIPE or someone pulls fibre into the building, then puts VDSL into the basement | [03:35] | |
| mercutio | yeah
who wants to live in an apartment building though | [03:35] | |
| rendrag | we have EoC/EFM/BDSL, where they bond 2-8 pairs together to give you up to 10mbps symmetrical, but you have to be within like 1km of the exchange
haha yeah | [03:36] | |
| mercutio | what upload speed are they doing on vdsl? | [03:36] | |
| rendrag | I'm not sure | [03:36] | |
| mercutio | because my connection could do over 30 megabit/sec
but it's being capped at 10 and that's PTM 10... so has high overhead and from what i recall australia is even more into senselessly limiting upload speed for no good reason | [03:37] | |
| rendrag | yeah, a lot of times, if an exchange is congested, telstra's 'fix' is to limit everyone to 8/1 during peak hours
or more often, 8/256k | [03:39] | |
| mercutio | haha
why limit the upload? i doubt the upload is the issue | [03:40] | |
| rendrag | haha i have no idea
it's annoying our internet is totally dead whenever we plug an iphone into power to charge as it starts backing up or uploading photos lol | [03:41] | |
| mercutio | i noticed a HUGE difference jumping from 1 to 10 megabit | [03:41] | |
| rendrag | i've now put all our iDevices into their own /28 which is limimited to 30k/sec upload | [03:41] | |
| mercutio | yeah
that stuff is way better at 10 megabit than 1 megabit skype video calls used to saturate my 1 megabit upload i'm using fq_codel now though | [03:41] | |
| rendrag | oh, yeah totally | [03:42] | |
| mercutio | have you tried that? | [03:42] | |
| rendrag | nope? | [03:42] | |
| mercutio | i get like 1 msec jitter if that
even if i use connection fully it's an aqm (active queue management) algoritham for limiting speeds | [03:42] | |
| rendrag | ooooh | [03:43] | |
| mercutio | it uses head drop rather than tail drop
so you don't even with a whole lot of stale data in the queue | [03:43] | |
| rendrag | rendrag reads | [03:43] | |
| mercutio | for ethernet etc you just have to tc qdisc add dev eth0 root fq_codel
but if you have dsl or such you need to limit bandwidth first | [03:44] | |
| rendrag | ahh yeah | [03:44] | |
| mercutio | it's the same as doing sfq basically
but it works better than sfq so you can basically s/sfq/fq_codel/ hmm i'm surprised the bot didn't "fix" that for me | [03:44] | |
| rendrag | lol | [03:45] | |
| mercutio | i've got it at both sides of my dsl though | [03:45] | |
| rendrag | hahahah
man | [03:46] | |
| mercutio | but yeah if you're terminating nbn you could do it on both sides | [03:46] | |
| rendrag | i had NOT thought of lmiting it at the other end | [03:46] | |
| BryceBot | That's what she said!! | [03:46] | |
| mercutio | well it hepls for download :) | [03:46] | |
| rendrag | yeah
woudl stop my 'dsl dies at 75% capacity' problem LOL | [03:46] | |
| mercutio | do you control both ends? | [03:46] | |
| rendrag | rendrag puts on todo list for tomorrow | [03:46] | |
| mercutio | most people don't ;) | [03:46] | |
| rendrag | yeah I PPTP to one of my routers | [03:46] | |
| mercutio | oh | [03:46] | |
| rendrag | PPTP over both ADSL and 3g | [03:46] | |
| mercutio | oh right | [03:47] | |
| rendrag | so my internet just keeps going if the adsl drops out
;) | [03:47] | |
| mercutio | so yeah you could do it at the pptp end
why are you doing pptp? :) | [03:47] | |
| rendrag | because this crappy little 4g dongle doesnt pass any other tunelling protocol ;) | [03:47] | |
| mercutio | oh
ok that's lame | [03:47] | |
| rendrag | and my adsl is still in contract with telstra
november and it's out of contract | [03:48] | |
| mercutio | and sau don't sell dsl? | [03:48] | |
| rendrag | then if the nbn isn't in, I'll port it over to work | [03:48] | |
| mercutio | oh they do?
so you could do l2tp to your network of both adsl ane nbn? and | [03:48] | |
| rendrag | yeah they do
yeah I could lol | [03:49] | |
| mercutio | i've been playing with accel-ppp on linux for l2tp termination
it does pppoe etc too though. but fq_codel is only on linux so far, it's meant to be coming to os x though | [03:49] | |
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| grody | L2TP should work, if it doesn't, run the LNS on port 53 :>
most of our mobile carriers are the same here, only allow TCP/UDP | [06:22] | |
| rendrag | haha | [06:23] | |
| grody | there is one that does allow passing of RAW IP though | [06:23] | |
| rendrag | nah was more that the 3g dongle's nat is VERY basic
it's linux on a stick that presents an LTE interface to the device it's plugged into | [06:23] | |
| grody | ooh nice | [06:23] | |
| rendrag | I managed to hack it's filesystem around enough to change the subnet it was using on the LTE interface back to my mikrotik
it's quite buggy though needs power cycling about every 4 days | [06:24] | |
| grody | i have a hilink like that... displays a virtual ethernet adaptor to which you DHCP to (and NATs on dongle) | [06:24] | |
| rendrag | but I have a script setup for that now | [06:24] | |
| grody | pain in the royal | [06:24] | |
| rendrag | if it can't ping the router at the DC for 60 seconds, it does a USB reset
i wish telstra would let us wholesale 4g on 3g, it comes up up and authenticates to L2TP as the IMEI of the card | [06:24] | |
| grody | MVNO'ing here is quite simple to acquire | [06:25] | |
| rendrag | so we can drop them right into customer VRF's which is sexy as hell | [06:25] | |
| grody | oooh | [06:25] | |
| rendrag | there's something kinda cool about being able to ping the GPS nav in your car, from your lounge room lol | [06:27] | |
| grody | my ISP offer a wholesaled 3G service that does something similar, they can hand off the connection to your own L2TP
that way you can route all your 3G via your own network, give it whatever IPs you like etc. | [06:27] | |
| rendrag | nice yeah :) | [06:27] | |
| grody | never gotten it to work pfSense' L2TP server mind
xl2tpd it was easy | [06:28] | |
| rendrag | haha
maybe pfSense's one is as finnicky as RouterOS's | [06:28] | |
| grody | i think it's the shared key issue
pfsense and their choices dont logically matchh | [06:29] | |
| rendrag | yeah
RouterOS, you have to have the upstream LNS turn off key's and have RouterOS purely auth by IP address | [06:29] | |
| grody | i miss my old routerboard | [06:29] | |
| rendrag | (auth the upstrem LNS, that is) | [06:29] | |
| grody | used to swear by that thing on dual adsl w/ a eDOCSIS too | [06:30] | |
| rendrag | hah nice | [06:30] | |
| grody | RB750 - three lines got me about 28mbps max (and would soon start to cause the thing to flap) | [06:30] | |
| rendrag | hahah yeah
you'd be pushing the routing limit on it if you were bonding | [06:31] | |
| grody | now im cheap-skate and use an openwrt and pfsense
hmm.. gftp being weird.. just went to download a 2,003,075,125 KB file, it's now at 3,721,121,023 tranferred :/ it's gonna be one these days /me thinks | [06:33] | |
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| mercutio | is pfsense using mpd? | [07:02] | |
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| grody | for l2tp, yea
it uses mpd for pretty much any kind of PPP like link iirc pptp, l2tp, ppp(oe/oa) if FreeBSD moved away from netgraph_pppoe, things might get better it is sooo behind | [07:27] | |
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| mkb | come on google... it's not funny
"When you have eliminated the JavaScript, whatever remains must be an empty page." and a picture of sherlock holmes | [10:49] | |
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| hazardous | why is itn ot funny? | [13:00] | |
| mkb | because it should work perfectly fine without JavaScript | [13:02] | |
| staticsafe | what are you referring to | [13:03] | |
| hazardous | sites use javascript now, that's just a way of life
js is fine. imo the biggest joke is meteorjs sites that actually push all html through websocket | [13:05] | |
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| kellytk | I'm developing a website currently and it will work without JS, with the JS only adding to the experience | [13:30] | |
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| mike-burns | I find JS Web sites hard to use. | [14:13] | |
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| mercutio | i think the web in general is hard to use :)
There's so many sites each with their own layout that often it's less predictable than it should be to figure out where things are. even big sites, like amazon, it can be hard to figure out how to message them for support although i wonder if they do that on purpose | [15:13] | |
| brycec | So Gopher or die? :P | [15:17] | |
| mike-burns | I feel that way, too. | [15:18] | |
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| kellytk | mike-burns: What do you find hard to use? | [15:43] | |
| mike-burns | Unique widgets, anything besides my default typeface and font size, divs that pretend to be text areas (but see also: unique widgets), AJAX POSTs, any network activity that I do not initiate myself, any network activity that the browser does not indicate progress for.
In general, anything that breaks the HTTP model, and anything that changes the widgets. | [15:46] | |
| brycec | You must really hate HTML5+JS' ability to define custom elements then :P | [15:48] | |
| mike-burns | Yup. | [15:48] | |
| kellytk | mike-burns: Would you explain what you mean by "AJAX POSTs"? Given the context I think you're referring to background data requests that don't cause the page to reload? | [15:49] | |
| mike-burns | Yes, that. | [15:49] | |
| kellytk | I think those are excellent points | [15:50] | |
| brycec | (I figured "AJAX" was pretty self-explanatory in that context :p) | [15:50] | |
| hazardous | to be quite fair, "i don't want to use any font face and size but my own" starts to get a bit unreasonable
at that point you'd just want no images either and browse gopher or something | [15:57] | |
| mike-burns | I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for a text that I can physically read. | [15:58] | |
| mercutio | I've noticed a hute shift to Sans Serif fonts.. | [16:01] | |
| kellytk | mercutio: The reason that's given for this, is that serifs do not render well on computer screens, as they do on paper. Therefore they become more of a hiderance than benefit | [16:03] | |
| mercutio | Oh? | [16:03] | |
| kellytk | I studied type and newspaper design when building a product (http://pulscene.com) | [16:04] | |
| mercutio | I don't think Comic Sans is nice to read. | [16:04] | |
| hazardous | i haven't seen anywhere use comic sans non-ironic/sarcastically | [16:04] | |
| mercutio | I find that Serif'ed text seems easier to read when there's a lot of it
hazardous: it's pretty popular if you get some random black+white advert in your letterbox from some small business or such it's likely to use comic sans | [16:04] | |
| mike-burns | In OpenBSD slides. | [16:05] | |
| hazardous | what the hell | [16:05] | |
| mercutio | oh yeh that was weid mike | [16:06] | |
| hazardous | that's probably the last place i'd expect that | [16:06] | |
| mercutio | but they're bloody huge and slow and ick aynway :/ | [16:06] | |
| mike-burns | They do it for the lulz. | [16:06] | |
| mercutio | grr
undeadly can't go to previous pages
that's what older stuff links to query=* ? :) yesterday works http://quigon.bsws.de/papers/2015/asiabsdcon/mgp00001.html this is the slide stuff that i was th inking of | [16:07] | |
| mike-burns | Yes exactly. | [16:10] | |
| mercutio | does that load really slowly for you? | [16:10] | |
| mike-burns | Yes. | [16:10] | |
| mercutio | ok so it's not just me ;) | [16:11] | |
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