[02:05] *** dj_goku has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [02:05] *** dj_goku has joined #arpnetworks [02:05] *** dj_goku has quit IRC (Changing host) [02:05] *** dj_goku has joined #arpnetworks [05:13] *** dne has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) [05:13] *** dne has joined #arpnetworks [06:25] *** daca has joined #arpnetworks [14:13] microsoft released an IDE for linux. [14:13] +osx+windows [14:13] weird isn't it [14:13] they've been supporting os x for a while [14:14] Less "weird" and more "smart" [14:14] yea [14:14] They seem to be turning their act around lately [14:14] their market value has been going up. [14:14] i know. windows 10 is ... interesting.. [14:14] they seem to be "sort of" listening [14:15] Relatively speaking, they're "really listening" [14:15] like obviously they're kind of big and moving slowly. [14:15] they're doing faster build cycles for windows 10 on fast path due to demand. [14:15] buut it wasn't surprising that some people would wnat fast build cycles. [14:16] Much of MSFT has been "this is how you do things, period" but now they're showing they're flexible, making products for a market rather than forming markets around products (see all their recent containerisation stuff) [14:16] lets them iterate faster [14:16] They've always had fast build cycles, but they were internal, tested internally by employees etc. For basically the first time, the rest of the world is getting to participate too. [14:16] users w/tech preview are sort of in a focus group [14:17] I see it as a beta [14:17] (but that's just semantics) [14:17] not even a beta [14:17] it's pre-beta [14:17] Yeah I see what you're saying ( and they're saying) [14:17] it helps that they can actually get input from people [14:18] m0unds: there's a lot of users in it. [14:18] i imagine it's frustrating to open up stuff and not actually actively receive feedback (like, users submitting stuff vs telemetry) [14:18] yes, i know [14:18] it is beta [14:18] (MSFT is very clear that it's pre-beta) [14:18] they were considering it alpha level the last i saw [14:18] like a month ago [14:18] if that [14:18] it depends how you consider beta things [14:19] no it doesn't [14:19] it's literally an alpha [14:19] haha [14:19] The difference being that Win10TP users get to shape the product, as opposed to beta testing which is solely for working out bugs. [14:19] it's not "release candidate" ish [14:19] they're still working out art and UX and shit [14:19] and core stuff [14:19] the tech preview for mobile devices doesn't even have final typography or anything [14:19] yeah i wonder how much stuff is nearing ready. [14:19] it's meant to be out this year [14:20] I'll be surprised if it makes it [14:21] yea, it's still rough [14:21] rumors said july, but i don't believe that at all [14:21] i'd guess oct/nov if anything [14:21] yeah i reckon oct/nov [14:22] it's hard to know how much developers have not yet pushed [14:22] http://www.fda.gov/ICECI/EnforcementActions/WarningLetters/2014/ucm415809.htm [14:36] Any way to see if I'll be up and running tonight? I think the time was 24 hours, kind of approaching that. [14:37] I'm surprised you're not up and running already. Did you at least get an email back from ARP? [14:38] I emailed to ask status and got someone who was going to talk to eng. [14:39] But yeah, I figured the 24 hours was just to be safe. [14:39] I was thinking in the way of an order confirmation [14:39] Yeah, I got that. [14:40] I don't have a portal ID or anything, so I can't even start setting up the crt and getting that signed so I can just install as soon as the server is ready [14:42] your portal ID will be your email address, so you can generate your CSR now. [14:43] oh. sweet. thanks [15:10] sorressean: i think dedicated servers need site visit sometimes. [15:11] I just figured up_the_irons lived in his server cage! [15:11] i don't think he does it. [15:12] well not normally i mean [15:12] ah nods. [15:13] did it say 24 hours? [15:13] Yeah. we're a couple hours away which is why I asked here. [15:13] up_the_irons isn't even the one that goes to the DC to make customisations :P [15:13] i think 24 hours is normally for vps's not dedicated. [15:13] Note that 24 isn't a guarantee or a promise [15:14] mercutio: Garry weighed in, it's on dedicated too if it's in-stock [15:14] brycec: he wsa talking about upgrades though. [15:15] mercutio: http://irclogger.arpnetworks.com/irclogger_log/arpnetworks?date=2015-04-28,Tue&sel=174#l170 [15:15] cool. [15:15] i missed that, and it looks like iw as around :) [15:16] Anyhow - it may be that someone has to go down and build upgrade a machine for your order, sorressean, in which case it will take longer. I'd assume that you would be informed of that, but maybe it slipped through. [15:16] lol mercutio :) [15:16] (it happens) [15:16] brycec: he was getting 8gb more ram in the log [15:17] But maybe ARP already has an unused dedi with the upgrade installed [15:17] yeah maybe [15:17] (It would make sense to have units with commonly-requested upgrades ready) [15:18] ah nods. it's fine. I just have a lot of work to do before I can switch, so I thought I'd ask. :) thanks. [15:18] virtualisation makes that easier [15:19] And once you have your own dedi, you can run your own virtualisation :D [15:19] Yeah, I sort of overflow most vps plans. [15:19] sorressean: i mean self-virtualisation [15:19] it's not too hard to run kvm or xen or such [15:19] ah nods. [15:20] you get a /29 by default, so you can easily have real ip's on virtuals compared to server. [15:20] that might work if I really need to. [15:20] err on both virtual and main server. [15:20] 10 has bhyve. [15:20] reduce your ttl's in advance though [15:20] because that's something you can do now. [15:21] * sorressean nods [15:21] y'know arp having redundant power by default is pretty cool. [15:22] duel NIC, too... [15:22] It's miles above the crap I'm running now [15:22] mercutio: were is the /29 listed? Just curious [15:22] oh [15:22] maybe it's /30 [15:22] (And VPS come with a /30) [15:22] shit sorry about that [15:22] my dedicated has /29 [15:22] i think it's $5 for /29 [15:23] My dedicated has /29 too but it's $5/mo [15:23] ok cool. sorry! [15:23] I wondered if I was being gypped is all :) [15:24] did you get a second hard-disk brycec ? [15:24] Have not [15:24] Can't really do that until I ditch some of the VPS' (shuffling money around) [15:25] (but I'm just the sysadmin, so changes have to be run up the ladder, explained, etc) [15:25] heh [15:26] In other ARP VPS news - Successfully upgraded a clone of my personal main VPS from Wheezy to Jessie [15:26] encryption and all [15:26] cool. [15:26] i still haven't figured out this mariadb bug [15:26] with ubuntu vivid [15:26] * mercutio checks bug tracker [15:27] nice. I hated debian upgrades. [15:28] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mariadb-10.0/+bug/1447944 [15:28] damn there still doesn't appear to be a nice working solution [15:28] Do most people run arp stuff for corporate/small business stuff? [15:28] Debian's upgrades have always gone pretty smoothly for me, and I'm happy to say this one was no different. With the sysvinit -> systemd change I was expecting more. [15:28] it works fine on ubuntu vivid straight install [15:28] sorressean: i think most people usue it for vpn's, personal small sites etc. [15:28] The upgrades usually aren't so bad, but MySQL has crashed along with dovecot and a couple others a few times. [15:29] but most people with dedicated servers would probably fit closer to that. [15:29] Hm I could get rid of $45/mo worth of VPS, which equates to a second drive and a +20GB of RAM :D [15:29] * sorressean nods [15:30] dedicated seems a lot for a small site. [15:30] yeah [15:30] i kind of reckon hybrid would be cool. [15:31] like dedicated disks, dedicated cpu cores, vt-d passthrough of network [15:31] if you want lots of ram you kind of have to go dedicated. [15:31] like you have 16gb, right? [15:32] 8gb of ram is actually fine for most servers though. unutil you want to do virtualisation :) [15:32] Yeah. the second 8 is more just in case. [15:32] @exch 150 cad to pkr [15:32] 150 CAD -> 124.72581109195 USD -> 12689.791109212 PKR (as of Wed, 29 Apr 2015 15:01:02 -0700) [15:32] sometimes stuff scales up on me. [15:32] That's what she said!! [15:32] yeah i reckon 16gb is better. [15:32] I probably could've compressed down for a vps, but the single core thing kind of messes with me. [15:33] heh. [15:33] they're quuad core+ht i think [15:33] the dedicated? [15:33] yeh [15:33] Yeah, they are. [15:34] The VPS only come with 1 core plus $2 per extra. [15:34] yeah [15:35] at least it tends to mean that cpu isn't oversold [15:35] I think this dedicated will work well. I'm compressing my personal server plus a linode for dev and a couple services onto it. [15:35] but it can be nice having more cpuu [15:35] * sorressean nods [15:35] have you had a vps with arp before? [15:36] I have. It's where I started learning BSD. [15:36] ahh ok [15:46] i wonder where i can buy a sandy bridge e3 cpu cheap [15:46] it's really hard to search for sandy bridge e3s :( [15:47] and hp do this weird thing, where they don't allow ivy bridge cpus on older servers. [15:50] There are some on newegg, but you'd have to watch it. all out of stock [15:59] Anyone built a desktophere with liquid cooling? I built my first one by myself, but I'm afraid I'll do the tubing wrong. Blind, so can't see the youtube videos. Was curious if tubes come pre-cut/etc. [16:00] I would think those details vary by kit [16:00] that's what I was thinking too. [16:00] Was just trying to avoid having someone do it for me. [16:01] (that costs) [16:01] (I'm sure it does.) I know there are whole prebuilt computers (from the big names, not just built by somebody at the local computer shop) with watercooling. [16:02] (To answer the question - no I've never built a water-cooled rig) [16:02] Yeah. [16:02] *** trobotham has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) [16:02] It's generally cheaper to build from ground up and I already have harddrives, so I wanted to do that. [16:02] I know some will shudder at the thought, but I've always found the stock cooler to be adequate, even with mild overclocking. [16:02] brycec: maybe it depends on processor. my CPU runs pretty hot. [16:04] i5-2400 here, bios overclock from 3.1 to 3.2GHz, stable and relatively cool in the 40-50C range [16:04] Yeah, I'm running an AMD. [16:06] I haven't used an AMD in years, but they did run a bit warm back when I did [16:06] (I'm talking *years* - back when the Athlon64 was new) [16:07] I used to have an old AMD system on my desk that would overheat (90C+) pretty reliably in its later years. (When it was new, it was fine. And no amount of cleaning would help.) [16:07] * sorressean nods [16:08] * brycec rocks [16:12] *** carvite has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) [16:14] *** carvite has joined #arpnetworks [16:14] *** NiTeMaRe has joined #arpnetworks [16:23] mercutio: that's a cool hybrid idea [16:24] * brycec plays with the budget, whee [16:27] sorressean: lol i don't live in the cage. i actually don't go down to the data center very much anymore. My engineer, toeshred, goes down there; he lives only like 5 minutes away. [16:27] mercutio: ms has an ide for linux?? [16:28] ...and yes, i'm reading scrollback backwards [16:28] up_the_irons has been under a rock today, eh? [16:28] https://code.visualstudio.com/ [16:28] Announced at their big developer conference today http://thenextweb.com/insider/2015/04/29/everything-microsoft-announced-at-its-build-developer-conference-day-1/ [16:28] damn [16:29] You've got a bit to catch up on ;) But the tl;dr is pretty much "MSFT is improving" [16:37] up_the_irons: i had a question regarding the BGP sesion with VPS thing, I'm in the process of getting my ASN from ARIN and they require an invoice/agreement that you are providing transit/BGP for me, is this something you can do? [16:38] "Dear ARIN: I just want an ASN for funsies. Why do you need all this silly paperwork?" :p [16:39] brycec: its a bit annoying [16:39] To verify your intent to multi-home, reply and attach a copy of your signed connectivity agreement (or current bill/invoice for services) with each of the ISPs listed below: [16:39] etc. [16:42] heh I mean, I can see a reason to it. They don't want you wasting time, they don't want to be the ones hand-holding you getting it setup, etc. [16:47] sent up_the_irons an email regarding it [16:48] * brycec has sent up_the_irons 4 or 5 emails in the last hour. Sorry :) [16:50] :P [16:56] lol at the "Dear ARIN" comment brycec [16:57] staticsafe: just print out an invoice then show them my "VPS with Direct Peering" on the website [16:58] I've never had to create formal paperwork for anyone getting an ASN (and many are getting fresh new 4 byte ASNs) [16:58] * staticsafe nods [16:58] i'll put in a order [16:59] staticsafe: out of curiosity, why do you want an ASN and peering? anycast? [16:59] yeah [16:59] http://www.slideshare.net/natmorris/anycast-on-a-shoe-string basically this, something to play around with [16:59] SlideShare: "Anycast on a shoe string @ DNS OARC 2014 Spring Meeting" by Nat Morris [16:59] and learn BGP in the real world [17:00] hrm, how much RAM will a full table take? [17:02] cool [17:02] depends on your BGP software [17:02] I recommend BIRD [17:04] ordered [17:04] werd [17:05] the most annoying part with ARIN is not the paperwork but the time they take to answer tickets [17:05] they used to be really fast [17:06] v4 requests are especially slow nowadays due to the volume of them [17:06] i used to write them like literally 10 pages of justification when getting IPs, and i think they just gave up reading and said "fuck, here, take the damn IPs" [17:06] heh [17:06] I always got IPs within 3 days [17:07] Granted, I've needed only to do it 4 times, and a while ago... [17:07] they gave me an Excel spreadsheet I could fill out with projected usage and what not [17:07] i never got that [17:07] i put everything in text/plain ;) [17:08] not my fault if they don't use a monospace font [17:08] heh [17:40] sorressean: there are some kits from XSPC and a few others that you have to assemble and fill yourself. there are also sealed self-contained water cooling systems made by corsair and another one branded by antec that work pretty well. [17:41] sorressean: the xspc ones have the tubes cut to an approximate length (based on common chassis sizes) [17:41] staticsafe: Are you from NZ? [17:42] nope [17:42] .ca [17:42] i did my own watercooling loop back in the pentium 4 days, but haven't touched any custom stuff since. i used one of the early corsair self-contained coolers, and it worked okay until the pump started chattering after a few years. now i stick to nice air coolers. [17:42] Wrong person. [17:43] m0unds: How loud was the pump (pre-chattering)? [17:44] the fans were louder [17:44] I had an aquarium as a kid and its air pump was louder than my computers' fans are today. [17:44] 120mm [17:44] the custom one, i used an aquarium pump (eheim something or other) [17:44] So either loud fans or really quiet pump [17:45] quiet pump [17:45] fans were low rpm [17:45] Heh just checking that I'd understood your meaning :) [17:45] 30dB [17:46] i have a noctua something or other monster cooler now, and i think it's actually louder than the corsair thing was [17:46] (air only, 140mm fans iirc) [17:47] http://noctua.at/main.php?show=productview&products_id=68&lng=en [18:20] christ u guys sent me like ten thousand tickets today [18:20] * up_the_irons looks at brycec mostly [18:20] ;) [18:24] heh [18:26] <.< [18:26] >.> [18:27] up_the_irons: only two of my tickets are action items... [18:28] that's what they all say... ;) [18:29] crap! toeshred was just at the data center... coulda done your upgrade that I now see brycec ... [18:29] oh well [18:29] up_the_irons: I would've needed some notice anyways [18:30] ah ok [18:30] *** mjp has quit IRC (Quit: leaving) [18:30] (I did ask about that in my ticket) [18:30] (and about the vlan thing) [18:32] don't think i've got there yet [18:32] *** mjp has joined #arpnetworks [18:33] ty up_the_irons re:Upgrades [18:33] np [18:34] (and now you have gotten there, good job Garry) [18:43] lol [19:23] Urm. I ordered a server with a 128gb SSD and got a 1tb HD [19:30] i hate power outages. [19:30] seems like chat was more active than normal :) [19:30] i gained like 10 megabit on my dsl sync at least. [19:34] A little bit. And congrats on the resync [19:47] i've always found adsl sync increases after a power outage. [19:48] vdsl increased much more.. [19:48] Maybe your modem comes up faster than your DSL-neighbours [19:48] they run the margins high here. [19:48] i have to admit, my dsl link is pretty solid.. never seen is waiver from 79.7/19.9 [19:48] and it'll get like 6db instead of 12db margin. i wish they'd just let you run 6db margin normally [19:48] i mean stealing 10 megabit bandwidth due to conservativeness seems silly. [19:49] mind you upload they cap even. [19:49] i remember adsl days [19:49] grody: i'm at 45/10, but normally upload "could" do 18 megabit but they cap it [19:49] i had to bond two lines just to make it worth it [19:49] i imagine with 6db noise margin it'd be even better. [19:49] i have an adsl connection too, it's around 20 megabit [19:50] mercutio, yea, BT do two types of FTTC (vDSL here) upto 40/10 or upto 80/20 [19:50] is 80/20 bonded? [19:50] im lukcy and live real damn close to a FTTC cab [19:50] My motto is "DSL: Not even once." (though I've used others' DSL and it made me sad.) [19:50] nah, single line [19:50] i'm around 300 metres from cabinet [19:50] so i doubt that'd be possible. [19:50] well not uuntil tech improves again. [19:50] physical line is about 130m [19:51] brycec: here dsl is more consistent than fibre. [19:51] no cable service here though, which is a shit [19:51] and cable is even worse. [19:51] i'd like a docsis for backup [19:51] cable has heaps of jitter, fibre just has pacing requirements. [19:51] nah, the cable provider here isn't too bad [19:51] which means it struggles to deal with bursts of traffic appropriately, it's more "hard limited" [19:51] can get cheap 50mbit off them [19:51] docsis is great technology [19:51] the main problem is that cables are too thick. [19:52] if you have enough divisions of cable, and don't keep users on legacy docsis 2 then docsis 3 is pretty great. [19:52] i daren't bond anything more into my current setup tbh [19:52] my setuup isn't bonded buut instead failover. [19:52] i have managed to tank both upload and download and it kinda took out 80% of my firewalls cpu [19:53] my router is juust bridging, and i'm terminating the vdsl on linux atm. [19:53] plus only have a 100mbit primary interface [19:53] i keep meaning to shift the adsl to it too, and setup vlans proeprly. [19:53] When you get your crt and openvpn.conf sent to you , are they attachments? I see links, but those just redirect to control panel. Wasn't sure if I was stupid or if he just forgot to attach. [19:53] i can check mine [19:54] i got an email from garry with attachments [19:54] I ended up with 1 tb instead of ssd, but I think I want the extra space anyway, so it's not a problem. [19:54] So everything is set. [19:54] i wish ssd's were 256gb :/ [19:54] wow [19:55] mercutio: thanks, I'll ping him back. [19:55] and i've lived off a 30GB vdisk for gooness knows [19:55] mercutio: there are 256 gb ssds available. [19:55] I did not get attachments as I recall [19:55] sorressean: oh i didn't see. i'm suing hard-disks anyway [19:55] ime reads always get cached with sufficient ram [19:56] so unless you need fast sync write performance it doesn't really matter [19:56] * sorressean nods [19:56] i mean it's great for "installing" [19:56] but for usage it doesn't matter. [19:56] i only do major disk io during builds and upgrades [19:56] on windows on the other hand... [19:56] usually though the server mostly does net i/o and not much of that either [19:56] grody: buuilds you can -j + a cpu [19:57] that said ssd raid is pretty fsat. [19:57] think i only have a single vcpu [19:57] yeh vps's have single vcpu [19:57] butu you can still -j2 [19:57] dont need anything powerful.. mostly just a private relay/server [19:57] That's what she said!! [19:57] and you won't be disk bound as much as cpu bound [19:57] that said, linking tends to bottleneck with compiles frequently. [19:58] im -j4 on this tricore atm.. wished i didn't.. kinda need the cpu for other things and it just isn't cooperating [19:58] grody: nice make -j4 [19:58] took 3 mins just to bring up a bloody terminal [19:58] it can still cache thrash a bit [19:58] you're probably swapping then [19:58] 4gb ram.. [19:59] couuld still be swapping [19:59] That's what she said!! [19:59] chrome compiles for instance will struggle with -j4 on 4gb [19:59] depends if you're compiling c++ or not [19:59] KiB Mem: 3785612 total, 3545752 used, 239860 free, 112904 buffers [19:59] KiB Swap: 3924988 total, 379448 used, 3545540 free. 2218092 cached Mem [19:59] ouch [19:59] if it's c++ and your'e swapping you might want to try clang [19:59] 379mb isn't too bad [19:59] echo 20 > /proc/sys/vm/swappiness [19:59] and it'll decrease it a bit [20:00] that said 239mb free suggests something was uusing lots of ram and stopped [20:00] odd how i tweak such on android but blind it to the linux laptop [20:00] i addjust dirty_writeback_centisecs up a bit too [20:00] That's what she said!! [20:00] this laptop has an at tonne of things to do [20:01] horrid for daily use, but nice for compiling etc. [20:01] what live linux distro would one recommend for a system that is low on resouces (windows system - need to recover data) [20:01] dsl - damn small linux [20:01] ah, I got it working [20:01] they were linked to from the email [20:02] but when I clicked them control panel said I was already logged in and redirected me. so I had to copy the link [20:03] maybe it changed [20:03] mnathani_: i'd just use arch linux myself [20:04] it's good enough. [20:04] what! microsoft's new code editor is based on chromium. [20:04] It's based on Github's Atom actually [20:05] (Which is in turn partly based on Chrome) [20:05] it's 64 bit only on linux [20:05] I'm using it right now in fact [20:05] to write a quick little Python script [20:05] do you like? [20:06] So far it's nice [20:06] wow [20:06] it's white on black [20:06] I like that it's much simpler than Atom [20:07] ok this is just getting weird [20:07] so microsoft are embracing node.js [20:08] lol [20:08] Msft is embracing a lot of open-source mentalities [20:08] ikr [20:08] it's uhh... [20:08] surprising. [20:09] Containers, open-sourcing .Net, etc. They've realized that they want want this generation of developers to use MSFT and this is how to connect [20:09] tbh i get pretty lost in all this new stuff [20:09] i wonder if ther's somewhere that outlines everything with a little bit of information :) [20:09] it's hard to keep up. [20:10] They've gone from "Here's $Product and you will bend to it" to "Oh everybody's using XYZ? Cool we'll make a product that does XYZ too." (eg, Visual Source Safe vs Git) [20:10] mercutio: /everything/ everything? like Wikipedia? [20:10] haha [20:10] more like a blog that covers these things :) [20:10] like the ne2ws? Or are you looking for information on the stuff that was announced today specifically? [20:11] i was looking at svg the other day. it's pretty cool, but it's yet another thing to learn about :) [20:11] stuff that's getting more popular. [20:11] like svg's now supported on all normal browsers. [20:11] SVG? You're just about a decade late to that party :P [20:12] well png took forever to take off :/ [20:12] it wasn't that long ago that you regularly saw non-animated gifs. [20:12] I'll take your word... non-animated were always just jpgs [20:12] and it still wouldn't surprise me to see them. [20:13] I remember people trying to include

[20:13] heh [20:13] i was going to mention bmp [20:13] geocities had lots of bmp's :/ [20:13] and gifs. under construction. [20:14] it's all paint could save i think [20:14]