#arpnetworks 2015-05-06,Wed

mercutio

softraid last i knew was just joing 2 or more partitions to form a pretend partition

plett

softraid would be md raid in Linux

mercutio

it doesn't do chunking
some raid systems do support doing it there though

RandalSchwartz

anyone taken freebsd 8 to 9?
I'm reading the release notes... doesn't look too crazy.

[14:23]

the 9.3 install notes make it appear I can go direct from 8.4 to 9.3
I'll have to rewrite some of my rc.conf for networking eventually though
maybe even soon

[14:36]

brycec

(IIRC softraid also incorporates some cryptsetup-type stuff, comparing OpenBSD and Linux-isms)
RandalSchwartz: I did... years ago :p

[14:37]

....... (idle for 30mn)

***

himuraken has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)

[15:07]

RandalSchwartz

well, I'm practicing with a scratch box before doing a real box. :)
going to 9.3 first, since the EOL of both 9.3 and 10.1 are the same.

[15:09]

.......... (idle for 48mn)

wow ... "Preparing to download files..." is taking forever

[15:58]

ok.. movement now
"fetching 8763 files"... hehe

[16:07]

..... (idle for 24mn)

freebsd-update install... no turning back now.

[16:31]

kernel updated, now updating userland

[16:43]

mercutio

yeh it's pretty slow

RandalSchwartz

well - changing a lot of files

mercutio

are you going to upgrade to 10 afterwards?

RandalSchwartz

no point just yet

mercutio

RandalSchwartz

since EOL of 9 and 10 are the same
I try to take minimal risk steps
I have 6 systems I have to do this to. :)

mercutio

yip
i feel the same way about important systems

[16:45]

RandalSchwartz

if only I was a linux lover, I could use CoreOS for all this :)

[16:45]

mercutio

but non-important i like to be bleeding edge :)
i haven't checked out coreos yet, someone else was mentioning that i should look at it

[16:45]

RandalSchwartz

maybe me. :)

[16:46]

mercutio

nah it was someone i know in real life :)
i love it how you go to coreos.com and it doesn't tell you what it does :)

[16:46]

RandalSchwartz

my strategy for this was: install 8.4 on scratch box. build 8.4 packages from our current origins and options. upgrade to 9.3 (happening now). build 9.3 packages.

mercutio

ahh overview

RandalSchwartz

once all that is done, take a live box, upgrade 8.4 to 9.3, and install my 9.3 packages.
if that works, proceed 5 more times. :)

mercutio

yeh it's much messier than it should be.
you can't just upgrade ready to go to a new zfs mount point
check it's all working fine then swap over to it
then roll back if it doesn't work out leaving the old system in place

... http://www.freshports.org/sysutils/beadm/
... http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/%2Absd-17/howto-zfs-madness-beadm-on-freebsd-4175412036/

RandalSchwartz

yeah, I'm planning on installing beadm someday soon
that would effectively do that

[16:48]

mercutio

cool

[16:49]

RandalSchwartz

[16:50]

mercutio

uhh this is just like what i was saying ? :)

[16:52]

.... (idle for 18mn)

RandalSchwartz

9.3 up and running! now building the 9.3 poudriere
so glad I found out and started using poudriere
building individual ports on each machine seemed nuts :)
696 packages to build

[17:10]

mnathani_

is this true? : curl is 17 years old and maintained by one person

mercutio

much outside help

RandalSchwartz

sounds likely
I interviewed him for floss

mercutio

he's only recently being paid to work on it too
i mean being able to work on it at his day job
i think much humbleness too

mnathani_

found it http://twit.tv/show/floss-weekly/51

[17:20]

RandalSchwartz

as I recall, he reminded me of richard hipp
sqlite and fossil

[17:20]

mercutio

17 years ago is about when there was heaps of new projects that went somewhere
randal: as in the dos fossil drivers?

[17:20]

RandalSchwartz

no... fossil the SCM

mercutio

RandalSchwartz

... http://twit.tv/show/floss-weekly/320

mercutio

mnathani_: postfix was written/maintained by one guy for nearly 17 years too.
again some outside help
open source is good like that :)
but the postfix author always impressed me with his dedication
if a user is confused by something, he blames the system
as being too complicated

RandalSchwartz

the ntp code is maintained by one guy
postfix is wietse, right?

[17:23]

mercutio

a lot of things are easier with one guy
randal: yeh

[17:23]

RandalSchwartz

same guy who did some security tester

mercutio

he seems impressive
but now arrogant

RandalSchwartz

met him some years ago
oh... right... he did crack

mercutio

what?

mnathani_

RandalSchwartz: are you actively using vagrant?

RandalSchwartz

my name is in the crack manual

mercutio

oh not the drug

RandalSchwartz

the password brute force

mercutio

heh

RandalSchwartz

at the very moment, no.
but earlier today yes
$client requires it for dev env

mercutio

what

RandalSchwartz

hope to move to docker soon

mnathani_

what hypervisor are you using it with?

mercutio

witese moved from ibm to google
does that mean postfix is going to the dark side?

RandalSchwartz

virtualbox

mercutio

(when did google become more evil than ibm?)

mnathani_

osx hosts? or linux

RandalSchwartz

osx

mnathani_

I recently started using it with windows host and virtualbox

RandalSchwartz

works on linux now?

mnathani_

vagrantup.com has binaries for deb and rpm so probably

RandalSchwartz

wow
times, they a changin'

mnathani_

have you considered bringing in the developer: Mitchell Hashimoto for a floss show?

[17:27]

RandalSchwartz

who is that?
and what project?

mnathani_

the vagrant author

mercutio

i assume it's vagrant
because he was jusut talking about vagrant :)

RandalSchwartz

oh... that'd be cool.
email him, tell him to email me.

.. http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/127001/linux-lxc-vs-freebsd-jail

mnathani_

will do

[17:29]

RandalSchwartz

... Since version 1.6, Vagrant natively supports Docker containers, which serve as a substitute for a fully virtualized operating system.
ooooh
oooh ooh oh
too bad that's just for linux
why isn't there a freebsd docker?
jails were the inspiration for LXC

[17:29]

mercutio

i thought openvz would be the inspiriation
and linux-vserver

[17:30]

RandalSchwartz

[17:31]

mercutio

wikipedia never seems ot make it easy to find out when projects start :(
linux-vserver oct 2001

[17:32]

RandalSchwartz

jails started in freebsd 4.0 in 2001
2000

mercutio

hmm

RandalSchwartz

darn it.. you typed 2001 just as I was trying to type 2000, and my brain rewrote it

mercutio

heh
damn whenever i try and track when things started i feel older :/

RandalSchwartz

here's a history: http://www.cybera.ca/news-and-events/tech-radar/contain-your-enthusiasm-part-two-jails-zones-openvz-and-lxc/

mercutio

chroot is older of course

[17:34]

RandalSchwartz

sure...
the other article talks about that.

[17:34]

***

himuraken has joined #arpnetworks

[17:40]

.......... (idle for 48mn)

NiTeMaRe

mercutio: for awhile now maybe a year?
dec/2014

[18:28]

mercutio

damn what did i ask?

[18:29]

NiTeMaRe

august 2014 actually
solusvm ipv6 subnet

[18:29]

mercutio

oh dec 2014 is pretty late.
even 2014 is pretty late

[18:30]

NiTeMaRe

ya
took them awhile

[18:30]

mercutio

from what i've seen of solusvm ipv6 seems like bad idea

[18:30]

NiTeMaRe

it works pretty well now, even got ebtables working nicely with it
i only use KVM with it not xen/whatever else though so i'm not sure about other virts

[18:31]

mercutio

they tend to spam the network with heaps of nd/arp
it's ironic that arp doesn't have arp issues :)

[18:32]

NiTeMaRe

lol

[18:33]

mercutio

like choose a random vm someewhere cheap on lowendbox say
then do tcpdump -p -l -n -i eth0 ! port 22 on an idle server
and there'll be like 250arp/sec etc often
and lots of other crap
if you have 20 servers, that's 5000arp/sec...

[18:33]

NiTeMaRe

[18:34]

mercutio

linux 4.1 is bringing a new cpu thing to linux for kvm where it can bsaically stop the kernel running while it's ruunning a vm
but even if arp's are reasonably cheap to process they "wake up" the cpu a lot
and thrash cpu caches etc.
it's just one of many virtualisation issues though

[18:34]

NiTeMaRe

i should read up about 4.1
haven't done it yet

[18:35]

mercutio

and it seems likely that intel cpus will just make context switches cheaper or divide cache better or such
i wouldn't worry too much yet.
there's nothing earth-shattering.
like the kvm optimisation is nice, but it's not going to make a /huge/ difference
it's more in getting closer and closer to 0 overhead for cpu bound tasks
and where kvm seems to struggle more is disk/network
it's like upgrading the cpu on a disk bound database server.
it may make some fast things faster, but it won't stop "slowness"

[18:36]

NiTeMaRe

bottlenecking :P

[18:39]

mercutio

yeah once people start doing 10 gigabit more they'll notice kvm's network issues more.
it's kind of cpu hungry at gigabit, and struggles a bit with high udp loads.

[18:39]

RandalSchwartz

steve gibson calls that the background radiation of the net

[18:40]

NiTeMaRe

- EXT4 now supports file-system level encryption after being a feature driven by Google for Android.
that will be nice

[18:40]

mercutio

nite: are you really going to trust ext4 encryption on initial realease?
release

[18:40]

NiTeMaRe

no
it will be nice once it is developed though

mercutio

i still want lz4 compression on ext4, xfs etc.
i've started shifting from ext4 to xfs.

NiTeMaRe

i've been wanting to play around with btrfs

mercutio

i tried lzo compression with btrfs, but btrfs is just too unstable, even for non-crtical systems.

NiTeMaRe

it is still unstable?

mercutio

yeah

NiTeMaRe

i saw opensuse implemented it native

mercutio

well it depends, it's unstable using it as /
on a ssd with a small partition
well it was ssd raid, but same diff
opensuse implemented reiserfs native too

NiTeMaRe

interesting