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| Who | What | When |
|---|---|---|
| mercutio | i didn't change my zsh configuration for ages
but i founud something really handy recently; zstyle ':completion:*' rehash true it means you don't have to type rehash after installing packages | [00:17] |
| mnathani_ | does pacman work kind of like yum and apt-get ? | [00:21] |
| mercutio | yeah
"pacman -S zsh" will install zsh "pacman -Ss zsh" will search for packages that mention zsh -Ss happens to list grml-zsh-config first fwiw what still weirds me out is juust how much faster packages install on zsh compared to ubuntu the difference is very noticable pacman -S --noconfirm nano 0.09s user 0.03s system 47% cpu 0.251 total that includes the download apt-get -y install nano 0.73s user 0.17s system 36% cpu 2.467 total so yeah including download it's about 10x as fast for small packages and even if download was instant, ubuntu uses so much cpu/disk/etc that it's still slow s/zsh/arch/ | [00:22] |
| BryceBot | <mercutio> what still weirds me out is juust how much faster packages install on arch compared to ubuntu | [00:27] |
| mnathani_ | I am linking arch's documentation
s/linking/liking | [00:36] |
| BryceBot | <mnathani_> I am liking arch's documentation | [00:37] |
| mercutio | yeh even if you use ubuntuu it's still useful :) | [00:37] |
| mnathani_ | how do I install pkgtools
or startx | [00:51] |
| mercutio | pkgtools? | [00:51] |
| mnathani_ | You can use pkgfile to know which package own a file. pkgfile is bundled in the pkgtools package | [00:51] |
| mercutio | oh it's in aur
you need to install cower or such https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/cower/ | [00:52] |
| mnathani_ | so pacman -S cower ? | [00:52] |
| mercutio | i use "meat"
nah it's in aur :/ so it's a pita to get the first one https://github.com/falconindy/cower so grab that then do makepkg -s | [00:52] |
| BryceBot | That's what she said!! | [00:54] |
| mercutio | then pacman -u the .xz file
err pacman -U then you can do cower -s to serach and cower -d to download cower will download into current directory making a new directory for the package | [00:54] |
| mnathani_ | I need ssh server first | [00:55] |
| mercutio | i'd recommend downloading meat first | [00:55] |
| mnathani_ | so I can copy paste | [00:55] |
| mercutio | heh
is this on a vm or bare metal? | [00:55] |
| mnathani_ | vm | [00:55] |
| mercutio | ahh
i'm doing an arch template for arp | [00:55] |
| mnathani_ | volunteer / paid ?
or in exchange for Vms and ips / bandwidth :-) | [00:56] |
| mercutio | heh
so there shoudl be templates early for debian, openbsd etc that are coming out | [00:56] |
| mnathani_ | I always prefer installing my own os | [00:58] |
| mercutio | i prefer having auto install for vm's normally
what i hate is when it forces icky things on you like most of those solusvm providers have sendmail and so on because someone's done terrible templates that seem to lack useful things like man but have SENDMAIL when it's not even default | [00:59] |
| mnathani_ | I got ssh working now
cloned the cower repo | [01:02] |
| mercutio | cool
then just makepkg -s on it | [01:04] |
| mnathani_ | ==> ERROR: Running makepkg as root is not allowed as it can cause permanent, catastrophic damage to your system. | [01:04] |
| mercutio | yeh youu have to sudo it :) | [01:04] |
| mnathani_ | Could not chdir to home directory /home/mnathani: No such file or directory | [01:04] |
| mercutio | useradd doesn't add home directory | [01:04] |
| mnathani_ | so it seems | [01:04] |
| mercutio | err doesn't create
yeah it's core unix adduser is a fancy nice script you hit the same kind of issues on solaris | [01:04] |
| mnathani_ | bash: adduser: command not found | [01:05] |
| mercutio | yeah they don't include adduser
just mkdir ~mnathani chown mnathani ~mnathani i'm not using cower/meat everywhere fwiw you can get by without it pretty well you can just install xorg-xinit i use lightdm though | [01:05] |
| mnathani_ | ==> ERROR: PKGBUILD does not exist. | [01:07] |
| mercutio | and it looks really ugly, but i don't care, because i just login :) | [01:07] |
| mnathani_ | when executing the makepkg under mnathani account | [01:08] |
| mercutio | are you in the build/cower directory
i use /src/builds to store all of mine where src is zfs with set mountpoint | [01:08] |
| mnathani_ | > /home/mnathani/cower | [01:08] |
| mercutio | so youu're in the cower directory? | [01:09] |
| mnathani_ | I am | [01:09] |
| mercutio | and you can do ls -l PKGBUILD ? | [01:09] |
| mnathani_ | ls: cannot access PKGBUILD: No such file or directory | [01:09] |
| mercutio | there's the issue
you sure it's not in a subdir? like cower/cower :) | [01:09] |
| mnathani_ | 6 files in there
config cower.c etc Makefile | [01:10] |
| mercutio | it's not got the package hmm
is that the src/ directory ? bah | [01:10] |
| mnathani_ | nope
no src dir | [01:10] |
| mercutio | just curl -O https://weallsee.net/PKGBUILD
i uploaded it there | [01:11] |
| mnathani_ | thanks
sorry for all the newbie questions | [01:12] |
| mercutio | yeah it's a pita
i mean cower is | [01:12] |
| mnathani_ | I really need to catch up on reading manuals | [01:12] |
| mercutio | it's easier once you have it :)
then you need sudo pacman -U cower-12-2-x86_64.pkg.tar.xz | [01:13] |
| mnathani_ | error after error | [01:14] |
| mercutio | oh? | [01:14] |
| mnathani_ | first it wants me to be a sudoer | [01:14] |
| mercutio | what's it doing? | [01:14] |
| mnathani_ | I added mysefl to sudo file | [01:14] |
| mercutio | su to yourself
if you added yourself to sudo group | [01:14] |
| mnathani_ | now its checking pgp signature | [01:14] |
| mercutio | otherwise you're not part of the group | [01:14] |
| mnathani_ | ==> ERROR: One or more PGP signatures could not be verified! | [01:15] |
| mercutio | https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/cower/
Just a quick thanks to runical, adding "keyserver-options auto-key-retrieve" to my ~/.gnupg/gpg.conf fixed the error I was getting. it really is a pita isn't it | [01:15] |
| mnathani_ | error: you cannot perform this operation unless you are root.
first it complains as I am root then I am not sudo then I am not root | [01:15] |
| mercutio | heh what does it need root for? | [01:16] |
| mnathani_ | [mnathani@Arch cower]$ pacman -U cower-12.tar.gz | [01:16] |
| mercutio | curl -O https://weallsee.net/cower-12-2-x86_64.pkg.tar.xz
oh you have to -U the pkg.tar.xz file and /that/ needs you to sudo for it sudo pacman -U cower-12-2... cower-12.tar.gz is the source makepkg -s should have made that package | [01:16] |
| BryceBot | That's what she said!! | [01:17] |
| mnathani_ | ok, cool its installed now | [01:17] |
| mercutio | oh sweet
so makepkg -s worked fine? | [01:17] |
| mnathani_ | used the one you linked | [01:18] |
| mercutio | now in your build directory do cower -d meat
and cd meat and makepkg -s and install meat then it's easy to install stuff :) there's heaps of alternatives | [01:18] |
| mnathani_ | error: no results found for meat | [01:18] |
| mercutio | but meat works fine for me
it maybe meat-git yeah it's meat-git :) | [01:18] |
| mnathani_ | what else should exist in my build dir
can I just use /root/build ? | [01:19] |
| mercutio | nope because you have to build as a normal user
and normal user can't access /root i dunno what other people do, but i like /src vs /usr/src and i like having an extra directory for package stuff some people probably usr /usr/local/src but /src is much easier to complete to | [01:19] |
| mnathani_ | not using root user is new to me | [01:21] |
| mercutio | heh yeh | [01:21] |
| mnathani_ | I usually run everything as root | [01:21] |
| mercutio | not using root is growing on me a little | [01:21] |
| mnathani_ | except maybe weechat | [01:21] |
| mercutio | yeh i used to root for everything system related
i figure it's more secure having seperate root / normal logins when you can just sudo su or sudo any command as normal user it's like your normal user is root there are a few advantages though like if you have multiple people doing stuff you can tell who did stuff easier | [01:21] |
| mnathani_ | accounting on a shared system
does arch download everything as source and build rather than get a binary? | [01:22] |
| mercutio | aur stuff yeh
but not for normal packages | [01:24] |
| mnathani_ | whats aur again? | [01:24] |
| mercutio | arch user repository
it's where lots of people submit various packages quality can vary | [01:24] |
| BryceBot | That's what she said!! | [01:24] |
| mercutio | so like infiniband stuff is in there
dropbear is in there it seems memtest86-efi is in there ttf-google-fonts-git is in there none of it is really essential to everyone | [01:25] |
| mnathani_ | how does it compare to say an ubuntu rep | [01:26] |
| mercutio | it's like universe/multiverse
compared to the standard rep except it's kind of more like the extra ubuntu repositorys you can add from external | [01:26] |
| mnathani_ | how would I go about installing kde and x | [01:28] |
| mercutio | kde is in base | [01:28] |
| mnathani_ | the kde instructions said have a xserver working before install
and thats when I couldnt get startx working | [01:29] |
| mercutio | just pacman -S lightdm
or gdm or whatever you're into | [01:29] |
| mnathani_ | should that bring in the startx command ? | [01:30] |
| mercutio | nah
it'll go straight to gui xorg-xinit will give you startx | [01:30] |
| mnathani_ | apt-get install xorg-xinit >> bash: apt-get: command not found
:-) 2 packages: plasma vs plasma-meta | [01:31] |
| mercutio | hahaa | [01:32] |
| mnathani_ | which one has more stuff | [01:32] |
| mercutio | meta probably?
i dununo :) | [01:32] |
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| kevr | Hmm..... | [01:52] |
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| brycec | pacman -Qo /path/to/file 00:50:02 mnathani_ | You can use pkgfile to know which package own a file.
Personally, mercutio/mnathani_ I'm a fan of yaourt which builds-in sudo, searches ABS and AUR, handles updates, everything! Eg: "yaourt -Syua" update package lists and install updated packages including checking AUR for updated packages. | [07:41] |
| m0unds | i read that as yaogurt | [07:43] |
| mike-burns | The character from Spaceballs? | [07:43] |
| m0unds | yeah, haha | [07:44] |
| brycec | Also, "makepkg -i" to build + install (with sudo)
mike-burns: The French for yogurt. I imagine if you're wanting KDE, you'd use kdm, fwiw. | [07:44] |
| .................................................... (idle for 4h17mn) | ||
| RandalSchwartz | slow day today :) | [12:03] |
| brycec | Most days :p | [12:09] |
| ......... (idle for 44mn) | ||
| m0unds | http://blog.pcbsd.org/2015/04/pc-bsd-and-4k-oh-my/ mercutio | [12:53] |
| .... (idle for 16mn) | ||
| mercutio | brycec: i mentioned there were alternatives :)
there are shit loads of them :) havingg similar syntax to pacman sounds nice though m0unds: my monitor defaulted to supporting 60 hz, but only through displayport this motherboard does 4k with onboard video @60 hertz, but only has mini display port. i ordered a display port adapter off ebay, and it's come already. it looks like it's hard to do 60 hortz with onboard video in general. when i read about that guy going with two 4k monitors taht' is actually a little bit of an issue, because people usually only have one displayport port | [13:09] |
| ........................................................... (idle for 4h50mn) | ||
| himuraken | They can be chained usually. | [18:05] |
| BryceBot | That's what she said!! | [18:05] |
| m0unds | BryceBot: no | [18:08] |
| BryceBot | Oh, okay... I'm sorry. 'They can be chained usually.' | [18:08] |
| m0unds | (lol) | [18:08] |
| brycec | I liked it for a twss :P | [18:09] |
| himuraken | Am I wrong? | [18:09] |
| m0unds | no, i was laughing at the bot | [18:09] |
| himuraken | Lol gotcha | [18:09] |
| m0unds | looks like w/displayport 1.2 you can only drive a single 4k or 2k display per port | [18:11] |
| brycec | Provided the intermediate display supports it, and the display adapter. And 4K maxes out DisplayPort v1.2 bandwidth, so no chaining there.
http://www.displayport.org/cables/driving-multiple-displays-from-a-single-displayport-output/ | [18:11] |
| m0unds | yeah | [18:11] |
| brycec | lol m0unds | [18:11] |
| m0unds | that's what i was just looking at
i remembered seeing it though, must have just been w/1080p displays | [18:11] |
| brycec | It's news to me, but I have 0 DP displays so no reason I would know :p | [18:12] |
| m0unds | my desktop monitor has dp, but i use dvi because i didn't have a dp cable | [18:12] |
| brycec | Definitely seems very, very cool. Alas, only my desktop has DP (I think... I know my last gfx card did) so it's not a priority. | [18:14] |
| mnathani_ | brycec: so the bot collects all these twss, does it replay them sometime ? | [18:18] |
| brycec | I'm not understanding the question | [18:18] |
| mnathani_ | do we ever hear back from the bot as in repeat all these phrases that have been recorded
or is it more like a one time <BryceBot> That's what she said!! << comment and thats it | [18:19] |
| brycec | it doesn't work like that... "twss" trains a bayesian net, akin to spam training. When you "twss" something, it trains the sentence as something "she would say" and that's it. It's not "collected"
(besides by IRC logs, but that's a totally separate thing) | [18:20] |
| mnathani_ | I see
what distribution / BSD most closely resembles archlinux ? | [18:21] |
| brycec | "distribution" almost exclusively refers to Linux, so... the closest Linux to Archlinux would have to be Archlinux.
(though VoidLinux might be a close second) For BSD's, I'd say FreeBSD (but take that with a grain of salt - I've only ever used Open, Net, and FreeBSD) | [18:25] |
| mnathani_ | is Arch a top level linux, or does it have an upstream? | [18:27] |
| mkb | none of them
they are all much more conservative than archlinux | [18:27] |
| brycec | mnathani_: Top | [18:30] |
| mkb | mkb remembers when he used to use arch and had all this free time for messing with my computer | [18:35] |
| brycec | I still use Arch and it doesn't require all sorts of free time. Unlike Gentoo... (but that was a long time ago) | [18:36] |
| twobithacker | I should play with Dragonfly more | [18:40] |
| ......... (idle for 40mn) | ||
| grody | is anyone experience serious lag? | [19:20] |
| RandalSchwartz | I am | [19:20] |
| grody | i cant use my vps for ♥ nor money
nvm.. stupid sendmail decided to go on a rampage i killed that ages ago in place of postfix and its rearing it's butt ugly face again | [19:20] |
| .... (idle for 15mn) | ||
| if i had £1 for everytime i forgot to add a new mail alias for root to point to a valid mta, i would be having enough money to buy everyone a round of beer
kern.ipc.maxpipekva exceeded; see tuning(7) is such a lovely message when sendmail/mailwrapper gets in a knot about having nowhere to send anything then just queues | [19:40] | |
| brycec | lol grody | [19:44] |
| mercutio | i'd say netbsd is more like arch than freebsd | [19:45] |
| brycec | mercutio: What about Dfly or PCBSD? Have you tried those, do they relate at all? | [19:45] |
| mercutio | brycec: i awnt to try dragonfly but i haven't | [19:45] |
| brycec | (siteXX.tgz ftw - one of my install.site/upgrade.site's tasks is to ensure there's a sane alias) | [19:45] |
| mercutio | but considering they forked freebsd 4, where freebsd started to destabilise, i think it's on the conserwative side | [19:46] |
| grody | grody misses his 4.11 box | [19:46] |
| mercutio | freebsd 2 and 4 were pretty stable | [19:46] |
| grody | had that from bleeding edge til about a year ago, when the actual hardware systematically died.. was my best file server ever | [19:46] |
| mercutio | was there a freebsd 3?
ahh there was 3 but it was shortlived | [19:47] |
| grody | PCBSD is basically FreeBSD, but all GUId up for you | [19:48] |
| mercutio | sounds annoying :) | [19:48] |
| grody | archlinux is a beast on it's own and is a linux i enjoy next to gentoo.. and if i were to say FreeBSD was like any linux, i would say it was an easy to use gentoo | [19:49] |
| mercutio | freebsd kind of annoys me | [19:49] |
| grody | and i never thought i would read myself typing that | [19:49] |
| mercutio | freebsd feels more like redhat | [19:49] |
| grody | "an easy to use gentoo"
gawd no, redhat is S^&! wouldn't excrete on it even if it's immolation spelt $500 to put me out | [19:49] |
| mercutio | freebsd is more unstable than netbsd or openbsd | [19:50] |
| grody | freebsd has lost it's way in the last few years, that is fgor sure
i blame apple | [19:50] |
| mercutio | netbsd is lean and mean like arch :)
did you ever use slackware grody ? | [19:50] |
| grody | never actually used netbsd for anything more than pottering on
mercutio, for a while.. until i found gentoo | [19:51] |
| mercutio | ahh ok | [19:51] |
| grody | then my hair started thinning... | [19:51] |
| mercutio | i tried using gentoo
i didn't like it | [19:51] |
| grody | trinux was something i used to use a lot, a floppy based slackware
yea gentoo can be infuriating | [19:52] |
| mercutio | it was a very long time ago actually | [19:52] |
| grody | only using it again atm as im trying to build "the perfect linux" for my tablet, since there is absolutely no or little "official" support, so im stealing drivers and what not from androids that are suspected to work the wifi and touchscreen (only two things holding me back)
but it's taken bloody ages to get things even barely right | [19:53] |
| mercutio | heh
sounds like a huge time sink | [19:53] |
| grody | it is :(
but windows 8.1 is the only other option (even android x86 has "issues"_ ) | [19:53] |
| mercutio | windows 10?
you know you want to :) it's just a tablet | [19:54] |
| grody | i have the TP on my laptop.. not bad, but i wouldn't put it down as tablet friendly
haha | [19:54] |
| mercutio | i have tp on my desktop | [19:55] |
| grody | for a low ended thing, it's pretty damned fast
ahh crap and now my slave laptop is useless again... i have too much crap going on on this thing | [19:55] |
| mercutio | i wonder if any project levering arch is going to make significant headway
like ubuntu is to debian | [19:56] |
| grody | compiling AOSP for my Sony phone, compiling stuff in Gentoo and now it's gone into meltdown as SWMBO wants to transcode a blueray for the Roku
i only came online to make sure the new box i just put on my network isnt revealing anything to the innerwebs | [19:56] |
| mercutio | brycec: what do you think of arch linux for servers? | [19:59] |
| grody | mercutio, i think Mint did a better working of debian, although they say it's ubuntu derived.. i never got that fully
use Mint quite a lot in fact :/ have arch on the pogoplug thats currently a backup MTA and web server/.. it /seems/ to have held for some months now | [19:59] |
| mercutio | postfix broke recently for me :/
but i haven't had many issues and it was quite easy to fix | [20:00] |
| grody | yea, postfix did something weird for me too after an upgrade
some execs moved location and didn't get fixed in a config | [20:01] |
| mercutio | ahh
yes that's the issue i had too ;) | [20:01] |
| grody | symlinked the fuckers | [20:01] |
| mercutio | i just fixed the config file | [20:01] |
| grody | i didnt have time to do that.. but since im online now, i may as well | [20:02] |
| mercutio | daemon_directory = /usr/lib/postfix/bin
i think that was it i think it was without the /bin before | [20:02] |
| grody | yea
rehash bleah, wrong terminal | [20:02] |
| mercutio | grody: zstyle ':completion:*' rehash true | [20:03] |
| grody | grody uses csh | [20:04] |
| mercutio | ahh | [20:04] |
| grody | dont know why, always have since day 1 of freebsd and stuck since | [20:04] |
| mercutio | typing rehash sucks :) | [20:04] |
| grody | dont usually install new stuff that often | [20:04] |
| mercutio | yeah but the amount of times you want to complete on something you've just installed is probably high | [20:05] |
| grody | Fetching mtr-nox11-0.86.txz: 100% 42 KiB 43.5kB/s 00:01
pkg: cached package mtr-nox11-0.86: size mismatch, fetching from remote thats annoying i can sense things are only to get worse if i dig deeper so im going to crack open a brew and watch TV instead :D | [20:06] |
| ....... (idle for 34mn) | ||
| brycec | grody: Mint was originally forked from Debian, but later on they re-based off Ubuntu.
mercutio: As a "professional practice" I think rolling releases in production are a Bad Idea(tm). Though even in "production" if updates are carefully checked and tested before being deployed, it's fine. | [20:41] |
| mercutio | yeah there are some caveats | [20:43] |
| brycec | I've run it personally. But when it boils down to it, I need a server that doesn't have an 80% chance of breaking when I update, so I stick with "released" things like Debian and OpenBSD :D | [20:45] |
| mercutio | i don't think that it's rolling release is necessarily the biggest issue
it's more that it's hard to know what will break where | [20:45] |
| grody | i never had any issues with FreeBSD until 9/10
4 to 5, 5 to 6, 6 to 8 all fine.. 9 and 10.. wow | [20:54] |
| brycec | 9+ eh? That's about when they added ZFS support. Coincidence? :P | [20:55] |
| RandalSchwartz | and MIMD | [20:55] |
| grody | but upgrades where all manual and only really security fixes using former portaudit and portupgrade (now seems to all be in pkg) | [20:55] |
| RandalSchwartz | and a bunch of other things
I'm renting a cheap box at digitalocean running not-zfs-on-root (since they don't support it) build my 8.x, 9.x, and 10.x packages. by cheap, I'm saying $5/month and it has 20 GB SSD. that'll make my migrations easier I'm tempted to make a ZFS fs by mounting it as a file. so I'd just have an outer shim to hold the OS, and everything else would be ZFS on a legacy fs. I've asked them for ZFS on root and it's not on their roadmap | [20:55] |
| m0unds | netbsd is pretty conservative. stuff doesn't change on their release branch unless they work in security fixes
their releng guys do a pretty good job (which is why 7 was delayed repeatedly) | [21:01] |
| RandalSchwartz | the freebsd fixit shell is only on the dvd1 release, right? | [21:02] |
| mjp__ | you'll get a shell on the cd image | [21:03] |
| RandalSchwartz | not dis1
disc1 fixit shell not there | [21:03] |
| mercutio | m0unds: they release often though compared to freebsd
and debian | [21:06] |
| m0unds | what? | [21:06] |
| mercutio | actually freebsd used to release rpetty often | [21:06] |
| m0unds | freebsd rolled 10.0 last year, 10.1 this year
netbsd rolled 6.1 tree last year, iirc and they've done 3 minor point releases since (which were all security fixes iirc) | [21:06] |
| mercutio | ahh maybe i'm just nto following it as much
9 to 10 took ages | [21:07] |
| brycec | 9 to 10 was only about a year | [21:07] |
| mercutio | nah it was way more than a year | [21:07] |
| m0unds | NetBSD 6.1 was released in May 2013
they're still on that tree so no, they're not fast :) | [21:08] |
| mercutio | it's 6.1.5 now though | [21:08] |
| brycec | And prior to that was 2009 | [21:08] |
| m0unds | all the minor point releases were security fixes
i don't think they did much in the way of feature roll-ups | [21:08] |
| mercutio | ahh | [21:08] |
| brycec | (3.5 years between releases :p) | [21:08] |
| mercutio | isn't freebsd 9.2 to 9.3 bug fixes too?
freebsd 9 was 2012 freebsd 10 2014 ok it's not that long between releases seems to be a couple of years so freebsd 11 next year? | [21:08] |
| RandalSchwartz | oh... it looks like the 9.x releases can boot disk1 into a livefs mode
so it's only the 8.x stream disc1 that doesn't have livefs | [21:13] |
| mercutio | i think where i thought freebsd 10 took aes is i read about stuff coming in 10 ages ago
but like there's stuff coming in 11 out now | [21:14] |
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