[03:34] *** _Zodiac has joined #arpnetworks [03:35] *** _Zodiac has left [18:55] what works better for using IMAP with Fastmail? Thunderbird or OperaMail [18:58] isn't that like asking if emacs or vim is better? [18:59] they both should work fine, and it should be personal preference. [18:59] everyone knows that vim is better :-) [18:59] I see it more like "which web browsers is better" since we're comparing clients [18:59] Brycebot: which do you prefer? [18:59] :) [19:00] @google fastmail or thunderbird [19:00] 3,370 total results returned for 'fastmail or thunderbird', here's 3 [19:00] How to set up Thunderbird | FastMail (https://www.fastmail.com/help/clients/thunderbird.html) The instructions and screenshots in this setup guide are for the latest version of Thunderbird, which you can download for free for Windows, Mac OS X or Linux. [19:00] Fastmail's sent folder doesn't appear on IMAP | Thunderbird Support ... (https://support.mozilla.org/questions/1017517) Aug 29, 2014 ... Hi, I've just setup Thunderbird to connect to Fastmail using IMAP. The inbox synchronizes, but TB doesn't recognize Fastmail's sent folder. [19:00] Using FastMail: A Primer - Tuts+ Computer Skills Tutorial (http://computers.tutsplus.com/tutorials/using-fastmail-a-primer--cms-21064) May 19, 2014 ... Fastmail with Thunderbird Setting up FastMail on your PC. Click Done when you' re finished., and Thunderbird will fetch your mail for you. [19:00] silly me [19:00] I messed up the terms [19:00] you mean operamail or thunderbird right [19:00] @google operamail vs thunderbird [19:00] Searching for 'opera mail vs thunderbird' instead. [19:00] 24,500 total results returned for 'opera mail vs thunderbird', here's 3 [19:00] Thunderbird vs Opera Mail - Email Clients Comparison (http://email-clients.softwareinsider.com/compare/2-9/Thunderbird-vs-Opera-Mail) Compare Email Clients: Thunderbird vs Opera Mail. In this side by side comparison, find features which are most important for you to make the best decision. [19:00] Outlook Alternatives: 5 Other Mail Management Options (https://blog.udemy.com/outlook-alternatives/) Feb 11, 2014 ... Thunderbird is a somewhat stripped down version of Outlook, but it can ... You can even send e-cards on special occasions, like Christmas or ... If you're looking for a simple email client, then Opera Mail might be right for you. [19:00] Opera Mail review: Email client is a blast from the past | Macworld (http://www.macworld.com/article/2064515/opera-mail-review-email-client-is-a-blast-from-the-past.html) Nov 22, 2013 ... Opera Mail reminds me of Mozilla's open-source Thunderbird—with a ... Modern email clients often make importing or creating accounts a snap ... [19:00] lol mnathani_ [19:01] Why not Evolution? Or balsa? Or _____...? [19:01] mutt! [19:01] mutt supports imap. [19:02] and it works with vim, too. [19:02] I ride the short bus [19:02] lol [19:02] that is windows [19:02] So why not Outlook? Or whatever Mail client is builtin? [19:02] outlook express? [19:02] Outlook is a resource hog [19:02] I think it changed though [19:02] but works well with Exchange [19:02] ram is cheap [19:03] I think they have some mail app built in too [19:16] mercutio: I am running an i7 Windows system with 24 gigs of RAM [19:16] and still running out of ram? [19:16] i've been running out of ram with 16gb recently actually [19:16] CPU is more precious than RAM [19:17] can't tolerate Outlook taking up a lot of CPU cycles constantly [19:17] oh i didn't know it'd use lots of cpu [19:17] is this outlook or outlook express? [19:17] memory is at 48% usage [19:18] Outlook 2014 [19:18] s/2014/2013 [19:18] Outlook 2013 [19:18] Outlook Express is not an option with Windows 8 [19:18] the Windows 8 equivalent to a free mail app is one of their metro style apps [19:19] ie: not a desktop application, more like a tablet one [19:24] oh i didn't realise that was all you could do [19:25] actually i seem to remember it changed to windows live mail? [19:25] which tried to download msn [19:25] so i must be a bit out of date [19:27] http://windows.microsoft.com/en-ca/windows-8/mail-app-tutorial [19:27] 300ms latency to my VPS via v6, ouch. [19:28] Others seeing terrible v6 performance? [19:28] Negatory [19:28] Seems to originate at lax2.he.net [19:28] mhoran: my v6 tunnel is down [19:28] * brycec doesn't route via lax2.he.net anyways [19:28] probably semi-related [19:29] lax1.he.net seems fine. [19:29] Something in that DC it seems. [19:29] wow [19:29] tracing to www.he.net gives 145 msec pings [19:29] oh it went down to 10 msec [19:29] Yikes. [19:29] Yeah it's all over the place but averaging super high for me. [19:30] yeah need to check form womehwere else really [19:30] but it looks like he.net lax to fremotn is screwed from trace from arp [19:31] and it's fine from my dallas ipv6 connected test host [19:32] but it's going over gtt/ntt [19:32] oh but www.he.net is screwed from my dallas test host. [19:32] mercutio: do you know of any decent east coast vps with v6 providers? [19:32] mnathani_: nope [19:33] my test host is vultr :/ [19:33] but it's far from decent [19:33] ipv6 isn't even working in the uk location for some unknown reason [19:33] and they're doing silly things like having a huge broadcast network [19:33] err broadcast domain [19:34] 16:33:06.618406 ARP, Request who-has 104.156.237.150 tell 104.156.237.1, length 46 [19:34] 16:33:06.618703 ARP, Request who-has 104.156.237.151 tell 104.156.237.1, length 46 [19:34] 16:33:06.618964 ARP, Request who-has 104.156.237.153 tell 104.156.237.1, length 46 [19:34] so there's all this crap coming through constantly [19:34] yikes. [19:35] i don't know a lot about east coast stuff [19:36] considering it's even further away from me. but from what i do know, it seems virgnia and atlanta seem like popular spots [19:37] new york seems expensive, florida is kind of bad routing wise. [19:37] but there seem to be more options with chicago, dallas, if you want to get in between [19:37] but yeah i'm over 10,000 miles away i think [19:39] ok 10,000 km from los angeles [19:41] there was talking of arp doing an east coast location, i'd hav emore faith in that [19:47] I'd love an East coast location. [19:47] NYC preferably. :) [19:48] i think nyc colo space is expensive [19:48] you may be able to get NJ .. [19:49] Yeah. One of the major DCs is just Google now. There may still be a few colos in there but they (Google) took over a former employer's rack so they could build an elevator. [19:49] I'm sure there's space in Brooklyn, and there's space in Newark. [19:49] Both pretty decent. Perhaps Newark more so. [19:49] And by rack, I mean cage. [19:50] can anyone remember where the arp east coast location was to be? [19:51] i expect there's quite a lot of work involved in setting up a new location though [19:51] as well as money. [20:02] coresite have data centers in north virginia, new york, and boston [20:03] http://www.thewhir.com/web-hosting-news/coresite-reality-acquires-new-jersey-building-to-convert-into-data-center [20:08] I worked with coresite in Boston. They've a nice datacenter. [20:09] But I have no idea where the proposed location was. [20:09] there may not have been a location in mind [20:09] Though I tried to convince up_the_irons multiple times that NYC was a good option. :) [20:09] and that you'd do remote hands? [20:10] Absolutely! [20:10] what'd he say? [20:12] it seems he was considering NY, VA, FL? [20:12] PR would be good. :) [20:12] where is PR? [20:13] oh [20:13] puerto rico? [20:13] Yeah I'd totally do remote hands for PR. :p [20:13] I've even got a plane to get me there! [20:13] well chat logs did say he'd like to do it somewhere he wouldn't mind visiting for a few days. [20:14] mercutio: Logs show we left it at 'ah cool'. Then started talking about my exciting new job. [20:14] Whew, that was a while ago! [20:14] Wasn't even using weechat yet. [20:15] mhoran: heh. [20:15] Still the irssi days. [20:15] well iw as finding stuff from 2013. [20:15] Ah this is even older. So maybe he's gotten more thoughts on that. [20:16] now if he'll come in :) [20:16] I do miss spending time in the datacenter. But I also like programming as my day job. [20:16] i hate datacenters myself. [20:16] That's what she said!! [20:16] but if things are setup right you shouldn't have to spend much time in there. [20:18] It's true. [20:18] I don't mean remote hands so much as getting things set up and such. [20:19] It's fun. [20:19] I agree that regularly spending time in the DC is probably not a good sign. [20:19] what's not so fun is having to go to data centres in peak traffic. [20:19] Well, that's not so bad in NYC. :) [20:19] peak internet, or physical? :) [20:19] But I agree. [20:19] ahh. [20:19] randal: physical [20:19] The Coresite location in Boston could be a pain to get to. [20:20] It wasn't even In Boston. Charlestown. [20:20] There was a subway and you could walk a mile and a half or take a crappy bus that usually didn't show up on time. [20:20] lots of data centers are a bit further out to save money. [20:20] There is a data center in downtown Boston that's quite nice, but it is extremely overpriced and they are very greedy. [20:21] I would imagine much of NYC is the same. [20:21] well i think you generally pay like 25% more for central [20:21] or even more [20:21] and convenience isn't necesasrily better if you don't live centrally [20:21] Well there is lots of competition here. [20:23] that doesn't bring real estate prices down [20:24] i think dallas was cheap because of power too. [20:24] Power is cheaper here than Boston, actually. [20:24] you have cheaper power than we have here [20:24] Though they are proposing a rate hike for next year. [20:25] chicago is cheap for power [20:25] http://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/epm_table_grapher.cfm?t=epmt_5_6_a [20:25] Chicago is pretty all right. [20:25] But I need to live on a coast. [20:25] And I hate the west coast. [20:25] So NYC it is. [20:25] why not florida? [20:26] when i was looking at where i'd want to live if i lived in US i was thinking like tampa or something [20:26] Florida is terrible. Unelss you're retired. [20:26] Because we can all agree that Florida is a terrible place to live. [20:26] what's terrible about it? [20:26] I don't like one season all the time (hence my hatred of SF.) [20:26] it rains though? [20:26] so it's not as bad :) [20:27] But also, it's filled with transients, or old people, is boring, is just humid all the time, and nobody actually wants to visit you. [20:27] what about seattle? [20:27] Honestly, I'd take Phoenix (Arizona, desert) over Florida any day. [20:27] I've never been, but I'd like to go. [20:27] They've a lot of float planes there, I like that. [20:28] it's kind of weird seeing how dry most of the US looks. [20:28] Seattle is interesting [20:28] even when water is in the picture it still looks dry. [20:28] and i found california seemed to look disturbingly pristine. [20:28] in an artifical way. [20:29] it's hard to find out what somewhere is like on the internet though [20:29] Google Streetview, Reddit, Wikitravel... [20:29] (and more) [20:29] i'd rather travel sometime :) [20:30] When feasible, absolutely. And the above resources (among others) help plan that too [20:30] if i went to the US i would have to go to california [20:30] re: disturbingly pristine, I would not say that about San Francisco! [20:30] cos all the flights go through there anyway. [20:31] mhoran: my friend lives in santa clara. [20:31] which is probably on the worse side of that. [20:31] houses are even more expensive than here it seems! [20:31] Santa Clara aint too bad... [20:31] yeah he can cycle to work apparently [20:33] apparentyl residential internet sucks there though [20:33] choice between comcast, and at&t. and comcast has congestion. [20:33] s/there/in the US/ [20:33] apparentyl residential internet sucks in the US though [20:33] oh that's normal is it ? [20:33] Yes [20:33] it always surprises me when people live in "internet cities" and have bad internet [20:34] well tech cities [20:34] it really shouldn't surprise me, it seems pretty common. [20:34] For starters, tech cities were built before tech was tech [20:34] and they usually have money so people don't want to dig up the roads. [20:34] apparently people are much less keen to dig up roads in richer areas. [20:35] but that's also partially to do with apparently poorer people spend more on cable tv. [20:36] it is kind of amusing when you see that countries like bulgaria have fast cheap internet [20:38] It can also be argued that those countries didn't start until later, so they started with better "tech" [20:38] 10 euro to nzd [20:38] oh oops [20:38] how do i tell brycebot to do it again? [20:38] @exch 10 EUR NZD [20:38] 10 EUR -> 11.404758293255 USD -> 15.131468351225 NZD (as of Tue, 17 Feb 2015 20:01:01 -0800) [20:38] yeah so that's how much cable internet costs apparently. [20:38] daily? [20:38] monthly [20:38] in bulgaria. [20:39] * brycec doesn't believe it. [20:39] That's what she said!! [20:39] @exch 70 USD NZD [20:39] 70 USD -> 92.87376 NZD (as of Tue, 17 Feb 2015 20:01:01 -0800) [20:40] I pay that monthly for ~120mbps [20:40] @exch 7.95 leva nzd [20:40] mercutio, I'm sorry, I couldn't make sense of your query. Usage Examples: 900 USD to SEK, 1500 CAD to AUD [20:40] Which frankly is significantly improved over years past. [20:40] @exch 7.95 bgn nzd [20:40] 7.95 BGN -> 4.6334287605957 USD -> 6.147485009838 NZD (as of Tue, 17 Feb 2015 20:01:01 -0800) [20:41] @exch 1 CAD USD [20:41] 1 CAD -> 0.80653226612984 USD (as of Tue, 17 Feb 2015 20:01:01 -0800) [20:41] ugh still quite bad [20:43] http://www.mtel.bg/promocionalna-oferta-fix-internet [20:43] chrome's translate is necessary [20:43] not if you earn in USD but spend in CAD [20:43] @exch 1 USD CAD [20:44] 1 USD -> 1.239876 CAD (as of Tue, 17 Feb 2015 20:01:01 -0800) [20:44] so it's $6.14 for 2 years. [20:44] anot much more for 50 megabit [20:44] but quite a bit more for 100 [20:44] @exch 18.45 bgn to nzd [20:44] 18.45 BGN -> 10.753051651948 USD -> 14.266804834152 NZD (as of Tue, 17 Feb 2015 20:01:01 -0800) [20:44] well that's 100 megabit pricing. [20:44] @exch 1 nzd to usd [20:44] 1 NZD -> 0.75371127431473 USD (as of Tue, 17 Feb 2015 20:01:01 -0800) [20:45] this has been going up and down recently. [20:45] BryceBot: 120 megabit, nice :) [20:46] huh? [20:46] brycec: do you get 120 megabit regularly? [20:46] i tab complted. :) [20:46] mercutio: It's what Comcast offers here. [20:47] http://www.comcast.com/internet-service.html [20:47] yeh it's not that cheap here [20:47] $30 for up to 25 megabit? [20:47] that sounds good [20:47] 25mbps isn't listed on that Comcast page, not for me anyways [20:48] 105 megabit for $45? [20:48] weird [20:48] That's promo pricing [20:48] That's what she said!! [20:48] $79/mo normally [20:48] i.e. scroll down [20:49] i see $78.95/mo for 105 megabit [20:49] so you're on 105 megabit? [20:49] Yes [20:49] And as is often the case, I get speeds a bit better than that. [20:49] but it is rate limited to like 120? [20:50] i see. [20:50] what upload speed? [20:50] Hard to say. That's just the speed my laptop got on speedtest [20:50] mercutio: http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/4064904065 [20:51] (I'd provide an updated test, but I'm connected through a 100mbps link at the moment) [20:52] do you have that burst thing enabled? [20:52] I have no idea what you're talking about [20:52] comcast do a weird burst thing where you get 5 seconds or something of burst speed [20:52] i can't rmemeber how much it is [20:53] "powerboost" [20:53] oh it's more than 5 seconds, too. [20:53] * brycec shrugs nothing I "signed up" for [20:54] (Current speedtest through a 100mbps link http://www.speedtest.net/result/4151329009.png ) [20:55] it's called comcast blast now apparently [20:55] and it's on upload and download [20:56] fwiw, I can sustain those speeds for long durations [20:56] yeah [20:56] so you don't have blast [20:56] ...I do have Blast. That's the name of the plan. [20:56] oh [20:56] hmm [20:57] their web site is really confusing [20:57] (Don't tell me what I have ;P I know what I have.) [20:59] i thought i got it, but no, i still don't :) [21:00] i think performance is 50 megabit, and performance w/ blast is 105 megabit, and the 105 megabit is burst only [21:00] but they decided to just let it burst to that speed all the time. [21:00] "Performance w/Blast" and "Blast" are the same thing [21:00] Just poorly named [21:00] yarly [21:01] heh. [21:03] http://www.reddit.com/r/Comcast/comments/2w8jnq/data_caps_for_all_comcast_xfinity_customers/ [21:04] The agent is wrong [21:04] ok [21:04] (And speaking as someone who routinely exceeds 1TB/mo... I'd know) [21:05] ahh [21:06] (My router has me at 836GB this month so far) [21:07] nice [21:07] i don't acutally know how much i do [21:07] it'll be over 350gb/month [21:07] brycec: what do you do with over 1TB of transfer per month? [21:07] thats a lot of smokepings [21:07] Backups >.> [21:08] my smokeping does like 200gb/month [21:08] i had to upgrade my sydney vm because it was hitting the cap :( [21:08] (Comcast reads 803GB so far) [21:08] mercutio: how do you figure out how much an application uses? [21:08] (Ooh according to Comcast, January saw 1.440GB (or TB, depending on your decimal separator)) [21:08] mnathani_: it's the only application on the host :) [21:09] smokeping box gotcha [21:09] mercutio: Maybe it's ddos traffic? :P [21:09] brycec: i'm doing curl with smokeping too [21:09] and it includes incoming and outgoing. [21:09] so you incur data trafer on the hosts being monitored as well [21:10] only if they're your hosts [21:10] yeah well i have multiple hosts checking multiple other hosts [21:10] if he's monitoring Google.com, they aren't going to charge-back :P [21:10] so i can see if there's a general issue or specific issue [21:10] well i only ping google [21:10] actually i started curling google from one host [21:10] it gives these spikes that ping doesn't.. [21:11] google can detect automated searches [21:11] and throttle [21:11] and rate limit [21:11] yea [21:11] it's not a search [21:11] hit you with a captcha [21:11] it's just the main page [21:11] That's what she said!! [21:11] BryceBot: no [21:11] Oh, okay... I'm sorry. 'hit you with a captcha' [21:11] http://202.49.71.24:24/smokeping/smokeping.fcgi?target=Curl.google [21:11] it doesn't look ilek that though really? [21:12] http://202.49.71.24:24/smokeping/smokeping.fcgi?target=Wider.google [21:12] oh [21:12] that one was a real issue :/ [21:14] http://syd.meh.net.nz:24/cgi-bin/smokeping.cgi?target=Wider.google [21:14] so yeah i can easily see that wasn't a general google issue, although i didn't notice other sites with high ping/loss [21:15] why is Dec-Jan so high? [21:15] where? [21:15] http://syd.meh.net.nz:24/cgi-bin/smokeping.cgi?displaymode=n;start=2014-02-23%2018:13;end=now;target=Wider.google [21:15] oh that's vultr [21:15] they had fucked routing to google [21:16] google probably de-peered their session? [21:16] nah they just never peered with google i think [21:16] perhaps abuse related [21:16] and they're using NTT mostly [21:16] so it was hitting japan i think [21:16] for an entire month? [21:16] thats odd [21:16] it's vultr [21:17] there was some massive congestion issues in evenigns [21:18] I see posts from gamers complaining about pings to their gameservers hosted on vultr [21:18] http://syd.meh.net.nz:24/cgi-bin/smokeping.cgi?target=Wider.trademe [21:18] on their discuss.v* [21:18] http://syd.meh.net.nz:24/cgi-bin/smokeping.cgi?target=meh.xanadu [21:18] swee how broken it was in general [21:19] yeah their network sucks [21:19] but it's a lot better than it was [21:19] also it was peak time congestion for the most part [21:20] there's hardly any cheap options in sydney [21:23] http://202.49.71.24:24/smokeping/smokeping.fcgi?target=meh.lameh [21:23] that's to arp, pretty steady. [21:23] so like .1 msec jitter [21:23] seems to be progressively getting better [21:24] week 50 - week 02 steady, then latency drops a bit for the next weeks then again [21:27] it's going via san jose [21:27] but over any2ix in both directions now [21:28] it was sending via ntt and receiving via any2ix previously. [21:28] it would be about 125 to 126 msec if it went via los angeles direct. [21:29] and what like 129 msec if it went one way via los angeles [21:29] i wonder if i'm measuring anything in san jose [21:30] doesn't look like i am [21:33] http://la.meh.net.nz:24/cgi-bin/smokeping.cgi?target=Wider.wikipedia [21:33] hmm, arp got better to wikipedia [21:33] oh wikipedia is in san jose [21:34] well san francisco, but close enough. [21:35] yeah, the whole west coast is one big place [21:36] i have been meaning to figure out more good sites to test. [21:36] i'd like to test amazon and ebay, but they don't respond to ping [21:54] mercutio: how about a tcp ping on port 80? [21:54] could probably do that with hping [21:54] i'm actually thinking of making my own system sometime or other [21:55] but it's a big task that i haven't started on yet. i want to be able to join multiple systems together better [21:55] like a cluster? [21:55] like being able to identify issues [21:55] preferably i want something lots of people can run [21:55] who might do a subset of tests [21:55] and look for pattenrs etc [21:56] my current plan is to start with dns though [21:56] as nothing really monitors dns that well [21:57] and with anycast etc around there can be local issues with dns [21:58] but to do it welle verything has to be async [21:58] including dns resolution [22:08] I wonder if up_the_irons is around and available to make a quick VPS change