i didn't change my zsh configuration for ages
but i founud something really handy recently; zstyle ':completion:*' rehash true
it means you don't have to type rehash after installing packages
does pacman work kind of like  yum and apt-get ?
yeah
"pacman -S zsh" will install zsh
"pacman -Ss zsh" will search for packages that mention zsh
-Ss happens to list grml-zsh-config first fwiw
what still weirds me out is juust how much faster packages install on zsh compared to ubuntu
the difference is very noticable
pacman -S --noconfirm nano  0.09s user 0.03s system 47% cpu 0.251 total
that includes the download
apt-get -y install nano  0.73s user 0.17s system 36% cpu 2.467 total
so yeah including download it's about 10x as fast for small packages
and even if download was instant, ubuntu uses so much cpu/disk/etc that it's still slow
s/zsh/arch/
<mercutio> what still weirds me out is juust how much faster packages install on arch compared to ubuntu
I am linking arch's documentation
s/linking/liking
<mnathani_> I am liking arch's documentation
yeh even if you use ubuntuu it's still useful :)
how do I install pkgtools
or startx
pkgtools?
You can use pkgfile to know which package own a file. pkgfile is bundled in the pkgtools package
oh it's in aur
you need to install cower or such
https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/cower/
so pacman -S cower ?
i use "meat"
nah it's in aur :/
so it's a pita to get the first one
https://github.com/falconindy/cower
so grab that then do makepkg -s
That's what she said!!
then pacman -u the .xz file
err pacman -U
then you can do cower -s to serach
and cower -d to download
cower will download into current directory making a new directory for the package
I need ssh server first
i'd recommend downloading meat first
so I can copy paste
heh
is this on a vm or bare metal?
vm
ahh
i'm doing an arch template for arp
volunteer / paid ?
or in exchange for Vms and ips / bandwidth :-)
heh
so there shoudl be templates early for debian, openbsd etc that are coming out
I always prefer installing my own os
i prefer having auto install for vm's normally
what i hate is when it forces icky things on you
like most of those solusvm providers have sendmail and so on
because someone's done terrible templates that seem to lack useful things like man
but have SENDMAIL
when it's not even default
I got ssh working now
cloned the cower repo
cool
then just makepkg -s on it
==> ERROR: Running makepkg as root is not allowed as it can cause permanent, catastrophic damage to your system.
yeh youu have to sudo it :)
Could not chdir to home directory /home/mnathani: No such file or directory
useradd doesn't add home directory
so it seems
err doesn't create
yeah it's core unix
adduser is a fancy nice script
you hit the same kind of issues on solaris
bash: adduser: command not found
yeah they don't include adduser
just mkdir ~mnathani
chown mnathani ~mnathani
i'm not using cower/meat everywhere fwiw
you can get by without it pretty well
you can just install xorg-xinit
i use lightdm though
==> ERROR: PKGBUILD does not exist.
and it looks really ugly, but i don't care, because i just login :)
when executing the makepkg under mnathani account
are you in the build/cower directory
i use /src/builds to store all of mine
where src is zfs with set mountpoint
  > /home/mnathani/cower
so youu're in the cower directory?
I am
and you can do ls -l PKGBUILD ?
ls: cannot access PKGBUILD: No such file or directory
there's the issue
you sure it's not in a subdir?
like cower/cower :)
6 files in there
config
cower.c
etc
Makefile
it's not got the package hmm
is that the src/ directory ?
bah
nope
no src dir
just curl -O https://weallsee.net/PKGBUILD
i uploaded it there
thanks
sorry for all the newbie questions
yeah it's a pita
i mean cower is
I really need to catch up on reading manuals
it's easier once you have it :)
then you need sudo pacman -U cower-12-2-x86_64.pkg.tar.xz
error after error
oh?
first it wants me to be a sudoer
what's it doing?
I added mysefl to sudo file
su to yourself
if you added yourself to sudo group
now its checking pgp signature
otherwise you're not part of the group
==> ERROR: One or more PGP signatures could not be verified!
https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/cower/
Just a quick thanks to runical, adding "keyserver-options auto-key-retrieve" to my ~/.gnupg/gpg.conf fixed the error I was getting.
it really is a pita isn't it
error: you cannot perform this operation unless you are root.
first it complains as I am root
then I am not sudo
then I am not root
heh what does it need root for?
[mnathani@Arch cower]$ pacman -U cower-12.tar.gz
curl -O https://weallsee.net/cower-12-2-x86_64.pkg.tar.xz
oh
you have to -U the pkg.tar.xz file
and /that/ needs you to sudo for it
sudo pacman -U cower-12-2...
cower-12.tar.gz is the source
makepkg -s should have made that package
That's what she said!!
ok, cool its installed now
oh sweet
so makepkg -s worked fine?
used the one you linked
now in your build directory do cower -d meat
and cd meat
and makepkg -s
and install meat
then it's easy to install stuff :)
there's heaps of alternatives
error: no results found for meat
but meat works fine for me
it maybe meat-git
yeah it's meat-git :)
what else should exist in my build dir
can I just use /root/build ?
nope because you have to build as a normal user
and normal user can't access /root
i dunno what other people do, but i like /src vs /usr/src
and i like having an extra directory for package stuff
some people probably usr /usr/local/src
but /src is much easier to complete to
not using root user is new to me
heh yeh
I usually run everything as root
not using root is growing on me a little
except maybe weechat
yeh i used to root for everything system related
i figure it's more secure having seperate root / normal logins
when you can just sudo su or sudo any command as normal user
it's like your normal user is root
there are a few advantages though
like if you have multiple people doing stuff you can tell who did stuff easier
accounting on a shared system
does arch download everything as source and build
rather than get a binary?
aur stuff yeh
but not for normal packages
whats aur again?
arch user repository
it's where lots of people submit various packages
quality can vary
That's what she said!!
so like infiniband stuff is in there
dropbear is in there it seems
memtest86-efi is in there
ttf-google-fonts-git is in there
none of it is really essential to everyone
how does it compare to say an ubuntu rep
it's like universe/multiverse
compared to the standard rep
except it's kind of more like the extra ubuntu repositorys you can add from external
how would I go about installing kde and x
kde is in base
the kde instructions said have a xserver working before install
and thats when I couldnt get startx working
just pacman -S lightdm
or gdm or whatever you're into
should that bring in the startx command ?
nah
it'll go straight to gui
xorg-xinit will give you startx
apt-get install xorg-xinit >> bash: apt-get: command not found
:-)
2 packages: plasma vs  plasma-meta
hahaa
which one has more stuff
meta probably?
i dununo :)
Hmm.....
pacman -Qo /path/to/file   00:50:02      mnathani_ | You can use pkgfile to know which package own a file.
Personally, mercutio/mnathani_ I'm a fan of yaourt which builds-in sudo, searches ABS and AUR, handles updates, everything! Eg: "yaourt -Syua" update package lists and install updated packages including checking AUR for updated packages.
i read that as yaogurt
The character from Spaceballs?
yeah, haha
Also, "makepkg -i" to build + install (with sudo)
mike-burns: The French for yogurt.
I imagine if you're wanting KDE, you'd use kdm, fwiw.
slow day today :)
Most days :p
http://blog.pcbsd.org/2015/04/pc-bsd-and-4k-oh-my/ mercutio
brycec: i mentioned there were alternatives :)
there are shit loads of them :)
havingg similar syntax to pacman sounds nice though
m0unds: my monitor defaulted to supporting 60 hz, but only through displayport
this motherboard does  4k with onboard video @60 hertz, but only has mini display port.  i ordered a display port adapter off ebay,  and it's come already.  it looks like it's hard to do 60 hortz with onboard video in general.
when i read about that guy going with two 4k monitors taht' is actually a little bit of an issue, because people usually only have one displayport port
They can be chained usually.
That's what she said!!
BryceBot: no
Oh, okay... I'm sorry. 'They can be chained usually.'
(lol)
I liked it for a twss :P
Am I wrong?
no, i was laughing at the bot
Lol gotcha
looks like w/displayport 1.2 you can only drive a single 4k or 2k display per port
Provided the intermediate display supports it, and the display adapter. And 4K maxes out DisplayPort v1.2 bandwidth, so no chaining there.
http://www.displayport.org/cables/driving-multiple-displays-from-a-single-displayport-output/
yeah
lol m0unds
that's what i was just looking at
i remembered seeing it though, must have just been w/1080p displays
It's news to me, but I have 0 DP displays so no reason I would know :p
my desktop monitor has dp, but i use dvi because i didn't have a dp cable
Definitely seems very, very cool. Alas, only my desktop has DP (I think... I know my last gfx card did) so it's not a priority.
brycec: so the bot collects all these twss, does it replay them sometime ?
I'm not understanding the question
do we ever hear back from the bot as in repeat all these phrases that have been recorded
or is it more like a one time  <BryceBot> That's what she said!! << comment and thats it
it doesn't work like that... "twss" trains a bayesian net, akin to spam training. When you "twss" something, it trains the sentence as something "she would say" and that's it. It's not "collected"
(besides by IRC logs, but that's a totally separate thing)
I see
what distribution / BSD most closely resembles archlinux ?
"distribution" almost exclusively refers to Linux, so... the closest Linux to Archlinux would have to be Archlinux.
(though VoidLinux might be a close second)
For BSD's, I'd say FreeBSD
(but take that with a grain of salt - I've only ever used Open, Net, and FreeBSD)
is Arch a top level linux, or does it have an upstream?
none of them
they are all much more conservative than archlinux
mnathani_: Top
I still use Arch and it doesn't require all sorts of free time. Unlike Gentoo... (but that was a long time ago)
I should play with Dragonfly more
is anyone experience serious lag?
I am
i cant use my vps for ♥ nor money
nvm.. stupid sendmail decided to go on a rampage
i killed that ages ago in place of postfix and its rearing it's butt ugly face again
if i had £1 for everytime i forgot to add a new mail alias for root to point to a valid mta, i would be having enough money to buy everyone a round of beer
kern.ipc.maxpipekva exceeded; see tuning(7) is such a lovely message when sendmail/mailwrapper gets in a knot about having nowhere to send anything then just queues
lol grody
i'd say netbsd is more like arch than freebsd
mercutio: What about Dfly or PCBSD? Have you tried those, do they relate at all?
brycec: i awnt to try dragonfly but i haven't
(siteXX.tgz ftw - one of my install.site/upgrade.site's tasks is to ensure there's a sane alias)
but considering they forked freebsd 4, where freebsd started to destabilise, i think it's on the conserwative side
freebsd 2 and 4 were pretty stable
had that from bleeding edge til about a year ago, when the actual hardware systematically died.. was my best file server ever
was there a freebsd 3?
ahh there was 3 but it was shortlived
PCBSD is basically FreeBSD, but all GUId up for you
sounds annoying :)
archlinux is a beast on it's own and is a linux i enjoy next to gentoo.. and if i were to say FreeBSD was like any linux, i would say it was an easy to use gentoo
freebsd kind of annoys me
and i never thought i would read myself typing that
freebsd feels more like redhat
"an easy to use gentoo"
gawd no, redhat is S^&!
wouldn't excrete on it even if it's immolation spelt $500 to put me out
freebsd is more unstable than netbsd or openbsd
freebsd has lost it's way in the last few years, that is fgor sure
i blame apple
netbsd is lean and mean like arch :)
did you ever use slackware grody ?
never actually used netbsd for anything more than pottering on
mercutio, for a while.. until i found gentoo
ahh ok
then my hair started thinning...
i tried using gentoo
i didn't like it
trinux was something i used to use a lot, a floppy based slackware
yea gentoo can be infuriating
it was a very long time ago actually
only using it again atm as im trying to build "the perfect linux" for my tablet, since there is absolutely no or little "official" support, so im stealing drivers and what not from androids that are suspected to work the wifi and touchscreen (only two things holding me back)
but it's  taken bloody ages to get things even barely right
heh
sounds like a huge time sink
it is :(
but windows 8.1 is the only other option (even android x86 has "issues"_
)
windows 10?
you know you want to :)
it's just a tablet
i have the TP on my laptop.. not bad, but i wouldn't put it down as tablet friendly
haha
i have tp on my desktop
for a low ended thing, it's pretty damned fast
ahh crap and now my slave laptop is useless again... i have too much crap going on on this thing
i wonder if any project levering arch is going to make significant headway
like ubuntu is to debian
compiling AOSP for my Sony phone, compiling stuff in Gentoo and now it's gone into meltdown as SWMBO wants to transcode a blueray for the Roku
i only came online to make sure the new box i just put on my network isnt revealing anything to the innerwebs
brycec: what do you think of arch linux for servers?
mercutio, i think Mint did a better working of debian, although they say it's ubuntu derived.. i never got that fully
use Mint quite a lot in fact :/
have arch on the pogoplug
thats currently a backup MTA and web server/.. it /seems/ to have held for some months now
postfix broke recently for me :/
but i haven't had many issues
and it was quite easy to fix
yea, postfix did something weird for me too after an upgrade
some execs moved location and didn't get fixed in a config
ahh
yes that's the issue i had too ;)
symlinked the fuckers
i just fixed the config file
i didnt have time to do that.. but since im online now, i may as well
daemon_directory = /usr/lib/postfix/bin
i think that was it
i think it was without the /bin before
yea
rehash
bleah, wrong terminal
grody: zstyle ':completion:*' rehash true
ahh
dont know why, always have since day 1 of freebsd and stuck since
typing rehash sucks :)
dont usually install new stuff that often
yeah but the amount of times you want to complete on something you've just installed is probably high
Fetching mtr-nox11-0.86.txz: 100%   42 KiB  43.5kB/s    00:01
pkg: cached package mtr-nox11-0.86: size mismatch, fetching from remote
thats annoying
i can sense things are only to get worse if i dig deeper so im going to crack open a brew and watch TV instead :D
grody: Mint was originally forked from Debian, but later on they re-based off Ubuntu.
mercutio: As a "professional practice" I think rolling releases in production are a Bad Idea(tm).
Though even in "production" if updates are carefully checked and tested before being deployed, it's fine.
yeah there are some caveats
I've run it personally. But when it boils down to it, I need a server that doesn't have an 80% chance of breaking when I update, so I stick with "released" things like Debian and OpenBSD :D
i don't think that it's rolling release is necessarily the biggest issue
it's more that it's hard to know what will break where
i never had any issues with FreeBSD until 9/10
4 to 5, 5 to 6, 6 to 8 all fine.. 9 and 10.. wow
9+ eh? That's about when they added ZFS support. Coincidence? :P
and MIMD
but upgrades where all manual and only really security fixes using former portaudit and portupgrade (now seems to all be in pkg)
and a bunch of other things
I'm renting a cheap box at digitalocean running not-zfs-on-root (since they don't support it) build my 8.x, 9.x, and 10.x packages.
by cheap, I'm saying $5/month
and it has 20 GB SSD.
that'll make my migrations easier
I'm tempted to make a ZFS fs by mounting it as a file.
so I'd just have an outer shim to hold the OS, and everything else would be ZFS on a legacy fs.
I've asked them for ZFS on root and it's not on their roadmap
netbsd is pretty conservative. stuff doesn't change on their release branch unless they work in security fixes
their releng guys do a pretty good job (which is why 7 was delayed repeatedly)
the freebsd fixit shell is only on the dvd1 release, right?
you'll get a shell on the cd image
not dis1
disc1
fixit shell not there
m0unds: they release often though compared to freebsd
and debian
what?
actually freebsd used to release rpetty often
freebsd rolled 10.0 last year, 10.1 this year
netbsd rolled 6.1 tree last year, iirc
and they've done 3 minor point releases since (which were all security fixes iirc)
ahh maybe i'm just nto following it as much
9 to 10 took ages
9 to 10 was only about a year
nah it was way more than a year
NetBSD 6.1 was released in May 2013
they're still on that tree
so no, they're not fast :)
it's 6.1.5 now though
And prior to that was 2009
all the minor point releases were security fixes
i don't think they did much in the way of feature roll-ups
ahh
(3.5 years between releases :p)
isn't freebsd 9.2 to 9.3 bug fixes too?
freebsd 9 was 2012
freebsd 10 2014
ok it's not that long between releases
seems to be a couple of years
so freebsd 11 next year?
oh... it looks like the 9.x releases can boot disk1 into a livefs mode
so it's only the 8.x stream disc1 that doesn't have livefs
i think where i thought freebsd 10 took aes is i read about stuff coming in 10 ages ago
but like there's stuff coming in 11 out now