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| Who | What | When |
|---|---|---|
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| brycec | But not for long, 5.8 has disklabel templating :D
of course that only works on the initial install... | [06:54] |
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| mkb | on BSD you have to resize the old fashioned way: dump, newfs, restore | [07:18] |
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| RandalSchwartz | not freebsd zfs
it'll recognize larger disk | [10:59] |
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| mercutio | brycec: disklabel templating/
oh to say how much to use of partitions etc | [12:27] |
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| brycec | yeah | [13:41] |
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| mercutio | yeah i saw discussions about the autoinstall stuff on the mailing list. | [14:02] |
| i wonder if some lvm type solution is going to come to openbsd | [14:11] | |
| mike-burns | Is that different from bioctl?
(I don't actually know.) | [14:12] |
| mercutio | lvm is about sub volumes
that you can resize at runtime | [14:12] |
| mike-burns | Ah. | [14:13] |
| mercutio | so you can allocate various amounts of space, but change them later.
bioctl is about managing raid systems lvm is the kind of layer that it seems to make most sense to implement "cache" devices too | [14:13] |
| mike-burns | Heh, the misc@ thread where someone asked about lvm for OBSD mentions Arpnetworks.
http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=132100433813215&w=2 | [14:14] |
| BryceBot | openbsd-misc: "Re: similar lvm tool on openbsd??" from carlopmart <carlopmart () gmail ! com> @ 2011-11-11 9:35:23 | [14:14] |
| mercutio | heh | [14:15] |
| plett | Aren't zfs volumes roughly equivalent to LVM LVs? | [14:16] |
| mercutio | plett: not really
you can fix the same issue but zfs is kind of a much bigger more complicated solution i'm not a huge fan of lvm, but it is convenient | [14:16] |
| mike-burns | softraid(4)? | [14:17] |
| mercutio | softraid last i knew was just joing 2 or more partitions to form a pretend partition | [14:17] |
| plett | softraid would be md raid in Linux | [14:17] |
| mercutio | it doesn't do chunking
some raid systems do support doing it there though | [14:17] |
| RandalSchwartz | anyone taken freebsd 8 to 9?
I'm reading the release notes... doesn't look too crazy. | [14:23] |
| the 9.3 install notes make it appear I can go direct from 8.4 to 9.3
I'll have to rewrite some of my rc.conf for networking eventually though maybe even soon | [14:36] | |
| brycec | (IIRC softraid also incorporates some cryptsetup-type stuff, comparing OpenBSD and Linux-isms)
RandalSchwartz: I did... years ago :p | [14:37] |
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| *** | himuraken has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) | [15:07] |
| RandalSchwartz | well, I'm practicing with a scratch box before doing a real box. :)
going to 9.3 first, since the EOL of both 9.3 and 10.1 are the same. | [15:09] |
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| wow ... "Preparing to download files..." is taking forever | [15:58] | |
| ok.. movement now
"fetching 8763 files"... hehe | [16:07] | |
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| freebsd-update install... no turning back now. | [16:31] | |
| kernel updated, now updating userland | [16:43] | |
| mercutio | yeh it's pretty slow | [16:44] |
| RandalSchwartz | well - changing a lot of files | [16:44] |
| mercutio | are you going to upgrade to 10 afterwards? | [16:44] |
| RandalSchwartz | no point just yet | [16:44] |
| mercutio | ok | [16:44] |
| RandalSchwartz | since EOL of 9 and 10 are the same
I try to take minimal risk steps I have 6 systems I have to do this to. :) | [16:44] |
| mercutio | yip
i feel the same way about important systems | [16:45] |
| RandalSchwartz | if only I was a linux lover, I could use CoreOS for all this :) | [16:45] |
| mercutio | but non-important i like to be bleeding edge :)
i haven't checked out coreos yet, someone else was mentioning that i should look at it | [16:45] |
| RandalSchwartz | maybe me. :) | [16:46] |
| mercutio | nah it was someone i know in real life :)
i love it how you go to coreos.com and it doesn't tell you what it does :) | [16:46] |
| RandalSchwartz | my strategy for this was: install 8.4 on scratch box. build 8.4 packages from our current origins and options. upgrade to 9.3 (happening now). build 9.3 packages. | [16:47] |
| mercutio | ahh overview | [16:47] |
| RandalSchwartz | once all that is done, take a live box, upgrade 8.4 to 9.3, and install my 9.3 packages.
if that works, proceed 5 more times. :) | [16:47] |
| mercutio | yeh it's much messier than it should be.
you can't just upgrade ready to go to a new zfs mount point check it's all working fine then swap over to it then roll back if it doesn't work out leaving the old system in place | [16:47] |
| RandalSchwartz | yeah, I'm planning on installing beadm someday soon
that would effectively do that | [16:48] |
| mercutio | cool | [16:49] |
| RandalSchwartz | ... http://www.freshports.org/sysutils/beadm/
... http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/%2Absd-17/howto-zfs-madness-beadm-on-freebsd-4175412036/ | [16:50] |
| mercutio | uhh this is just like what i was saying ? :) | [16:52] |
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| RandalSchwartz | 9.3 up and running! now building the 9.3 poudriere
so glad I found out and started using poudriere building individual ports on each machine seemed nuts :) 696 packages to build | [17:10] |
| mnathani_ | is this true? : curl is 17 years old and maintained by one person | [17:19] |
| mercutio | much outside help | [17:19] |
| RandalSchwartz | sounds likely
I interviewed him for floss | [17:19] |
| mercutio | he's only recently being paid to work on it too
i mean being able to work on it at his day job i think much humbleness too | [17:19] |
| mnathani_ | found it http://twit.tv/show/floss-weekly/51 | [17:20] |
| RandalSchwartz | as I recall, he reminded me of richard hipp
sqlite and fossil | [17:20] |
| mercutio | 17 years ago is about when there was heaps of new projects that went somewhere
randal: as in the dos fossil drivers? | [17:20] |
| RandalSchwartz | no... fossil the SCM | [17:21] |
| mercutio | oh | [17:21] |
| RandalSchwartz | ... http://twit.tv/show/floss-weekly/320 | [17:21] |
| mercutio | mnathani_: postfix was written/maintained by one guy for nearly 17 years too.
again some outside help open source is good like that :) but the postfix author always impressed me with his dedication if a user is confused by something, he blames the system as being too complicated | [17:21] |
| RandalSchwartz | the ntp code is maintained by one guy
postfix is wietse, right? | [17:23] |
| mercutio | a lot of things are easier with one guy
randal: yeh | [17:23] |
| RandalSchwartz | same guy who did some security tester | [17:24] |
| mercutio | he seems impressive
but now arrogant | [17:24] |
| RandalSchwartz | met him some years ago
oh... right... he did crack | [17:24] |
| mercutio | what? | [17:24] |
| mnathani_ | RandalSchwartz: are you actively using vagrant? | [17:24] |
| RandalSchwartz | my name is in the crack manual | [17:24] |
| mercutio | oh not the drug | [17:24] |
| RandalSchwartz | the password brute force | [17:24] |
| mercutio | heh | [17:24] |
| RandalSchwartz | at the very moment, no.
but earlier today yes $client requires it for dev env | [17:25] |
| mercutio | what | [17:25] |
| RandalSchwartz | hope to move to docker soon | [17:25] |
| mnathani_ | what hypervisor are you using it with? | [17:25] |
| mercutio | witese moved from ibm to google
does that mean postfix is going to the dark side? | [17:25] |
| RandalSchwartz | virtualbox | [17:25] |
| mercutio | (when did google become more evil than ibm?) | [17:25] |
| mnathani_ | osx hosts? or linux | [17:25] |
| RandalSchwartz | osx | [17:25] |
| mnathani_ | I recently started using it with windows host and virtualbox | [17:26] |
| RandalSchwartz | works on linux now? | [17:26] |
| mnathani_ | vagrantup.com has binaries for deb and rpm so probably | [17:26] |
| RandalSchwartz | wow
times, they a changin' | [17:26] |
| mnathani_ | have you considered bringing in the developer: Mitchell Hashimoto for a floss show? | [17:27] |
| RandalSchwartz | who is that?
and what project? | [17:28] |
| mnathani_ | the vagrant author | [17:28] |
| mercutio | i assume it's vagrant
because he was jusut talking about vagrant :) | [17:28] |
| RandalSchwartz | oh... that'd be cool.
email him, tell him to email me. | [17:28] |
| mnathani_ | will do | [17:29] |
| RandalSchwartz | ... Since version 1.6, Vagrant natively supports Docker containers, which serve as a substitute for a fully virtualized operating system.
ooooh oooh ooh oh too bad that's just for linux why isn't there a freebsd docker? jails were the inspiration for LXC | [17:29] |
| mercutio | i thought openvz would be the inspiriation
and linux-vserver | [17:30] |
| RandalSchwartz | .. http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/127001/linux-lxc-vs-freebsd-jail | [17:31] |
| mercutio | wikipedia never seems ot make it easy to find out when projects start :(
linux-vserver oct 2001 | [17:32] |
| RandalSchwartz | jails started in freebsd 4.0 in 2001
2000 | [17:33] |
| mercutio | hmm | [17:33] |
| RandalSchwartz | darn it.. you typed 2001 just as I was trying to type 2000, and my brain rewrote it | [17:33] |
| mercutio | heh
damn whenever i try and track when things started i feel older :/ | [17:33] |
| RandalSchwartz | here's a history: http://www.cybera.ca/news-and-events/tech-radar/contain-your-enthusiasm-part-two-jails-zones-openvz-and-lxc/ | [17:33] |
| mercutio | chroot is older of course | [17:34] |
| RandalSchwartz | sure...
the other article talks about that. | [17:34] |
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| NiTeMaRe | mercutio: for awhile now maybe a year?
dec/2014 | [18:28] |
| mercutio | damn what did i ask? | [18:29] |
| NiTeMaRe | august 2014 actually
solusvm ipv6 subnet | [18:29] |
| mercutio | oh dec 2014 is pretty late.
even 2014 is pretty late | [18:30] |
| NiTeMaRe | ya
took them awhile | [18:30] |
| mercutio | from what i've seen of solusvm ipv6 seems like bad idea | [18:30] |
| NiTeMaRe | it works pretty well now, even got ebtables working nicely with it
i only use KVM with it not xen/whatever else though so i'm not sure about other virts | [18:31] |
| mercutio | they tend to spam the network with heaps of nd/arp
it's ironic that arp doesn't have arp issues :) | [18:32] |
| NiTeMaRe | lol | [18:33] |
| mercutio | like choose a random vm someewhere cheap on lowendbox say
then do tcpdump -p -l -n -i eth0 ! port 22 on an idle server and there'll be like 250arp/sec etc often and lots of other crap if you have 20 servers, that's 5000arp/sec... | [18:33] |
| NiTeMaRe | ya | [18:34] |
| mercutio | linux 4.1 is bringing a new cpu thing to linux for kvm where it can bsaically stop the kernel running while it's ruunning a vm
but even if arp's are reasonably cheap to process they "wake up" the cpu a lot and thrash cpu caches etc. it's just one of many virtualisation issues though | [18:34] |
| NiTeMaRe | i should read up about 4.1
haven't done it yet | [18:35] |
| mercutio | and it seems likely that intel cpus will just make context switches cheaper or divide cache better or such
i wouldn't worry too much yet. there's nothing earth-shattering. like the kvm optimisation is nice, but it's not going to make a /huge/ difference it's more in getting closer and closer to 0 overhead for cpu bound tasks and where kvm seems to struggle more is disk/network it's like upgrading the cpu on a disk bound database server. it may make some fast things faster, but it won't stop "slowness" | [18:36] |
| NiTeMaRe | bottlenecking :P | [18:39] |
| mercutio | yeah once people start doing 10 gigabit more they'll notice kvm's network issues more.
it's kind of cpu hungry at gigabit, and struggles a bit with high udp loads. | [18:39] |
| RandalSchwartz | steve gibson calls that the background radiation of the net | [18:40] |
| NiTeMaRe | - EXT4 now supports file-system level encryption after being a feature driven by Google for Android.
that will be nice | [18:40] |
| mercutio | nite: are you really going to trust ext4 encryption on initial realease?
release | [18:40] |
| NiTeMaRe | no
it will be nice once it is developed though | [18:41] |
| mercutio | i still want lz4 compression on ext4, xfs etc.
i've started shifting from ext4 to xfs. | [18:41] |
| NiTeMaRe | i've been wanting to play around with btrfs | [18:41] |
| mercutio | i tried lzo compression with btrfs, but btrfs is just too unstable, even for non-crtical systems. | [18:41] |
| NiTeMaRe | it is still unstable? | [18:42] |
| mercutio | yeah | [18:42] |
| NiTeMaRe | i saw opensuse implemented it native | [18:42] |
| mercutio | well it depends, it's unstable using it as /
on a ssd with a small partition well it was ssd raid, but same diff opensuse implemented reiserfs native too | [18:42] |
| NiTeMaRe | interesting | [18:42] |
| mercutio | i used to use reiserfs for squid
but i never trusted it with critical data. | [18:43] |
| NiTeMaRe | you've played around with bhyve much? | [18:43] |
| mercutio | nah not yet
freebsd is too unstable for me to dare :) | [18:43] |
| NiTeMaRe | i love freebsd | [18:44] |
| RandalSchwartz | I'm presuming once I get my ARP box to 10.x I can use bhyve
my DigitalOcean 10.x box can't do it | [18:44] |
| mercutio | freebsd is ok as long as you tread lightly
but i'm just too paranoid about a system that can't deal with 9k mtu's without running out of memory | [18:44] |
| RandalSchwartz | ZFS on / for the win | [18:44] |
| mercutio | basically their memory allocator gets fragmented and spaz's
it's ok if you use 2k mtu there's some other weird stuff too | [18:45] |
| NiTeMaRe | I fly out to Texas Sunday and I still have 0 packed
should probly get on that | [18:51] |
| mercutio | heh i never pack in advance
i always think i /should/ pack in advance | [18:56] |
| RandalSchwartz | if you pack afterward, it's not as effective.
lots of loose things on the security belt | [19:01] |
| m0unds | lol | [19:13] |
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| RandalSchwartz | you drag the six plastic tubs with you to the plane. :) | [19:28] |
| m0unds | i just bring a dolly and my dresser | [19:31] |
| RandalSchwartz | a garry dolly? | [19:33] |
| m0unds | haha
i don't think up_the_irons would want to carry my dresser around | [19:33] |
| RandalSchwartz | heh | [19:35] |
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