#arpnetworks 2015-05-05,Tue

grody

i cant get my sony semc to work in 8.1 but had flashtool working in 10, but fastboot wouldn't work

m0unds

oh
i have the sdk on my win8 box and it works fine

grody

driver related issues i think

m0unds

yeah, sounds like it
not w/a sony device in my case though

grody

im starting to dislike sony fast
although less than samsung

[16:15]

m0unds

but the drivers for my phone were acquired via windows update without me doing anything
i wish they'd step up their mobile imaging game
they're supposed to be removing some of the "barriers" that existed bw mobile and camera software engineering
so i hope that means they get some of the algorithms in their cameras ported to mobile cameras

[16:15]

grody

yea some devices seem ok with it, but these sonys have a special flash mode outside of adb/fastboot

[16:15]

m0unds

that's weird
is it like the ODIN stuff for samsung devices?

[16:16]

grody

S1 flash protocol or something

[16:16]

m0unds

where you have to bootstrap your device flashing with some middleware thing

[16:16]

grody

yea

[16:17]

m0unds

lame

[16:17]

grody

however ODIN dies if you dd the entire internal emmc
this S1 mode you can still flash firmware back to it if you were stupid enough to do that
seems the samsungs store EVERYTHING on the emmc, wipe it and it wont even power up anymore
not sure wtf the sonys do, but did it for wth (was a dead device anyway) and was still able to bring it into that mode :/

[16:17]

....... (idle for 34mn)

mnathani_

was a new windows 10 tp released?
or insider preview as it is now called

[16:54]

..... (idle for 24mn)

mercutio

mnathani_: it changed names.
i can't remember to what
ok windows 10 pro insider preview build 10074 is what i have

[17:20]

m0unds

yea, from technical preview to insider preview (which is what the name always was for mobile)
three days in a row w/heavy thunderstorms. weird weather for here.

[17:21]

mercutio

sounds exciting
@weather akl

BryceBot

Auckland International, New Zealand: Scattered Clouds 70°F (21°C), Humidity: 68%, Wind: From the North at 15 MPH -- For more details including the forecast and almanac, see http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/getForecast?query=-37.00805664,174.79167175 or re-request this with: @weather -v akl

m0unds

our typical summer weather is thunderstorms most afternoons

mercutio

such boring weather here.

m0unds

but we usually just have really heavy wind in the spring

mercutio

wind is boring :(
i much prefer thunderstorms.
i like it when it's kind of warm and stormy
like a nice pleasant thuunderstorm with lots of exciting lightening

[17:23]

m0unds

yea, the wind we get is usually pretty annoying

mercutio

where the air can feel electric :)
wind can be kind of draining

m0unds

spring and late fall are the worst here

mercutio

apparently it's sub-tropical here now, so we don't have 4 seasons.

m0unds

~105km/h those times of year

mercutio

ouuch
is that gust?

m0unds

nah, sustained, especially in winter
late fall winter

mercutio

damn that sucks

m0unds

it sucks

mercutio

above 60k starts getting annoying i reckon

m0unds

blows shingles of roofs like crazy
yeah
i can handle it to that point

mnathani_

mercutio: are you running in a VM or on physical Hardware?

m0unds

one year, it lifted an improperly installed radio rig off a verizon wireless tower
threw it on the ground

mercutio

mnathani_: running what?

mnathani_

windows 10

mercutio

physical
i7-3770, 32gb ram, samsung 850 pro 256gb
it still runs out of memory, bloody windows and it's memory leaks.

mnathani_

any performance boost compared to Win 8?

[17:26]

mercutio

well i went from windows 2008
and it boots quicker than windows 2008
performance wise minor things like opening up directories in explorer seems faster.

[17:26]

m0unds

win8 boots pretty fast
i think my power on to desktop is like 15 seconds

mercutio

both 2k8 and 10 are on uefi
with ssd
boot speed isn't really the biggest issue with windows these days
it's still got the bloody annoying "locking up" of the uuser interface

m0unds

i had to diagnose a slow boot issue, turned out teamviewer was adding almost 50 seconds to boot time

mercutio

that os/2 had :/

m0unds

i don't really notice any ui lock-ups

mercutio

it's really noticable when you use synergy

m0unds

like explorer hanging?

mercutio

as you're typing and it sticks down on a key

m0unds

i don't think i've ever seen that in normal use

mercutio

like the whole os locking as you start a 3d application

m0unds

but i don't use synergy

mercutio

like chrome slowing the whole system to a crawl.

m0unds

my windows pc is almost explicitly used for 3d stuff

mercutio

like swapping between 3d app and back to windowis taking forever

m0unds

games and whatnot

mercutio

i dunno i seem to like to hit issues :/
chrome i have to restart all of the time

m0unds

chrome is getting to be more and more of a POS

mercutio

my "low" memory usage is like 6gb

m0unds

you might try some of the chromium builds instead of mainline chrome

mercutio

right now i'm using 204.gb?

m0unds

i found they were annoying in other ways, but i had fewer perf issues

mercutio

i dunno how to read it

m0unds

http://chromium.woolyss.com/
this dude builds chromium for windows, but last time i checked, it's incapable of automatically updating

https://weallsee.net/winmem.png

mercutio

[17:30]

m0unds

jeez, what do you have running?

[17:30]

mercutio

chrome

[17:30]

m0unds

that's it? really?

[17:31]

mercutio

oh skype too
skype is using up 200mb of ram
yeah there's a few windows open in chrome

[17:31]

m0unds

have you looked at the details tab or whatever it is in taskmgr?

mercutio

Google Chrome 43.0.2357.45

m0unds

you can add additional columns w/cached vs in use vs committed memory use

mercutio

13,540,388k 54,233k 13,594,621k 16,401,432 k 9,800,920 k
the first is private
the fourth is virtual memory private
yeah chrome is such an insane memory hog

m0unds

i stopped using firefox years ago because of that
often saw it referred to as fatfox

mercutio

what do you recommend?

m0unds

i use chrome, but i'm not a huge fan

mercutio

i mean i upgraded from 16gb of ram to 32gb
because i was running out of memory..

m0unds

like i mentioned, i tried the chromium builds and those had other issues like flash not working sometimes
since they don't include pepperflash

mercutio

this is on windows though

m0unds

and sometimes other little quirks, as they're built on more recent code than the stable chrome stuff
yeah

mercutio

on linux i've started to usue firefox

m0unds

that link i sent is builds for windows and osx

mercutio

because chrome seems to keep breaking pages

m0unds

http://chromium.woolyss.com/
scroll down a little

mercutio

i buuilt chrome from source once

m0unds

oh, looks like he started including flash and html av
nice

mercutio

i like the cloud sync stuff

http://chromium.woolyss.com/#features

m0unds

mercutio

it's reall handy for going to things quickly on my cellphone

m0unds

yeah
that's the only reason i still use chrome
that and auto updates
haha
although pushbullet can make it a little easier, you have to actively push links instead of just "having" them there

mercutio

the auto updates doesn't delete old versions
so it gets more and more bloaty

m0unds

oh, yeah

mercutio

i really want some kind of sync stuff that isn't google

m0unds

xmarks sucks

mercutio

but i am not going to develop it myself
i just don't have the ressources to
but it's getting silly being tied into google infrastructure

m0unds

yep

[17:37]

mercutio

and someone should do open soruce versions of core android apps

[17:37]

m0unds

google stopped maintaing a lot of AOSP stuff
which is why the "open source" argument wrt android is amusing to me
it's getting more and more closed each release
you get lower SDK API levels with full open source builds because a lot of the newer stuff is included w/google play svcs

[17:37]

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mnathani_ has quit IRC ()

[17:39]

m0unds

i don't like arstechnica too much, but there was an article they posted last year or the year before about how android keeps getting more and more closed each release and how google is slowly abandoning maintenance of AOSP apps because they provide closed source alternatives on most android powered devices

[17:39]

mercutio

sigh
i acutally want to see development to move towards c, objective-c, d, or something

[17:40]

BryceBot

That's what she said!!

[17:40]

mercutio

this java crap gets in the way
i've noticed people are getting more and more keen on javscript over time
i used to use links in linux to use less memory
it's really hard navigating now days in links
but something more basic seems like a good idea :)
like if 8gb is enough for web browsing easily that'd be a good goal.

[17:40]

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[17:44]

mercutio

if a test web page took up only 64mb of ram etc.
ok so wikipedia main page takes up 83mb of ram
wow spartan takes uup 23.2mb of process ram for just showing that page
oh ther's another process using 74.4mb
so yeh
it's insane
i think facebook uses about half a gig

[17:44]

m0unds

i don't really care about memory use that much

[17:47]

mercutio

i didn't for ages.
it's just that you can't uupgrade desktops to more than 32gb.

m0unds

right

mercutio

and it's kind of stupid when chrome will take ilke half of that memory
also it gets slow

m0unds

this is making me want to fire up my PC and look

mercutio

and accessing a large amount of memory tends to use up more cpu too

m0unds

because i'm pretty sure i rarely break 12-16GB total w/normal use

mercutio

server stuff isn't as bad as desktop stuff these days
chromium has heaps of proceses so it's harder
also things like the spdy indicator icon use 18mb of ram

mnathani

I am running 24 GB on my Windows box

mercutio

24gb is probably fine

mnathani

and keep running into low memory
lots of chrome tabs
and vms

mercutio

32gb isn't really a lot better than 16gb.
it juust delays the amount of time betwween it running out of ram
ahh i'm not doing any vm's.

mnathani

are memory leaks hard to fix?
by the vendors

[17:51]

mercutio

tbh, i only stuck the ram in here because windows was rnuning out of ram and saying it had to shut down something
it depends, in code like chrome probably yes.

[17:51]

mnathani

chrome is still way faster than IE or Opera or Firefox

[17:52]

m0unds

FWIW, workstation boards support up to 64 or 128GB of RAM
socket 2011

[17:52]

mercutio

uusually when its' hard is if you have multiple things accesing something, and it doesn't get rid of it when it's no longer needed
firefox used to lock up when web pages were buusy
at least chrome's lockups don't have as much impact

[17:52]

m0unds

it has a single thread for rendering and loading iirc
it only containerizes plugins
there's been some ongoing effort to make it a multiprocess browser so it'll have dedicated ui and rendering threads so it doesn't hang up

mnathani

chrome uses different processes for each tab, correct?

m0unds

but that's been ongoing since like 2008
haha
yep
so does IE

mercutio

the thing is, i do notice that people often have slow chrome issuues with <= 8gb ram

m0unds

IE has since before chrome was released

mercutio

and not everyone knows that ram is cheap and you can juust get another 16gb.
and some desktop boards only have two slots.

mnathani

are you guys browsing a lot of video based sites?

mercutio

mnathani: evrey site has videos now
they juust pause them sometimes

m0unds

nah

mercutio

like news sites all have videos
facebook has videos
etc

m0unds

i use ghostery to suppress stuff on news sites
and suppress things like discus (don't care about comments) and livefyre

mercutio

the local news site here has these auto play in 5 second videos
you have to click don't play
it's bloody annoying

m0unds

ghostery typically just blocks those players from loading

mercutio

because it doesn't rmeember don't play for future videos

m0unds

shows a placeholder that lets you load it if you want it

mercutio

ahh
the thing is every pluugin slows chrome down too :/

m0unds

i configure it to block everything and whitelist stuff i know i want like spotify's embeddable player, or soundcloud
well, it's sort of a tradeoff
i'd rather not be bothered w/idiots' comments on every article or autoplay videos everywhere
and only see that stuff when i want to
and the trade off is that it's another plugin but it also loads less shit on every site

mercutio

heh

[17:56]

m0unds

https://www.ghostery.com/en/ i like it quite a lot

[17:57]

mercutio

fwiw i restarted my browser after seeing such high memory use

[17:57]

m0unds

have you tried opera since they rebased on chromium?

[18:02]

mercutio

yeah it was terrible
it may be better now

[18:02]

m0unds

i used to use opera a lot back when they were working on kraken and presto
i didn't like that i couldn't tell it to use a custom search engine

[18:02]

mercutio

hmm wehre's update

m0unds

it just wanted me to use google, bing, ask or yahoo

mercutio

i can hardly read the version
and it won't scale it

BryceBot

That's what she said!!

mercutio

1.0.94.2
first snapshot feb
ok
i need a newer version

m0unds

`i think i had it on my macbook but reinstalled fresh w/mavericks because of an issue with upgrading causing stuttering
(that's the machine i'm on now)

[18:04]

mercutio

they're up to tp3
oh and about:version text got bigger but you still can't scale it :)
ok it's ugly and slow

[18:05]

m0unds

lol

[18:06]

mercutio

i liked how opera was fast
now it seems to do this weird thing with red to blue
like you're not loading a page and it's read and it's loaded and it's boue?
blue?
and it seems pretty intrusive

[18:06]

grody

not sure about these new theme
i loved opera
was first proper tabbed browser long before others picked up on that
they switched the engine from their own to webkit/mozilla one iirc
then it it went crap

[18:16]

mercutio

yeah
their engine seeme dfine

[18:19]

grody

i do still have an older ASA opera i use for general browsing... nice and fast
it's mobile browsers atm im uffing about.. dolphin is by far the fastest, but it does weird things on android.. but tampermonkey support makes me like it more
all the others have this major hang loading/rendering certain pages, even on high end devices which reminds me of myspace/gif laden blog days

[18:19]

m0unds

yea, the old engine was presto and kraken for jscript iirc
was faster than anything at the time they introduced it
i think it was just too much work to keep at it
webkit is "good enough"

[18:21]

grody

and little return too

[18:22]

m0unds

yep
also no plugins or anything
i imagine that was a bear for them; hard to get folks to use a browser when you have no extensions

[18:22]

grody

opera had a torrent client built in too.. was good enough for most things.. java did work if you poked and flash worked..

m0unds

i remember when they rolled out initial support for stuff before they switched to webkit, it was a mess
lastpass barely work
mail client too

grody

at the time that was more than enough

m0unds

yeah, i liked it a lot
used it for years
loved being able to make custom keyboard shortcuts

grody

no memory savaging (compared to most)
leave it open for days and still be responsive

[18:24]

m0unds

yea, smooth scrolling almost as good as IE too

[18:24]

grody

see, it's all these fracking script kiddies that have forced the hand of severe security measures that are breaking things

[18:24]

mercutio

scrolling is a huge peeve of mine these days
it used to really bug me with onboard video on cheap pc's years back.
being choppy and slow
but hardware acceleration fixed most of that
and now some things are still slow :/

[18:26]

grody

this laptop is weird... i sent that to another channel and it landed up partly here and in another terminal :/
not sure what is going on with web browsers atm

[18:27]

mercutio

i think the general problem with scrolling on web pages is thaet it's synced to page loading
so if it hasn't got the page content figured out lower down the page it can't scroll at a consistent smooth rate down the page
and i'd rather it focused on the scrolling before the content, and gave a smoother experience.

[18:27]

grody

have you ever used Vine?

[18:28]

mercutio

don't think so
what's that

[18:28]

grody

that is epic smooth and the video content seems to load instantly

[18:28]

mercutio

did you ever use dos?

grody

https://vine.co/

mercutio

people figured out how to do smooth scrolling on dos

grody

sadly

mercutio

with tapping the harwdare
there were these cool "text viewers" etc
afaik they just hacked the character set
they could do it in text mode.

grody

i used to be bugged with slow scrolling.. i still see it on linux/bsd sometimes on slow outputs

[18:30]

m0unds

yea
safari and whatever current version of IE is on win8 have the nicest scrolling i've seen

[18:30]

grody

if i 'ls -R /' on this terminal, it outputs at what seems stupid fast... but if i drop to native console (alt+fn1) it has a hanging to the scroll

[18:31]

m0unds

google is supposedly looking to replicate the same method IE uses in chrome at some point

[18:31]

grody

i do quite like IE on this TP/IP

m0unds

have you tried out the dev tools in it?
profiling and whatnot?

grody

never used to be a fan of it, but for quite browsing and hitting up random links it copes well

m0unds

probably uses the same key - f12 to launch it

grody

nope.. curious

m0unds

not sure if it's implemented in edge yet

[18:33]

grody

oh crap wth at that start menu
its like they are taking "subtle" ideas from Unity

[18:34]

m0unds

my new idiot neighbors got a car alarm installed and they let it go off 30-60 seconds every time they try to get in their car

[18:35]

BryceBot

That's what she said!!

[18:35]

m0unds

every day, 4-5 times a day
it's annoying as shit
haha

[18:35]

grody

be funny if someone nicked it and it never went off at all

[18:36]

m0unds

yeah
or if someone snagged the car and no one noticed because they let the alarm go of all the time
haha
just driving down the road w/the alarm going off like GTA

[18:37]

grody

hahahaha

[18:37]

mercutio

i still want my terminal to not flicker when scrolling
actually linux has vsync issues in general.

[18:37]

m0unds

haha, i'd argue more than just vsync issues

mercutio

heh
i was looking at urxvt code a while back

grody

on some terminals i've seen the scrolling cause tearing in the window

mercutio

this new async X stuff, i didn't find much documentation for it

m0unds

i finally gave up my arch install - my experiment was installing it and updating it when i used it, and if it ever broke to the point that i'd have to do something out of the ordinary to fix it, i'd kill it

mercutio

it's not chronically bad, it's just niggly bad.
m0unds: what happened?

m0unds

(i'd check update notes on their mailing list or board to see if i had to do anything special, and i would do it if that was the case, otherwise i'd just blindly take updates)
it failed to boot after the last update round i did a month ago
lasted 18 mos before i hosed it to needing to actually work to get anything running

mercutio

weird.
i've been running it over that time and i've been fine.

m0unds

yea, didn't care enough to figure it out, that was the experiment
only occasionally used it (like, maybe once a month if that)

[18:40]

grody

i had that with arch before.. they change quite a few things and boom

[18:40]

m0unds

i used to do it with fedora, but fedora routinely broke so it wasn't fun
arch was fun because i actually like it
and i'm not a huge fan of linux desktops
by any stretch

[18:40]

grody

im very careful about what im doing with this one atm.. until i get my arp back up properly its a small effort hanging on a hinge

m0unds

but it worked and as long as i always checked their stuff for special cases, it was fine

grody

ahh you used it as a desktop.. im running this headless

m0unds

i ran arch on a server for over a year for personal stuff

mercutio

my desktop doesn't look much different to how it looked 15 years ago

m0unds

it was great, didn't have any issues whatsoever (so long as i remembered to check before updating..haha)

grody

this is meant to be my personal file/media server for the home network, but when i fubar the vps up, i had to make a fast and rapid switch

m0unds

the provider i had the VM on were dicks about an issue i found w/their image, mainly that they didn't take the image before signing the keys for updates
so you'd get errors and shit when you tried to run pacman

mercutio

well mayhbe 14.

m0unds

also building enough entropy on xen to generate keys sucked, but that was the case w/netbsd on xen too

mercutio

m0unds: what do you mean?

m0unds

pacman-init was run before you installed

mercutio

didn't take the image before signing the keys?

m0unds

so you'd get errors w/stuff not lining up
so you'd have to nuke it and start over and run pacman-key and whatnot
or whatever the command is

mercutio

is there something special you have to do?
hmm

m0unds

on a fresh install, there's a command to pull down the keys and verify sigs
before allowing install of updates
they did that part of it, but you got your own set of keys w/the vm
so the signing key was different than what was used to sign the stuff on the img

mercutio

m0unds

so it would freak out that there was an inconsistency
because your vm's key was different than the signing key

mercutio

i hate most distribuuution templates with vm's.

m0unds

but linode (i'll say it) were not very nice when i pointed it out
and blamed me for it
but quitely fixed it on the next go-around

mercutio

the popuular free ones around install sendmail on ubuntu :/

m0unds

s/quitely/quietly

BryceBot

<m0unds> but quietly fixed it on the next go-around

mercutio

i'm doing an arch template for arp
there are a couple of issues

m0unds

cool

mercutio

i really should get back to it.

grody

i hate that, i want the ability to manually install from an unfettled iso

mercutio

it's just ipv6 and setting the passwords properly.

m0unds

yeah, that's why i'm back with arp. just wanted to burn my $100someodd in credit w/linode

grody

hehe

mercutio

i haven't done ipv6 with arp yet, it shouldn't be too complicated.
err ipv6 with arch

m0unds

i can't get used to ip addr stuff
i'm so used to ifconfig

grody

im just utilizing the standard /64 atm.. no need for more on mine

m0unds

haha

mercutio

i like the new ip stuff

m0unds

i used my old arp vm to provide ipv6 via tunnel before comcast rolled out native stuff

grody

i do want to expand this though and put a pfsense vm in front of the fbsd one

mercutio

but i hate ip's documentation
and some things are confusing

grody

yea ip is weird

m0unds

so i had the /48 and split it off into a few chunks for my home network
but now that i have native i don't need the extra addresses so i just roll w/the /64

mercutio

yeah it's cool that arp do /64

m0unds

yeah, and not w/dhcp

mercutio

solusvm gives out individual ip's.

m0unds

or weird kludgy shit
or that
god

grody

hehe

m0unds

solus is awful
hahaha

mercutio

m0unds: it's the standard
but yes it's awful.

m0unds

i had a vm get wiped w/a provider who got hit w/the solus security "zero day" bug a couple years ago

mercutio

once uupon a time i thought it'd be a cool idea to try doing something like solusvm that didn't suck
but then i woke up and realised it'd just be a huge pita.

m0unds

someone gained access to host boxes and killed a bunch of vms

mercutio

and you'd have to deal with idiots that all want to run their own virtualisation providers :/

[18:49]

m0unds

i just said screw it and terminated my acct and deployed my backups to arp

[18:49]

mercutio

yeah the problem with arp is it's only in one location :(
so if you want to get vm's in other locations you have to use someone else :(
the control panel etc is all fine by me.

[18:49]

m0unds

i like LA, it's close network-wise to me (was great when i tunneled ipv6, added no appreciable amount of latency)

[18:50]

mercutio

i mean there's room for improvement, but it doesn't annoy me.
i dunno i have fvm's for network testing partially
so having in different locations is handy

[18:50]

m0unds

i do nothing fun w/this vm, it's just personal site stuff, irc and teamspeak

[18:51]

mnathani

anyone into minecraft?

[18:51]

m0unds

used to be
ran a server for friends for a couple years

[18:51]

mercutio

i used to play openttd :/
and ran a server.

mnathani

did you ever pay to play?

m0unds

how do you mean?

mercutio

i never got the point of minecraft.

m0unds

building stuff
we built a bacon machine under someone's house
lava + pig spawner + glass enclosure
it squeals every 10 seconds

BryceBot

That's what she said!!

[18:53]

m0unds

built a big rail system. you could hop in a minecart and ride it from house to house
occasionally creepers would blow up a track section and you'd ride it into a pit and either drown or just fall out

[18:53]

staticsafe

heh

[18:53]

m0unds

staticsafe: how's the euro truck biz? ;)
i keep hearing that's a fun sim

[18:54]

staticsafe

its going well, there is a new expansion coming out on the 7th, adds Scandinavian countries

[18:54]

m0unds

sweet

[18:55]

staticsafe

set up one of my BGP sessions, waiting on them to export my prefixes as well
http://pastie.org/private/sofrlgwv62tcfcxftv2haa
and give me an actual feed lol

[18:59]

mnathani

is your ASN 16 or 32 bit?

[18:59]

staticsafe

[18:59]

m0unds

cool

[19:00]

......... (idle for 43mn)

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himuraken has joined #arpnetworks

[19:43]

m0unds

eurotruck looks fun, but i don't think i need another sim for now
watched a couple videos of it, then remembered i have 4 flight sims, two driving sims and a train sim on my pc right now

[19:49]

brycec

lol
I very rarely reboot to Windows to play games, but ETS2 is one of my fav sims, great for kicking back and relaxying

[19:50]

m0unds

x-plane, fsx and dcs are probably most most regularly used sims though. i love me some planes.
that's why i bought train simulator whatever it is, years ago

[19:50]

brycec

I play KSP and SE most often. I enjoy relaxing and goofing off.

m0unds

ksp is so fun

brycec

(Space Engineers is not unlike Minecraft in many respects, but in spaaaace)

m0unds

i need to try it again - some version of unity they rolled up to caused some annoying ticking in my headphones that annoyed me

brycec

(It's all just "playing with legs" to me)