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| Who | What | When |
|---|---|---|
| RandalSchwartz | indeed
although I'm gaming the system slightly when I'm in a hurry... select any level, "strength skills", and "start timed practice", and then all you have to have is *one* good hit. on some days, I'm in and out in 45 seconds. :) | [00:02] |
| brycec | twss | [00:06] |
| BryceBot | Okay! twss! 'on some days, I'm in and out in 45 seconds. :)' | [00:06] |
| brycec | <.<
>.> | [00:06] |
| RandalSchwartz | heh | [00:06] |
| milki | lol | [00:09] |
| up_the_irons | lol | [00:09] |
| RandalSchwartz | ok.. bed time... laters | [00:11] |
| BryceBot | That's what she said!! | [00:11] |
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| m0unds | late to the party, but "tint" is legal, but most metros have a maximum tint value that's permissable by law
colorado allows dark tint on rear passenger windows, but requires light tint on front windows so you can see the driver or whatever denver, co* abq has a similar thing - you can do limo dark tint in the rear, but no darker than some middle value in the front i guess there are laws for states, then laws for metros too http://www.solargard.com/window-films/automotive/tint-laws | [10:15] |
| brycec | Heh. It wasn't actually about tint, just how laws can differ between states/countries for someone that isn't as familiar with "states" | [10:23] |
| m0unds | oh
states are easily analogous to countries | [10:25] |
| brycec | Except there aren't "borders" and immigration | [10:26] |
| m0unds | well, there are borders but not immigration | [10:27] |
| brycec | So they're much more analogous to counties
m0unds: yeah I meant "border" border, with gates and fences (Though I suppose I-8 does come awfully close to that border) | [10:27] |
| m0unds | heh
there are state laws and commerce laws that prevent stuff from being moved from state to state | [10:27] |
| brycec | s/prevent/disallow/ | [10:28] |
| BryceBot | <m0unds> there are state laws and commerce laws that disallow stuff from being moved | [10:28] |
| m0unds | pedant
s/disallow/intend to prevent heh | [10:28] |
| anisfarhana | Heh too | [10:28] |
| brycec | heh I'm serious though - laws don't stop people from doing things. | [10:29] |
| m0unds | no shit?
had no idea | [10:29] |
| brycec | If I was being truly pedantic, I'd talk about the "speed enforced by radar" signs | [10:29] |
| m0unds | it's a surefire way to get me to drop out of discussion that's for sure | [10:30] |
| brycec | :)
Not my intent | [10:30] |
| m0unds | didn't really require clarification that laws don't actually prevent anything ;) | [10:30] |
| mike-burns | You still get your ID checked when you fly between states, though you don't need a passport since it's not between countries.
I never had my ID checked on a train between states, and I don't think I've had my passport checked while on a train between countries. | [10:31] |
| brycec | Sure but that ID check is to make sure I'm not on a no-fly list or the like. There's still no immigration, no border stop to check that I'm not breaking laws, etc | [10:31] |
| anisfarhana | Blame the system. Not the people. | [10:31] |
| mike-burns | Yeah fair enough. To the end user it feels the same, but the intent is definitely different. | [10:32] |
| brycec | (That really depends on the end-user... maybe I'm just weird like that) | [10:32] |
| anisfarhana | Guys...I would like to ask something he he he... | [10:33] |
| mike-burns | I've also been working hard to explain to Europeans that US states are closer to countries than whatever it is they think they are. | [10:34] |
| anisfarhana | Is it wrong to be a champion? | [10:34] |
| brycec | But all states are under a federal government. How does that relate to Europeans? | [10:34] |
| m0unds | i gave up trying to explain that within the context of mobile networks in the us | [10:35] |
| mike-burns | I live in Europe, where people say to me things like "you're from America? Pickup trucks and guns and cowboy hats and massive amounts of food?", and I have to tell them that they're thinking of Texas, which leads to me explaining what a state is, and also explaining the size of the US. | [10:36] |
| m0unds | yeah | [10:36] |
| brycec | Ah yes in that context, state=country for sure. However when it comes to government and the like, the analogy breaks down.
(The US is something like 9.8 million sq km, and Europe is 10.2) | [10:38] |
| mike-burns | Yes, you are right there. | [10:39] |
| m0unds | do EU nations have any sort of common laws that apply at a level outside the law of a particular country?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union#/media/File:Political_System_of_the_European_Union.svg this is confusing to me, haha | [10:40] |
| BryceBot | European Union :: The European Union (EU) is a politico-economic union of 28 member states that are located primarily in Europe. The EU operates through a system of supranational institutions and intergovernmental-negotiated decisions by the member states. The institutions are: the European Commission, the Council of the European Union, the European Council, the Court of Justice of the European Union, the European Central Bank, the Court... | [10:44] |
| mike-burns | There are laws common across the EU, yes. | [10:53] |
| m0unds | but not really as an equivalent to the us federal gov? | [10:53] |
| mike-burns | It doesn't feel the same to me, but it certainly is inspired by the US. | [10:53] |
| m0unds | gotcha | [10:54] |
| mike-burns | For example, snus is illegal in the EU, but Sweden refuses to enforce this law.
(I've no idea whether there's an English for for snus, or whether snus is already an English word.) | [10:54] |
| m0unds | like..the cold tobacco things? | [10:55] |
| mike-burns | Yeah. | [10:55] |
| m0unds | i think one of the major tobacco cos in the us sells them (i'm not a smoker, i just remember seeing the name)
so that's similar to the federal gov in the US saying marijuana is illegal, but some states have opted to decriminalize/legalize and not enforce that federal law | [10:55] |
| mike-burns | That seems to match my knowledge, yeah. | [10:57] |
| m0unds | huh, interesting | [11:00] |
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| plett | The EU doesn't pass laws which directly apply to member countries - the EU creates regulations which each country is supposed to write a law to enforce. That way the laws can take other country-specific things into consideration | [11:29] |
| mike-burns | Aha, that explains that. | [11:29] |
| plett | But that does mean that it's entirely possible for a country to say "nope, don't like that one" to something the EU wants to be enforced everywhere
For example, the EU has decreed that prisoners should be allowed to vote in elections that happen while they are locked up. The UK government feels quite strongly that they shouldn't, so hasn't written that bit of EU legislation into law But as part of joining the EU, a member country agrees that the European Court has jurisdiction over national courts and can override decisions. So it is possible for a prisoner who was denied a vote to take the UK government to court over it, and proably be awarded damages. This is a shitstorm which is still waiting to happen. | [11:29] |
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| http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31356895 is a good summary of that particular situation | [11:52] | |
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| m0unds | ah, gotcha | [12:20] |
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| anisfarhana | I guess I'd forgotten how many there were.
Someone must have forgotten something. | [13:51] |
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| forgotten | heh
hi anisfarhana :) | [14:09] |
| anisfarhana | Hi | [14:10] |
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| RandalSchwartz | I should figure out where to put these instructions on how to resize an ARP disk.
right now they're just in my to-do app. :) | [14:41] |
| brycec | Are they any different from other disk resizing? (Just curious)
(which reminds me I still need to grow into my disk... alas, crypto complicates partition growing/shrinking :() | [14:45] |
| RandalSchwartz | weird... last time I did this... zfs automatically recognized the new size
the gpart looked correct. but zfs is still the same size. maybe I have to export it and reimport it? there's some step I think I'm missing nope... autoexpand is on | [15:00] |
| mercutio | RandalSchwartz: is linux seeing the right size
or bsd or whatever it is :) | [15:08] |
| RandalSchwartz | gpart is showing the right partition size
but zfs didn't see it this is freebsd Looks like I do have to export and import it. I forgot that step before. :) | [15:09] |
| mercutio | weird | [15:10] |
| RandalSchwartz | darn it... another trip to the fixit shell. :) | [15:10] |
| mercutio | how do you import/export when it's root?
you reboot off cd etc? that sounds bloody disgusting | [15:11] |
| RandalSchwartz | yeah boot off the dvd. | [15:11] |
| mercutio | surely that's not needed these days? | [15:12] |
| brycec | It is for shrinking active filesystems in Linux... | [15:12] |
| mercutio | ext you should make ZFS to resize with `zpool online -e ...`.ext you should make ZFS to resize with `zpool online -e ...`.
oops s/ext/next/ | [15:12] |
| BryceBot | <mercutio> next you should make ZFS to resize with `zpool online -e ...`.next you should make ZFS to resize with `zpool online -e ...`. | [15:13] |
| mercutio | oh that's just exapdn on a single disk | [15:14] |
| RandalSchwartz | weird. the dist disk didn't stay loaded in the cd
hitting that pop-up again yeah... maybe the reboot unloaded the cd automatically? | [15:22] |
| Ugh. even in the fixit shell, I'm unable to resize.
yeah - must be something I did differently. | [15:29] | |
| aha... zpool online -e zroot ad0
while booted zfs just grows. :) | [15:43] | |
| mercutio | sweet.
i think i have done zpool online -e on other os's but i don't have autoexpand on | [15:53] |
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| sorressean | Any arpnetworks staff around? | [18:23] |
| mercutio | usually stuff that needs staff should be sent as a ticket to support@ sorressean | [18:26] |
| brycec | But you can hilight up_the_irons and see what happens. | [18:26] |
| mercutio | if it's a general quuestion someone here may be able to help you | [18:26] |
| sorressean | I think you just pinged him for me. :) | [18:27] |
| brycec | maybe I did...
And like mercut said- ask away We'll answer if we can, up_the_irons will answer when he reappears (if it's not already handled, etc) | [18:27] |
| sorressean | There was a code good for this month for 15% off I seen somewhere, was trying to dig that up again. Also wasn't sure if that included add-ons. might need a higher end server at some point. | [18:28] |
| mercutio | wht
webhostingtalk has codes. | [18:28] |
| brycec | brycec read "wht" as "what" | [18:29] |
| mercutio | i'm not sure if it includes adds or not | [18:29] |
| brycec | And yes, there are always deals on | [18:29] |
| mercutio | brycec: yeah i realised it wasn't clear, so i expanded. | [18:29] |
| brycec | ty mercutio :) | [18:29] |
| mercutio | err addons.
is it vps or dedicated you were after? | [18:29] |
| sorressean | thanks. :) dedicated. trying to move away from Soyoustart. | [18:30] |
| mercutio | with dedicated i reckon it makes sense to go with what you need in the beginning
as it's harder to expand. | [18:30] |
| sorressean | well, what I'd expand is the hd space. | [18:30] |
| mercutio | you want to do raid? | [18:31] |
| brycec | (One should always RAID...) | [18:31] |
| sorressean | don't think I need a ton right now, but if I need more it's easy enough to add. I'm on a really tight budgett, so I'm not totally sure. | [18:31] |
| mercutio | brycec: nearly always yes | [18:31] |
| sorressean | no, just getting the ssd to start with. | [18:31] |
| mercutio | ahh so it's because you're going ssd and are going to be limited. | [18:31] |
| sorressean | sorressean nods | [18:32] |
| brycec | Something to keep in mind, sorressean - if you're ordering a one- or two-drive server, you'll probably end up with a chassis that only supports two drives. If you anticipate going to >2 drives, order that now (or at least make a note) to save downtime later. | [18:32] |
| sorressean | awesome, thanks. that's what I was looking for, just advice.
Do you know what the average deployment time is? | [18:32] |
| up_the_irons | up_the_irons flies down like Superman
sorressean: 24 hours if we have the gear you want | [18:34] |
| brycec | No idea on dedicated... I'd assume same as VPS if he has spare blades waiting.
(w00t) | [18:34] |
| sorressean | haha. There we go. | [18:34] |
| brycec | (And installed, I'm assuming - otherwise up_the_irons would have to go install) | [18:34] |
| sorressean | up_the_irons: going for the basic, with 8 gb added in. | [18:35] |
| up_the_irons | brycec: all blades are pre-installed. toeshred then goes to the data center for me to make adjustments (RAM, HDs, etc...) | [18:36] |
| brycec | My dedi is still chugging away strong :D (as are my VPSen)
up_the_irons: yeah I was referring to installation of addons (as-needed) up_the_irons: How's the new website coming? | [18:36] |
| sorressean | allrighty, going to order. | [18:36] |
| up_the_irons | brycec: well. mercutio just got SSL enabled and got us an "A" rating on ssllabs.com :)
brycec: i need to do a final scrub but i think everything else is ready to go live this week | [18:38] |
| brycec | But not an A+? tsk tsk, mercutio
up_the_irons: How exciting! | [18:38] |
| up_the_irons | haha | [18:38] |
| sorressean | up_the_irons: mind if I pm you? | [18:38] |
| up_the_irons | sorressean: you can pm all you want, whether i reply will depend on how difficult the thing is you pm'd me about... ;) | [18:39] |
| brycec | mercutio: Why not an A+? Allowing TLS 1.0 still? | [18:39] |
| up_the_irons | intermediate cert is weak | [18:39] |
| BryceBot | That's what she said!! | [18:39] |
| sorressean | Haha. | [18:39] |
| brycec | Oh, ugh I hate when it's out of your hands
BryceBot: no | [18:39] |
| BryceBot | Oh, okay... I'm sorry. 'intermediate cert is weak' | [18:39] |
| up_the_irons | yeah | [18:39] |
| brycec | (mercutio: you're forgiven) | [18:39] |
| up_the_irons | haha | [18:39] |
| mercutio | brycec: is disabling tls 1.0 ok now?
brycec: everything else i checked had a b paypal, amazon, google etc are terrible google still allows ssl v3 | [18:41] |
| brycec | 1.0 is meh-ish. If you disable it entirely, you're 100% safe from BEAST, but you limit your userbase and BEAST is already very well mitigated
But most PCI compliance scans still flag TLS 1.0 (which is stupid...) | [18:42] |
| mercutio | brycec: i did suggest you might know more than me | [18:43] |
| brycec | :) | [18:43] |
| mercutio | brycec: there's also a sha1withrsa256 thingy
in the intermediate chain which lots of other sites have to | [18:43] |
| brycec | brycec may or may not work for a firewall manufacturer that's heavily involved in compliance | [18:44] |
| mercutio | apparently google are phasing it out
buit google themselves are using sha1 certs. | [18:44] |
| brycec | Google is in the unique position of being their own intermediary so they can easily clean up those weak links | [18:44] |
| mercutio | they're not though
https://www.ssllabs.com/ssltest/analyze.html?d=google.com&s=216.58.192.36&hideResults=on&ignoreMismatch=on it's sha1withrsa the whole way through | [18:45] |
| brycec | Yeah. They have to remain somewhat compatible... | [18:46] |
| mercutio | yeh i did read a bit futher | [18:46] |
| brycec | eg all those old iOS devices and the like that don't support sha2 | [18:46] |
| mercutio | apparently you need to use sha1 for xp with sp2
it just seems weird because they're pushing hard for it to be shown as insecure but doing it themselves and it's mostly becuase they're using short expiriation times. | [18:46] |
| brycec | ^ Which I think is actually pretty cool | [18:47] |
| mercutio | it's cool they're doing short expiration times? | [18:48] |
| brycec | Yeah and rotating their certs frequently. Much like having a short-ish TTL, they can move quickly to kill fake/forged certs (for instance) | [18:49] |
| mercutio | actually i suppose short expiration times is a good idea
that whole revoking certs thing not working was funny. brycec: what do you think about disabling rc4? there seems to be mixed ideas about having it or not having it | [18:49] |
| brycec | I happen to feel mixed too :P At this point it's about how much of your audience you want to/you can afford to alienate.
I'd look at the compatability list and see just who gets excluded by tightening security down. And relatively speaking, the RC4 weakness isn't anywhere as bad as SSL and POODLE | [18:51] |
| mercutio | atm only ie6 with xp is excluded.
ie6 with xp uused to be really common, i wonder if anyone still uses it | [18:52] |
| brycec | So I don't see leaving it enabled as too "dangerous." Now if this were dealing with financial transactions (I mean on the backend - CC transactions have their own legal protections), lock that shit down to all hell. But for a website taking credit cards, you're probably okay.
Some do still use it... But you probably don't want that type of user as a customer ;) | [18:53] |
| mercutio | heh | [18:53] |
| up_the_irons | i have this new customer, and for privacy reasons, i will not spell out the whole name, but it goes: Ma* R*d*r. Every time i see it i think " omg Mance Rayder!!" | [18:59] |
| brycec | lol up_the_irons | [19:00] |
| mercutio | i'm still waiting for that free easy ssl certificate thing to be out
https://letsencrypt.org/ | [19:02] |
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| mercutio | disconnected by services? | [19:08] |
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| brycec | mercutio: aka "/msg nickserv ghost" | [19:09] |
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| mercutio | "you may not ghost yourself"
oh it's to get rid of the old you | [19:09] |
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| mnathani_ | how difficult is it to create a deb pkg? | [20:54] |
| mercutio | it's pretty easy to create a bad one
just take a look in debian/ directory of various things getting source dependencies etc right takes more effort though https://wiki.debian.org/HowToPackageForDebian this seems to tell you what to do | [20:56] |
| mnathani_ | ok
similar process for ubuntu packages? | [21:00] |
| mercutio | yeah
you can usuually jusut install debian packages in ubuntu speaking of build dependencies, php is insane i compiled php7 from source i did it on arch, before i did it on ubuntu, and it was a lot easier on arch | [21:01] |
| mnathani_ | I suppose no packages existed for php7 at the time? | [21:05] |
| mercutio | i wouldn't normally care, buut php7 looks to be doubling php performance etc.
they still don't. you can't even download source as a release it's git; githuub lets you download "master" zip file. it's meant to be out later this year | [21:05] |
| mnathani_ | You can retrieve the PHP source code from our GitHub mirror with this command:
git clone https://github.com/php/php-src.git | [21:06] |
| mercutio | yeah that's slower than getting the master zip
but i mean there's not a normal tarball snapshot or "pre release" | [21:06] |
| mnathani_ | but incremental would be faster | [21:07] |
| mercutio | i assume there will be rc1 or something sometime
yeah incremental is faster if updating i git cloned my first two actually i could have rsynced | [21:07] |
| mnathani_ | all the latest tags are 5.68 etc | [21:08] |
| mercutio | php is the reason i moved from debian to ubuntuu
debian were just way too far behind years back yeah 5.6 is in ubuntu vivid php7 is likely to break thing satm | [21:08] |
| mnathani_ | did they skip 6.. | [21:09] |
| mercutio | yeah they screwed up 6 yeras back
and decided that 5.7 is too much of a jump to be called 5.7 so are going with 7 | [21:09] |
| mnathani_ | I wonder if the drupal and wordpress folks have started testing 7 | [21:09] |
| mercutio | it already works with them
it doubles the requests per second i was surprised. | [21:09] |
| mnathani_ | oh nice | [21:10] |
| mercutio | i thought a lot of the slowness would be in the database
but yeah drupal and wordpress are all i've tried on it so far :/ and w3c total cache has some bug with php7 (wordpress module) | [21:10] |
| mnathani_ | how far is the 7.0 release? | [21:13] |
| mercutio | it's functional
i think they're going to try and make it faster there's a slide thing somewhere | [21:17] |
| mnathani_ | your test environments, were they nginx or apache | [21:18] |
| mercutio | i'm testing with apache suphp
http://talks.php.net/fluent15#/ i haven't done proper benchmarking yet the benchmarks were against that i think it's still slow myself :/ but i may have something setup wrong suphp is cgi though, so it's like nginx there's so many different ways to run apache/php with nginx i normally do php-fpm but i don't run much variety on it if you're having multiple sites having sites run as the user can give more protection | [21:18] |
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| mnathani_ | do you use vagrant? | [21:36] |
| mercutio | nope
isn't that a memory checker | [21:38] |
| mnathani_ | I thought it was a virtual machine / environment tool
never used it myself | [21:38] |
| mercutio | it seems it is
i just use xen normally been using it for years | [21:38] |
| mnathani_ | @google vagrant | [21:39] |
| BryceBot | 617,000 total results returned for 'vagrant', here's 3
Vagrant (software) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vagrant_(software)) The computer software Vagrant creates and configures virtual development environments. It can be seen as a wrapper around virtualization software such as ... python-vagrant 0.5.8 : Python Package Index (https://pypi.python.org/pypi/python-vagrant) Mar 30, 2015 ... Python bindings for interacting with Vagrant virtual machines. Installing Vagrant - Vagrant Documentation (http://docs.vagrantup.com/v2/installation/) Installing Vagrant is extremely easy. Head over to the downloads page and get the appropriate installer or package for your platform. Then install it using ... | [21:39] |
| mercutio | i was thinking of valgrind. | [21:40] |
| mnathani_ | @google valgrind | [21:40] |
| BryceBot | 69,300 total results returned for 'valgrind', here's 3
Valgrind - FreeBSD Wiki (https://wiki.freebsd.org/Valgrind) Oct 24, 2013 ... The current version of the Valgrind FreeBSD is maintained in a mercurial repository on bitbucket.org: https://bitbucket.org/stass/valgrind-freebsd. valgrind(1) - Linux man page (http://linux.die.net/man/1/valgrind) Valgrind is a flexible program for debugging and profiling Linux executables. It consists of a core, which provides a synthetic CPU in software, and a ... README.valgrind (http://svn.python.org/projects/python/trunk/Misc/README.valgrind) This document describes some caveats about the use of Valgrind with Python. Valgrind is used periodically by Python developers to try to ensure there are no ... | [21:40] |
| mercutio | there's been a few app as an OS things for xen recently.
which i find the idea of pretty interesting so you compile your OS/app into one and deploy it as is | [21:43] |
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| mnathani__ | theres 3 of me in here. There should only be 2 | [22:01] |
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| mercutio | hmm 150 msec with arch compiled binary, 160 msec with ubuntu compiled.
i'd rather it be more like 50 really and 200 msec for php 5.6 that's not even twice as fast | [22:06] |
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