[09:47] *** cloudkitsch has joined #arpnetworks [09:48] *** cloudkitsch is now known as erratic [09:48] *** erratic is now known as Guest94263 [10:15] *** Guest94263 has quit IRC (Read error: No route to host) [16:30] who's in charge of billing? or is that not done hete? [16:31] contact support@arpnetworks.com [16:31] k ty [16:33] mercutio, everything wireless hetr almost always uses 2.4 .. coordless, wireless kb/mice, some wifi, bt and some hdmi wifi is 2.4 but mostly 5ghz [16:36] it was just dect phones that i wasn't sure of [16:36] wireless speakers, kb, mice, bluetooth etc are all 2.4 :( [16:36] i would post ubi spec analasys but its a little sesnitive [16:37] dect here uses 2.4 [16:38] mine does but thankfully a low channel away from wifi prinary [16:38] its bt that savages me [16:38] there is a lot of that in these flats ands its weird [16:46] weird [16:47] i thought bt was short range [16:49] i have upto 100m stuff, small apartment, sound throughout mostly via bt .. it hits 2.4 rotten, use the phone too whist torrenting for ex.... u get the pictute [16:57] i want to do multiroom audio, but i dunno how to sync it [16:57] i figure if i used wireless latency can vary? [16:57] and i don't know how much it matters. [16:59] i mostly just want to extend music into kitchen [17:37] there is so much layer 2 / 3 geekery talk in here, i love it [17:38] someone in here's gonna invent a new protocol [17:43] ha i thought with that discussion that this was the #lopsa channel [18:00] * up_the_irons checks out the #lopsa channel [18:02] i've been trying to figure out this damn complicated netfilter mess [18:02] it's insane now days [18:03] with pf you can just pass "no state" [18:04] with iptables if you want to remote state it's /way/ more complex [18:26] unloading nf_conntrack usually works [18:26] That's what she said!! [18:26] :P [18:26] its ugly but it works [18:31] until you need it static :) [18:31] it's when you want to combine connection tracking and non connection tracking that it gets complicated. [18:34] it's with tproxy i found i needed connection tracking [19:00] *** lily has joined #arpnetworks [19:00] hello [19:18] hi [20:50] *** lily has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) [21:03] *** starlily has joined #arpnetworks [21:03] *** starlily is now known as lily [21:15] should I be concerned if my VPS is using 181megs of swap space [21:15] even though +/- buffers has 1960 free [21:16] yes you should be [21:17] linux overswaps :/ [21:17] freebsd can swap quite a bit if it runs out of memory [21:17] uhh what's with ntt's reverse dns? [21:18] http://pastebin.com/cSBrFB3q [21:19] you can tune swap usage with sysctl vm.swappiness on linux [21:21] i dont think freebsd lets you tune though [21:22] with freebsd if you're swapping that much i'd say that you don't have enough memory, or should reduce your memory footprint [21:22] with linux i'd say vm.swappiness liek mjp said :) [21:22] there's been a growing trend these days to not even have swap [21:25] no swap is a pretty bad idea imo [21:26] why's that? [21:27] i think level3 is having congestion again [21:27] because it will cause things to break/crash if ram usage gets to 100% [21:28] ram usage should never be anywhere near 100% these days [21:28] and lots of things break when swapping [21:28] but it does happen, especially when you use VMs and only allocate 1G/2G for 'average' sort of hosts [21:28] like if you're serving web pages, with mysql+apache, and you start swapping the performance is so bad it'll spawn more processes [21:28] and use more and more ram [21:28] and so the swap just "delays" time to killing process. [21:29] i think in a way there should be better memory controls to stop things getting out of hand. [21:29] but atm a lot of people have more ram than they need most of the time [21:29] we usually set swap at 1GB or 2GB per host regardless of actual RAM size and set nagios to alert us if the box starts swapping [21:30] there's always that compressed swap thing [21:30] compressed ram as swap [21:30] you could alert on low buffers/cache as well i suppose [21:31] but yeah i suppose it's easy [21:31] * mercutio has no swap on his personal desktop [21:31] depends if you would rather recover from a crash or tune a slow host heh [21:31] i haven't seen hard-crashes relating to swap or lack of swap [21:31] i just see things like mysql getting killed [21:31] yeah oomkiller [21:32] which is essentially a mysql crash from its perspective [21:32] yeah [21:32] i dunno, overprovisioning memory is much more common than it used to be [21:32] whats a good way to tell whats using the swap [21:32] mnathani_: rss being low normally [21:33] err res [21:33] top? heh [21:33] but it's hard to know what's low :) [21:33] there's also paging out of executable [21:34] like executables are demand-loaded, and it can free the executable pages and demand load them back in [21:34] which is essentially like swapping except without the extra write [21:34] and on some systems like freebsd it can write to swap without actually using the ram it's created [21:34] so that there's more ram available "if needed" and it doesn't have to wait for it to swap it out. [21:35] yep [21:35] RES PID USER PR NI SHR S %CPU %MEM TIME+ TIME COMMAND [21:35] 65m 10526 mnathani 20 0 2292 S 0.7 2.7 2201:50 36,41 weechat-curses [21:36] i dont think the way freebsd uses swap [21:36] *dont like [21:36] i used to use this tol that told you how much library space etc everything used. [21:37] swapoff -a && swapon -a will fix it though [21:37] 65mb seems heaps [21:37] not a good solution [21:37] i can't remember the name of it, but often in times gone past it was huge libraries being used that used up lots of memory [21:37] so i compiled things without the huge libraries etc. [21:37] but that was when i had 24mb of ram.. [21:38] weechat can restore state [21:38] so you can save state and restart it [21:38] also if you upgrade libraries on a running system then old programs will use the old version, and new programs the new version [21:38] so it has to store two copies in memory [21:39] how much ram does your vps have? [21:39] why would you ever want to save the state of a chat client? [21:39] my weechat is only using 24mb [21:39] mjp: so that you have all your windows etc from last time [21:40] wouldnt that be in the config? [21:40] is it? [21:40] it's not in mine i think [21:40] some of my windows are in the config [21:40] when i fire up irssi it connects to all my irc servers and auto-joins my channels [21:40] a lot of it would not be [21:40] otherwise it runs inside of screen [21:40] my irssi never did that [21:40] its been a while since weechat was launched [21:40] and my weechat doesn't afaik [21:41] i've hardly started weechat [21:41] i've used it quite a lot :) [21:41] why does weechat have kerebos support? [21:41] kerberos. [21:42] and ssh support [21:42] i don't even know what libhogweed is [21:43] but if you want to be anal about memory usage, you can probably reduce memory usage by compiling without lots of these modules [21:44] although ime a lot of the worst offenders are things like perl programs. [21:45] apparently weechat older versions have some memory leaks [21:45] so restarting it may improve memory usage. [21:47] I am hesitant to restart my weechat [21:47] might not come back the way it goes down [21:47] hogweed - low-level crypto library [21:47] my weechat isn't linked against ssh [21:47] I am behind on a lot of scrollback [21:47] and kerberos is linked-against by way of other libs [21:47] i have 29 libraries linked [21:47] (weechat itself isn't linked against kerberos) [21:48] how can you tell if it's direct or through other links? [21:48] (oh I do see libssh2 there) [21:48] erk it's using libgnutls [21:49] mercutio: ldd -v $(which weechat) [21:49] the -v will break it all down [21:49] it's using both libssl and gnutls [21:49] isn't that license violation? [21:59] hmm i have no idea about this license stuff [21:59] it's too confusing. [22:01] i seem to remember openssh was removing the need for libressl though, so maybe there's some more minimal base that'll get improved? [22:11] hmm without libssl openssh doesn't like my key [22:42] Implementing Dual-Stack with no strategy to move to Single-Stack IPv6 will end up [22:42] costing your organization more in the long term. [22:42] ^ Is that true? [22:53] it sounds like an open ended question [23:01] should that be the eventual goal? moving to ipv6 only networking? [23:12] nope [23:12] not to my mind :) [23:14] so, ipv4 will probably not be decomissioned in our lifetimes [23:15] well ethernet still exists.