#arpnetworks 2015-02-17,Tue

brycec

I see it more like "which web browsers is better" since we're comparing clients

mnathani_

Brycebot: which do you prefer?

mercutio

mnathani_

@google fastmail or thunderbird

BryceBot

3,370 total results returned for 'fastmail or thunderbird', here's 3
How to set up Thunderbird | FastMail (https://www.fastmail.com/help/clients/thunderbird.html) The instructions and screenshots in this setup guide are for the latest version of Thunderbird, which you can download for free for Windows, Mac OS X or Linux.
Fastmail's sent folder doesn't appear on IMAP | Thunderbird Support ... (https://support.mozilla.org/questions/1017517) Aug 29, 2014 ... Hi, I've just setup Thunderbird to connect to Fastmail using IMAP. The inbox synchronizes, but TB doesn't recognize Fastmail's sent folder.
Using FastMail: A Primer - Tuts+ Computer Skills Tutorial (http://computers.tutsplus.com/tutorials/using-fastmail-a-primer--cms-21064) May 19, 2014 ... Fastmail with Thunderbird Setting up FastMail on your PC. Click Done when you' re finished., and Thunderbird will fetch your mail for you.

mnathani_

silly me
I messed up the terms

mercutio

you mean operamail or thunderbird right

mnathani_

@google operamail vs thunderbird

BryceBot

Searching for 'opera mail vs thunderbird' instead.
24,500 total results returned for 'opera mail vs thunderbird', here's 3
Thunderbird vs Opera Mail - Email Clients Comparison (http://email-clients.softwareinsider.com/compare/2-9/Thunderbird-vs-Opera-Mail) Compare Email Clients: Thunderbird vs Opera Mail. In this side by side comparison, find features which are most important for you to make the best decision.
Outlook Alternatives: 5 Other Mail Management Options (https://blog.udemy.com/outlook-alternatives/) Feb 11, 2014 ... Thunderbird is a somewhat stripped down version of Outlook, but it can ... You can even send e-cards on special occasions, like Christmas or ... If you're looking for a simple email client, then Opera Mail might be right for you.
Opera Mail review: Email client is a blast from the past | Macworld (http://www.macworld.com/article/2064515/opera-mail-review-email-client-is-a-blast-from-the-past.html) Nov 22, 2013 ... Opera Mail reminds me of Mozilla's open-source Thunderbird—with a ... Modern email clients often make importing or creating accounts a snap ...

brycec

lol mnathani_
Why not Evolution? Or balsa? Or _____...?

mercutio

mutt!
mutt supports imap.
and it works with vim, too.

[19:01]

mnathani_

I ride the short bus

brycec

lol

mnathani_

that is windows

brycec

So why not Outlook? Or whatever Mail client is builtin?

mercutio

outlook express?

mnathani_

Outlook is a resource hog

brycec

I think it changed though

mnathani_

but works well with Exchange

mercutio

ram is cheap

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-ca/windows-8/mail-app-tutorial

mnathani_

I think they have some mail app built in too

[19:03]

mercutio: I am running an i7 Windows system with 24 gigs of RAM

[19:16]

mercutio

and still running out of ram?
i've been running out of ram with 16gb recently actually

[19:16]

mnathani_

CPU is more precious than RAM
can't tolerate Outlook taking up a lot of CPU cycles constantly

[19:16]

mercutio

oh i didn't know it'd use lots of cpu
is this outlook or outlook express?

[19:17]

mnathani_

memory is at 48% usage
Outlook 2014
s/2014/2013

[19:17]

BryceBot

<mnathani_> Outlook 2013

[19:18]

mnathani_

Outlook Express is not an option with Windows 8
the Windows 8 equivalent to a free mail app is one of their metro style apps
ie: not a desktop application, more like a tablet one

[19:18]

mercutio

oh i didn't realise that was all you could do
actually i seem to remember it changed to windows live mail?
which tried to download msn
so i must be a bit out of date

[19:24]

mnathani_

[19:27]

mhoran

300ms latency to my VPS via v6, ouch.
Others seeing terrible v6 performance?

[19:27]

brycec

Negatory

mhoran

Seems to originate at lax2.he.net

mnathani_

mhoran: my v6 tunnel is down

brycec

brycec doesn't route via lax2.he.net anyways

mercutio

probably semi-related

mhoran

lax1.he.net seems fine.
Something in that DC it seems.

[19:29]

mercutio

wow
tracing to www.he.net gives 145 msec pings
oh it went down to 10 msec

[19:29]

mhoran

Yikes.
Yeah it's all over the place but averaging super high for me.

[19:29]

mercutio

yeah need to check form womehwere else really
but it looks like he.net lax to fremotn is screwed from trace from arp
and it's fine from my dallas ipv6 connected test host
but it's going over gtt/ntt
oh but www.he.net is screwed from my dallas test host.

[19:30]

mnathani_

mercutio: do you know of any decent east coast vps with v6 providers?

[19:32]

mercutio

mnathani_: nope
my test host is vultr :/
but it's far from decent
ipv6 isn't even working in the uk location for some unknown reason
and they're doing silly things like having a huge broadcast network
err broadcast domain
16:33:06.618406 ARP, Request who-has 104.156.237.150 tell 104.156.237.1, length 46
16:33:06.618703 ARP, Request who-has 104.156.237.151 tell 104.156.237.1, length 46
16:33:06.618964 ARP, Request who-has 104.156.237.153 tell 104.156.237.1, length 46
so there's all this crap coming through constantly

[19:32]

mhoran

yikes.

[19:34]

mercutio

i don't know a lot about east coast stuff
considering it's even further away from me. but from what i do know, it seems virgnia and atlanta seem like popular spots
new york seems expensive, florida is kind of bad routing wise.
but there seem to be more options with chicago, dallas, if you want to get in between
but yeah i'm over 10,000 miles away i think
ok 10,000 km from los angeles
there was talking of arp doing an east coast location, i'd hav emore faith in that

[19:35]

mhoran

I'd love an East coast location.
NYC preferably. :)

[19:47]

mercutio

i think nyc colo space is expensive
you may be able to get NJ ..

[19:48]

mhoran

Yeah. One of the major DCs is just Google now. There may still be a few colos in there but they (Google) took over a former employer's rack so they could build an elevator.
I'm sure there's space in Brooklyn, and there's space in Newark.
Both pretty decent. Perhaps Newark more so.
And by rack, I mean cage.

[19:49]

mercutio

can anyone remember where the arp east coast location was to be?
i expect there's quite a lot of work involved in setting up a new location though
as well as money.

[19:50]

coresite have data centers in north virginia, new york, and boston
http://www.thewhir.com/web-hosting-news/coresite-reality-acquires-new-jersey-building-to-convert-into-data-center

[20:02]

mhoran

I worked with coresite in Boston. They've a nice datacenter.
But I have no idea where the proposed location was.

[20:08]

mercutio

there may not have been a location in mind

[20:09]

mhoran

Though I tried to convince up_the_irons multiple times that NYC was a good option. :)

[20:09]

mercutio

and that you'd do remote hands?

[20:09]

mhoran

Absolutely!

[20:10]

mercutio

what'd he say?
it seems he was considering NY, VA, FL?

[20:10]

RandalSchwartz

PR would be good. :)

[20:12]

mercutio

where is PR?
oh
puerto rico?

[20:12]

mhoran

Yeah I'd totally do remote hands for PR. :p
I've even got a plane to get me there!

[20:13]

mercutio

well chat logs did say he'd like to do it somewhere he wouldn't mind visiting for a few days.

[20:13]

mhoran

mercutio: Logs show we left it at 'ah cool'. Then started talking about my exciting new job.
Whew, that was a while ago!
Wasn't even using weechat yet.

[20:14]

mercutio

mhoran: heh.

mhoran

Still the irssi days.

mercutio

well iw as finding stuff from 2013.

mhoran

Ah this is even older. So maybe he's gotten more thoughts on that.

mercutio

now if he'll come in :)

mhoran

I do miss spending time in the datacenter. But I also like programming as my day job.

mercutio

i hate datacenters myself.

BryceBot

That's what she said!!

mercutio

but if things are setup right you shouldn't have to spend much time in there.

mhoran

It's true.
I don't mean remote hands so much as getting things set up and such.
It's fun.
I agree that regularly spending time in the DC is probably not a good sign.

[20:18]

mercutio

what's not so fun is having to go to data centres in peak traffic.

mhoran

Well, that's not so bad in NYC. :)

RandalSchwartz

peak internet, or physical? :)

mhoran

But I agree.

mercutio

ahh.
randal: physical

mhoran

The Coresite location in Boston could be a pain to get to.
It wasn't even In Boston. Charlestown.
There was a subway and you could walk a mile and a half or take a crappy bus that usually didn't show up on time.

mercutio

lots of data centers are a bit further out to save money.

[20:20]

mhoran

There is a data center in downtown Boston that's quite nice, but it is extremely overpriced and they are very greedy.
I would imagine much of NYC is the same.

[20:20]

mercutio

well i think you generally pay like 25% more for central
or even more
and convenience isn't necesasrily better if you don't live centrally

[20:21]

mhoran

Well there is lots of competition here.

[20:21]

mercutio

that doesn't bring real estate prices down
i think dallas was cheap because of power too.

[20:23]

mhoran

Power is cheaper here than Boston, actually.

[20:24]

mercutio

you have cheaper power than we have here

[20:24]

mhoran

Though they are proposing a rate hike for next year.

[20:24]

mercutio

chicago is cheap for power
http://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/epm_table_grapher.cfm?t=epmt_5_6_a

[20:25]

mhoran

Chicago is pretty all right.
But I need to live on a coast.
And I hate the west coast.
So NYC it is.

[20:25]

mercutio

why not florida?
when i was looking at where i'd want to live if i lived in US i was thinking like tampa or something

[20:25]

mhoran

Florida is terrible. Unelss you're retired.

brycec

Because we can all agree that Florida is a terrible place to live.

mercutio

what's terrible about it?

mhoran

I don't like one season all the time (hence my hatred of SF.)

mercutio

it rains though?
so it's not as bad :)

mhoran

But also, it's filled with transients, or old people, is boring, is just humid all the time, and nobody actually wants to visit you.

mercutio

what about seattle?

brycec

Honestly, I'd take Phoenix (Arizona, desert) over Florida any day.

mhoran

I've never been, but I'd like to go.
They've a lot of float planes there, I like that.

mercutio

it's kind of weird seeing how dry most of the US looks.

[20:28]

brycec

Seattle is interesting

[20:28]

mercutio

even when water is in the picture it still looks dry.
and i found california seemed to look disturbingly pristine.
in an artifical way.
it's hard to find out what somewhere is like on the internet though

[20:28]

brycec

Google Streetview, Reddit, Wikitravel...
(and more)

[20:29]

mercutio

i'd rather travel sometime :)

[20:29]

brycec

When feasible, absolutely. And the above resources (among others) help plan that too

mercutio

if i went to the US i would have to go to california

mhoran

re: disturbingly pristine, I would not say that about San Francisco!

mercutio

cos all the flights go through there anyway.
mhoran: my friend lives in santa clara.
which is probably on the worse side of that.
houses are even more expensive than here it seems!

brycec

Santa Clara aint too bad...

[20:31]

mercutio

yeah he can cycle to work apparently
apparentyl residential internet sucks there though
choice between comcast, and at&t. and comcast has congestion.

[20:31]

brycec

s/there/in the US/

BryceBot

<mercutio> apparentyl residential internet sucks in the US though

mercutio

oh that's normal is it ?

brycec

Yes

mercutio

it always surprises me when people live in "internet cities" and have bad internet
well tech cities
it really shouldn't surprise me, it seems pretty common.

brycec

For starters, tech cities were built before tech was tech

[20:34]

mercutio

and they usually have money so people don't want to dig up the roads.
apparently people are much less keen to dig up roads in richer areas.
but that's also partially to do with apparently poorer people spend more on cable tv.
it is kind of amusing when you see that countries like bulgaria have fast cheap internet

[20:34]

brycec

It can also be argued that those countries didn't start until later, so they started with better "tech"

mercutio

10 euro to nzd
oh oops
how do i tell brycebot to do it again?

brycec

@exch 10 EUR NZD

BryceBot

10 EUR -> 11.404758293255 USD -> 15.131468351225 NZD (as of Tue, 17 Feb 2015 20:01:01 -0800)

mercutio

yeah so that's how much cable internet costs apparently.

brycec

daily?

mercutio

monthly
in bulgaria.

brycec

brycec doesn't believe it.

BryceBot

That's what she said!!

brycec

@exch 70 USD NZD

BryceBot

70 USD -> 92.87376 NZD (as of Tue, 17 Feb 2015 20:01:01 -0800)

brycec

I pay that monthly for ~120mbps

mercutio

@exch 7.95 leva nzd

BryceBot

mercutio, I'm sorry, I couldn't make sense of your query. Usage Examples: 900 USD to SEK, 1500 CAD to AUD

brycec

Which frankly is significantly improved over years past.

mercutio

@exch 7.95 bgn nzd

BryceBot

7.95 BGN -> 4.6334287605957 USD -> 6.147485009838 NZD (as of Tue, 17 Feb 2015 20:01:01 -0800)

staticsafe

@exch 1 CAD USD

[20:41]

BryceBot

1 CAD -> 0.80653226612984 USD (as of Tue, 17 Feb 2015 20:01:01 -0800)

[20:41]

staticsafe

ugh still quite bad

[20:41]

mercutio

http://www.mtel.bg/promocionalna-oferta-fix-internet
chrome's translate is necessary

[20:43]

mnathani_

not if you earn in USD but spend in CAD
@exch 1 USD CAD

[20:43]

BryceBot

1 USD -> 1.239876 CAD (as of Tue, 17 Feb 2015 20:01:01 -0800)

mercutio

so it's $6.14 for 2 years.
anot much more for 50 megabit
but quite a bit more for 100
@exch 18.45 bgn to nzd

BryceBot

18.45 BGN -> 10.753051651948 USD -> 14.266804834152 NZD (as of Tue, 17 Feb 2015 20:01:01 -0800)

mercutio

well that's 100 megabit pricing.
@exch 1 nzd to usd

BryceBot

1 NZD -> 0.75371127431473 USD (as of Tue, 17 Feb 2015 20:01:01 -0800)

mercutio

this has been going up and down recently.
BryceBot: 120 megabit, nice :)

[20:45]

mnathani_

huh?

[20:46]

mercutio

brycec: do you get 120 megabit regularly?
i tab complted. :)

[20:46]

brycec

mercutio: It's what Comcast offers here.
http://www.comcast.com/internet-service.html

[20:46]

mercutio

yeh it's not that cheap here
$30 for up to 25 megabit?
that sounds good

[20:47]

brycec

25mbps isn't listed on that Comcast page, not for me anyways

[20:47]

mercutio

105 megabit for $45?
weird

brycec

That's promo pricing

BryceBot

That's what she said!!

brycec

$79/mo normally
i.e. scroll down

mercutio

i see $78.95/mo for 105 megabit
so you're on 105 megabit?

[20:49]

brycec

Yes
And as is often the case, I get speeds a bit better than that.

[20:49]

mercutio

but it is rate limited to like 120?
i see.
what upload speed?

[20:49]

brycec

Hard to say. That's just the speed my laptop got on speedtest
mercutio: http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/4064904065
(I'd provide an updated test, but I'm connected through a 100mbps link at the moment)

[20:50]

mercutio

do you have that burst thing enabled?

[20:52]

brycec

I have no idea what you're talking about

[20:52]

mercutio

comcast do a weird burst thing where you get 5 seconds or something of burst speed
i can't rmemeber how much it is
"powerboost"
oh it's more than 5 seconds, too.

[20:52]

brycec

brycec shrugs nothing I "signed up" for
(Current speedtest through a 100mbps link http://www.speedtest.net/result/4151329009.png )

[20:53]

mercutio

it's called comcast blast now apparently
and it's on upload and download

[20:55]

brycec

fwiw, I can sustain those speeds for long durations

mercutio

yeah
so you don't have blast

brycec

...I do have Blast. That's the name of the plan.

mercutio

oh
hmm
their web site is really confusing

heh.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Comcast/comments/2w8jnq/data_caps_for_all_comcast_xfinity_customers/

brycec

(Don't tell me what I have ;P I know what I have.)

[20:57]

mercutio

i thought i got it, but no, i still don't :)
i think performance is 50 megabit, and performance w/ blast is 105 megabit, and the 105 megabit is burst only
but they decided to just let it burst to that speed all the time.

[20:59]

brycec

"Performance w/Blast" and "Blast" are the same thing
Just poorly named

[21:00]

BryceBot

yarly

[21:00]

mercutio

[21:01]

brycec

The agent is wrong

[21:04]

mercutio

[21:04]

brycec

(And speaking as someone who routinely exceeds 1TB/mo... I'd know)

[21:04]

mercutio

ahh

[21:05]

brycec

(My router has me at 836GB this month so far)

[21:06]

mercutio

nice
i don't acutally know how much i do
it'll be over 350gb/month

[21:07]

mnathani_

brycec: what do you do with over 1TB of transfer per month?
thats a lot of smokepings

[21:07]

brycec

Backups >.>

[21:07]

mercutio

my smokeping does like 200gb/month
i had to upgrade my sydney vm because it was hitting the cap :(

brycec

(Comcast reads 803GB so far)

mnathani_

mercutio: how do you figure out how much an application uses?

brycec

(Ooh according to Comcast, January saw 1.440GB (or TB, depending on your decimal separator))

mercutio

mnathani_: it's the only application on the host :)

mnathani_

smokeping box gotcha

brycec

mercutio: Maybe it's ddos traffic? :P

mercutio

brycec: i'm doing curl with smokeping too
and it includes incoming and outgoing.

mnathani_

so you incur data trafer on the hosts being monitored as well

brycec

only if they're your hosts

mercutio

yeah well i have multiple hosts checking multiple other hosts

brycec

if he's monitoring Google.com, they aren't going to charge-back :P

mercutio

so i can see if there's a general issue or specific issue
well i only ping google
actually i started curling google from one host
it gives these spikes that ping doesn't..

mnathani_

google can detect automated searches

brycec

and throttle

mnathani_

and rate limit
yea

mercutio

it's not a search

mnathani_

hit you with a captcha

mercutio

it's just the main page

BryceBot

That's what she said!!

mnathani_

BryceBot: no

BryceBot

Oh, okay... I'm sorry. 'hit you with a captcha'

mercutio

http://202.49.71.24:24/smokeping/smokeping.fcgi?target=Curl.google
it doesn't look ilek that though really?
http://202.49.71.24:24/smokeping/smokeping.fcgi?target=Wider.google
oh
that one was a real issue :/
http://syd.meh.net.nz:24/cgi-bin/smokeping.cgi?target=Wider.google
so yeah i can easily see that wasn't a general google issue, although i didn't notice other sites with high ping/loss

mnathani

why is Dec-Jan so high?

mercutio

where?

http://syd.meh.net.nz:24/cgi-bin/smokeping.cgi?displaymode=n;start=2014-02-23%2018:13;end=now;target=Wider.google

mnathani

mercutio

oh that's vultr
they had fucked routing to google

mnathani

google probably de-peered their session?

mercutio

nah they just never peered with google i think

mnathani

perhaps abuse related

mercutio

and they're using NTT mostly
so it was hitting japan i think

mnathani

for an entire month?
thats odd

mercutio

it's vultr
there was some massive congestion issues in evenigns

mnathani

I see posts from gamers complaining about pings to their gameservers hosted on vultr

http://syd.meh.net.nz:24/cgi-bin/smokeping.cgi?target=Wider.trademe

mercutio

mnathani

on their discuss.v*

http://202.49.71.24:24/smokeping/smokeping.fcgi?target=meh.lameh

mercutio

http://syd.meh.net.nz:24/cgi-bin/smokeping.cgi?target=meh.xanadu
swee how broken it was in general
yeah their network sucks
but it's a lot better than it was
also it was peak time congestion for the most part
there's hardly any cheap options in sydney

that's to arp, pretty steady.
so like .1 msec jitter