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| Who | What | When |
|---|---|---|
| *** | RandalSchwartz has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) | [01:07] |
| ................................................................................................................................................................. (idle for 13h21mn) | ||
| mnathani_ | @weather yyz | [14:28] |
| BryceBot | Toronto-Pearson International, Ontario: Mostly Cloudy ☁ 39°F (4°C), Humidity: 42%, Wind: From the West at 21 MPH Gusting to 28 MPH -- For more details including the forecast and almanac, see http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/getForecast?query=43.67722321,-79.63055420 or re-request this with: @weather -v yyz | [14:28] |
| .... (idle for 17mn) | ||
| mercutio | i thought winter would be over by now? | [14:45] |
| ...................................... (idle for 3h7mn) | ||
| mnathani_ | to run multicast over the internet, does traffic need to be encapsulated by a GRE Tunnel or similar? | [17:52] |
| mercutio | i think so
there were things like mbone before that you could be a part of, but i doubt that even exists anymore i really wish multicast took off more some tv stuff is using it but it's all in networks where people control the whole thing afaik | [17:52] |
| mnathani_ | over private links though
not across public internet | [17:53] |
| mercutio | yeh within their private network
i think usually people have a multicast streaming server that broadcasts across their network, and people opt-in/opt-out | [17:54] |
| staticsafe | IPTV stuff usually | [17:54] |
| BryceBot | That's what she said!! | [17:54] |
| mercutio | static: yeh
iptv is kind of the biggest use case for it | [17:55] |
| staticsafe | when I was in the UAE, the TV services was provided over a ethernet connection to the box, also FTTH
afaik the internet was still ADSL | [17:55] |
| mnathani_ | how fast was the connection? | [17:56] |
| staticsafe | the internet? 1mbit/1mbit, internet is still expensive over there | [17:56] |
| mercutio | static: they may be doing it bit by bit
1 megabit wow cloudflare had something on their blog about "shared dictionaries" for compression. google's been doing per-site dictionaries for ages. but the idea is that you have one dictionary with common html elements in it etc, and get much higher compression. i really reckon if people are going to have 1 megabit connections etc that kind of thing would really help. | [17:56] |
| staticsafe | well 1Mbps - http://www.etisalat.ae/en/personal/internet/services/broadband/internet-services-packages.jsp
259 United Arab Emirates Dirham equals 70.52 US Dollar | [17:58] |
| mnathani_ | wow unlimited transfer | [17:59] |
| staticsafe | so yeah | [17:59] |
| mercutio | yeah it's the wrong attitude
if you're going to cap people it's better to have download limits and higher speeds i wonder why speed is so limited from what i understand india is pretty bad for internet speeds, like worse than that. but uae is much richer than india | [17:59] |
| mnathani_ | do they still proxy all http / https traffic staticsafe
? | [18:00] |
| staticsafe | mnathani_: yeah, i was using a VPN while I was there | [18:00] |
| mercutio | i wonder where their traffic goes
is it via turkey? | [18:00] |
| mnathani_ | I had dialup while I lived there | [18:00] |
| staticsafe | France usually | [18:00] |
| BryceBot | That's what she said!! | [18:00] |
| mercutio | or via egypt | [18:01] |
| mnathani_ | but that was pre 2000 | [18:01] |
| staticsafe | Renesys has some slides on connectivity in the middle eawst | [18:01] |
| mnathani_ | interestingly enough they peer with ARP Networks | [18:01] |
| staticsafe | mnathani_: when I left the UAE I had dialup connectivity | [18:01] |
| mercutio | it has to get to france somehow :) | [18:01] |
| staticsafe | Etisalat was just starting their DSL rollout | [18:01] |
| mercutio | so you both used to live in uae? | [18:02] |
| mnathani_ | and have multi gigabit presense at AMS-IX
I grew up there | [18:02] |
| staticsafe | yeah born there, moved when I was about 13 | [18:02] |
| mercutio | mnathani_: were you born there? | [18:02] |
| mnathani_ | was not
born in Karachi, Pakistan | [18:02] |
| mercutio | did you two know each other while you were there? | [18:02] |
| mnathani_ | but moved there very shortly | [18:02] |
| staticsafe | nope | [18:02] |
| mercutio | just coincidental
it wasn't so rich when you lived there was it? | [18:03] |
| mnathani_ | felt richer than most parts of North America
brigher lighting at nights for the roads newer malls | [18:04] |
| mercutio | heh i only seen the US on tv | [18:04] |
| staticsafe | inequality is very evident though | [18:04] |
| mercutio | so it's hard to know what it's like to live there
but it seemed that california was reasonbly well to do and that a lot of the middle of the US wasn't so well off | [18:04] |
| staticsafe | example - unless you are of local descent, you can't get citizenship even if you were born there | [18:05] |
| mercutio | i just found out obama was from kenya
well his father was i'm surprised the US allowed him to be president | [18:05] |
| staticsafe | he was born in Hawaii
which makes him a US citizen | [18:06] |
| mercutio | yeah but his fatherw as from kenya?
or something. like it's "recent immigrant" | [18:06] |
| mike-burns | America's way of doing nationality (born there = American) is so very different from everywhere else in the world.
... it's one of the things I miss, as an expat. | [18:06] |
| staticsafe | its similar in Canada | [18:06] |
| mike-burns | Makes sense. | [18:07] |
| mercutio | i think it's similar here too | [18:07] |
| staticsafe | two ways to get citizenship in Canada - be born here or naturalization | [18:07] |
| mike-burns | But are you socially and colloquially considered Canadian, even as an immigrant (or child of an immigrant)? | [18:08] |
| staticsafe | yep | [18:08] |
| mike-burns | That's the thing I miss the most. | [18:08] |
| staticsafe | Canada is a nation of immigrants :P | [18:08] |
| mike-burns | It makes sense for N America, yeah. | [18:08] |
| mercutio | the whole world is full of immigrants
i don't think there's any country that doesn't have any :) | [18:09] |
| mike-burns | There are many that wishes they didn't ... | [18:09] |
| mercutio | i reckon it's weird how different different parts of the US sound.
although most americans i meet in real life have more accent than people on tv | [18:10] |
| staticsafe | i like Canada :) | [18:11] |
| mike-burns | I had to drop my accent when I moved from the US; too few people understood me. | [18:12] |
| mercutio | i can't even get a good idea of canada from tv :/ | [18:12] |
| staticsafe | heh | [18:12] |
| mercutio | mike: what part were you from? | [18:12] |
| mike-burns | Boston. | [18:12] |
| mercutio | yeah | [18:12] |
| mike-burns | Bawstun. | [18:12] |
| mercutio | california is easier to understand
i think because more tv comes from there? and fast talk speed with less uhh definition | [18:12] |
| staticsafe | Canada has a bit of an identity problem being so close to the US. which is why CRTC has stuff like % Canadian content rules | [18:13] |
| mike-burns | I recommend The Red Green Show. ... it's basically all I know about Canada.
Oh and Strange Brew. | [18:13] |
| mercutio | all i know about canada is it snows and they have bears
and it's like alaska | [18:14] |
| staticsafe | bears are a lot more up north :P
ain't gonna see bears in Toronto | [18:15] |
| mercutio | oh ok | [18:15] |
| mike-burns | Apparently Vancouver is one of the most well-designed, happiest cities. | [18:15] |
| staticsafe | mike-burns: expensive to live in though
its kinda has a SF like problem real estate is expensive | [18:15] |
| mercutio | all the most popular cities in the world are expensive to live in
there's a list somewhere | [18:16] |
| mike-burns | The SF problem is rather crazy and out of hand. Massive inequality there. | [18:16] |
| staticsafe | yeah i heard | [18:16] |
| mercutio | on this list my city is 10th | [18:16] |
| mike-burns | I saw some list with my city as 6th. | [18:16] |
| mercutio | vancouver is 3rd
calgary was 6th on this list | [18:17] |
| staticsafe | a lot of people buy houses in the suburbs nowadays cause its cheaper | [18:17] |
| mercutio | vienna, austria is 2nd
it's weird, all the roofs look identical static: my friend bought a house in santa clara and it didn't look as bad as i thought it was. | [18:17] |
| mike-burns | Do you have a link to this list? | [18:18] |
| mercutio | http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/property/pictures/9477990/The-worlds-10-best-cities-to-live-in.html?frame=2311068
there wer way too many australian cities i was actually surprised hwo cheap US was for housing compared to NZ.. | [18:18] |
| mike-burns | Huh; everyone I know who has lived in (or even visited) Auckland, NZ, has disliked it. | [18:19] |
| staticsafe | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Toronto_Area#/media/File:Greater_toronto_area_map.svg suburbs basically mean outside of the "City of Toronto" area | [18:19] |
| BryceBot | Greater Toronto Area :: The Greater Toronto Area (GTA) is a metropolitan area in Canada. At the 2011 census, it had a population of 6,054,191, and the census metropolitan area had a population of 5,583,064. The Greater Toronto Area is defined as the central city of Toronto, and the four regional municipalities that surround it: Durham, Halton, Peel, and York. The regional span of the Greater Toronto Area is sometimes extended to include the... | [18:19] |
| mercutio | like there are heaps of large houses for cheap | [18:19] |
| mike-burns | Yeah, the US is a cheap place overall. | [18:19] |
| mercutio | oh vancouver just hit a million average?
i suuppose that's quite expensive, but it's probably mean price when people say average they usually use mean, and a few expensive houses will lift the average. people used to measure house prices by how many years you'd need to work at an average pay. and that here has increased heaps. like it looked like in the US you could get houses for 10 years of work (of cousre you need to spend money to live etc) if you don't want to live somewhere expensive.. whereas here it's more like 20 years. and there's this big concern over people having long mortgages and wanting to buy houses when they're older, as they bump into retirement etc. like if you're 40 and want to take out a 30 year mortgage, the bank wouldn't really want to do that. and so the biggest risk is that house ownership goes down, and a few people own all the property and charge more and more money so vancouver agverage income seems to be at 71,140/year | [18:19] |
| mike-burns | Which currency? | [18:27] |
| mercutio | and average house prices were 1.4 million i think? so that's around 20 years.
it's .ca so i assume cad$ | [18:27] |
| mike-burns | Ah. | [18:27] |
| mercutio | it's 2012 too.
but you can't live on nothing | [18:28] |
| mike-burns | Depends on the social safety nets. | [18:28] |
| mercutio | and you pay a lot of interest on a 30 year mortgage.
here it's only $764,000 average house price. and that's nzd$ which is around $550,000 usd i think so it's around half the price for a house as vancouver. | [18:28] |
| mike-burns | Average income is weird, depending on the level of socialism. | [18:30] |
| mercutio | yeah
it's really hard to compare. like you pay high taxes here. | [18:30] |
| mike-burns | It's probably higher here. | [18:31] |
| mercutio | i think it's 38% above $48,000/year here | [18:31] |
| mike-burns | 55% here. | [18:31] |
| mercutio | plus gst of 15% on purchases.
oh tax rates went down | [18:31] |
| brycec | @exch 764000 NZD USD | [18:32] |
| BryceBot | 764000 NZD -> 579714.98358359 USD (as of Sat, 04 Apr 2015 18:01:01 -0700) | [18:32] |
| mercutio | 55% tax sounds crazy.
do you have taxes on petrol, alcohol etc.? | [18:34] |
| mike-burns | Crazy-high taxes on alcohol. | [18:35] |
| mercutio | i have no idea how much tax we pay on alcohol, but beer prices have been going up... | [18:36] |
| mike-burns | OTOH: free/paid university, great city planning, decent metro system, healthcare obviously, other good stuff I'm sure. | [18:36] |
| mercutio | 55% puts it in the region of norway, sweden etc doens't it? | [18:36] |
| mike-burns | You guessed it! I live in Sweden. | [18:37] |
| mercutio | ahh
i think norway is slightly higher | [18:37] |
| mike-burns | Yeah. | [18:37] |
| mercutio | i wouldn't mind living somewhere like sweden i reckon | [18:38] |
| mike-burns | It's a great place to live. | [18:38] |
| mercutio | it's not the easiest place to move to though | [18:38] |
| mike-burns | Easier than the US. | [18:39] |
| mercutio | so you can get visa's etc easy? | [18:39] |
| mike-burns | Well ... easier than a non-American getting a US visa. | [18:39] |
| mercutio | and get jobs knowing only english? | [18:39] |
| mike-burns | It took me six months, but part of that was because the country goes on vacation during June and July. | [18:40] |
| mercutio | my friend managed to get visa to the US reasonably eaisly. | [18:40] |
| mike-burns | Yup, just English is fine, especially in tech. | [18:40] |
| mercutio | well it seemed like he did
he just shifted countries within the same company | [18:40] |
| mike-burns | L1 visa, perhaps. | [18:40] |
| mercutio | i think that is easier :) | [18:40] |
| mike-burns | One of my employees just got into the US via L1 visa. Pain in the ass from the lawyer/management side, but more guaranteed than the normal ones. | [18:41] |
| mercutio | ahh ok
are places like sweden easy to get by with only knowing english? | [18:41] |
| mike-burns | http://si.wsj.net/public/resources/images/AI-CE671_CENGLI_G_20131106085709.jpg
Trivial. | [18:42] |
| mercutio | i kind of thought it'd be cool to live somewhere like argentina
but i don't know spanish i dunno how easy it'd be to get a job there. | [18:42] |
| mike-burns | Countries that speak Spanish, German, or French tend to keep speaking those languages.
But Swedish ... no one here really expects immigrants to speak anything but English. | [18:43] |
| mercutio | ahh, interesting.
IT is on the labour shortage list :) | [18:43] |
| mike-burns | We seriously need people with tech work experience here. | [18:45] |
| mercutio | seems surprising
i thought there were lots of tech type people there | [18:45] |
| mike-burns | Really great education system -> people go to school forever -> I interview 30-somethings with no work experience. | [18:45] |
| mercutio | ahh ok i have no education but work experience :/
how can you be 30-something with no work experience | [18:46] |
| mike-burns | Yeah, me too. | [18:46] |
| mercutio | that's shocking
mercutio is 30-something Citizens of non-EU countries must apply for a work permit in order to work in Sweden. In order to receive a work permit, you must have received an official offer of employment from a Swedish employer. so that's like the US isn't it? It is not possible to receive a work permit in order to come to Sweden to look for work. apparently if i was under 30 i could do working holiday there | [18:46] |
| mike-burns | Yes, but the US has quotas that are quickly filled. | [18:49] |
| mercutio | ahh | [18:49] |
| mike-burns | Also, it's really, really hard to get into the US without a degree. | [18:49] |
| mercutio | most jobs here are advertised that you need to have a visa before getting the job
ahh .net .net .net .. argh "Proficient in Swedish or willing to learn. | [18:50] |
| mike-burns | http://swedishstartupspace.com/job-board/ - any of these might be more fun. | [18:52] |
| mercutio | wow these job adverts look way better
and so casual | [18:53] |
| mike-burns | That job board is run by an Aussie expat. | [18:54] |
| mercutio | they're all in stockholm | [18:55] |
| mike-burns | Yup. | [18:55] |
| mercutio | so does he live there? and talk with them all? | [18:55] |
| mike-burns | Yes, and yes.
He runs a startup in Sthlm. | [18:55] |
| mercutio | so much talk of amazon :/ | [18:56] |
| mike-burns | Big American companies! | [18:56] |
| mercutio | i'm not actually finding anything i want to apply for :/ | [18:57] |
| mike-burns | Maybe it's not to be. | [18:57] |
| mercutio | tbh, i'd like to work at an isp or something in south america :) | [18:58] |
| mike-burns | Good luck. | [18:58] |
| mercutio | haha
yeah i know it'd be hard to do | [18:58] |
| mnathani_ | 500Mbps of download speed
- 50Mbps of upload speed - Unlimited data http://www.etisalat.ae/en/personal/elife/bundles/tripleplay-packages.jsp | [18:58] |
| mercutio | but i generally prefer improving things rather than doing new things. | [18:58] |
| mnathani_ | @wa 500 aed to cad | [18:59] |
| mercutio | not into mobile apps etc. | [18:59] |
| BryceBot | convert د.إ500 (UAE dirhams) to Canadian dollars;C$169.95 (Canadian dollars);$136.14 (US dollars) (at current quoted rate);, 1-year minimum->C$144.77 (July 2, 2014->9 months ago), 1-year maximum->C$174.24 (March 16, 2015->19 days ago), 1-year average->C$155.17 (annualized volatility: 6.3%) | [18:59] |
| mnathani_ | @wa 5000 aed to cad | [18:59] |
| BryceBot | convert د.إ5000 (UAE dirhams) to Canadian dollars;C$1699.55 (Canadian dollars);$1361.38 (US dollars) (at current quoted rate);, 1-year minimum->C$1447.69 (July 2, 2014->9 months ago), 1-year maximum->C$1742.35 (March 16, 2015->19 days ago), 1-year average->C$1551.74 (annualized volatility: 6.3%) | [18:59] |
| mercutio | mnathani_: that sounds better. | [19:00] |
| mnathani_ | expensive though | [19:01] |
| mercutio | yeah
but it's only twice as expensive as 1 megabit isnt' it? | [19:01] |
| mnathani_ | the 500 was a type
s/type/typo | [19:01] |
| BryceBot | <mnathani_> the 500 was a typo | [19:01] |
| mercutio | oh it's 5000? | [19:01] |
| mnathani_ | it is actually 5000 AED
yea | [19:01] |
| mercutio | ouch | [19:01] |
| mnathani_ | thats more than my rent in Canada | [19:02] |
| mercutio | only for oil barons? | [19:02] |
| mnathani_ | those guys probably get a massive discount too | [19:03] |
| mercutio | hangon mike-burns if you're in sweden, isnt' it the middle of the night? | [19:03] |
| mnathani_ | sometimes I wonder about you: mercutio, you are in here at all sorts of hours | [19:03] |
| mercutio | mnathani_: haha
i was in here at 4 am the other day | [19:03] |
| mike-burns | Yeah, it's 4am. | [19:03] |
| mercutio | but i'm not normally. | [19:03] |
| mike-burns | Hackers gotta hack. | [19:03] |
| mnathani_ | perhaps mercutiois more than one person sharing the handle | [19:03] |
| mercutio | mnathani_: it's 2 pm here right now | [19:04] |
| mnathani_ | that a sane hour | [19:04] |
| mercutio | although we just changed back to standard time from daylight saving today.
so it feels like 3pm | [19:04] |
| m0unds | amazon's hiring process for AWS is pretty fun | [19:12] |
| mercutio | what do they do? | [19:12] |
| m0unds | their work/life balance is awful though | [19:12] |
| mercutio | my work/life balance is terrible
i think it's pretty common with IT | [19:12] |
| m0unds | based on guys i know who interviewed for stuff w/aws in the us - they do phone interviews, then fly you to seattle and put you up in a hotel and then do a campus tour and really involved engineering interviews
amazon is nextlevel bad 7 day work weeks, often 60-80hrs, etc | [19:13] |
| mercutio | oh
that sucks. i'm a fan of the 35 hour working week. | [19:14] |
| m0unds | good employer, cool tech, cool gig, great pay and benefits, but the hours are sort of bad | [19:14] |
| mercutio | i reckon people are less productive if they work too many hours. | [19:14] |
| m0unds | both guys declined their respective offers (one was AWS engineering, can't remember what my other buddy interviewed for)
used it as a learning experience because the last interview had lots of really technically involved stuff that sort of showed them what they need to work on and now, planetside time | [19:14] |
| mercutio | i think a lot of those places go for qualifications over experience
and so they end up with a lot of people with bright ideas, with less grounding. | [19:19] |
| ............ (idle for 59mn) | ||
| m0unds | some do, can say based on amazon that they're more interested in people w/experience + people who actually understand what they're doing | [20:18] |
| mercutio | oh that's good | [20:19] |
| m0unds | i've gotten lots of contract stuff based on businesses who hired solely based on education or certs and not experience
not to say there's anythign wrong with either of those things, but it shouldn't be the only reason for hiring someone unless you're going to help them out | [20:20] |
| mercutio | contract stuff here has a high word-of-mouth factor
actually IT in general does. | [20:22] |
| m0unds | yeah, same here | [20:22] |
| mercutio | well i don't think it does in more corporate/government areas. | [20:22] |
| m0unds | depends | [20:23] |
| mercutio | ahh ok | [20:23] |
| m0unds | i've done contract network stuff for several bigger companies (2000+ employees) and tribal government | [20:23] |
| mercutio | but for the kind of jobs mike-burns listed high word of mouth | [20:23] |
| m0unds | lots of defense related contract work here in abq too, because NM has 2 national nuclear labs and 3 airforce bases | [20:23] |
| mercutio | so you've got security clearance? | [20:24] |
| m0unds | not anymore | [20:24] |
| mercutio | but you had to get it? | [20:24] |
| m0unds | yep, contractor sponsored it | [20:24] |
| mercutio | cool. | [20:24] |
| m0unds | contract ended, didn't have any additional stuff lined up so it expired | [20:25] |
| ....................... (idle for 1h51mn) | ||
| brycec | A buddy of mine works at Amazon - they tend to expect you available 7 days a week, regardless of vacation, etc. Granted, that will vary by team.
(I should clarify, works in AWS) | [22:16] |
| mercutio | available as in "ready to work" or "to respond to cellphone" | [22:21] |
| brycec | The latter
I know this because we were vacationing together, out of the country, but he was still expected to be available for phone and fixing things (computer+internet) Which is a huge drag on things like marriage and family | [22:24] |
| mercutio | yeah
it's pretty common in smaller companies/businesses but aws should be big enough that they can get past that | [22:26] |
| brycec | heh exactly | [22:27] |
| m0unds | yea, that sort of availability/expectation is absolutely a drag (part of why i left the job i used to work) | [22:28] |
| mercutio | i don't mind it myself
most of the time. it sucks when things break a lot, but as long as you can make things break less .. | [22:30] |
| brycec | Even so, there are instances out of your hands, eg. the boss saying "Blah, make such-and-such feature by Friday!" | [22:33] |
| mercutio | brycec: that's also not necessarily good :) | [22:34] |
| .... (idle for 16mn) | ||
| brycec: actually i've found people vary in their willingness to work extra hours whether or not their boss says to
some people will just set boundaries more often older poeple with families etc. | [22:50] | |
| brycec | And the elasticity of the workplace varies too - some won't tolerate that :P (not a comment on AWS, because I don't know) | [22:51] |
| mercutio | depends if it's all of the time etc too | [22:53] |
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