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RandalSchwartz: ahh, can't run xen on freebsd
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mercutio: <u>randal</u>: you can't run the base vm on xen, but you can run subsequent ones.
RandalSchwartz: I guess I don't understand that yet.
<br> xen isn't like virtualbox?
mercutio: the first dom0 is sepcial in that it by default provides the network/disk for vm's.
brycec: xen is not like virtualbox
<br> xen is like vmware esx
mercutio: apparently it can actually pass that stuff onto to other vm's.
<br> <u>brycec</u>: it's not quite like either of them really.
<br> well it's more like esxi.
brycec: Yeah, ther's a term for it, I can't seem to recall
<br> something about layers
mercutio: so you have a hypervisor that runs a series of virtual machines, but the first one gets "direct" access.
<br> and it then has a memory window or such to pass data to other virtual machines for disk/network.
brycec: Ah here we go https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypervisor
mercutio: i wonder if i'm making it sound more complicated.
BryceBot: Hypervisor :: A hypervisor or virtual machine monitor (VMM) is a piece of computer software, firmware or hardware that creates and runs virtual machines. A computer on which a hypervisor is running one or more virtual machines is defined as a host machine. Each virtual machine is called a guest machine. The hypervisor presents the guest operating systems with a virtual operating platform and manages the execution of the guest operating...
brycec: Yeah, dom0 is technically a vm but it's treated special. It's similar, but not identical to the way esx works with having a base OS+Hypervisor
mercutio: <u>brycec</u>: well esxi runs linux ..
<br> you can actually get a linux shell
-: brycec knwos
mercutio: so it may actually be quite similar, i haven't really looked uunder the hood much
<br> it has very limited drivers unlike linux
<br> you can't even do software raid with esxi (grr)
brycec: For the sake of simplicity and explaining things to RandalSchwartz...
mercutio: so if you want a test server it's kind of annoying.
<br> <u>brycec</u>: true.
<br> ok yeah, it's like sxi :)
<br> esxi
ant: <u>btw</u>: vmware is currently getting sued for violating the gpl in esxi
mercutio: you can actually host a virtual machine inside esxi that provides storage to esxi.
<br> <u>ant</u>: makes sense.
brycec: virtualception
mercutio: people were doing solaris/opensolaris/etc with zfs inside a virtual machine, then doing nfs from that for the esxi data store.
RandalSchwartz: so I could run xen on my freebsd box, and use linux for the first vm, and freebsd for the other ones?
mercutio: using vt-d to pass through a scsi controller generally, but i don't think that part is /necessary/ it just improves performance.
brycec: Probably. (I don't know much about FreeBSD Xen compatibility)
mercutio: <u>randal</u>: yeah, but you'd do a linuux install, then a xen install, then rnu a freebsd vm.
brycec: (I guess so https://wiki.freebsd.org/FreeBSD/Xen)
mercutio: tbh i don't relaly think for most people xen is any better than kvm.
-: brycec dislikes Xen
brycec: Much happier with KVM and the ilk, they don't require any guest customisations
mercutio: it wsa better on older hardware as it had paravirtal vm's. but modern cpus have really accelerated extensions for normal vm's.
<br> and now it's faster to have non paravirtualised.
brycec: If I can't run MSDOS as a virtual machine, what use is it? :P
mercutio: vmware took out it's paravirtal functionality.
<br> i think in esxi 5
<br> xen now has paravirtual, hvm, and a hybrid.
<br> hvm is full virtualisation like kvm.
<br> the only real advantage i find with xen is it makes it easy for me to host kernels outside the virtual environment and boot specific kernels.
grody: oh wow that was not worth it
brycec: twss
BryceBot: Okay! twss! 'oh wow that was not worth it'
mercutio: there's also better support for video/pci device passthrough.
grody: i actually went win 2k8 with hyperv 2012 and it makes xen super user friendly
mercutio: but kvm is working to improve their stuuff, and it's mostly because xen forked qemu. but they're going back to non forked.
<br> so if you want to do video passthrough on xen, at least before, it worked better to use the "legacy" qemu option.
grody: video passthrough on this lenovo in xen was fun
mercutio: by better i mean "it worked" rather than "it failed".
brycec: The way I see it, at least in my workloads, there are two types of useful virtualisation: full machine a la KVM, or containerised a la OpenVZ. Everything else outside that scope is just more complicated than it's worth.
<br> heh
mercutio: <u>brycec</u>: i actually like xen
grody: windows hyperv is fast, but i am seriously disliking it
<br> freebsd guests are still faster in xen tho
mercutio: <u>grody</u>: were you doing paravirtual or full virtual for xen in freebsd?
grody: even more so when you PV fbsd
mercutio: i've tried freebsd with xen and vmware
<br> xen has this annoying problem with mtu's above 1.5k
grody: firstly hvm then pv
mercutio: <u>grody</u>: you should hvm.
<br> it actually works better.
<br> the pvhvm thing should be better still
grody: not hit that yet, doung pfsense with tagged vlans in xen and it seems fine
mercutio: but yeah, there's a hvm kernel config.
<br> <u>grody</u>: this was real larger mtu's
<br> maybe vlan doesn't add enough
grody: ah
mercutio: there's a hard coded limit in some driver.
<br> it's fixable
grody: yea im still legacy 10/100 here
mercutio: i still couldn't do over 2k
<br> but slightly larger worked.
<br> it always erks me when i seem to hit lots of "weird" problems, and other people don't.
grody: haha and you google high and low only to find your question asked but never answered
mercutio: <u>grody</u>: that's what i say haha
<br> <u>grody</u>: and then ytou find out it's been happening for years.
<br> i remember when i heard about the windows uptime bug
<br> it crashed after 48 days of uptime or something with a wrap around.
<br> i'd never hit that buug :/
<br> (i did use that dirty windows for a bit)
grody: xen 4.1 says my mobo doesnt do iommu, but 4.5 is ok with it, couldnt find that one anywhere
<br> i went evil buying a new tablet
<br> i got the linx8 win8.1 .. now running arch
mercutio: <u>grody</u>: it's probably because new motherboard and old scipset.
<br> also 5520 is blackedlisted.
grody: getting a vkeyboard up was fun, had to ssh most of it
mercutio: err blacklisted.
<br> and so vt-d is strictly possible, but things disable it
<br> not that you're using that chipset
grody: mercutio, no idea it is a pain of a lappy
<br> lenovo s205
<br> uefi is skiwiff too
mercutio: i was doing vt-d on z77 for my gpu pass through
<br> not all motherboards supported it.
<br> oh amd
<br> you like amd don't you grody :)
grody: wel for a fraction of pruce to get eq.
<br> its the pepsi of cpus
mercutio: i have ex-lease laptop, it was old when i got it
<br> and a chromebook
<br> i am thinking of sticking that special boot thing on it
<br> linuxbios?
<br> err coreboot it seems now
<br> it has the google one, but if it runs low on battery then it reverts to only booting chromeos.
<br> and it's booting in legacy mode and you have to press ctrl-l as you boot
<br> i kind of wish coreboot was used more by now. i kind of hoped it'd take off. it is interesting that google are using it though
<br> uefi isn't really that wonderful.
BryceBot: That's what she said!!
mercutio: and it's huge and complicated.
<br> really the boot loader should just be doing the init system, then providing resources to the initial os.
<br> err hardware init
<br> i'm ok with things like a little gui to overclock, and update bios from the gui etc.
<br> but in the normal course of boot it should juust do the minimum, and not have a hugely massive api
<br> http://www.uefi.org/sites/default/files/resources/2_4_Errata_B.pdf
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grody: that was fun
mercutio: what was?
brycec: This turned out to be pretty entertaining http://www.therestartpage.com/
<br> (click things, move windows, fiddlw with stuff. It's interactive.)
RandalSchwartz: heh... that's cute
<br> I'm booting openstep
<br> Steve's Soul powers these machines. :)
grody: ok i hate windows hyperv
<br> im going back to debian xen
<br> it lags like hell running freebsd guests
<br> linux is fast as hell mind
mercutio: network lag?
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mercutio: is anyone else seeing ping spikes to 4.2.2.2 but fine to 4.2.2.1. i assume 4.2.2.2 is probably getting ddos'ed or something, it's just curious and my usual "test ip"
brycec: I don't monitor it... But I'm not surprised
<br> 4.2.2.2 is the ip "everybody" knows and hits
<br> 4.2.2.1 is far less-known
acf_: <u>mercutio</u>: 4.2.2.2 has always had terrible ping latencies for me
<br> http://kremvax.acfsys.net/smokeping.cgi?target=Remote.l3dns
mercutio: <u>acf</u>: it's been mostly fine for me before
<br> i don't monitor to it i just check internet stuff with it at the time
<br> wow it's really bad for you since like the end of june
<br> but before that it was fine
<br> is that on a vm?
acf_: no, that's ARP Metal
mercutio: interesting
acf_: yea, it's super strange
mercutio: i was just lookig athe localhost ping time
<br> i suppose it's pretty stable, it jut seems high
<br> mine sits around 10u on an i3-2100
acf_: http://paste.unixcube.org/k/479429
mercutio: yeah i'd already tried from arp native
<br> well vm on arp
acf_: yea, it's not going through anything strange afiact
mercutio: but i did manage to test from one location that seemed better
<br> it was better when it hit san jose 4.2.2.2 rather than los angeles 4.2.2.2
acf_: ah right, that's anycast
mercutio: yeah, but los angeles seems worse than san jose
<br> like way worse
acf_: maybe I should start monitoring 4.2.2.1
mercutio: i haven't got historic data, and you do :)
<br> i wondered if it was some new ddos or something
<br> i had weird slow gtt behave earlier today
<br> then i saw someone reporting about gtt issues on outages
acf_: is *that* what that was
mercutio: oh you noticed weird gtt shit?
<br> it was pretty chronically bad.
acf_: I didn't have much time to debug at the time
<br> but something was clearly not right
mercutio: i still don't know who gtt is compromised of properly.
<br> but their network seems a badly managed hodge podge atm
<br> i think it's gtt, tinet, nlayer, mzima, and someone else
acf_: something like that
<br> I guess gtt just bought everyone up
mercutio: what
acf_: and didn't really try to integrate anything
mercutio: try goign to www.gtt.net
acf_: umm
mercutio: it's not loading, and saying "checking your browser before accessing gtt.net"
acf_: yea
mercutio: and to allow up to 5 seconds
<br> it's been way more than 5 seconds.
acf_: appears to be some Cloudflare anti-ddos thing
mercutio: yeah
<br> so gtt had massive ddos attacks today i imagine
<br> i thought gtt were bigger than cloudflare
<br> it's kind of scary when gtt are doing anti-ddos protection with cloudflare and their main web site doesn't even work
acf_: I think cloudflare are super experts at anti-DDOS though
mercutio: what's that web host tracker thingy
acf_: for HTTP anyway
mercutio: the one that usedd to say about apache vs iis
acf_: netcraft?
mercutio: that's it
<br> oh www.gtt.net loads now
acf_: it did for me, after > 5 seconds :P
mercutio: http://toolbar.netcraft.com/site_report?url=http://www.gtt.net
<br> so it looks like it was self hosted 5th feb 2015
acf_: huh yea
<br> just clicked refresh there
BryceBot: That's what she said!!
acf_: then the CloudFlare one showed up
mercutio: it only recently changed from windows to linux too
<br> https://www.staminus.net/gtt-stops-offering-flowspec-what-this-means-to-ddos/
<br> cloudflare use ntt
<br> at least what i've noticed for communication to origin web sites