[13:23] *** mnathani_ has joined #arpnetworks [13:24] @weather -v yyz [13:24] Toronto-Pearson International, Ontario: Overcast ☁ 61°F (16°C), Humidity: 52%, Wind: From the SE at 8 MPH, Pressure: 30.29inHg (1026mb) and falling, Dewpoint: 43°F (6°C), Visibility: 15Mi (24km), UV index: 2, Sunrise 06:05, Sunset: 20:25, Lunar phase: Full moon [13:24] Tuesday: Partly Cloudy 61°F/48°F (16°C/9°C) | Wednesday: Partly Cloudy 71°F/50°F (22°C/10°C) | Thursday: Partly Cloudy 76°F/56°F (24°C/13°C) | Friday: Clear 84°F/61°F (29°C/16°C) [13:24] The average high for this date is 61°F (16°C), and the record of 82°F (27°C) was set in 2000. The average low is 44°F (6°C), and the record of 26°F (-3°C) was set in 2002 [13:39] *** himuraken has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) [13:43] *** Hien has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) [13:50] *** Hien has joined #arpnetworks [15:27] *** dj_goku_ has joined #arpnetworks [15:30] *** Seju has joined #arpnetworks [15:31] *** Seji has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) [15:31] *** dj_goku has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) [15:53] hmm.. anyone else tinkering with windows 10TP? [15:53] mine is now undergoing some kind of reinstall/upgrade [15:54] @weather sou [15:54] Southampton International, United Kingdom: Mostly Cloudy ☁ 52°F (11°C), Humidity: 76%, Wind: From the SW at 20 MPH Gusting to 33 MPH -- For more details including the forecast and almanac, see http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/getForecast?query=50.94987869,-1.35853004 or re-request this with: @weather -v sou [15:54] neat [16:02] grody: i've got windows 10tp [16:03] grody: are you on slow path? [16:03] the updates take forever. [16:03] it does this hge reinstall thing that takes over 20 minutes [16:06] i've got a black screen, white text, blue disc with a percentile mark.. telling me it's installing windows [16:06] it didn't even look like this installing TP [16:09] http://imgur.com/EjXenwU [16:11] yea, it's doing a release upgrade [16:13] ahh.. just as i was about to try testing some android devel apps on it [16:13] people are shitting on 8.x as it seems some of the stuff doesn't work.. i thought what the hell [16:13] on 8.x what? [16:13] windows [16:14] which stuff doesn't work? dev-related? [16:14] i cant get my sony semc to work in 8.1 but had flashtool working in 10, but fastboot wouldn't work [16:14] oh [16:14] i have the sdk on my win8 box and it works fine [16:14] driver related issues i think [16:14] yeah, sounds like it [16:14] not w/a sony device in my case though [16:15] im starting to dislike sony fast [16:15] although less than samsung [16:15] but the drivers for my phone were acquired via windows update without me doing anything [16:15] i wish they'd step up their mobile imaging game [16:15] they're supposed to be removing some of the "barriers" that existed bw mobile and camera software engineering [16:15] so i hope that means they get some of the algorithms in their cameras ported to mobile cameras [16:15] yea some devices seem ok with it, but these sonys have a special flash mode outside of adb/fastboot [16:16] that's weird [16:16] is it like the ODIN stuff for samsung devices? [16:16] S1 flash protocol or something [16:16] where you have to bootstrap your device flashing with some middleware thing [16:17] yea [16:17] lame [16:17] however ODIN dies if you dd the entire internal emmc [16:18] this S1 mode you can still flash firmware back to it if you were stupid enough to do that [16:19] seems the samsungs store EVERYTHING on the emmc, wipe it and it wont even power up anymore [16:20] not sure wtf the sonys do, but did it for wth (was a dead device anyway) and was still able to bring it into that mode :/ [16:54] was a new windows 10 tp released? [16:56] or insider preview as it is now called [17:20] mnathani_: it changed names. [17:20] i can't remember to what [17:21] ok windows 10 pro insider preview build 10074 is what i have [17:21] yea, from technical preview to insider preview (which is what the name always was for mobile) [17:21] three days in a row w/heavy thunderstorms. weird weather for here. [17:22] sounds exciting [17:22] @weather akl [17:22] Auckland International, New Zealand: Scattered Clouds 70°F (21°C), Humidity: 68%, Wind: From the North at 15 MPH -- For more details including the forecast and almanac, see http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/getForecast?query=-37.00805664,174.79167175 or re-request this with: @weather -v akl [17:22] our typical summer weather is thunderstorms most afternoons [17:22] such boring weather here. [17:22] but we usually just have really heavy wind in the spring [17:23] wind is boring :( [17:23] i much prefer thunderstorms. [17:23] i like it when it's kind of warm and stormy [17:23] like a nice pleasant thuunderstorm with lots of exciting lightening [17:24] yea, the wind we get is usually pretty annoying [17:24] where the air can feel electric :) [17:24] wind can be kind of draining [17:24] spring and late fall are the worst here [17:24] apparently it's sub-tropical here now, so we don't have 4 seasons. [17:24] ~105km/h those times of year [17:24] ouuch [17:24] is that gust? [17:24] nah, sustained, especially in winter [17:25] late fall winter [17:25] damn that sucks [17:25] it sucks [17:25] above 60k starts getting annoying i reckon [17:25] blows shingles of roofs like crazy [17:25] yeah [17:25] i can handle it to that point [17:25] mercutio: are you running in a VM or on physical Hardware? [17:25] one year, it lifted an improperly installed radio rig off a verizon wireless tower [17:25] threw it on the ground [17:25] mnathani_: running what? [17:25] windows 10 [17:25] physical [17:25] i7-3770, 32gb ram, samsung 850 pro 256gb [17:26] it still runs out of memory, bloody windows and it's memory leaks. [17:26] any performance boost compared to Win 8? [17:26] well i went from windows 2008 [17:26] and it boots quicker than windows 2008 [17:27] performance wise minor things like opening up directories in explorer seems faster. [17:27] win8 boots pretty fast [17:27] i think my power on to desktop is like 15 seconds [17:27] both 2k8 and 10 are on uefi [17:27] with ssd [17:27] boot speed isn't really the biggest issue with windows these days [17:27] it's still got the bloody annoying "locking up" of the uuser interface [17:27] i had to diagnose a slow boot issue, turned out teamviewer was adding almost 50 seconds to boot time [17:27] that os/2 had :/ [17:28] i don't really notice any ui lock-ups [17:28] it's really noticable when you use synergy [17:28] like explorer hanging? [17:28] as you're typing and it sticks down on a key [17:28] i don't think i've ever seen that in normal use [17:28] like the whole os locking as you start a 3d application [17:28] but i don't use synergy [17:28] like chrome slowing the whole system to a crawl. [17:28] my windows pc is almost explicitly used for 3d stuff [17:28] like swapping between 3d app and back to windowis taking forever [17:29] games and whatnot [17:29] i dunno i seem to like to hit issues :/ [17:29] chrome i have to restart all of the time [17:29] chrome is getting to be more and more of a POS [17:29] my "low" memory usage is like 6gb [17:29] you might try some of the chromium builds instead of mainline chrome [17:29] right now i'm using 204.gb? [17:29] i found they were annoying in other ways, but i had fewer perf issues [17:29] i dunno how to read it [17:29] http://chromium.woolyss.com/ [17:30] this dude builds chromium for windows, but last time i checked, it's incapable of automatically updating [17:30] https://weallsee.net/winmem.png [17:30] jeez, what do you have running? [17:30] chrome [17:31] that's it? really? [17:31] oh skype too [17:31] skype is using up 200mb of ram [17:31] yeah there's a few windows open in chrome [17:32] have you looked at the details tab or whatever it is in taskmgr? [17:32] Google Chrome 43.0.2357.45 [17:32] you can add additional columns w/cached vs in use vs committed memory use [17:32] 13,540,388k 54,233k 13,594,621k 16,401,432 k 9,800,920 k [17:32] the first is private [17:32] the fourth is virtual memory private [17:33] yeah chrome is such an insane memory hog [17:33] i stopped using firefox years ago because of that [17:33] often saw it referred to as fatfox [17:33] what do you recommend? [17:33] i use chrome, but i'm not a huge fan [17:33] i mean i upgraded from 16gb of ram to 32gb [17:34] because i was running out of memory.. [17:34] like i mentioned, i tried the chromium builds and those had other issues like flash not working sometimes [17:34] since they don't include pepperflash [17:34] this is on windows though [17:34] and sometimes other little quirks, as they're built on more recent code than the stable chrome stuff [17:34] yeah [17:34] on linux i've started to usue firefox [17:34] that link i sent is builds for windows and osx [17:34] because chrome seems to keep breaking pages [17:35] http://chromium.woolyss.com/ [17:35] scroll down a little [17:35] i buuilt chrome from source once [17:35] oh, looks like he started including flash and html av [17:35] nice [17:35] i like the cloud sync stuff [17:35] http://chromium.woolyss.com/#features [17:35] it's reall handy for going to things quickly on my cellphone [17:35] yeah [17:35] that's the only reason i still use chrome [17:35] that and auto updates [17:35] haha [17:36] although pushbullet can make it a little easier, you have to actively push links instead of just "having" them there [17:36] the auto updates doesn't delete old versions [17:36] so it gets more and more bloaty [17:36] oh, yeah [17:36] i really want some kind of sync stuff that isn't google [17:36] xmarks sucks [17:36] but i am not going to develop it myself [17:36] i just don't have the ressources to [17:37] but it's getting silly being tied into google infrastructure [17:37] yep [17:37] and someone should do open soruce versions of core android apps [17:37] google stopped maintaing a lot of AOSP stuff [17:37] which is why the "open source" argument wrt android is amusing to me [17:37] it's getting more and more closed each release [17:38] you get lower SDK API levels with full open source builds because a lot of the newer stuff is included w/google play svcs [17:39] *** mnathani_ has quit IRC () [17:39] i don't like arstechnica too much, but there was an article they posted last year or the year before about how android keeps getting more and more closed each release and how google is slowly abandoning maintenance of AOSP apps because they provide closed source alternatives on most android powered devices [17:40] sigh [17:40] i acutally want to see development to move towards c, objective-c, d, or something [17:40] That's what she said!! [17:40] this java crap gets in the way [17:41] i've noticed people are getting more and more keen on javscript over time [17:43] i used to use links in linux to use less memory [17:43] it's really hard navigating now days in links [17:43] but something more basic seems like a good idea :) [17:44] like if 8gb is enough for web browsing easily that'd be a good goal. [17:44] *** mnathani_ has joined #arpnetworks [17:44] if a test web page took up only 64mb of ram etc. [17:45] ok so wikipedia main page takes up 83mb of ram [17:46] wow spartan takes uup 23.2mb of process ram for just showing that page [17:46] oh ther's another process using 74.4mb [17:46] so yeh [17:46] it's insane [17:47] i think facebook uses about half a gig [17:47] i don't really care about memory use that much [17:48] i didn't for ages. [17:48] it's just that you can't uupgrade desktops to more than 32gb. [17:48] right [17:48] and it's kind of stupid when chrome will take ilke half of that memory [17:48] also it gets slow [17:48] this is making me want to fire up my PC and look [17:48] and accessing a large amount of memory tends to use up more cpu too [17:48] because i'm pretty sure i rarely break 12-16GB total w/normal use [17:48] server stuff isn't as bad as desktop stuff these days [17:49] chromium has heaps of proceses so it's harder [17:50] also things like the spdy indicator icon use 18mb of ram [17:50] I am running 24 GB on my Windows box [17:50] 24gb is probably fine [17:50] and keep running into low memory [17:50] lots of chrome tabs [17:50] and vms [17:50] 32gb isn't really a lot better than 16gb. [17:51] it juust delays the amount of time betwween it running out of ram [17:51] ahh i'm not doing any vm's. [17:51] are memory leaks hard to fix? [17:51] by the vendors [17:51] tbh, i only stuck the ram in here because windows was rnuning out of ram and saying it had to shut down something [17:51] it depends, in code like chrome probably yes. [17:52] chrome is still way faster than IE or Opera or Firefox [17:52] FWIW, workstation boards support up to 64 or 128GB of RAM [17:52] socket 2011 [17:52] uusually when its' hard is if you have multiple things accesing something, and it doesn't get rid of it when it's no longer needed [17:52] firefox used to lock up when web pages were buusy [17:53] at least chrome's lockups don't have as much impact [17:53] it has a single thread for rendering and loading iirc [17:53] it only containerizes plugins [17:53] there's been some ongoing effort to make it a multiprocess browser so it'll have dedicated ui and rendering threads so it doesn't hang up [17:53] chrome uses different processes for each tab, correct? [17:53] but that's been ongoing since like 2008 [17:53] haha [17:53] yep [17:53] so does IE [17:53] the thing is, i do notice that people often have slow chrome issuues with <= 8gb ram [17:53] IE has since before chrome was released [17:53] and not everyone knows that ram is cheap and you can juust get another 16gb. [17:54] and some desktop boards only have two slots. [17:54] are you guys browsing a lot of video based sites? [17:54] mnathani: evrey site has videos now [17:54] they juust pause them sometimes [17:54] nah [17:54] like news sites all have videos [17:54] facebook has videos [17:54] etc [17:54] i use ghostery to suppress stuff on news sites [17:54] and suppress things like discus (don't care about comments) and livefyre [17:54] the local news site here has these auto play in 5 second videos [17:54] you have to click don't play [17:55] it's bloody annoying [17:55] ghostery typically just blocks those players from loading [17:55] because it doesn't rmeember don't play for future videos [17:55] shows a placeholder that lets you load it if you want it [17:55] ahh [17:55] the thing is every pluugin slows chrome down too :/ [17:55] i configure it to block everything and whitelist stuff i know i want like spotify's embeddable player, or soundcloud [17:55] well, it's sort of a tradeoff [17:56] i'd rather not be bothered w/idiots' comments on every article or autoplay videos everywhere [17:56] and only see that stuff when i want to [17:56] and the trade off is that it's another plugin but it also loads less shit on every site [17:56] heh [17:57] https://www.ghostery.com/en/ i like it quite a lot [17:57] fwiw i restarted my browser after seeing such high memory use [18:02] have you tried opera since they rebased on chromium? [18:02] yeah it was terrible [18:02] it may be better now [18:02] i used to use opera a lot back when they were working on kraken and presto [18:02] i didn't like that i couldn't tell it to use a custom search engine [18:03] hmm wehre's update [18:03] it just wanted me to use google, bing, ask or yahoo [18:03] i can hardly read the version [18:03] and it won't scale it [18:03] That's what she said!! [18:03] 1.0.94.2 [18:04] first snapshot feb [18:04] ok [18:04] i need a newer version [18:04] `i think i had it on my macbook but reinstalled fresh w/mavericks because of an issue with upgrading causing stuttering [18:05] (that's the machine i'm on now) [18:05] they're up to tp3 [18:05] oh and about:version text got bigger but you still can't scale it :) [18:06] ok it's ugly and slow [18:06] lol [18:06] i liked how opera was fast [18:07] now it seems to do this weird thing with red to blue [18:07] like you're not loading a page and it's read and it's loaded and it's boue? [18:07] blue? [18:07] and it seems pretty intrusive [18:16] not sure about these new theme [18:17] i loved opera [18:17] was first proper tabbed browser long before others picked up on that [18:18] they switched the engine from their own to webkit/mozilla one iirc [18:18] then it it went crap [18:19] yeah [18:19] their engine seeme dfine [18:19] i do still have an older ASA opera i use for general browsing... nice and fast [18:21] it's mobile browsers atm im uffing about.. dolphin is by far the fastest, but it does weird things on android.. but tampermonkey support makes me like it more [18:21] all the others have this major hang loading/rendering certain pages, even on high end devices which reminds me of myspace/gif laden blog days [18:21] yea, the old engine was presto and kraken for jscript iirc [18:22] was faster than anything at the time they introduced it [18:22] i think it was just too much work to keep at it [18:22] webkit is "good enough" [18:22] and little return too [18:22] yep [18:22] also no plugins or anything [18:22] i imagine that was a bear for them; hard to get folks to use a browser when you have no extensions [18:23] opera had a torrent client built in too.. was good enough for most things.. java did work if you poked and flash worked.. [18:23] i remember when they rolled out initial support for stuff before they switched to webkit, it was a mess [18:23] lastpass barely work [18:23] mail client too [18:23] at the time that was more than enough [18:23] yeah, i liked it a lot [18:23] used it for years [18:23] loved being able to make custom keyboard shortcuts [18:24] no memory savaging (compared to most) [18:24] leave it open for days and still be responsive [18:24] yea, smooth scrolling almost as good as IE too [18:24] see, it's all these fracking script kiddies that have forced the hand of severe security measures that are breaking things [18:26] scrolling is a huge peeve of mine these days [18:26] it used to really bug me with onboard video on cheap pc's years back. [18:26] being choppy and slow [18:26] but hardware acceleration fixed most of that [18:26] and now some things are still slow :/ [18:27] this laptop is weird... i sent that to another channel and it landed up partly here and in another terminal :/ [18:27] not sure what is going on with web browsers atm [18:27] i think the general problem with scrolling on web pages is thaet it's synced to page loading [18:28] so if it hasn't got the page content figured out lower down the page it can't scroll at a consistent smooth rate down the page [18:28] and i'd rather it focused on the scrolling before the content, and gave a smoother experience. [18:28] have you ever used Vine? [18:28] don't think so [18:28] what's that [18:28] that is epic smooth and the video content seems to load instantly [18:29] did you ever use dos? [18:29] https://vine.co/ [18:29] people figured out how to do smooth scrolling on dos [18:29] sadly [18:29] with tapping the harwdare [18:29] there were these cool "text viewers" etc [18:29] afaik they just hacked the character set [18:29] they could do it in text mode. [18:30] i used to be bugged with slow scrolling.. i still see it on linux/bsd sometimes on slow outputs [18:30] yea [18:30] safari and whatever current version of IE is on win8 have the nicest scrolling i've seen [18:31] if i 'ls -R /' on this terminal, it outputs at what seems stupid fast... but if i drop to native console (alt+fn1) it has a hanging to the scroll [18:31] google is supposedly looking to replicate the same method IE uses in chrome at some point [18:32] i do quite like IE on this TP/IP [18:32] have you tried out the dev tools in it? [18:32] profiling and whatnot? [18:32] never used to be a fan of it, but for quite browsing and hitting up random links it copes well [18:32] probably uses the same key - f12 to launch it [18:32] nope.. curious [18:33] not sure if it's implemented in edge yet [18:34] oh crap wth at that start menu [18:34] its like they are taking "subtle" ideas from Unity [18:35] my new idiot neighbors got a car alarm installed and they let it go off 30-60 seconds every time they try to get in their car [18:35] That's what she said!! [18:35] every day, 4-5 times a day [18:35] it's annoying as shit [18:35] haha [18:36] be funny if someone nicked it and it never went off at all [18:37] yeah [18:37] or if someone snagged the car and no one noticed because they let the alarm go of all the time [18:37] haha [18:37] just driving down the road w/the alarm going off like GTA [18:37] hahahaha [18:37] i still want my terminal to not flicker when scrolling [18:37] actually linux has vsync issues in general. [18:38] haha, i'd argue more than just vsync issues [18:38] heh [18:38] i was looking at urxvt code a while back [18:38] on some terminals i've seen the scrolling cause tearing in the window [18:38] this new async X stuff, i didn't find much documentation for it [18:39] i finally gave up my arch install - my experiment was installing it and updating it when i used it, and if it ever broke to the point that i'd have to do something out of the ordinary to fix it, i'd kill it [18:39] it's not chronically bad, it's just niggly bad. [18:39] m0unds: what happened? [18:39] (i'd check update notes on their mailing list or board to see if i had to do anything special, and i would do it if that was the case, otherwise i'd just blindly take updates) [18:39] it failed to boot after the last update round i did a month ago [18:39] lasted 18 mos before i hosed it to needing to actually work to get anything running [18:39] weird. [18:40] i've been running it over that time and i've been fine. [18:40] yea, didn't care enough to figure it out, that was the experiment [18:40] only occasionally used it (like, maybe once a month if that) [18:40] i had that with arch before.. they change quite a few things and boom [18:40] i used to do it with fedora, but fedora routinely broke so it wasn't fun [18:40] arch was fun because i actually like it [18:41] and i'm not a huge fan of linux desktops [18:41] by any stretch [18:41] im very careful about what im doing with this one atm.. until i get my arp back up properly its a small effort hanging on a hinge [18:41] but it worked and as long as i always checked their stuff for special cases, it was fine [18:41] ahh you used it as a desktop.. im running this headless [18:41] i ran arch on a server for over a year for personal stuff [18:41] my desktop doesn't look much different to how it looked 15 years ago [18:42] it was great, didn't have any issues whatsoever (so long as i remembered to check before updating..haha) [18:42] this is meant to be my personal file/media server for the home network, but when i fubar the vps up, i had to make a fast and rapid switch [18:42] the provider i had the VM on were dicks about an issue i found w/their image, mainly that they didn't take the image before signing the keys for updates [18:42] so you'd get errors and shit when you tried to run pacman [18:42] well mayhbe 14. [18:43] also building enough entropy on xen to generate keys sucked, but that was the case w/netbsd on xen too [18:43] m0unds: what do you mean? [18:43] pacman-init was run before you installed [18:43] didn't take the image before signing the keys? [18:43] so you'd get errors w/stuff not lining up [18:43] so you'd have to nuke it and start over and run pacman-key and whatnot [18:44] or whatever the command is [18:44] is there something special you have to do? [18:44]