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toeshred has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) brycec: But not for long, 5.8 has disklabel templating :D
of course that only works on the initial install... mkb: on BSD you have to resize the old fashioned way: dump, newfs, restore ***: toeshred has joined #arpnetworks
LT has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) RandalSchwartz: not freebsd zfs
it'll recognize larger disk ***: b^_^d has quit IRC (*.net *.split)
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hazardous has joined #arpnetworks mercutio: brycec: disklabel templating/
oh to say how much to use of partitions etc brycec: yeah mercutio: yeah i saw discussions about the autoinstall stuff on the mailing list.
i wonder if some lvm type solution is going to come to openbsd mike-burns: Is that different from bioctl?
(I don't actually know.) mercutio: lvm is about sub volumes
that you can resize at runtime mike-burns: Ah. mercutio: so you can allocate various amounts of space, but change them later.
bioctl is about managing raid systems
lvm is the kind of layer that it seems to make most sense to implement "cache" devices too mike-burns: Heh, the misc@ thread where someone asked about lvm for OBSD mentions Arpnetworks.
http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=132100433813215&w=2 BryceBot: openbsd-misc: "Re: similar lvm tool on openbsd??" from carlopmart <carlopmart () gmail ! com> @ 2011-11-11 9:35:23 mercutio: heh plett: Aren't zfs volumes roughly equivalent to LVM LVs? mercutio: plett: not really
you can fix the same issue
but zfs is kind of a much bigger more complicated solution
i'm not a huge fan of lvm, but it is convenient mike-burns: softraid(4)? mercutio: softraid last i knew was just joing 2 or more partitions to form a pretend partition plett: softraid would be md raid in Linux mercutio: it doesn't do chunking
some raid systems do support doing it there though RandalSchwartz: anyone taken freebsd 8 to 9?
I'm reading the release notes... doesn't look too crazy.
the 9.3 install notes make it appear I can go direct from 8.4 to 9.3
I'll have to rewrite some of my rc.conf for networking eventually though
maybe even soon brycec: (IIRC softraid also incorporates some cryptsetup-type stuff, comparing OpenBSD and Linux-isms)
RandalSchwartz: I did... years ago :p ***: himuraken has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) RandalSchwartz: well, I'm practicing with a scratch box before doing a real box. :)
going to 9.3 first, since the EOL of both 9.3 and 10.1 are the same.
wow ... "Preparing to download files..." is taking forever
ok.. movement now
"fetching 8763 files"... hehe
freebsd-update install... no turning back now.
kernel updated, now updating userland mercutio: yeh it's pretty slow RandalSchwartz: well - changing a lot of files mercutio: are you going to upgrade to 10 afterwards? RandalSchwartz: no point just yet mercutio: ok RandalSchwartz: since EOL of 9 and 10 are the same
I try to take minimal risk steps
I have 6 systems I have to do this to. :) mercutio: yip
i feel the same way about important systems RandalSchwartz: if only I was a linux lover, I could use CoreOS for all this :) mercutio: but non-important i like to be bleeding edge :)
i haven't checked out coreos yet, someone else was mentioning that i should look at it RandalSchwartz: maybe me. :) mercutio: nah it was someone i know in real life :)
i love it how you go to coreos.com and it doesn't tell you what it does :) RandalSchwartz: my strategy for this was: install 8.4 on scratch box. build 8.4 packages from our current origins and options. upgrade to 9.3 (happening now). build 9.3 packages. mercutio: ahh overview RandalSchwartz: once all that is done, take a live box, upgrade 8.4 to 9.3, and install my 9.3 packages.
if that works, proceed 5 more times. :) mercutio: yeh it's much messier than it should be.
you can't just upgrade ready to go to a new zfs mount point
check it's all working fine then swap over to it
then roll back if it doesn't work out leaving the old system in place RandalSchwartz: yeah, I'm planning on installing beadm someday soon
that would effectively do that mercutio: cool RandalSchwartz: ... http://www.freshports.org/sysutils/beadm/
... http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/%2Absd-17/howto-zfs-madness-beadm-on-freebsd-4175412036/ mercutio: uhh this is just like what i was saying ? :) RandalSchwartz: 9.3 up and running! now building the 9.3 poudriere
so glad I found out and started using poudriere
building individual ports on each machine seemed nuts :)
696 packages to build mnathani_: is this true? : curl is 17 years old and maintained by one person mercutio: much outside help RandalSchwartz: sounds likely
I interviewed him for floss mercutio: he's only recently being paid to work on it too
i mean being able to work on it at his day job
i think much humbleness too mnathani_: found it http://twit.tv/show/floss-weekly/51 RandalSchwartz: as I recall, he reminded me of richard hipp
sqlite and fossil mercutio: 17 years ago is about when there was heaps of new projects that went somewhere
randal: as in the dos fossil drivers? RandalSchwartz: no... fossil the SCM mercutio: oh RandalSchwartz: ... http://twit.tv/show/floss-weekly/320 mercutio: mnathani_: postfix was written/maintained by one guy for nearly 17 years too.
again some outside help
open source is good like that :)
but the postfix author always impressed me with his dedication
if a user is confused by something, he blames the system
as being too complicated RandalSchwartz: the ntp code is maintained by one guy
postfix is wietse, right? mercutio: a lot of things are easier with one guy
randal: yeh RandalSchwartz: same guy who did some security tester mercutio: he seems impressive
but now arrogant RandalSchwartz: met him some years ago
oh... right... he did crack mercutio: what? mnathani_: RandalSchwartz: are you actively using vagrant? RandalSchwartz: my name is in the crack manual mercutio: oh not the drug RandalSchwartz: the password brute force mercutio: heh RandalSchwartz: at the very moment, no.
but earlier today yes
$client requires it for dev env mercutio: what RandalSchwartz: hope to move to docker soon mnathani_: what hypervisor are you using it with? mercutio: witese moved from ibm to google
does that mean postfix is going to the dark side? RandalSchwartz: virtualbox mercutio: (when did google become more evil than ibm?) mnathani_: osx hosts? or linux RandalSchwartz: osx mnathani_: I recently started using it with windows host and virtualbox RandalSchwartz: works on linux now? mnathani_: vagrantup.com has binaries for deb and rpm so probably RandalSchwartz: wow
times, they a changin' mnathani_: have you considered bringing in the developer: Mitchell Hashimoto for a floss show? RandalSchwartz: who is that?
and what project? mnathani_: the vagrant author mercutio: i assume it's vagrant
because he was jusut talking about vagrant :) RandalSchwartz: oh... that'd be cool.
email him, tell him to email me. mnathani_: will do RandalSchwartz: ... Since version 1.6, Vagrant natively supports Docker containers, which serve as a substitute for a fully virtualized operating system.
ooooh
oooh ooh oh
too bad that's just for linux
why isn't there a freebsd docker?
jails were the inspiration for LXC mercutio: i thought openvz would be the inspiriation
and linux-vserver RandalSchwartz: .. http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/127001/linux-lxc-vs-freebsd-jail mercutio: wikipedia never seems ot make it easy to find out when projects start :(
linux-vserver oct 2001 RandalSchwartz: jails started in freebsd 4.0 in 2001
2000 mercutio: hmm RandalSchwartz: darn it.. you typed 2001 just as I was trying to type 2000, and my brain rewrote it mercutio: heh
damn whenever i try and track when things started i feel older :/ RandalSchwartz: here's a history: http://www.cybera.ca/news-and-events/tech-radar/contain-your-enthusiasm-part-two-jails-zones-openvz-and-lxc/ mercutio: chroot is older of course RandalSchwartz: sure...
the other article talks about that. ***: himuraken has joined #arpnetworks NiTeMaRe: mercutio: for awhile now maybe a year?
dec/2014 mercutio: damn what did i ask? NiTeMaRe: august 2014 actually
solusvm ipv6 subnet mercutio: oh dec 2014 is pretty late.
even 2014 is pretty late NiTeMaRe: ya
took them awhile mercutio: from what i've seen of solusvm ipv6 seems like bad idea NiTeMaRe: it works pretty well now, even got ebtables working nicely with it
i only use KVM with it not xen/whatever else though so i'm not sure about other virts mercutio: they tend to spam the network with heaps of nd/arp
it's ironic that arp doesn't have arp issues :) NiTeMaRe: lol mercutio: like choose a random vm someewhere cheap on lowendbox say
then do tcpdump -p -l -n -i eth0 ! port 22 on an idle server
and there'll be like 250arp/sec etc often
and lots of other crap
if you have 20 servers, that's 5000arp/sec... NiTeMaRe: ya mercutio: linux 4.1 is bringing a new cpu thing to linux for kvm where it can bsaically stop the kernel running while it's ruunning a vm
but even if arp's are reasonably cheap to process they "wake up" the cpu a lot
and thrash cpu caches etc.
it's just one of many virtualisation issues though NiTeMaRe: i should read up about 4.1
haven't done it yet mercutio: and it seems likely that intel cpus will just make context switches cheaper or divide cache better or such
i wouldn't worry too much yet.
there's nothing earth-shattering.
like the kvm optimisation is nice, but it's not going to make a /huge/ difference
it's more in getting closer and closer to 0 overhead for cpu bound tasks
and where kvm seems to struggle more is disk/network
it's like upgrading the cpu on a disk bound database server.
it may make some fast things faster, but it won't stop "slowness" NiTeMaRe: bottlenecking :P mercutio: yeah once people start doing 10 gigabit more they'll notice kvm's network issues more.
it's kind of cpu hungry at gigabit, and struggles a bit with high udp loads. RandalSchwartz: steve gibson calls that the background radiation of the net NiTeMaRe: - EXT4 now supports file-system level encryption after being a feature driven by Google for Android.
that will be nice mercutio: nite: are you really going to trust ext4 encryption on initial realease?
release NiTeMaRe: no
it will be nice once it is developed though mercutio: i still want lz4 compression on ext4, xfs etc.
i've started shifting from ext4 to xfs. NiTeMaRe: i've been wanting to play around with btrfs mercutio: i tried lzo compression with btrfs, but btrfs is just too unstable, even for non-crtical systems. NiTeMaRe: it is still unstable? mercutio: yeah NiTeMaRe: i saw opensuse implemented it native mercutio: well it depends, it's unstable using it as /
on a ssd with a small partition
well it was ssd raid, but same diff
opensuse implemented reiserfs native too NiTeMaRe: interesting mercutio: i used to use reiserfs for squid
but i never trusted it with critical data. NiTeMaRe: you've played around with bhyve much? mercutio: nah not yet
freebsd is too unstable for me to dare :) NiTeMaRe: i love freebsd RandalSchwartz: I'm presuming once I get my ARP box to 10.x I can use bhyve
my DigitalOcean 10.x box can't do it mercutio: freebsd is ok as long as you tread lightly
but i'm just too paranoid about a system that can't deal with 9k mtu's without running out of memory RandalSchwartz: ZFS on / for the win mercutio: basically their memory allocator gets fragmented and spaz's
it's ok if you use 2k mtu
there's some other weird stuff too NiTeMaRe: I fly out to Texas Sunday and I still have 0 packed
should probly get on that mercutio: heh i never pack in advance
i always think i /should/ pack in advance RandalSchwartz: if you pack afterward, it's not as effective.
lots of loose things on the security belt m0unds: lol RandalSchwartz: you drag the six plastic tubs with you to the plane. :) m0unds: i just bring a dolly and my dresser RandalSchwartz: a garry dolly? m0unds: haha
i don't think up_the_irons would want to carry my dresser around RandalSchwartz: heh