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mercutio: err gb i mean :)
<br> and yeah they make 128mb ssd's
<br> my first ssd was 32mb
<br> it was ide
<br> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Transcend-40-Pin-IDE-Flash-Module-32MB-Disk-On-Modulel-IDE-FLASH-Card-/301142153566?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item461d78995e
<br> oh look you can still get 32mb ssd's
<br> http://www.ebay.com/itm/PQI-128MB-IDE-40-Pin-DOM-Disk-on-Module-SSD-Flash-DJ0128M22RF0-neu-inkl-MwSt-/361200467649?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_77&hash=item541939bec1
brycec: Yeah I figured you meant GB :P And I meant do they *still* make...
mercutio: i'd go for that though, 128mb is better
<br> oh right, yeah
<br> you can get 128 and 256
<br> 128gb is fine for most people
<br> 64gb is probably fine for a lot of users now that windows is getting smaller
<br> but i was thinking it'd be cool to use a disk cache
brycec: Oh btw, -L OPERATOR gives me "lan print" and sensor readings too.
<br> (I've always had ADMINISTRATOR before, never had to deal with lower permissions)
mercutio: oh interesting, i got readings with user fine though :)
brycec: How strange. My VPS on kvr19 is frozen. No crash, panic, still text on the "screen", but absolutely no response to input (no text appears when I type, no flashing cursor) *grumbles*
<br> (And once again< i didn't notice for 2 weeks because I don't have monitoring setup for it, and nobody noticed because it's low priority. lol)
mercutio: heh
<br> i'm still trying to figure out how my home box crashes something like that
<br> nothing in logs
<br> it may show a kernel message if i wasn't using X...
brycec: 'twas strange. Almost like the kvm process had hung, except vnc itself worked. And it's the second time that VPS has acted strangely screwy in the last two months.
mercutio: my arp vps crashed when i was doing cvs on it, but it's running openbsd snapshot
<br> i upgraded to a more recent snapshot.
<br> openbsd still gives high pings with virtio if you do heavy disk load
<br> so dunno if doing disk/network at once could make it more likely to crash
brycec: Good to know (though this is sans virtio - em and wd)
mercutio: wd?
<br> you mean sd right?
brycec: wd0 :)
mercutio: that seems strange
<br> my disks always show up as sd
<br> are you using ahci?
brycec: /dev/wd0a 224M 128M 84.2M 60% /
<br> wd0 is ide emulation IIRC
mercutio: i wonder if bios defaults to ..
brycec: (well, it's the IDE driver period)
mercutio: surely it doesn't?
brycec: wd0 at pciide0 channel 0 drive 0: <QEMU HARDDISK>
mercutio: is it really old openbsd version?
brycec: 5.6
mercutio: oh
<br> i was thinking your physical server.
brycec: Ohhhh, lol
mercutio: the disk virtio makes more diff than the network virtio iirc
brycec: my physical server currently sees sda :p
mercutio: yeah i dunno why i thought that
<br> do you run openbsd everywhere?
<br> /dev/sd0a 4.9G 4.5G 222M 95% /
<br> this is my arp vm
brycec: Everywhere that isn't a VM host, and one lone Debian box/VM
<br> (We're a hardcore OpenBSD shop)
mercutio: seems that way
<br> i was considering using openbsd more
<br> but i'm leaning more towards linux these days
mnathani_: ubuntu ?
<br> or arch
mercutio: ubuntu is the standard
<br> i use ubuntu for anything work related.
<br> and arch for personal related when i can
brycec: I'd like to use Linux a bit more (internally) specifically so I could use lightweight OpenVZ containers for some tasks where it doesn't make much sense to use a full OpenBSD VM/system, but it's a matter of pride and OpenSBD is still quite light.
mercutio: openbsd is amazingly light
<br> i forgot to set memory amount with kvm and it only had 128mb
<br> and i didn't even notice
brycec: You can run 64MB without issue
mercutio: i used to run 64mb
<br> when i first had a dedicated server.
<br> it used to swap a lot
<br> but it wasn't terrible.
<br> ubuntu on 256mb is worse
mnathani_: what kind of applications are you running with under 128mb of ram
brycec: I don't doubt that
mercutio: but 64mb had to include mutt, amavis, irc, etc.
brycec: amavis would've been "huge"
mercutio: <u>mnathani_</u>: i had a mail server etc with 64mb.
brycec: comparatively
mercutio: yeah i only ran one or two processes for it
mnathani_: was this a long time ago?
mercutio: it actually uses less memory on openbsd thanl inux
<br> <u>mnathani_</u>: yeh
<br> it was a pentium pro 200
-: brycec mulls running a DRBD volume at ARP and at the office
mnathani_: approx 20 years?
mercutio: haha
<br> nah less than that
<br> like 13 or 14 years ago?
mnathani_: still pretty long
brycec: twss
BryceBot: Okay! twss! 'still pretty long'
mercutio: yeah it's weird how little software has changed since then
<br> like i still use amavis, mutt, postfix, ..
<br> although i was using ircii-epic back then, and screen rather than tmux
brycec: So much truth there
mercutio: back then it seemed like there was so much new software coming out
<br> it was exciting times.
<br> like postfix was this new exciting promising mail server.
<br> but now postfix is just what other people seem to be running
<br> but given a choice between sendmail, qmail, exim, postfix
<br> postfix was the clear leader.
<br> so pf came with openbsd 3.0
<br> looks like postfix came out in dec 1998
BryceBot: That's what she said!!
brycec: <u>BryceBot</u>: no
BryceBot: Oh, okay... I'm sorry. 'looks like postfix came out in dec 1998'
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pyvpx: "hardcore openbsd shop" <--- that is awesome
mike-burns: I've been enjoying OpenBSD more and more. They have a refreshing attitude, especially when compared with GNU/Linux politics.
RandalSchwartz: I stopped using openbsd when I discovered how cool freebsd is :)
mike-burns: There is that.
m0unds: i just like bsds in general
ix33: openbsd makes me feel totes l33t
brycec: That vps on kvr19 I mentioned 8 hours ago? Already crashed!
<br> This time: kernel: protection fault trap
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mnathani_: <u>brycec</u>: does that imply something is wonky on the host config?
brycec: If it weren't a VPS, it would suggest the issue is rooted in hardware (cpu, ram, etc). Since it's a VPS, I'm not really sure.
<br> (I'll have to look into it later too)
m0unds: weird
mercutio: i stoped using freebsd when i got hdd corruption
m0unds: crashing would annoy me more than data corruption, since i keep backups
RandalSchwartz: I'm running zfs on root. corruption would get caught early
mercutio: well it was many years ago, and i haven't had any corruption when i've used freebsd for othe things since.
<br> but it's what got me into openbsd on the desktop, and it surprised me how well it worked.
<br> it was pre-sata, ide, and some ide controller issue.
<br> i haven't seen any checksum errors with zfs yet, and i've used it across multiple platforms, with multiple systems.
<br> i have seen read errors.
<br> for some reason i have noticed that openbsd on a crash does tend to want manual fsck often.
<br> never had any corruption, but it's a slight inconvenience.
brycec: Holy crap... that VPS is crashed *again*
mercutio: damn.
<br> no software upgrades right?
<br> maybe try emailing support@ ?
brycec: Nothing recent
<br> I remember there being *some* issue with high UDP load
<br> and kvm
<br> I think
<br> And this does serve DNS :/
mercutio: the vps's are rate limited to 5 megabit outbound by default.
<br> for anti ddos
brycec: No I mean there's a driver issue
mercutio: oh
<br> try shifting to virtio?
brycec: Would require moving hosts which is a chunk of up_the_irons' time
<br> But that was the solution when I ran into an issue on a Linux vps
<br> My current plan is just to get this VPS migrated on to my Metal box
<br> Then I have full control of both sides without inconveniencing up_the_irons
mercutio: oh he can't just enable it on your vm?
brycec: Asked about it before, this host hasn't been upgraded yet
mercutio: ahh
<br> maybe your host will go directly to trusty
brycec: My [new] host is going directly to Wheezy :P
<br> (referring to my Metal)
mercutio: heh
<br> i hate the debian names :)
<br> what's the new debian called?
<br> that comes out rsn
brycec: Aww but they're so much fun, and easier to remember than Ubuntu's
<br> Jessie
mercutio: lucid/precise/trusty seem like ok names to me.
brycec: There are so many Ubuntu releases, I can't recall all of their names :p
mercutio: wasn't a fan of names like etch, bo etc.
<br> not even the lts names?
brycec: lol bo, now that is oooold
<br> Not even.
mercutio: i dunno debian seems to have a lot of names to me, probably because i follow it less
<br> sarge, squeeze, whizzy, jessie, lenny, uhh
brycec: etch
<br> *wheezy
<br> And that's not exactly in order :p
mercutio: oh etch was debian not uubuntuu
<br> it was in order that it came to mind :)
<br> maybe not chronological
brycec: Anyhow, the point is that in the last 5 years, there's only 3 releases/names :P
<br> As opposed to Ubuntu...
mercutio: ubuntu has only had lucid, precise, trusty int he last 5 years.
brycec: (3 may not be exactly right)
mercutio: for lts versions.
brycec: heh well I'm counting more than LTS
mercutio: yeh that's the issue i think
brycec: I'm counting *every* release, same as I am for Debian :p
mercutio: januty, karmic, lucid, m something?
brycec: Maverick, Natty, Oneiric, Precise, Quantal, Raring, Saucy, Trusty, Utopic, and upcoming Vivid -- every Ubuntu release from 2010 on
mercutio: precise, quantal, raring, saucy, trusty, utopic, vivid
<br> curious i forgot all the names between lucid and precise.
brycec: I'd say the issue is that Debian only has LTS releases, keeping names few and simple and easy :P
<br> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ubuntu_releases
BryceBot: List of Ubuntu releases :: Ubuntu releases are made semiannually by Canonical Ltd, the developers of the Ubuntu operating system, using the year and month of the release as a version number. The first Ubuntu release, for example, was Ubuntu 4.10 and was released on 20 October 2004. Consequently, version numbers for future versions are provisional; if the release is delayed until a different month (or even year) to that planned, the version number
mercutio: they're all in alplhabetical order though.
brycec: Debian on the other hand: Squeeze, Wheezy, and soon Jessie
mercutio: so you just have to remember the letter really
<br> yeh no alphabet to guide :)
<br> so why not go to debian jessie?
brycec: because it's still "testing" and not "stable"
mercutio: i was just wondering about debian jessie yesterday.
<br> it comes out this month doesn't it?
brycec: 25th
mercutio: there should only be kernel changes before release?
<br> and it may just be cd's pressing etc anyway.
<br> i decided to not try jessy yet because it's systemd and it may have bugs/annoyances.
brycec: Yeah, relatively major changes for me. I also had some bad experiences installing Jessie which has scared me off for now.
mercutio: ahh ok
plett: Jessie works fine for me
mercutio: i'm using vivid on all of my personal ubuntu vps's
acf__: yea, I've been using jessie for a long time
mercutio: but none are important.
acf__: I didn't even notice when systemd arrived :P
mercutio: i found when upgrading to vivid it didn't shift to systemd properly.
<br> well systemd-analyse didn't work
<br> i think it was still booting with upstart.
m0unds: whizzy, lol
mercutio: well you don't have anything critical on it right? maybe you should try jessie :)
brycec: Who, me? Even if I don't have anything critical, it's still a production system and we have policies about running untested things in production.
mercutio: oh ok
acf__: I think I've seen a total of two breakages in jessie..
<br> one of them was chromium
mercutio: chromium leaks gpu memory for me
acf__: the other one happened because I didn't install systemd
<br> yea, chromium crashes one of my Intel GPUs actually
<br> any time I try to play a video, OpenGL breaks for the whole system
<br> that one is in software rendering mode :P
mercutio: i actually have found intel onboard video to work pretty well
staticsafe: i disabled GPU acceleration due to the memory leaks
brycec: My bad (and frustrating) experience with Jessie was due to a mismatch/breakage between installer kernel and what was in the repo, meaning I couldn't even install. And it stayed broken for at least a week before I gave up.
acf__: I think Intel is the only mainstream graphics card vendor to release open source drivers?
mercutio: was the repo not being updated properly?
<br> <u>acf</u>: yeah i think so
brycec: AMD is contributing to radeon
mercutio: i used to consider matrox to have good open source support.
<br> buut i don't think it was self-written.
<br> i find intel seems to have better performance than radeon for 2d.
<br> which is kind of disconcerting.
<br> on windows radeon does pretty well for 2d
acf__: I think the Linux radeon drivers began as a reverse engineering effort
brycec: <u>mercutio</u>: I have no idea what/why, only what caused the error messages that held me up.
acf__: <u>brycec</u>: I've always used jessie weekly ISOs for installing
<br> I haven't seen that problem, likely because I wasn't installing anything that week
brycec: Most likely :p
acf__: "Owners of AMD (previously ATI) video cards have a choice between AMD's proprietary driver (catalyst) and the open source driver (xf86-video-ati)."
<br> so AMD has been contributing to xf86-video-ati now?
brycec: Yes
<br> Directly
acf__: cool
brycec: http://cgit.freedesktop.org/~agd5f/linux/?h=drm-next-3.20-wip
<br> (not the best link, sorry)
mercutio: i had aan idea that amd was getting more involved in open source
<br> but from experience of amd on linux, it's ... not amazing
brycec: http://cgit.freedesktop.org/~agd5f/linux/log/drivers/gpu/drm/radeon?h=drm-next-3.20-wip&showmsg=1 Note the email addresses :p
acf__: I wonder if they're abandoning the proprietary driver then
brycec: Doesn't seem like it, not any time soon at least
mercutio: actually it seems to work better than it used to.
<br> but i had to shift to a fanless video card, as linux can't control fan speed.
brycec: Latest drivers/commits do
mercutio: and it runs hot because linuxu doesn't do proper power gating.
<br> <u>brycec</u>: yeah apparently it got better
<br> and my r9 290 isn't so bad.
<br> my 7850 on the other hand... is loud enough to drive me crazy
brycec: My 7870 is doing just fine
mercutio: well was, before i shifted...
<br> acutally i just uused it with windows, and didn't boot into linux much
<br> <u>brycec</u>: yeah, apparently it's been improved now
<br> but some cards were worse than others.
<br> r9 290 and 7850 were both sapphire, and r9 290 was better...
m0unds: if the card has sane onboard fan profiles it's not so bad
mercutio: <u>m0unds</u>: it doesn't use those
<br> if it boots loud it'll be loud
<br> well that's how it was.
m0unds: it sure does w/my sapphire card
<br> i rarely boot arch but i've never noticed fan speed being a thing
mercutio: it was about half of the amd cards being bad i think
up_the_irons: if anyone wants a r9 280x, i have a bunch of 'em from my mining days ;)
m0unds: lol
<br> space heaters for sale
up_the_irons: hahaha
mercutio: <u>up_the_irons</u>: r9 280xs are pretty good actually
up_the_irons: <u>mercutio</u>: i know i'm not offering crap ;)
mercutio: i only needed to get a r9 280x, but r9 290 hardly cost anymore.
<br> and future proof and all that.
<br> in linux i can't tell the difference betwen radeon 7750 and r9 290
brycec: lol up_the_irons
<br> I have a 290 (and this 7870) the same way - a buddy of mine used to mine and now has more video cards than he knows what to do with
mercutio: <u>brycec</u>: do you do 3d on the r9 290?
brycec: Yes (but it's my lady's and she games in windows)
mercutio: ahh ok
<br> the r9 290 is pretty amazing in windows
<br> mine is even quiet.
<br> i've been wondering if i should sell my 7850
<br> 7750 seems just as good for desktop use.
<br> without fan issues
<br> and i'm thinking the power draw on 7850 is probably insane.
brycec: 7870 is doing just fine on a 550W
<br> Doesn't seem bad at all
m0unds: it's like 20W diff bw the two
mercutio: <u>brycec</u>: i was more thinking idle power usage.
m0unds: probably close to the same, assuming power management is actually working
mercutio: apparently a lot of video cards use a lot more power with two monitors too
m0unds: yes, because you need higher memory clocks to drive two displays
<br> so it runs at 3d clocks w/3 displays vs downclocked w/1
mercutio: i think it clocks the memory high anyway
m0unds: err, 2
mercutio: how do i check memory clock in linux?
-: m0unds shrugs
brycec: catalyst drivers - ati-config, radeon - radeontop
mercutio: my r9 in windows is oscilating between 150 and 1300 mhz rapidly.
<br> radeontop wasn't showing it
m0unds: http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/graphics/2012/11/05/msi-radeon-hd-7850-1gb-review/8 there's a couple charts w/idle and load power comparisons
brycec: Hm I thought it did, but I seem to be mistaken.
mercutio: <u>m0unds</u>: that's windows, linux doesn't do proper power gating.
m0unds: then assume the load value?
<br> not a crazy assumption
mercutio: sudo cat /sys/kernel/debug/dri/0/radeon_pm_info
<br> ahh it is ruunning 150mhjz
<br> pci-e gen 3 though
<br> in windows it actually goes to earlier pci-e standard at idle
m0unds: that's probably dependent on the link speed power management setting
mercutio: oh maybe
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mercutio: so i thought i'd try linux on r9 290 again, and it seems it doesn't support 60 hz with 4k :(
<br> well it flickers all of the time.
<br> fortunately xrandr lets you set 30 hz easily.
m0unds: sweet
mercutio: i don't think it used to do that though
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