[03:50] still need to get around to setting a new vps to run pfsense on, use as a virtual firewall to others [06:33] *** medum has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) [07:24] *** abthorpet has quit IRC (*.net *.split) [07:24] *** SpaceDump has quit IRC (*.net *.split) [07:24] *** neish has quit IRC (*.net *.split) [07:24] *** mike-burns has quit IRC (*.net *.split) [07:24] *** tooth has quit IRC (*.net *.split) [07:24] *** raptelan has quit IRC (*.net *.split) [07:24] *** d^_^b has quit IRC (*.net *.split) [07:24] *** dne has quit IRC (*.net *.split) [07:24] *** hazardous has quit IRC (*.net *.split) [07:24] *** up_the_irons has quit IRC (*.net *.split) [07:24] *** ant has quit IRC (*.net *.split) [07:25] *** d^_^b has joined #arpnetworks [07:25] *** d^_^b has quit IRC (Changing host) [07:25] *** d^_^b has joined #arpnetworks [07:25] *** raptelan_ has joined #arpnetworks [07:25] *** SpaceDump has joined #arpnetworks [07:25] *** tabthorpe has joined #arpnetworks [07:25] *** neish has joined #arpnetworks [07:25] *** dne has joined #arpnetworks [07:25] *** up_the_irons has joined #arpnetworks [07:25] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o up_the_irons [07:25] *** tooth has joined #arpnetworks [07:25] *** hazardous has joined #arpnetworks [07:25] *** mike-burns has joined #arpnetworks [07:25] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mike-burns [07:25] *** ant has joined #arpnetworks [08:04] *** _Zodiac has joined #arpnetworks [08:05] *** _Zodiac has left [08:52] grody: i'm building stuff on 10.1 as we speak, and it seems to have pretty normal i/o perf for me (w/virtio) [08:55] *** joepie91 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) [08:55] *** joepie91- has joined #arpnetworks [09:07] m0unds, aye.. now i enabled virtio at boot, the io is considerably better [09:07] so used to 8.4, it was "as is, or not at all" [09:08] to be honest, the difference was only noticeable when doing a portsnap extract [09:11] and it was only barely noticable [09:13] i am loving ezjails though [09:13] my last jail scenario was scarey [09:14] still want a small pfsense VPS and i see an ideal one for $10 [09:15] grody: gotcha [09:16] sorry, i babble a lot :D [09:28] saddened i lost a 267 day uptime though, was my most reliable MTA/Webserver - hoping my new design will be just as [09:28] got a real good route from the UK to ARP [10:29] *** awyeah has quit IRC (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in) [10:29] *** awyeah has joined #arpnetworks [11:36] nothign wrong with losing uptime to do upates :/ [11:52] *** neish has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [11:52] *** twobithacker has quit IRC (Read error: Network is unreachable) [11:54] *** gizmoguy has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) [11:54] *** Hien_ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) [11:54] *** up_the_irons has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) [11:54] *** dne has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) [11:54] *** plett has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) [11:54] *** jpalmer has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) [11:54] *** gizmoguy has joined #arpnetworks [11:55] *** Hien has joined #arpnetworks [11:55] *** plett has joined #arpnetworks [11:57] *** twobithacker has joined #arpnetworks [11:57] *** up_the_irons has joined #arpnetworks [11:57] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o up_the_irons [11:58] *** jpalmer has joined #arpnetworks [11:58] *** dne has joined #arpnetworks [11:58] *** neish has joined #arpnetworks [12:01] *** mkb has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) [13:02] mercutio, indeed.. went from 8.2 when i first got the VPS, upgraded through the years and only lost uptime because of [13:03] now going 10 with a new deploy strategy, the idea is again very few outages [13:04] once or twice a year (i did replace the server with temps until i get this back) so overall downtime to service has been 0 [13:05] plus my script works much better with pkg, so i dont have to fubar things with portupgrade anymore [13:06] being overly optimistic, i may never need to shell in again [13:09] i mean, im not one for cheese, but from AAISP when i was ping monitoring my servers, when i had 100% uptime on my link, i had 100% connectivity to my ARP [13:10] shame UK VPS providers cant offer anything as good :/ [13:10] (unless you pay WAY over the odds) [13:24] yeah arp is pretty stable. [13:24] i've hit a few network outages over the years, but none of them have lasted very long. [13:25] the most recent was coresite having issues. [13:47] never noticed any, even munin running on the VPS hasn't shown obvious signs of outage [13:48] quite impressed with latency from UK to LA though (if that is where the VPS is) [13:48] rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 174.954/178.944/181.934/1.732 ms on ipv4 & rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 165.530/168.279/177.425/3.382 ms on IPv6 [14:09] uk latency can vary a bit [14:09] that seems on the high side to me, but maybe you're on adsl/vdsl with interleaving or such [14:16] vDSL, stock 8ms bs due to PPP [14:16] considering it's to the other side of the US, i say thats pretty impressive [14:17] i am loaded a little @home atm actually, so not a fair test [14:17] http://imgur.com/DsVeCtH [14:21] *** jcv has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) [14:21] 8msec in each direciton? [14:21] plus transit to somewhere useful? [14:21] i get 9ms to 8.8.8.8 [14:21] oh [14:21] that's not much interleaving thnen [14:22] no interleaving on this line [14:22] no need [14:22] that is hard to read :) [14:22] im < 100m from the cabinet [14:22] i'm more than that from cabinet with vdsl and i get about 5 msec first hop [14:22] i synch at 79.9 and 19.9 im that close [14:22] wow :) [14:22] they cap it at 10 megabit upload here :( [14:23] and i'm only on like 36/18 [14:23] well 18 is attainable [14:23] yea they have two types here [14:23] 40/10 default, 80/20 is usually business [14:23] vdsl is a lot better than adsl though [14:23] i have 80/20 plus priority in the network [14:23] there was a shift from atm to ptm at the same time. [14:23] hell yea [14:23] which has much lower overhead. [14:23] in theory vdsl3 can do 150mbit/s, but i only read a rumour, nothing solid [14:24] in theory vdsl can do gigabit :/ [14:24] my ISP can offer GEA via FTTC (vDSL) which loses the latency from PPPoE [14:24] it's crazy how much faster wifi is getting [14:24] i'm getting over 500 megabit on 802.11ac [14:24] but makes routing IP blocks (esp IPv6) difficult [14:24] same room, but still.. [14:24] useful for site-to-site of the same cab tho [14:25] yea, a/c is sickening [14:25] pppoe is very low overhead. [14:25] it's an 8 byte header tag. [14:25] i can only manage about 97mbit/s on 2.4 [14:25] ah, i have a router with minijumbo on the PPPoE [14:25] i can do faster than that on 2.4 i think [14:25] 1508 payload, service supports it [14:25] so get full 1500 [14:25] but 2.4 gets random outages here. [14:25] i have no idea what it is [14:26] a lot of wifis on 2.4 here [14:26] but it happened at my last house too, so i want to blame my car. [14:26] 5 there is only 2 [14:26] on 5 i can hit 300mbit [14:26] by outage i mean short breaks in connectivity without losing sync or whatever you call it [14:26] thats maxing out my fastest client [14:26] but enough to be annoying if you use skype or anyhting [14:26] are you using 802.11ac? [14:27] i have an ac [14:27] but only two clients using it [14:27] most are an [14:27] yeah [14:27] my laptop does about the same speed as my tablet [14:27] laptop is 433 megabit 802.11ac, laptop is 300 megabit i think [14:27] they both do about 250 megabit [14:28] my midrange phone does the best on N [14:28] 2.4 [14:28] but the cool thing is, my tablet still manages to do 100 megabit on the other side of the house [14:28] can hit 70mbit [14:28] even though in the same room 2.4 has dead spots in the room corners. [14:28] but if the neighbours are on the wifi, 2.4 is useless [14:28] it varies heaps by device though [14:28] my phone can do 32 megabit fine. [14:28] trying to force everything to 5 [14:29] well from everything i heard about 5 ghz before using it, it was only meant to be for "short" range. [14:29] my AP has been up 177 days, with my laptop on 'an' connect for 168 days [14:29] but even with lower signal levels it's way more stable and consistent [14:29] thats how blissful 5GHz is [14:29] and i think people over dramaticised that. [14:30] 2.4 has better permiation through matter [14:30] cos at range you're more likely to be closer to neighbours too [14:30] 5 is relatively short ranged [14:30] although a/c is impressive over distance [14:30] hmm [14:30] they'll both do km's i thought [14:31] line of site, easily [14:31] 5 ghz can do like 10km can't it? [14:31] but if there are buildings or walls in the way, 5GHz fails [14:31] but if there are trees it's fine? [14:31] lower frequencies penetrate matter better [14:31] even trees [14:31] you really don't weant to do 2.4 ghz through buildings though! [14:31] microwaves bounce off everything [14:32] you, me, glass [14:32] yeah i understand that 5 ghz bounces al ove rthe place [14:32] even 2.4 [14:32] and no-one knows how to model it properly yet [14:32] so it's really hard to take routers in a building [14:32] and say this is what coverage is going to be like [14:32] microwave ovens reap havock on some wifis [14:33] thats why they put 4G/LTE on like 600-800MHz [14:33] lte is higher than that here [14:33] i thnk it's 900 mhz [14:33] also uses 900, 1200 too [14:33] lte is amazing [14:33] That's what she said!! [14:33] lol [14:33] google maps is fast [14:33] i was hittiing 56/7 on 4g the other day [14:34] i was aweing like a kid in a candy shop [14:34] pings were amazing too, 30ms [14:34] That's what she said!! [14:34] so the bot is triggered by.. [14:34] amazing [14:34] That's what she said!! [14:35] yep [14:36] is MTU generally the max size of a frame or packet? [14:37] depends on the L2 type used [14:37] ethernet, frame size [14:37] ATM, cell size [14:38] a packet usually has a prefixed length, carrying the header and payload.. they can vary in size depending on the medium used to transport it [14:38] right. [14:38] usually ethernet uses 1500 MTU, though in a gigabit network payloads of 9000 are often used [14:39] add VLAN tags, you incrase the payload/header [14:39] use tunnels like L2TP/OVPN, to keep the standard 1500, the initial medium needs to accommodate higher MTUs [14:41] like my using PPPoE, usually you have to clamp to 1492, but ISP, medium & my router supports rfc4638, which allows me to use an MTU of 1508, so my actual IP packets can be sent in 1500 payloads w/o fragmenting/mss-clamping [14:42] does IPv6 change things quite a bit? [14:42] not allowing fragmenting etc [14:42] IPv6 header is larger, so payload is smaller [14:43] but even at 1500, it's a whole packet, just a smaller body [14:44] but by the time IPv6 becomes mainstream, 1500 MTU will be like dialup 576 (poor analagy, sorry) [14:46] im not an engineer, im a tinkerer, so dont take my word on it ;P [14:46] nothing wrong with tinkering :-) [14:48] grody: i've never done a speed test, but the "feeling" is good on it [14:49] diffences are unoticable unless you're obsessive [14:49] im just happy it works [14:49] grody: 1500 mtu isn't going to increase on the itnernet it seems :( [14:49] nah not in general [14:49] grody: it's night and day difference ehre [14:49] that said, i used a different provider that had the faster hsdpa [14:49] dual carrier? [14:49] i'm not sure it was, but in between. [14:50] but a couple of dedis at sites peer directly with one another and with a nice email, they let you increase MTU to use tunneling protocols between them [14:50] lte on my provider changes pings from like 80 msec to 20msec. [14:50] oh you mean the mtu difference is unnoticable, yes. [14:50] network mtus are going over 9k a little bit now [14:51] so you can actually do 9k site to site over mpls etc now days. [14:51] LTE here yields about 30ms, thats what i saw it at on a random test.. for on my phone in a pub as i stopped off from a meeting that was impressive [14:51] considering the pub wifi was 80ms and like 6/0.3 [14:51] i've never used good public wifi [14:51] the best wifi i used was like 2/10 [14:52] so i assuem they had a symmetric connection, and people were using the down more. [14:52] HSPA+ (DC) i yield about 17/2 and 90ms [14:52] it was about 50 msec for me grody. [14:52] with a usb stick. [14:52] the only good network in the UK for data is H3G [14:52] i used my provider ina different city, and it was on hspa+ though [14:53] i semeed to get much worse battery life in that other city. [14:53] does hspa+ use a lot of battery? [14:53] i don't get 4g at home here, but there's a bit of coverage. and wifi is fast at home :) [14:53] EE and voda have a superior 4G network, but 3 have the best data service overall (and their 4G (where available) is highly impressive, better then EE and Vodafone) [14:53] lte has been here only a year or less i think [14:54] but all the providers seemed to hop on at once. [14:54] it's also the only UK network that allows RAW IP [14:54] all the others limit to TCP/UDP/ICMP [14:54] oh [14:54] so 6in4 tunnels are possible, also GRE and what not [14:54] sweet., [14:54] i only care that google maps is fast :) [14:54] haha [14:55] well i mean i care a little bit [14:55] i prefer rawness [14:55] barebones or not at all [14:56] i pay stupid amounts for internet @home and out and about just so i can do all the crazy nerdy stuff when i want to be a crazy nerd [14:56] why i ♥ ARP, it's what i love, but over the pond [14:56] i think they should get some servers out in EU [14:56] :D [14:57] sounds nice [14:57] hint hint, nudge nudge, digestive digestive [14:57] what are some applications of using RAW IP? [14:57] i think practically speaking east coast is easier than EU [14:57] mnathani_: he was just saying... GRE... [14:57] mnathani_, simply 6in4 mainly [14:57] ok [14:57] GRE, GIF, IPIP. [14:57] where native IPv6 isnt available, tunnel it over IPv4 [14:57] you can cat /etc/protocols [14:58] the other way is using L2TP [14:58] which is UDP [14:58] l2tp is huge overhead. [14:58] well l2tp v2 [14:58] l2tpv3 is being slow to take off [14:58] i dunno [14:58] it's used by some ISP's here [14:59] it'll come [14:59] mpls is getting very popular. [14:59] i've used it, but w/o the hardware to utilize it properly, it was needless for me [14:59] http://grody.me.uk/blog/tech/openwrt/mpra1 [14:59] dont mean to spam [15:00] but thats an example of RAW IP on 3G networks [15:03] I didnt see a picture of the device [15:03] I see what you mean about the RAW IP now [15:03] on the openwrt site [15:03] there are a variety of these [15:04] even seem some with 8MB flash and 64MB RAM, so would be even more useful [15:05] with having a /48 allocated by ARP too, and eventually get a pfsense running on here in front of my current, i could use some IPv6 off here just to impress [15:05] ideally i want all my pfsense box to be in links, and be able to utilize IP addresses more efficiently [15:07] ie: my box @home flaps, openwrt detects this, uses next available tunnel [15:07] you can use ip addresses better as /32s than /29s etc. [15:07] ipv4 utilisation is a pita [15:08] it is [15:08] im trying to minimize IPv4 usage and even trying 6to4 [15:08] i wouldn't be surprised if arp shifts to /31s soon. [15:08] im not doing well.... [15:09] 6to4 can be highly useful [15:09] i just hope they don't up prices for small blocks :D [15:10] its ideal having a few for when you run https sites [15:10] and the prices of those licences that handle multiple domains off one IP are just shocking [15:10] certificates* [15:12] * brycec recommends that users of pfSense consider its more-open, both politically and in source, fork opnsense [15:13] im confused... [15:13] what d'ya mean? [15:14] brycec: is it a fork? [15:14] mercutio: yes [15:14] is it based on openbsd? [15:14] and what's wrong with pfSense? [15:14] freebsd [15:14] admn [15:14] it;s m0n0wall derived [15:14] pfsense works great [15:14] i found pfsense not too bad [15:15] mercutio: No, alas. But maybe someday (though it's headed by a couple of DragonFly BSD devs, so...) [15:15] i really hate openwrt [15:15] i use it @home and in a DC for small blade [15:15] I love pfSense, and use it everywhere. [15:15] it pains me greatly. [15:15] mercutio, it is annoying [15:15] what pains me even more is i really can't find any good alternatives. [15:15] i only use it for the minijumbos on PPPoE [15:15] else it;s a dumb router into pfsense [15:15] i'm using it for wireless bridging [15:15] so yeah it's a dumb wireless bridge [15:16] But I'm not a fan of where the project leadership is slowly creeping, not to mention one of them I find personally repulsive. [15:16] i use ddwrt for wifi and a ubi [15:16] i was using gargoyle [15:16] but it doesn't seem to work well on archer c7 :( [15:16] i didn't realise how muuch nicer gargoyle was than openwrt :) [15:16] https://wiki.opnsense.org/index.php/OPNsense:So_why_did_we_fork%3F is worth a read [15:16] i kind of took it for granted. [15:17] brycec: did you see openbsd are adding network smp support?> [15:17] not something i've heard of... [15:17] mercutio: I did, yes. [15:17] so yeah that's the main advantage of freebsd over openbsd for firewals... [15:18] brycec, interesting.. [15:19] I'm not preaching opnsense yet or anything, I'm not even using it (only tinkering with). But I want to spread the word [15:19] how many speedtest.net sites do you guys have in your cities? [15:19] (I definitely /want/ to use it, just haven't had the time) [15:19] it seems there are /six/ here [15:19] indeed, not im curious and want to tinker [15:19] especially if the captive potal element works [15:19] f**king hate pfSenses method [15:20] and that doesn't count the ookla ones not on speedtest.net [15:20] and i cant say that any more politer, sorry [15:20] mercutio: I have 1 speedtest.net location in my metro area. [15:20] there used to be like 3 [15:21] there's like two circles for my city on top of each other [15:21] one of them has 1 speed test, the other has 5.. [15:21] so i assume there's a limit of 5. [15:21] and other regions don't seem to have more than 5 [15:22] You may be right, or it may just be geography with the second circle being listed in a suburb of the other [15:23] oh los angeles has the same thing [15:23] with 5+1 [15:23] And Miami [15:23] I've been looking around the US, can't find anywhere with more than 5 on 1 dot [15:23] brycec: where is pfSense leadership creeping? [15:23] and the second one is glovine [15:23] which is the same thing that's on auckland [15:23] yeah los angeles has 5.. [15:23] JC_Denton: locking it down and closing it off. Not in a "closed source" kind of way, but licensing-wise. [15:23] who the hell are glovine [15:24] is miami's 6th golvine? [15:24] ah [15:24] well, they want to make money [15:24] it's tough for small FOSS projects to do that [15:24] It would be nice to see code cleanup/improvement [15:24] oh miami only has 5? [15:24] code cleanup is always nice, buut tends to get deprioritised until necessary [15:25] as backwards as pfsense can be, i much prefer them to junipers [15:25] I've felt that development on pfSense has languished for awhile. Bug fixes seem to take forever to be committed when it's a simple two-line fix. [15:25] Oh and when they pulled the build tools, ooooh that pissed off a lot of people. [15:25] fair that a new dual core w/ 8GB RAM wasn't a fair compromise for an IDP-10, but still [15:25] it was cheaper [15:25] why dual core? [15:25] it;s development side has slopped [15:26] it was an OpenVPN server [15:26] it seems you may as well go quad core these days [15:26] meh [15:26] well i suppose i3's are cheap and take ecc [15:26] and otheriwse you have to jump to e3 [15:27] im deferring to an arm project atm [15:27] i just got an amd cpu, .. it's really fast at aes, faster than my i7 [15:27] but most things are really slow on it [15:27] a small array of pogo EO2's, load-balanced by a pfsense :P [15:28] ~50 microsecnd network latency at least. [15:28] the joys of realtek not supporting colaescing on linux [15:28] my @home pfsense is a VIA Nehmiah with ancient Padlock aes-ni [15:28] yeww [15:28] i try to avoid rtl [15:28] got intel and via's in the @home [15:28] i have an intel card i can stick in it [15:28] intel ct [15:29] poor little thing can handle about 300mbit/s before it starst throwing a paddy [15:29] but it doesn't have enogh pci-e slots to stick a multiport card in [15:29] cripes, this thing is ancient [15:29] i could get > 100 megabit out of a pentium 75 [15:29] i'm surprised you're struggling with 300 megabit [15:29] 800Mhz to handle an 80/20 WAN, plus a couple of wifi's and some tunnels [15:29] That's what she said!! [15:30] haha [15:30] via's memory bandwidth really sucks doesn't it [15:30] enable coalescing on transmit [15:30] it copes for the most part [15:30] have high transmit queue size. [15:30] and do moderate coalescing on receive [15:30] it does IO up on net io [15:31] well actually if you have 80/20 net [15:31] even with the intels onboards helping [15:31] then 300 megabit is fine. [15:31] the new intel g cpus are pretty amazing btw [15:31] if you wnat something cheap [15:31] also j1900 are really cheap too [15:31] wan, two wifi's, VLANs (with an IGMP proxy) and goodness knows what else [15:31] and fanless. [15:31] OpenVPN too [15:32] are you using wifi cards on it? [15:32] it never gets hotters than 50C [15:32] my i7 keeps hitting 80c :( [15:32] nah, seperate wifi AP in domain [15:32] with VLANs for each VAP [15:33] that gets fun routing between when using internet [15:33] thats when it starts loading [15:33] layer3 switch :) [15:33] have made some rules stateless, pure routed [15:33] yea, i do need one [15:34] but yeah j1900 or g series cpu are pretty cheap [15:34] but even routing it puts a load up [15:34] g doesn't do aes though [15:34] butr it'll still do aes really fast anyway :/ [15:34] yeah you can fiddle with coalescing [15:34] it can make quite a significant cpu difference [15:34] i probably could route between the wifies on the actual AP [15:34] the newer intel cards are better htan the old ones too. [15:34] but i prefer the filtering offered by pfsense [15:35] yea they are [15:35] it's a em though i imagine? [15:35] original dual port was hell maxing out the WAB [15:35] this new one seems to only take 20% CPU saturating WAN [15:35] fxp [15:35] you can adjust em's with sysctl dev.e.m.0 [15:36] say what?! [15:36] stick a gigabit card in it :) [15:36] err, original fxp, new is em [15:36] hah [15:36] oh [15:36] it has a single PCI port [15:36] yeah em's are the older ones. [15:36] it's proper old skewl [15:36] pci-e? [15:36] x4? [15:36] Neoware CA10 [15:37] bah [15:37] just stick j1900 in instead :/ [15:37] it says running power use of 28 to 35 watts [15:38] compared to a PC... [15:38] yeah j1900s are good [15:38] http://www.techspot.com/review/806-amd-kabini-vs-intel-bay-trail-d/page8.html [15:38] i am actually impressed by this thing [15:38]