[00:11] *** m0unds__ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) [00:13] *** m0unds_ has joined #arpnetworks [01:35] *** LT has joined #arpnetworks [01:59] *** b^_^d has quit IRC (*.net *.split) [01:59] *** dwarren has quit IRC (*.net *.split) [02:01] *** b^_^d has joined #arpnetworks [02:01] *** dwarren has joined #arpnetworks [06:22] *** plett has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) [06:40] *** plett has joined #arpnetworks [06:47] *** toeshred has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [06:54] But not for long, 5.8 has disklabel templating :D [06:55] of course that only works on the initial install... [07:18] on BSD you have to resize the old fashioned way: dump, newfs, restore [07:32] *** toeshred has joined #arpnetworks [09:44] *** LT has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) [10:59] not freebsd zfs [10:59] it'll recognize larger disk [11:49] *** b^_^d has quit IRC (*.net *.split) [11:49] *** dwarren has quit IRC (*.net *.split) [11:49] *** hazardous has quit IRC (*.net *.split) [11:49] *** NiTeMaRe has quit IRC (*.net *.split) [11:49] *** meingtsla has quit IRC (*.net *.split) [11:50] *** hazardous has joined #arpnetworks [11:50] *** meingtsla has joined #arpnetworks [11:51] *** b^_^d has joined #arpnetworks [11:51] *** dwarren has joined #arpnetworks [11:52] *** NiTeMaRe has joined #arpnetworks [12:20] *** hazardous has quit IRC (*.net *.split) [12:20] *** hazardous has joined #arpnetworks [12:27] brycec: disklabel templating/ [12:28] oh to say how much to use of partitions etc [13:41] yeah [14:02] yeah i saw discussions about the autoinstall stuff on the mailing list. [14:11] i wonder if some lvm type solution is going to come to openbsd [14:12] Is that different from bioctl? [14:12] (I don't actually know.) [14:12] lvm is about sub volumes [14:13] that you can resize at runtime [14:13] Ah. [14:13] so you can allocate various amounts of space, but change them later. [14:13] bioctl is about managing raid systems [14:14] lvm is the kind of layer that it seems to make most sense to implement "cache" devices too [14:14] Heh, the misc@ thread where someone asked about lvm for OBSD mentions Arpnetworks. [14:14] http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=132100433813215&w=2 [14:14] openbsd-misc: "Re: similar lvm tool on openbsd??" from carlopmart @ 2011-11-11 9:35:23 [14:15] heh [14:16] Aren't zfs volumes roughly equivalent to LVM LVs? [14:16] plett: not really [14:16] you can fix the same issue [14:16] but zfs is kind of a much bigger more complicated solution [14:17] i'm not a huge fan of lvm, but it is convenient [14:17] softraid(4)? [14:17] softraid last i knew was just joing 2 or more partitions to form a pretend partition [14:17] softraid would be md raid in Linux [14:17] it doesn't do chunking [14:18] some raid systems do support doing it there though [14:23] anyone taken freebsd 8 to 9? [14:23] I'm reading the release notes... doesn't look too crazy. [14:36] the 9.3 install notes make it appear I can go direct from 8.4 to 9.3 [14:36] I'll have to rewrite some of my rc.conf for networking eventually though [14:36] maybe even soon [14:37] (IIRC softraid also incorporates some cryptsetup-type stuff, comparing OpenBSD and Linux-isms) [14:37] RandalSchwartz: I did... years ago :p [15:07] *** himuraken has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [15:09] well, I'm practicing with a scratch box before doing a real box. :) [15:10] going to 9.3 first, since the EOL of both 9.3 and 10.1 are the same. [15:58] wow ... "Preparing to download files..." is taking forever [16:07] ok.. movement now [16:07] "fetching 8763 files"... hehe [16:31] freebsd-update install... no turning back now. [16:43] kernel updated, now updating userland [16:44] yeh it's pretty slow [16:44] well - changing a lot of files [16:44] are you going to upgrade to 10 afterwards? [16:44] no point just yet [16:44] ok [16:44] since EOL of 9 and 10 are the same [16:45] I try to take minimal risk steps [16:45] I have 6 systems I have to do this to. :) [16:45] yip [16:45] i feel the same way about important systems [16:45] if only I was a linux lover, I could use CoreOS for all this :) [16:45] but non-important i like to be bleeding edge :) [16:45] i haven't checked out coreos yet, someone else was mentioning that i should look at it [16:46] maybe me. :) [16:46] nah it was someone i know in real life :) [16:46] i love it how you go to coreos.com and it doesn't tell you what it does :) [16:47] my strategy for this was: install 8.4 on scratch box. build 8.4 packages from our current origins and options. upgrade to 9.3 (happening now). build 9.3 packages. [16:47] ahh overview [16:47] once all that is done, take a live box, upgrade 8.4 to 9.3, and install my 9.3 packages. [16:47] if that works, proceed 5 more times. :) [16:47] yeh it's much messier than it should be. [16:48] you can't just upgrade ready to go to a new zfs mount point [16:48] check it's all working fine then swap over to it [16:48] then roll back if it doesn't work out leaving the old system in place [16:48] yeah, I'm planning on installing beadm someday soon [16:48] that would effectively do that [16:49] cool [16:50] ... http://www.freshports.org/sysutils/beadm/ [16:51] ... http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/%2Absd-17/howto-zfs-madness-beadm-on-freebsd-4175412036/ [16:52] uhh this is just like what i was saying ? :) [17:10] 9.3 up and running! now building the 9.3 poudriere [17:11] so glad I found out and started using poudriere [17:11] building individual ports on each machine seemed nuts :) [17:14] 696 packages to build [17:19] is this true? : curl is 17 years old and maintained by one person [17:19] much outside help [17:19] sounds likely [17:19] I interviewed him for floss [17:19] he's only recently being paid to work on it too [17:20] i mean being able to work on it at his day job [17:20] i think much humbleness too [17:20] found it http://twit.tv/show/floss-weekly/51 [17:20] as I recall, he reminded me of richard hipp [17:20] sqlite and fossil [17:20] 17 years ago is about when there was heaps of new projects that went somewhere [17:21] randal: as in the dos fossil drivers? [17:21] no... fossil the SCM [17:21] oh [17:21] ... http://twit.tv/show/floss-weekly/320 [17:21] mnathani_: postfix was written/maintained by one guy for nearly 17 years too. [17:22] again some outside help [17:22] open source is good like that :) [17:22] but the postfix author always impressed me with his dedication [17:22] if a user is confused by something, he blames the system [17:23] as being too complicated [17:23] the ntp code is maintained by one guy [17:23] postfix is wietse, right? [17:23] a lot of things are easier with one guy [17:23] randal: yeh [17:24] same guy who did some security tester [17:24] he seems impressive [17:24] but now arrogant [17:24] met him some years ago [17:24] oh... right... he did crack [17:24] what? [17:24] RandalSchwartz: are you actively using vagrant? [17:24] my name is in the crack manual [17:24] oh not the drug [17:24] the password brute force [17:24] heh [17:25] at the very moment, no. [17:25] but earlier today yes [17:25] $client requires it for dev env [17:25] what [17:25] hope to move to docker soon [17:25] what hypervisor are you using it with? [17:25] witese moved from ibm to google [17:25] does that mean postfix is going to the dark side? [17:25] virtualbox [17:25] (when did google become more evil than ibm?) [17:25] osx hosts? or linux [17:25] osx [17:26] I recently started using it with windows host and virtualbox [17:26] works on linux now? [17:26] vagrantup.com has binaries for deb and rpm so probably [17:26] wow [17:27] times, they a changin' [17:27] have you considered bringing in the developer: Mitchell Hashimoto for a floss show? [17:28] who is that? [17:28] and what project? [17:28] the vagrant author [17:28] i assume it's vagrant [17:28] because he was jusut talking about vagrant :) [17:28] oh... that'd be cool. [17:28] email him, tell him to email me. [17:29] will do [17:29] ... Since version 1.6, Vagrant natively supports Docker containers, which serve as a substitute for a fully virtualized operating system. [17:29] ooooh [17:29] oooh ooh oh [17:29] too bad that's just for linux [17:29] why isn't there a freebsd docker? [17:29] jails were the inspiration for LXC [17:30] i thought openvz would be the inspiriation [17:31] and linux-vserver [17:31] .. http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/127001/linux-lxc-vs-freebsd-jail [17:32] wikipedia never seems ot make it easy to find out when projects start :( [17:32] linux-vserver oct 2001 [17:33] jails started in freebsd 4.0 in 2001 [17:33] 2000 [17:33] hmm [17:33] darn it.. you typed 2001 just as I was trying to type 2000, and my brain rewrote it [17:33] heh [17:33] damn whenever i try and track when things started i feel older :/ [17:33] here's a history: http://www.cybera.ca/news-and-events/tech-radar/contain-your-enthusiasm-part-two-jails-zones-openvz-and-lxc/ [17:34] chroot is older of course [17:34] sure... [17:34] the other article talks about that. [17:40] *** himuraken has joined #arpnetworks [18:28] mercutio: for awhile now maybe a year? [18:28] dec/2014 [18:29] damn what did i ask? [18:29] august 2014 actually [18:29] solusvm ipv6 subnet [18:30] oh dec 2014 is pretty late. [18:30] even 2014 is pretty late [18:30] ya [18:30] took them awhile [18:30] from what i've seen of solusvm ipv6 seems like bad idea [18:31] it works pretty well now, even got ebtables working nicely with it [18:32] i only use KVM with it not xen/whatever else though so i'm not sure about other virts [18:32] they tend to spam the network with heaps of nd/arp [18:32] it's ironic that arp doesn't have arp issues :) [18:33] lol [18:33] like choose a random vm someewhere cheap on lowendbox say [18:33] then do tcpdump -p -l -n -i eth0 ! port 22 on an idle server [18:33] and there'll be like 250arp/sec etc often [18:33] and lots of other crap [18:33] if you have 20 servers, that's 5000arp/sec... [18:34] ya [18:34] linux 4.1 is bringing a new cpu thing to linux for kvm where it can bsaically stop the kernel running while it's ruunning a vm [18:34] but even if arp's are reasonably cheap to process they "wake up" the cpu a lot [18:34] and thrash cpu caches etc. [18:35] it's just one of many virtualisation issues though [18:35] i should read up about 4.1 [18:36] haven't done it yet [18:36] and it seems likely that intel cpus will just make context switches cheaper or divide cache better or such [18:36] i wouldn't worry too much yet. [18:36] there's nothing earth-shattering. [18:37] like the kvm optimisation is nice, but it's not going to make a /huge/ difference [18:37] it's more in getting closer and closer to 0 overhead for cpu bound tasks [18:38] and where kvm seems to struggle more is disk/network [18:38] it's like upgrading the cpu on a disk bound database server. [18:38] it may make some fast things faster, but it won't stop "slowness" [18:39] bottlenecking :P [18:39] yeah once people start doing 10 gigabit more they'll notice kvm's network issues more. [18:40] it's kind of cpu hungry at gigabit, and struggles a bit with high udp loads. [18:40] steve gibson calls that the background radiation of the net [18:40] - EXT4 now supports file-system level encryption after being a feature driven by Google for Android. [18:40] that will be nice [18:40] nite: are you really going to trust ext4 encryption on initial realease? [18:40] release [18:41] no [18:41] it will be nice once it is developed though [18:41] i still want lz4 compression on ext4, xfs etc. [18:41] i've started shifting from ext4 to xfs. [18:41] i've been wanting to play around with btrfs [18:41] i tried lzo compression with btrfs, but btrfs is just too unstable, even for non-crtical systems. [18:42] it is still unstable? [18:42] yeah [18:42] i saw opensuse implemented it native [18:42] well it depends, it's unstable using it as / [18:42] on a ssd with a small partition [18:42] well it was ssd raid, but same diff [18:42] opensuse implemented reiserfs native too [18:42] interesting [18:43] i used to use reiserfs for squid [18:43] but i never trusted it with critical data. [18:43] you've played around with bhyve much? [18:43] nah not yet [18:44] freebsd is too unstable for me to dare :) [18:44] i love freebsd [18:44] I'm presuming once I get my ARP box to 10.x I can use bhyve [18:44] my DigitalOcean 10.x box can't do it [18:44] freebsd is ok as long as you tread lightly [18:44] but i'm just too paranoid about a system that can't deal with 9k mtu's without running out of memory [18:44] ZFS on / for the win [18:45] basically their memory allocator gets fragmented and spaz's [18:45] it's ok if you use 2k mtu [18:45] there's some other weird stuff too [18:51] I fly out to Texas Sunday and I still have 0 packed [18:51] should probly get on that [18:56] heh i never pack in advance [18:56] i always think i /should/ pack in advance [19:01] if you pack afterward, it's not as effective. [19:01] lots of loose things on the security belt [19:13] lol [19:28] you drag the six plastic tubs with you to the plane. :) [19:31] i just bring a dolly and my dresser [19:33] a garry dolly? [19:33] haha [19:34] i don't think up_the_irons would want to carry my dresser around [19:35] heh