mercutio: but i founud something really handy recently; zstyle ':completion:*' rehash true
it means you don't have to type rehash after installing packages mnathani_: does pacman work kind of like yum and apt-get ? mercutio: yeah
"pacman -S zsh" will install zsh
"pacman -Ss zsh" will search for packages that mention zsh
-Ss happens to list grml-zsh-config first fwiw
what still weirds me out is juust how much faster packages install on zsh compared to ubuntu
the difference is very noticable
pacman -S --noconfirm nano 0.09s user 0.03s system 47% cpu 0.251 total
that includes the download
apt-get -y install nano 0.73s user 0.17s system 36% cpu 2.467 total
so yeah including download it's about 10x as fast for small packages
and even if download was instant, ubuntu uses so much cpu/disk/etc that it's still slow
s/zsh/arch/ BryceBot: <mercutio> what still weirds me out is juust how much faster packages install on arch compared to ubuntu mnathani_: I am linking arch's documentation
s/linking/liking BryceBot: <mnathani_> I am liking arch's documentation mercutio: yeh even if you use ubuntuu it's still useful :) mnathani_: how do I install pkgtools
or startx mercutio: pkgtools? mnathani_: You can use pkgfile to know which package own a file. pkgfile is bundled in the pkgtools package mercutio: oh it's in aur
you need to install cower or such
https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/cower/ mnathani_: so pacman -S cower ? mercutio: i use "meat"
nah it's in aur :/
so it's a pita to get the first one
https://github.com/falconindy/cower
so grab that then do makepkg -s BryceBot: That's what she said!! mercutio: then pacman -u the .xz file
err pacman -U
then you can do cower -s to serach
and cower -d to download
cower will download into current directory making a new directory for the package mnathani_: I need ssh server first mercutio: i'd recommend downloading meat first mnathani_: so I can copy paste mercutio: heh
is this on a vm or bare metal? mnathani_: vm mercutio: ahh
i'm doing an arch template for arp mnathani_: volunteer / paid ?
or in exchange for Vms and ips / bandwidth :-) mercutio: heh
so there shoudl be templates early for debian, openbsd etc that are coming out mnathani_: I always prefer installing my own os mercutio: i prefer having auto install for vm's normally
what i hate is when it forces icky things on you
like most of those solusvm providers have sendmail and so on
because someone's done terrible templates that seem to lack useful things like man
but have SENDMAIL
when it's not even default mnathani_: I got ssh working now
cloned the cower repo mercutio: cool
then just makepkg -s on it mnathani_: ==> ERROR: Running makepkg as root is not allowed as it can cause permanent, catastrophic damage to your system. mercutio: yeh youu have to sudo it :) mnathani_: Could not chdir to home directory /home/mnathani: No such file or directory mercutio: useradd doesn't add home directory mnathani_: so it seems mercutio: err doesn't create
yeah it's core unix
adduser is a fancy nice script
you hit the same kind of issues on solaris mnathani_: bash: adduser: command not found mercutio: yeah they don't include adduser
just mkdir ~mnathani
chown mnathani ~mnathani
i'm not using cower/meat everywhere fwiw
you can get by without it pretty well
you can just install xorg-xinit
i use lightdm though mnathani_: ==> ERROR: PKGBUILD does not exist. mercutio: and it looks really ugly, but i don't care, because i just login :) mnathani_: when executing the makepkg under mnathani account mercutio: are you in the build/cower directory
i use /src/builds to store all of mine
where src is zfs with set mountpoint mnathani_: > /home/mnathani/cower mercutio: so youu're in the cower directory? mnathani_: I am mercutio: and you can do ls -l PKGBUILD ? mnathani_: ls: cannot access PKGBUILD: No such file or directory mercutio: there's the issue
you sure it's not in a subdir?
like cower/cower :) mnathani_: 6 files in there
config
cower.c
etc
Makefile mercutio: it's not got the package hmm
is that the src/ directory ?
bah mnathani_: nope
no src dir mercutio: just curl -O https://weallsee.net/PKGBUILD
i uploaded it there mnathani_: thanks
sorry for all the newbie questions mercutio: yeah it's a pita
i mean cower is mnathani_: I really need to catch up on reading manuals mercutio: it's easier once you have it :)
then you need sudo pacman -U cower-12-2-x86_64.pkg.tar.xz mnathani_: error after error mercutio: oh? mnathani_: first it wants me to be a sudoer mercutio: what's it doing? mnathani_: I added mysefl to sudo file mercutio: su to yourself
if you added yourself to sudo group mnathani_: now its checking pgp signature mercutio: otherwise you're not part of the group mnathani_: ==> ERROR: One or more PGP signatures could not be verified! mercutio: https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/cower/
Just a quick thanks to runical, adding "keyserver-options auto-key-retrieve" to my ~/.gnupg/gpg.conf fixed the error I was getting.
it really is a pita isn't it mnathani_: error: you cannot perform this operation unless you are root.
first it complains as I am root
then I am not sudo
then I am not root mercutio: heh what does it need root for? mnathani_: [mnathani@Arch cower]$ pacman -U cower-12.tar.gz mercutio: curl -O https://weallsee.net/cower-12-2-x86_64.pkg.tar.xz
oh
you have to -U the pkg.tar.xz file
and /that/ needs you to sudo for it
sudo pacman -U cower-12-2...
cower-12.tar.gz is the source
makepkg -s should have made that package BryceBot: That's what she said!! mnathani_: ok, cool its installed now mercutio: oh sweet
so makepkg -s worked fine? mnathani_: used the one you linked mercutio: now in your build directory do cower -d meat
and cd meat
and makepkg -s
and install meat
then it's easy to install stuff :)
there's heaps of alternatives mnathani_: error: no results found for meat mercutio: but meat works fine for me
it maybe meat-git
yeah it's meat-git :) mnathani_: what else should exist in my build dir
can I just use /root/build ? mercutio: nope because you have to build as a normal user
and normal user can't access /root
i dunno what other people do, but i like /src vs /usr/src
and i like having an extra directory for package stuff
some people probably usr /usr/local/src
but /src is much easier to complete to mnathani_: not using root user is new to me mercutio: heh yeh mnathani_: I usually run everything as root mercutio: not using root is growing on me a little mnathani_: except maybe weechat mercutio: yeh i used to root for everything system related
i figure it's more secure having seperate root / normal logins
when you can just sudo su or sudo any command as normal user
it's like your normal user is root
there are a few advantages though
like if you have multiple people doing stuff you can tell who did stuff easier mnathani_: accounting on a shared system
does arch download everything as source and build
rather than get a binary? mercutio: aur stuff yeh
but not for normal packages mnathani_: whats aur again? mercutio: arch user repository
it's where lots of people submit various packages
quality can vary BryceBot: That's what she said!! mercutio: so like infiniband stuff is in there
dropbear is in there it seems
memtest86-efi is in there
ttf-google-fonts-git is in there
none of it is really essential to everyone mnathani_: how does it compare to say an ubuntu rep mercutio: it's like universe/multiverse
compared to the standard rep
except it's kind of more like the extra ubuntu repositorys you can add from external mnathani_: how would I go about installing kde and x mercutio: kde is in base mnathani_: the kde instructions said have a xserver working before install
and thats when I couldnt get startx working mercutio: just pacman -S lightdm
or gdm or whatever you're into mnathani_: should that bring in the startx command ? mercutio: nah
it'll go straight to gui
xorg-xinit will give you startx mnathani_: apt-get install xorg-xinit >> bash: apt-get: command not found
:-)
2 packages: plasma vs plasma-meta mercutio: hahaa mnathani_: which one has more stuff mercutio: meta probably?
i dununo :) ***: toeshred has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
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jpalmer has joined #arpnetworks brycec: pacman -Qo /path/to/file 00:50:02 mnathani_ | You can use pkgfile to know which package own a file.
Personally, mercutio/mnathani_ I'm a fan of yaourt which builds-in sudo, searches ABS and AUR, handles updates, everything! Eg: "yaourt -Syua" update package lists and install updated packages including checking AUR for updated packages. m0unds: i read that as yaogurt mike-burns: The character from Spaceballs? m0unds: yeah, haha brycec: Also, "makepkg -i" to build + install (with sudo)
mike-burns: The French for yogurt.
I imagine if you're wanting KDE, you'd use kdm, fwiw. RandalSchwartz: slow day today :) brycec: Most days :p m0unds: http://blog.pcbsd.org/2015/04/pc-bsd-and-4k-oh-my/ mercutio mercutio: brycec: i mentioned there were alternatives :)
there are shit loads of them :)
havingg similar syntax to pacman sounds nice though
m0unds: my monitor defaulted to supporting 60 hz, but only through displayport
this motherboard does 4k with onboard video @60 hertz, but only has mini display port. i ordered a display port adapter off ebay, and it's come already. it looks like it's hard to do 60 hortz with onboard video in general.
when i read about that guy going with two 4k monitors taht' is actually a little bit of an issue, because people usually only have one displayport port himuraken: They can be chained usually. BryceBot: That's what she said!! m0unds: BryceBot: no BryceBot: Oh, okay... I'm sorry. 'They can be chained usually.' m0unds: (lol) brycec: I liked it for a twss :P himuraken: Am I wrong? m0unds: no, i was laughing at the bot himuraken: Lol gotcha m0unds: looks like w/displayport 1.2 you can only drive a single 4k or 2k display per port brycec: Provided the intermediate display supports it, and the display adapter. And 4K maxes out DisplayPort v1.2 bandwidth, so no chaining there.
http://www.displayport.org/cables/driving-multiple-displays-from-a-single-displayport-output/ m0unds: yeah brycec: lol m0unds m0unds: that's what i was just looking at
i remembered seeing it though, must have just been w/1080p displays brycec: It's news to me, but I have 0 DP displays so no reason I would know :p m0unds: my desktop monitor has dp, but i use dvi because i didn't have a dp cable brycec: Definitely seems very, very cool. Alas, only my desktop has DP (I think... I know my last gfx card did) so it's not a priority. mnathani_: brycec: so the bot collects all these twss, does it replay them sometime ? brycec: I'm not understanding the question mnathani_: do we ever hear back from the bot as in repeat all these phrases that have been recorded
or is it more like a one time <BryceBot> That's what she said!! << comment and thats it brycec: it doesn't work like that... "twss" trains a bayesian net, akin to spam training. When you "twss" something, it trains the sentence as something "she would say" and that's it. It's not "collected"
(besides by IRC logs, but that's a totally separate thing) mnathani_: I see
what distribution / BSD most closely resembles archlinux ? brycec: "distribution" almost exclusively refers to Linux, so... the closest Linux to Archlinux would have to be Archlinux.
(though VoidLinux might be a close second)
For BSD's, I'd say FreeBSD
(but take that with a grain of salt - I've only ever used Open, Net, and FreeBSD) mnathani_: is Arch a top level linux, or does it have an upstream? mkb: none of them
they are all much more conservative than archlinux brycec: mnathani_: Top -: mkb remembers when he used to use arch and had all this free time for messing with my computer brycec: I still use Arch and it doesn't require all sorts of free time. Unlike Gentoo... (but that was a long time ago) twobithacker: I should play with Dragonfly more grody: is anyone experience serious lag? RandalSchwartz: I am grody: i cant use my vps for ♥ nor money
nvm.. stupid sendmail decided to go on a rampage
i killed that ages ago in place of postfix and its rearing it's butt ugly face again
if i had £1 for everytime i forgot to add a new mail alias for root to point to a valid mta, i would be having enough money to buy everyone a round of beer
kern.ipc.maxpipekva exceeded; see tuning(7) is such a lovely message when sendmail/mailwrapper gets in a knot about having nowhere to send anything then just queues brycec: lol grody mercutio: i'd say netbsd is more like arch than freebsd brycec: mercutio: What about Dfly or PCBSD? Have you tried those, do they relate at all? mercutio: brycec: i awnt to try dragonfly but i haven't brycec: (siteXX.tgz ftw - one of my install.site/upgrade.site's tasks is to ensure there's a sane alias) mercutio: but considering they forked freebsd 4, where freebsd started to destabilise, i think it's on the conserwative side -: grody misses his 4.11 box mercutio: freebsd 2 and 4 were pretty stable grody: had that from bleeding edge til about a year ago, when the actual hardware systematically died.. was my best file server ever mercutio: was there a freebsd 3?
ahh there was 3 but it was shortlived grody: PCBSD is basically FreeBSD, but all GUId up for you mercutio: sounds annoying :) grody: archlinux is a beast on it's own and is a linux i enjoy next to gentoo.. and if i were to say FreeBSD was like any linux, i would say it was an easy to use gentoo mercutio: freebsd kind of annoys me grody: and i never thought i would read myself typing that mercutio: freebsd feels more like redhat grody: "an easy to use gentoo"
gawd no, redhat is S^&!
wouldn't excrete on it even if it's immolation spelt $500 to put me out mercutio: freebsd is more unstable than netbsd or openbsd grody: freebsd has lost it's way in the last few years, that is fgor sure
i blame apple mercutio: netbsd is lean and mean like arch :)
did you ever use slackware grody ? grody: never actually used netbsd for anything more than pottering on
mercutio, for a while.. until i found gentoo mercutio: ahh ok grody: then my hair started thinning... mercutio: i tried using gentoo
i didn't like it grody: trinux was something i used to use a lot, a floppy based slackware
yea gentoo can be infuriating mercutio: it was a very long time ago actually grody: only using it again atm as im trying to build "the perfect linux" for my tablet, since there is absolutely no or little "official" support, so im stealing drivers and what not from androids that are suspected to work the wifi and touchscreen (only two things holding me back)
but it's taken bloody ages to get things even barely right mercutio: heh
sounds like a huge time sink grody: it is :(
but windows 8.1 is the only other option (even android x86 has "issues"_
) mercutio: windows 10?
you know you want to :)
it's just a tablet grody: i have the TP on my laptop.. not bad, but i wouldn't put it down as tablet friendly
haha mercutio: i have tp on my desktop grody: for a low ended thing, it's pretty damned fast
ahh crap and now my slave laptop is useless again... i have too much crap going on on this thing mercutio: i wonder if any project levering arch is going to make significant headway
like ubuntu is to debian grody: compiling AOSP for my Sony phone, compiling stuff in Gentoo and now it's gone into meltdown as SWMBO wants to transcode a blueray for the Roku
i only came online to make sure the new box i just put on my network isnt revealing anything to the innerwebs mercutio: brycec: what do you think of arch linux for servers? grody: mercutio, i think Mint did a better working of debian, although they say it's ubuntu derived.. i never got that fully
use Mint quite a lot in fact :/
have arch on the pogoplug
thats currently a backup MTA and web server/.. it /seems/ to have held for some months now mercutio: postfix broke recently for me :/
but i haven't had many issues
and it was quite easy to fix grody: yea, postfix did something weird for me too after an upgrade
some execs moved location and didn't get fixed in a config mercutio: ahh
yes that's the issue i had too ;) grody: symlinked the fuckers mercutio: i just fixed the config file grody: i didnt have time to do that.. but since im online now, i may as well mercutio: daemon_directory = /usr/lib/postfix/bin
i think that was it
i think it was without the /bin before grody: yea
rehash
bleah, wrong terminal mercutio: grody: zstyle ':completion:*' rehash true -: grody uses csh mercutio: ahh grody: dont know why, always have since day 1 of freebsd and stuck since mercutio: typing rehash sucks :) grody: dont usually install new stuff that often mercutio: yeah but the amount of times you want to complete on something you've just installed is probably high grody: Fetching mtr-nox11-0.86.txz: 100% 42 KiB 43.5kB/s 00:01
pkg: cached package mtr-nox11-0.86: size mismatch, fetching from remote
thats annoying
i can sense things are only to get worse if i dig deeper so im going to crack open a brew and watch TV instead :D brycec: grody: Mint was originally forked from Debian, but later on they re-based off Ubuntu.
mercutio: As a "professional practice" I think rolling releases in production are a Bad Idea(tm).
Though even in "production" if updates are carefully checked and tested before being deployed, it's fine. mercutio: yeah there are some caveats brycec: I've run it personally. But when it boils down to it, I need a server that doesn't have an 80% chance of breaking when I update, so I stick with "released" things like Debian and OpenBSD :D mercutio: i don't think that it's rolling release is necessarily the biggest issue
it's more that it's hard to know what will break where grody: i never had any issues with FreeBSD until 9/10
4 to 5, 5 to 6, 6 to 8 all fine.. 9 and 10.. wow brycec: 9+ eh? That's about when they added ZFS support. Coincidence? :P RandalSchwartz: and MIMD grody: but upgrades where all manual and only really security fixes using former portaudit and portupgrade (now seems to all be in pkg) RandalSchwartz: and a bunch of other things
I'm renting a cheap box at digitalocean running not-zfs-on-root (since they don't support it) build my 8.x, 9.x, and 10.x packages.
by cheap, I'm saying $5/month
and it has 20 GB SSD.
that'll make my migrations easier
I'm tempted to make a ZFS fs by mounting it as a file.
so I'd just have an outer shim to hold the OS, and everything else would be ZFS on a legacy fs.
I've asked them for ZFS on root and it's not on their roadmap m0unds: netbsd is pretty conservative. stuff doesn't change on their release branch unless they work in security fixes
their releng guys do a pretty good job (which is why 7 was delayed repeatedly) RandalSchwartz: the freebsd fixit shell is only on the dvd1 release, right? mjp__: you'll get a shell on the cd image RandalSchwartz: not dis1
disc1
fixit shell not there mercutio: m0unds: they release often though compared to freebsd
and debian m0unds: what? mercutio: actually freebsd used to release rpetty often m0unds: freebsd rolled 10.0 last year, 10.1 this year
netbsd rolled 6.1 tree last year, iirc
and they've done 3 minor point releases since (which were all security fixes iirc) mercutio: ahh maybe i'm just nto following it as much
9 to 10 took ages brycec: 9 to 10 was only about a year mercutio: nah it was way more than a year m0unds: NetBSD 6.1 was released in May 2013
they're still on that tree
so no, they're not fast :) mercutio: it's 6.1.5 now though brycec: And prior to that was 2009 m0unds: all the minor point releases were security fixes
i don't think they did much in the way of feature roll-ups mercutio: ahh brycec: (3.5 years between releases :p) mercutio: isn't freebsd 9.2 to 9.3 bug fixes too?
freebsd 9 was 2012
freebsd 10 2014
ok it's not that long between releases
seems to be a couple of years
so freebsd 11 next year? RandalSchwartz: oh... it looks like the 9.x releases can boot disk1 into a livefs mode
so it's only the 8.x stream disc1 that doesn't have livefs mercutio: i think where i thought freebsd 10 took aes is i read about stuff coming in 10 ages ago
but like there's stuff coming in 11 out now ***: toeshred has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
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