microsoft released an IDE for linux.
+osx+windows
weird isn't it
they've been supporting os x for a while
Less "weird" and more "smart"
yea
They seem to be turning their act around lately
their market value has been going up.
i know.  windows 10 is ... interesting..
they seem to be "sort of" listening
Relatively speaking, they're "really listening"
like obviously they're kind of big and moving slowly.
they're doing faster build cycles for windows 10 on fast path due to demand.
buut it wasn't surprising that some people would wnat fast build cycles.
Much of MSFT has been "this is how you do things, period" but now they're showing they're flexible, making products for a market rather than forming markets around products (see all their recent containerisation stuff)
lets them iterate faster
They've always had fast build cycles, but they were internal, tested internally by employees etc. For basically the first time, the rest of the world is getting to participate too.
users w/tech preview are sort of in a focus group
I see it as a beta
(but that's just semantics)
not even a beta
it's pre-beta
Yeah I see what you're saying ( and they're saying)
it helps that they can actually get input from people
m0unds: there's a lot of users in it.
i imagine it's frustrating to open up stuff and not actually actively receive feedback (like, users submitting stuff vs telemetry)
yes, i know
it is beta
(MSFT is very clear that it's pre-beta)
they were considering it alpha level the last i saw
like a month ago
if that
it depends how you consider beta things
no it doesn't
it's literally an alpha
haha
The difference being that Win10TP users get to shape the product, as opposed to beta testing which is solely for working out bugs.
it's not "release candidate" ish
they're still working out art and UX and shit
and core stuff
the tech preview for mobile devices doesn't even have final typography or anything
yeah i wonder how much stuff is nearing ready.
it's meant to be out this year
I'll be surprised if it makes it
yea, it's still rough
rumors said july, but i don't believe that at all
i'd guess oct/nov if anything
yeah i reckon oct/nov
it's hard to know how much developers have not yet pushed
http://www.fda.gov/ICECI/EnforcementActions/WarningLetters/2014/ucm415809.htm
Any way to see if I'll be up and running tonight? I think the time was 24 hours, kind of approaching that.
I'm surprised you're not up and running already. Did you at least get an email back from ARP?
I emailed to ask status and got someone who was going to talk to eng.
But yeah, I figured the 24 hours was just to be safe.
I was thinking in the way of an order confirmation
Yeah, I got that.
I don't have a portal ID or anything, so I can't even start setting up the crt and getting that signed so I can just install as soon as the server is ready
your portal ID will be your email address, so you can generate your CSR now.
oh. sweet. thanks
sorressean: i think dedicated servers need site visit sometimes.
I just figured up_the_irons  lived in his server cage!
i don't think he does it.
well not normally i mean
ah nods.
did it say 24 hours?
Yeah. we're a couple hours away which is why I asked here.
up_the_irons isn't even the one that goes to the DC to make customisations :P
i think 24 hours is normally for vps's not dedicated.
Note that 24 isn't a guarantee or a promise
mercutio: Garry weighed in, it's on dedicated too if it's in-stock
brycec: he wsa talking about upgrades though.
mercutio: http://irclogger.arpnetworks.com/irclogger_log/arpnetworks?date=2015-04-28,Tue&sel=174#l170
cool.
i missed that, and it looks like iw as around :)
Anyhow - it may be that someone has to go down and build upgrade a machine for your order, sorressean, in which case it will take longer. I'd assume that you would be informed of that, but maybe it slipped through.
lol mercutio :)
(it happens)
brycec: he was getting 8gb more ram in the log
But maybe ARP already has an unused dedi with the upgrade installed
yeah maybe
(It would make sense to have units with commonly-requested upgrades ready)
ah nods. it's fine. I just have a lot of work to do before I can switch, so I thought I'd ask. :) thanks.
virtualisation makes that easier
And once you have your own dedi, you can run your own virtualisation :D
Yeah, I sort of overflow most vps plans.
sorressean: i mean self-virtualisation
it's not too hard to run kvm or xen or such
ah nods.
you get a /29 by default, so you can easily have real ip's on virtuals compared to server.
that might work if I really need to.
err on both virtual and main server.
10 has bhyve.
reduce your ttl's in advance though
because that's something you can do now.
y'know arp having redundant power by default is pretty cool.
duel NIC, too...
It's miles above the crap I'm running now
mercutio: were is the /29 listed? Just curious
oh
maybe it's /30
(And VPS come with a /30)
shit sorry about that
my dedicated has /29
i think it's $5 for /29
My dedicated has /29 too but it's $5/mo
ok cool.  sorry!
I wondered if I was being gypped is all :)
did you get a second hard-disk brycec ?
Have not
Can't really do that until I ditch some of the VPS' (shuffling money around)
(but I'm just the sysadmin, so changes have to be run up the ladder, explained, etc)
heh
In other ARP VPS news - Successfully upgraded a clone of my personal main VPS from Wheezy to Jessie
encryption and all
cool.
i still haven't figured out this mariadb bug
with ubuntu vivid
nice. I hated debian upgrades.
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mariadb-10.0/+bug/1447944
damn there still doesn't appear to be a nice working solution
Do most people run arp stuff for corporate/small business stuff?
Debian's upgrades have always gone pretty smoothly for me, and I'm happy to say this one was no different. With the sysvinit -> systemd change I was expecting more.
it works fine on ubuntu vivid straight install
sorressean: i think most people usue it for vpn's, personal small sites etc.
The upgrades usually aren't so bad, but MySQL has crashed along with dovecot and a couple others a few times.
but most people with dedicated servers would probably fit  closer to that.
Hm I could get rid of $45/mo worth of VPS, which equates to a second drive and a +20GB of RAM :D
dedicated seems a lot for a small site.
yeah
i kind of reckon hybrid would be cool.
like dedicated disks, dedicated cpu cores, vt-d passthrough of network
if you want lots of ram you kind of have to go dedicated.
like you have 16gb, right?
8gb of ram is actually fine for most servers though.  unutil you want to do virtualisation :)
Yeah. the second 8 is more just in case.
@exch 150 cad to pkr
150 CAD -> 124.72581109195 USD -> 12689.791109212 PKR (as of Wed, 29 Apr 2015 15:01:02 -0700)
sometimes stuff scales up on me.
That's what she said!!
yeah i reckon 16gb is better.
I probably could've compressed down for a vps, but the single core thing kind of messes with me.
heh.
they're quuad core+ht i think
the dedicated?
yeh
Yeah, they are.
The VPS only come with 1 core plus $2 per extra.
yeah
at least it tends to mean that cpu isn't oversold
I think this dedicated will work well. I'm compressing my personal server plus a linode for dev and a couple services onto it.
but it can be nice having more cpuu
have you had a vps with arp before?
I have. It's where I started learning BSD.
ahh ok
i wonder where i can buy a sandy bridge e3 cpu cheap
it's really hard to search for sandy bridge e3s :(
and hp do this weird thing, where they don't allow ivy bridge cpus on older servers.
There are some on newegg, but you'd have to watch it. all out of stock
Anyone built a desktophere with liquid cooling? I built my first one by myself, but I'm afraid I'll do the tubing wrong. Blind, so can't see the youtube videos. Was curious if tubes come pre-cut/etc.
I would think those details vary by kit
that's what I was thinking too.
Was just trying to avoid having someone do it for me.
(that costs)
(I'm sure it does.) I know there are whole prebuilt computers (from the big names, not just built by somebody at the local computer shop) with watercooling.
(To answer the question - no I've never built a water-cooled rig)
Yeah.
It's generally cheaper to build from ground up and I already have harddrives, so I wanted to do that.
I know some will shudder at the thought, but I've always found the stock cooler to be adequate, even with mild overclocking.
brycec:  maybe it depends on processor. my CPU runs pretty hot.
i5-2400 here, bios overclock from 3.1 to 3.2GHz, stable and relatively cool in the 40-50C range
Yeah, I'm running an AMD.
I haven't used an AMD in years, but they did run a bit warm back when I did
(I'm talking *years* - back when the Athlon64 was new)
I used to have an old AMD system on my desk that would overheat (90C+) pretty reliably in its later years. (When it was new, it was fine. And no amount of cleaning would help.)
mercutio: that's a cool hybrid idea
sorressean: lol i don't live in the cage.  i actually don't go down to the data center very much anymore.  My engineer, toeshred, goes down there; he lives only like 5 minutes away.
mercutio: ms has an ide for linux??
...and yes, i'm reading scrollback backwards
up_the_irons has been under a rock today, eh?
https://code.visualstudio.com/
Announced at their big developer conference today http://thenextweb.com/insider/2015/04/29/everything-microsoft-announced-at-its-build-developer-conference-day-1/
damn
You've got a bit to catch up on ;) But the tl;dr is pretty much "MSFT is improving"
up_the_irons: i had a question regarding the BGP sesion with VPS thing, I'm in the process of getting my ASN from ARIN and they require an invoice/agreement that you are providing transit/BGP for me, is this something you can do?
"Dear ARIN: I just want an ASN for funsies. Why do you need all this silly paperwork?" :p
brycec: its a bit annoying
To verify your intent to multi-home, reply and attach a copy of your signed connectivity agreement (or current bill/invoice for services) with each of the ISPs listed below:
etc.
heh I mean, I can see a reason to it. They don't want you wasting time, they don't want to be the ones hand-holding you getting it setup, etc.
sent up_the_irons an email regarding it
:P
lol at the "Dear ARIN" comment brycec
staticsafe: just print out an invoice then show them my "VPS with Direct Peering" on the website
I've never had to create formal paperwork for anyone getting an ASN (and many are getting fresh new 4 byte ASNs)
i'll put in a order
staticsafe: out of curiosity, why do you want an ASN and peering?  anycast?
yeah
http://www.slideshare.net/natmorris/anycast-on-a-shoe-string basically this, something to play around with
SlideShare: "Anycast on a shoe string @ DNS OARC 2014 Spring Meeting" by Nat Morris
and learn BGP in the real world
hrm, how much RAM will a full table take?
cool
depends on your BGP software
I recommend BIRD
ordered
werd
the most annoying part with ARIN is not the paperwork but the time they take to answer tickets
they used to be really fast
v4 requests are especially slow nowadays due to the volume of them
i used to write them like literally 10 pages of justification when getting IPs, and i think they just gave up reading and said "fuck, here, take the damn IPs"
heh
I always got IPs within 3 days
Granted, I've needed only to do it 4 times, and a while ago...
they gave me an Excel spreadsheet I could fill out with projected usage and what not
i never got that
i put everything in text/plain ;)
not my fault if they don't use a monospace font
heh
sorressean: there are some kits from XSPC and a few others that you have to assemble and fill yourself. there are also sealed self-contained water cooling systems made by corsair and another one branded by antec that work pretty well.
sorressean: the xspc ones have the tubes cut to an approximate length (based on common chassis sizes)
staticsafe: Are you from NZ?
nope
.ca
i did my own watercooling loop back in the pentium 4 days, but haven't touched any custom stuff since. i used one of the early corsair self-contained coolers, and it worked okay until the pump started chattering after a few years. now i stick to nice air coolers.
Wrong person.
m0unds: How loud was the pump (pre-chattering)?
the fans were louder
I had an aquarium as a kid and its air pump was louder than my computers' fans are today.
120mm
the custom one, i used an aquarium pump (eheim something or other)
So either loud fans or really quiet pump
quiet pump
fans were low rpm
Heh just checking that I'd understood your meaning :)
30dB
i have a noctua something or other monster cooler now, and i think it's actually louder than the corsair thing was
(air only, 140mm fans iirc)
http://noctua.at/main.php?show=productview&products_id=68&lng=en
christ u guys sent me like ten thousand tickets today
;)
heh
<.<
>.>
up_the_irons: only two of my tickets are action items...
that's what they all say... ;)
crap!  toeshred was just at the data center... coulda done your upgrade that I now see brycec ...
oh well
up_the_irons: I would've needed some notice anyways
ah ok
(I did ask about that in my ticket)
(and about the vlan thing)
don't think i've got there yet
ty up_the_irons re:Upgrades
np
(and now you have gotten there, good job Garry)
lol
Urm. I ordered a server with a 128gb SSD and got a 1tb HD
i hate power outages.
seems like chat was more active than normal :)
i gained like 10 megabit on my dsl sync at least.
A little bit. And congrats on the resync
i've always found adsl sync increases after a power outage.
vdsl increased much more..
Maybe your modem comes up faster than your DSL-neighbours
they run the margins high here.
i have to admit, my dsl link is pretty solid.. never seen is waiver from 79.7/19.9
and it'll get like 6db instead of 12db margin.  i wish they'd just let you run 6db margin normally
i mean stealing 10 megabit bandwidth due to conservativeness seems silly.
mind you upload they cap even.
i remember adsl days
grody: i'm at 45/10, but normally upload "could" do 18 megabit but they cap it
i had to bond two lines just to make it worth it
i imagine with 6db noise margin it'd be even better.
i have an adsl connection too, it's around 20 megabit
mercutio, yea, BT do two types of FTTC (vDSL here) upto 40/10 or upto 80/20
is 80/20 bonded?
im lukcy and live real damn close to a FTTC cab
My motto is "DSL: Not even once." (though I've used others' DSL and it made me sad.)
nah, single line
i'm around 300 metres from cabinet
so i doubt that'd be possible.
well not uuntil tech improves again.
physical line is about 130m
brycec: here dsl is more consistent than fibre.
no cable service here though, which is a shit
and cable is even worse.
i'd like a docsis for backup
cable has heaps of jitter, fibre just has pacing requirements.
nah, the cable provider here isn't too bad
which means it struggles to deal with bursts of traffic appropriately, it's more "hard limited"
can get cheap 50mbit off them
docsis is great technology
the main problem is that cables are too thick.
if you have enough divisions of cable, and don't keep users on legacy docsis 2 then docsis 3 is pretty great.
i daren't bond anything more into my current setup tbh
my setuup isn't bonded buut instead failover.
i have managed to tank both upload and download and it kinda took out 80% of my firewalls cpu
my router is juust bridging, and i'm terminating the vdsl on linux atm.
plus only have a 100mbit primary interface
i keep meaning to shift the adsl to it too, and setup vlans proeprly.
When you get your crt and openvpn.conf sent to you , are they attachments? I see links, but those just redirect to control panel. Wasn't sure if I was stupid or if he just forgot to attach.
i can check mine
i got an email from garry with attachments
I ended up with 1 tb instead of ssd, but I think I want the extra space anyway, so it's not a problem.
So everything is set.
i wish ssd's were 256gb :/
wow
mercutio:  thanks, I'll ping him back.
and i've lived off a 30GB vdisk for gooness knows
mercutio:  there are 256 gb ssds available.
I did not get attachments as I recall
sorressean: oh i didn't see.  i'm suing hard-disks anyway
ime reads always get cached with sufficient ram
so unless you need fast sync write performance it doesn't really matter
i mean it's great for "installing"
but for usage it doesn't matter.
i only do major disk io during builds and upgrades
on windows on the other hand...
usually though the server mostly does net i/o and not much of that either
grody: buuilds you can -j + a cpu
that said ssd raid is pretty fsat.
think i only have a single vcpu
yeh vps's have single vcpu
butu you can still -j2
dont need anything powerful.. mostly just a private relay/server
That's what she said!!
and you won't be disk bound as much as cpu bound
that said, linking tends to bottleneck with compiles frequently.
im -j4 on this tricore atm.. wished i didn't.. kinda need the cpu for other things and it just isn't cooperating
grody: nice make -j4
took 3 mins just to bring up a bloody terminal
it can still cache thrash a bit
you're probably swapping then
4gb ram..
couuld still be swapping
That's what she said!!
chrome compiles for instance will struggle with -j4 on 4gb
depends if you're compiling c++ or not
KiB Mem:   3785612 total,  3545752 used,   239860 free,   112904 buffers
KiB Swap:  3924988 total,   379448 used,  3545540 free.  2218092 cached Mem
ouch
if it's c++ and your'e swapping you might want to try clang
379mb isn't too bad
echo 20 > /proc/sys/vm/swappiness
and it'll decrease it a bit
that said 239mb free suggests something was uusing lots of ram and stopped
odd how i tweak such on android but blind it to the linux laptop
i addjust dirty_writeback_centisecs up a bit too
That's what she said!!
this laptop has an at tonne of things to do
horrid for daily use, but nice for compiling etc.
what live linux distro would one recommend for a system that is low on resouces (windows system - need to recover data)
dsl - damn small linux
ah, I got it working
they were linked to from the email
but when I clicked them control panel said I was already logged in and redirected me. so I had to copy the link
maybe it changed
mnathani_: i'd just use arch linux myself
it's good enough.
what!  microsoft's new code editor is based on chromium.
It's based on Github's Atom actually
(Which is in turn partly based on Chrome)
it's 64 bit only on linux
I'm using it right now in fact
to write a quick little Python script
do you like?
So far it's nice
wow
it's white on black
I like that it's much simpler than Atom
ok this is just getting weird
so microsoft are embracing node.js
lol
Msft is embracing a lot of open-source mentalities
ikr
it's uhh...
surprising.
Containers, open-sourcing .Net, etc. They've realized that they want want this generation of developers to use MSFT and this is how to connect
tbh i get pretty lost in all this new stuff
i wonder if ther's somewhere that outlines everything with a little bit of information :)
it's hard to keep up.
They've gone from "Here's $Product and you will bend to it" to "Oh everybody's using XYZ? Cool we'll make a product that does XYZ too." (eg, Visual Source Safe vs Git)
mercutio: /everything/ everything? like Wikipedia?
haha
more like a blog that covers these things :)
like the ne2ws? Or are you looking for information on the stuff that was announced today specifically?
i was looking at svg the other day.  it's pretty cool, but it's yet another thing to learn about :)
stuff that's getting more popular.
like svg's now supported on all normal browsers.
SVG? You're just about a decade late to that party :P
well png took forever to take off :/
it wasn't that long ago that you regularly saw non-animated gifs.
I'll take your word... non-animated were always just jpgs
and it still wouldn't surprise me to see them.
I remember people trying to include <img src=file.bmp>
heh
i was going to mention bmp
geocities had lots of bmp's :/
and gifs. under construction.
it's all paint could save i think
myspace has lots of gifs
is anyone using webp yet?
browsers these days seem to load like loading one of those pafes
woot, microsoft's code editor uses less memory than skype
lol
nano has a nice bit of syntax highlighing these days
ahh and git support
yes this is a new microsoft :)
lol :)