#arpnetworks 2015-04-18,Sat

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WhoWhatWhen
mercutioarch has been doing X upgrades again.
one important one fixed my 2d performance bug, but normally X upgrades seem to create issues without acutally helping me :)
well it's not nearly so bad when you use open source drivers. 		[00:00]
brycecI know what you mean. [00:01]
mercutiobut i do like haven't recent versions of chrome, firefox etc.
and i wonder if some kind of split stable base with fast moving packages would be easier.
atm i have; /usr/lib/bfd-plugins/LLVMgold.so exists in both 'llvm-libs-svn' and 'llvm-libs' 		[00:03]
BryceBotSTOP ATTACKING GNU SOFTWARE! [00:04]
brycec(^ joke from another channel) [00:04]
mercutioi joined #devious
i noticed brycebot is in there too 		[00:04]
brycecBryceBot is many places.... [00:05]
mercutioahh ok, i'm not stalking you :/ [00:05]
brycechttp://explosm.net/comics/3901/ lol [00:05]
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m0undsahahah
argh, these random cold snaps keep screwing with my trees 		[07:42]
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brycecprotip: Evergreens :p
then again, with the heat you see... 		[09:29]
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m0undsi have more evergreens than trees
and it's not that hot here relative to socal or arizona or texas
this tree was nearly killed by my redneck idiot neighbor dumping a 5 gallon container of gasoline in my front yard "on accident"
so every time it starts to get buds, we excited and then the temp crashes and it loses all of them
then looks like an old balding man come summertime 		[09:54]
brycecD: [09:59]
m0undspretty sad w/the patchy leaves and stuff [10:00]
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mercutiom0unds: maybe youu need bigger trees to protect the smaller ones? [12:27]
m0undsthey're not small [12:28]
mercutioof course that'll take a while. but too many people seem to decide to get rid of "annoying" trees here, without nearly as many planting them.
well evne having more may protect more :) 		[12:28]
m0undsall my trees are least 20m tall, haha
they're big guys 		[12:28]
mercutiooh [12:28]
m0undsit's just the one sucking up gasoline has sort of caused issues for it for going on 3 years [12:29]
mercutioi don't like evergreens
it feels like cheating :/ 		[12:29]
m0undswell, the ones i have are common in NM
because it's a desert + high elevation 		[12:29]
mercutiohmm
yeh i know nothign abouut desserts :) 		[12:29]
m0undsi'm at around 1800m above sea level [12:30]
mercutioerr deserts.
wow that's quiute high up from what i recall 		[12:30]
m0undsthey're all a bit different
desert here is different than desert in AZ 		[12:30]
mercutioi wonder if those google maps find alittude thing is accurate
http://www.daftlogic.com/sandbox-google-maps-find-altitude.htm
oh it doesn't do right city by default olike google maps does :)
it says 16.8 metres
and it feels high up here :/ 		[12:31]
m0undsumm, looks right
1766m
highest point is 4013m
in the state, i mean
using steammover to relocate x-plane from one of my SSDs back to a platter disk is taking forever
[12:32]
mercutioi tried jjust moving a steam directory one time
nad it seemed to be downloading everything again buut it wsa too late. 		[12:38]
m0undsdoh
i keep a snapshot of my steam directory on my nas
back it up every month or so 		[12:39]
mercutioi have 3 steam directories it seems.
i'm not backing mine up atm 		[12:39]
m0undswhat i usually end up doing when i reinstall is rename my old steam dir (it's not on my OS drive) and then install steam fresh, then before starting it, i rename the new dir and then rename the old dir to the new one [12:40]
mercutioi mostly play dota, and it downloads quick.
well quick enough to not be too fussed. 		[12:40]
m0undsthen when i start, it just checks stuff and doesn't reacquire content. only hassle is having to reinstall some stuff the first time i start it
but the cache files are there and intact 		[12:40]
mercutioi was experimenting with caching steam before :/
with proxy
normal steam caches some files quite easily.
it pulls from different mirrors though
and it seems worse if you keep repeating it.
i was trying to see how fast i could mkae it download
so evergreen means you don't lose leaves in winter, right? 		[12:40]
m0undsright, they just lose needles
but not til they're bare like a deciduous tree 		[12:42]
mercutioi think most trees don't lose leaves that much in winter here [12:42]
m0undsthey just occasionally lose some needles as branches grow and stuff [12:42]
mercutioi remember a lot more leaves in autumn in my previous city.
there are leaves, just not as many :) 		[12:42]
m0undshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinus_nigra [12:43]
BryceBotPinus nigra :: Pinus nigra (black pine) is a moderately variable species of pine, occurring across southern Mediterranean Europe from Spain to the eastern Mediterranean on Anatolian peninsula of Turkey and on Corsica/Cyprus, including Crimea, and in the high mountains of the Maghreb in North Africa. Distribution Pinus nigra is a tree of the Mediterranean forests, woodlands, and scrub biome. The majority of the range is in Turkey... [12:43]
mercutiothere was much more of a contrast in my old city [12:43]
m0undsthere's a band of cottonwood trees that runs along the river here that turns into a sort of bright orange / red belt in the fall [12:44]
mercutioapparently this city is sub-tropical now
i think that means we don't have fall 		[12:45]
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RandalSchwartzno fall? http://www.metacafe.com/watch/7672421/downfall_2004/
Hitler would not be amused. :)
I'd seen so many of those hitler parodies that when I finally watched the real movie, it seemed like a parody of those parodies. :) 		[13:50]
mercutioheh [14:01]
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mercutioapparently openbsd's pf is coming to solaris
doesn't os x have pf too? 		[14:11]
mnathani@weather - v yyz [14:12]
BryceBotError, No cities match your search query [14:12]
brycecSolaris *12* which is, relatively, a long ways away. [14:12]
mercutioit's the space. [14:12]
mnathani@weather -v yyz [14:13]
BryceBotToronto-Pearson International, Ontario: Partly Cloudy ☁ 63°F (17°C), Humidity: 30%, Wind: From the North at 13 MPH Gusting to 20 MPH, Pressure: 30.12inHg (1020mb) and rising, Dewpoint: 30°F (-1°C), Visibility: 15Mi (24km), UV index: 3, Sunrise 06:31, Sunset: 20:05, Lunar phase: New moon
Saturday: Clear 68°F/38°F (20°C/3°C) | Sunday: Partly Cloudy 51°F/44°F (11°C/7°C) | Monday: Rain 60°F/43°F (16°C/6°C) | Tuesday: Chance of Rain 55°F/36°F (13°C/2°C)
The average high for this date is 53°F (11°C), and the record of 77°F (25°C) was set in 2002. The average low is 36°F (2°C), and the record of 27°F (-2°C) was set in 2012 		[14:13]
mercutio11.3 this says
adn by 12 they want to make it standard 		[14:13]
brycecYeah, 11.3 beta usage
And yes osx allegedly has pf 		[14:13]
mercutioi wonder if linux will get pf too :) [14:13]
brycecSeems doubtful
They're pretty fond of iptables
Not to mention everything getting pf is rooted in BSD
(where Linux is not) 		[14:15]
mercutiois solaris rooted in bsd?
solaris is system v :/ 		[14:15]
brycecSunOS was based on BSD I know [14:16]
mercutioyeh
sunos was bsd solaris was systemv
so there's probably some bsd in there somewhere
sunos is pretty old now though :)
latest release 1994 apparently 		[14:16]
brycecSystemV was a combination of BSD, Xenix, and SunOS [14:17]
mercutioahh [14:17]
brycec(Source https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UNIX_System_V#SVR4) [14:18]
BryceBotUNIX System V :: UNIX System V (pronounced: "System Five") is one of the first commercial versions of the Unix operating system. It was originally developed by AT&T and first released in 1983. Four major versions of System V were released, numbered 1, 2, 3, and 4. System V Release 4, or SVR4, was commercially the most successful version, being the result of an effort, marketed as "Unix System Unification", which solicited the collaboration... [14:18]
mercutiowhat's linxu couunted as? [14:18]
brycecLinux wasn't based on anything, it was written from scratch to emulate Unix [14:19]
mercutioi don't mean source wise i mean idealogy
it seems they've come into one now though :)
now it's all POSIX 		[14:19]
brycecWell everything is POSIX... Even windows conforms to most POSIX standars :p [14:20]
mercutioreading openbsd's network code is so different from reading linux's though
in the kernel 		[14:20]
brycec*standards [14:20]
mercutiolinux's is way more complicated. [14:20]
brycecQuite true. [14:20]
mercutioopenbsd stock has quite a few limitations network wise though :/
like can't use very large tcp window sizes 		[14:21]
mike-burnsGNU is more SysV than BSD, to answer that question. [14:21]
mercutiognu isn't linux though [14:21]
mike-burnsIndeed. [14:22]
brycec"GNU's Not Unix" :p [14:22]
mercutioi still want to see openbsd type uuserland with linux kernel [14:22]
mike-burnsLinux is just POSIX-ish.
mercutio: https://github.com/UNGLinux 		[14:22]
mercutioi don't think it'll happen [14:22]
brycechttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Unix_timeline.en.svg [14:24]
mercutiowow glibc is only 1.9mb [14:26]
m0undsmercutio: yes, OSX has pf as of either 10.9 or 10.10 [14:26]
mercutiothat seems much smaller than i remembered it being
i remember when libc5 to libc6 migration came every single program used more memory
m0unds: i thought it was before that 		[14:26]
mike-burnsThey save on memory usage by not including strlcpy(3). [14:29]
m0undsafaik, it wasn't
just ipfw til then 		[14:29]
mercutioi found i could save memory with static linking if you have a binary running lots of times at once
not that people care about memory usage anymore :) 		[14:29]
m0undsoh, 10.7
they /removed/ ipfw in 10.10
there we go 		[14:30]
mike-burnsWeb browser devs sure don't care about memory usage. [14:30]
mercutioheh i found links such a memory hog
but elinks was worse
chrome is just insane :/ 		[14:30]
mike-burnsFirefox has leaked memory since its first release. [14:31]
mercutioi found opera was better for memory usage
i wonder if there are any efforts to improve chromium's memory usage 		[14:32]
mike-burnsWell considering they've started implementing their own GUI render for Chromium instead of relying on e.g. X or GTK, my guess is: no. [14:34]
mercutiothat shouldn't make much difference
there is hundreds of mb usuued 		[14:34]
mike-burnsSure, but I already have X, Xlibs, and GTK in memory; they could make use of that. [14:35]
mercutiobut heaps of processes makes it harder to count
800mb showing the start page
ps auxw | grep chromi | awk '{ SUM += $6 } END { print SUM/1024 }'
doing that
so yeah i don't think gtk would help muuch 		[14:35]
mike-burnsThat is impressive. [14:38]
mercutioi wonder if there's anythign i can do to reduce
weird about:memory shows much lower
butu adblock alone uses heaps
oh i think some of it is threads
and it's only 760mb if you run a bit longer..
even early chrome was a memory hog though
chrome://memory-redirect
hmm on windows it's using over 10gb of memory
on linux it says like 380mb, but ps / awk says like 760mb
so about twice as much
maybe it's some memory allocator wastage or something
buteven with a busy browser on opera it used to use like 2gb ram max? 		[14:39]
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RandalSchwartzRandalSchwartz waves [20:00]
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