#arpnetworks 2015-02-08,Sun

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WhoWhatWhen
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hazardoussaw this ad on HN, not sure what to feel
We teach computer science using fullstack JavaScript. JavaScript is here in a big way and it is growing bigger every day. Today's internet demands real-time, interactive and dynamic apps that are built in JavaScript
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RandalSchwartzwhat's wrong with it? [09:09]
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brycecOnly the first sentence seems like marketing mumbo-jumbo. The rest is pretty factual. [11:40]
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mercutiojavscript is pretty fast now. [13:34]
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http://www.cdotson.com/2014/08/nodejs-vs-python-vs-pypy-a-simple-performance-comparison/ [14:56]
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hazardousjust got home; yeah - js is pretty nice nowadays, i do use nodejs, but i still have doubts about the whole full stack thing, especially since server side js is starting to break off into different camps, and you have to wonder if a portion of the popularity would be because browsers simply don't support anything else
that being said, for benchmarks and stuff, i honestly don't think i've ever seen things like typed arrays in js used outside of emscription/etc "compiled" js
and a lot of other fun things, like es6 support also get more fun to deal with in browsers, but at least you can sanely shiv it server side
[18:37]
mercutiooh i'm not actually a fan of javascript.
i'm just noting that people are putting a lot of work into making it go faster.
and node.js and the like sprouted from that.
[18:39]
hazardousyeah, and now node.js is splitting into slappy-camps that seemingly don't like to cooperate with each other
there's a second runtime or whatever for it now
[18:39]
brycecAnd strictly, js isn't he only thing browsers support. Remember plugins? ActiveX controls? etc [18:40]
hazardousbrycec: yeah, but you get what i mean [18:40]
mercutioi still use awk. [18:40]
hazardouslike i guess there was <script language="VBScript"> in the past
but that doesn't really count
[18:40]
mercutiothe current fragmentation reminds me of freshmeat.net 15 years ago or so.
when everyhthing seemed to be about forks.
including gcc!
go egcs!
and glibc.
[18:40]
hazardouswhat happened to sourceforge anyway
or even codeplex
[18:41]
mercutioit's still there. [18:41]
hazardousall i ever see is github nowadays [18:41]
mercutiosourceforge has always been slow for download speeds for me. [18:41]
hazardousand on the rare times i encounter sourceforge i can barely get 50kb/s from their mirrors [18:41]
mercutioand it has these annoying mirror relocating things [18:41]
hazardousand on new uploads, mirrors are often not even in the US, just some random mirror in eastern europe [18:41]
mercutiowhich means you can't just copy url and put it somewhere else.
so you have to statrt downloading, then copy the url that's downloading.
i usually get 300k/sec+
[18:41]
hazardousyou can wget it from the /files page [18:42]
mercutiowhen kernel.org etc gives 3000k/sec+ [18:42]
hazardousif your useragent is wget, it'll 302 it to the direct file
unless you're downloading a windows binary
[18:42]
mercutioi use curl [18:42]
hazardouscan you curl http://sourceforge.net/projects/filezilla/files/FileZilla_Client_Unstable/3.10.1-rc1/FileZilla_3.10.1-rc1_x86_64-linux-gnu.tar.bz2/download and tell me what it downloads?
i get 302ed to the direct download, and it starts
with wget
same thing with curl, but i have to force curl with -L
it 302s up to 3-4 times
[18:43]
mercutionah it doesn't work in curl
it works in wget, and wow, i got 1.93mb/sec
from hivelocity
although it named it download.1
http://d.sfquickdelivery.com/?ic_user_id=128
weird
if i download in chrome it shows that
which gives an internal service error if i try downloading it with wget
so yeah it bloody sucks.
[18:50]
hazardousi'm pretty sure that's for malware
for like the "SPONSOSRED OFFERS INSTALLER" thing
[18:52]
mercutiohttp://downloads.sourceforge.net/project/filezilla/FileZilla_Client_Unstable/3.10.1-rc1/FileZilla_3.10.1-rc1_x86_64-linux-gnu.tar.bz2?r=&ts=1423450248&use_mirror=tcpdiag
that works.
although now it's getting 200k/sec
from iweb.dl.sourceforge.net
[18:53]
hazardousyeah i dunno what it is about sourceforge but i haven't been able to get acceptable speeds from any mirror
and only the largest projects actually get western mirrors from what i've encountered
[18:53]
mercutioi got 1.93mb/sec from hivelocity [18:53]
hazardousi wouldn't call that very good though [18:54]
mercutioit's way better than 155kb/sec [18:54]
hazardoussince github easily does line speed, but then again github is on a cdn iirc [18:54]
mercutioFileZilla_3.10.1-rc1_x86_64-linux- 100%[===============================================================>] 6.33M 155KB/s in 32s
github isn't cdn
it's about the same ping as iweb and hivelocity
they're all around 210 msec from nz, suggesting east coast US
Receiving objects: 100% (27342/27342), 14.39 MiB | 1.62 MiB/s, done.
i suppose still not wonderful, but it's faster than iweb :)
and later git pulls are quicker
[18:54]
hazardouswhat latency to/from github.map.fastly.net? [18:57]
mercutio% ping github.map.fastly.net
PING github.map.fastly.net (103.245.222.133) 56(84) bytes of data.
zsh: bus error ping github.map.fastly.net
i think i know the issue
it's just funny :)
[18:58]
hazardouslol [18:58]
mercutio11 msec
and i fixed the issue
how's this for an obscure issue? /etc/nsswitch.conf on arch linux has myhostname module in /etc/hosts
[18:58]
hazardousyou resolve your own dns? [18:59]
mercutioif that's in there, and you have too many routes, then netstat etc all randomly break when doing dns lookups
i'm using dnsmasq here, but that's not the issue.
the issue is i was experimenting with bird on here. (bgp)
and i have a full routing table, and that overloads myhostname.
so if you do netstat -t it'll crash
but you do netstat -nt and it's fine
ping is the same way it seems, so it'll be the reverse lookup on the ip address..
so what's on this cdn thing anyweay
cos my dsl is like 10 or 11 msec ping
[18:59]
hazardousi dunno, random chunks
github pages, downloads, presumablyt anything non-git
like git:// or whatever
[19:02]
mercutiowell it doesn't seem the https clones are on it yeh
avatars0.githubusercontent.com is on it
https://avatars0.githubusercontent.com/u/1024025?v=3&s=40
that person looks familiar
[19:02]
hazardouscan't tell what that is
is that elon musk i'm joking don't kill me
[19:04]
mercutioheh [19:05]
hazardousinteresting
even the github api is behind fastly cdn
[19:05]
mercutioi wish people would go to higher resolution avatars. [19:05]
hazardousbut large file downloads in repos are served from amazon cloudfront
didn't expect that
[19:06]
mercutioi dunno who this elon musk is, but his wife is hot [19:06]
brycecDo you really not know anything about Elon Musk? [19:08]
mercutioi have heard of spacex
i did a little google
but his name doesn't register in my head at all
apparently he's a billionare :/
[19:08]
brycecwow... What must it be like for you under that little rock of yours?
Essentially, he's mankind's saviour.
[19:09]
mercutio? [19:09]
brycecTesla Motors, SpaceX, a lot of other ideas to better the world.
(And there's also Paypal...)
[19:09]
mercutioi've never seen a tesla car.
and spacex seemed like some kind of pipe dream. and paypal is something that ebay uses :/
[19:10]
brycecFYI Musk is unmarried [19:10]
mercutiobut yeah i don't know the high up names in paypal, ebay, amazon, etc.
yeah said that they broke up reconciled, broke up
[19:10]
brycecyou've never seen a Tesla? wow... that is one very tiny rock [19:11]
mercutiowell yeah there's no recharging stations here.
and it's 50km to the airport
don't they only run like 100km ?
[19:11]
brycec@wa 260mi to km [19:11]
BryceBotconvert 260 miles to kilometers;418.4 km (kilometers);418429 meters;4.184×10^7 cm (centimeters);225.9 nmi (nautical miles);~~ 2.7 × length of the Thirlmere Aqueduct (world's longest tunnel) (~~ 154 km );~~ 4 × thickness of the Earth's atmosphere (~~ 100 km );~~ ( 0.066 ~~ 1/15 ) × equatorial radius of Earth (~~ 6378 km );~~ ( 0.066 ~~ 1/15 ) × polar radius of Earth (~~ 6357 km );~~ 3.8 × distance corresponding to one degree of latitu [19:11]
mercutiooh wow they run much further now
oh and they look much more normal now too
maye i have seen one and didn't notice
also we dive on the left here.
which means there are hardly any americans cars.
and most cars come from japan..
[19:11]
hazardoustesla is south african? [19:12]
brycecIt's American. [19:13]
m0undselon musk is from south africa
he was born there, lives in the us
[19:13]
mercutiohttp://www.3news.co.nz/nznews/bringing-the-tesla-electric-car-to-nz-2014112218#axzz3RDJwlNnD [19:13]
hazardoushey do you know anything about australia, mercutio, because if so i have an incredibly stupid question [19:13]
mercutiolooks like the first one came in in november last year
hazardous: a little
[19:13]
m0undsspace-x is going to have a facility + hangar down in southern nm at the space port [19:13]
hazardousok can i ask a really stupid question then [19:14]
mnathani_could anyone recommend 1 over the other for an online photo gallery: 4images OR Coppermine OR Gallery OR Piwigo OR Pixelpost OR Zenphoto [19:14]
mercutiosure, go ahead. [19:15]
brycecm0unds: Well, maybe. if that project ever actually gets anywhere... :P [19:15]
hazardoussomeone linked this in another channel - http://i.imgur.com/ttMlwGB.png - i have absolutely no idea why it's supposed to be funny other than the top flags are aus states [19:15]
m0undswhich project? [19:15]
brycecm0unds: the spaceport [19:15]
hazardousmnathani: for some reason at least half of those stand out to me as really overbloated php applications with many security issues in the past [19:15]
m0undsconstruction is complete
it's hinging on virgin at this point
[19:15]
brycecm0unds: yeah, but Virgin ^^ [19:16]
m0undsthey're paying for it, but it's been delayed repeatedly [19:16]
mnathani_hazardous: would you recommend a different software? [19:17]
brycecThe only self-hosted image gallery I'm familiar with is Gallery (or is it Gallery2?) [19:17]
hazardousmnathani: from (probably dated, but probably still applies) i wouldn't use coppermine or 4images at the very least
it'd probably be easier to recommend something if you had a use case
like personal vacation photos or something to upload for friends - maybe a static site generator or something
[19:18]
mercutiowell australians curse a lot [19:18]
m0undsflickr wouldn't work? [19:18]
mercutiobut yeah no it seems like random australian crap to me [19:18]
mnathani_showcase photographs I take publicly [19:18]
hazardousyeah, would you consider some kind of photoblog software for it/portfolio cms thing [19:19]
mnathani_I don't like how flickr doesnt give me google analytics style statistics [19:19]
m0undssmugmug works if you plan on selling prints [19:19]
hazardousflickr does full page interstitials for anyone with a mobile user agent btw [19:19]
mnathani_and can change its frontend without notice [19:19]
mercutioi'd just write my own :/ [19:19]
hazardousand occasionally forced redirects to play store / ios store
lol
[19:19]
mercutiobut i think gallery is ocommon? [19:19]
brycechttp://galleryproject.org/ ^ [19:20]
hazardous"The Gallery team has decided to take a step back from actively maintaining this project. Truth be told, most of the core team got busy with their lives over the past few years and we haven't had the time to really actively maintain the project in a long time" [19:20]
brycecI used it years and years ago, no issue. it's pretty common... [19:20]
mercutiohttp://www.ubergallery.net/demo/
this looks simple enough?
[19:20]
hazardousmercutio: i dunno, could give it a try, if it was for some kind of portfolio or showcase site i might be inclined to use ghost or wordpress or something with an appropriate theme [19:20]
m0undsi used gallery years ago, but it was a total pig
if all you're doing is hosting images, you could even do a flat html template and host via s3 or something
[19:22]
hazardousgalleryproject.org says they plan on going readonly, then shutting down their site soon
yeah i was going to say consider some kind of static site generator maybe
if it isn't going to be some public shared upload gallery thing
[19:23]
mnathani_checking out flickr again [19:23]
acf_I haven't been able to find anything that comes anywhere close to Flickr [19:24]
m0undsi'm a fan of smugmug myself [19:24]
acf_wow. that looks nice [19:25]
m0undsi think i pay like $60/yr for my acct. i back up all my photos to it, can use a vanity domain, control the template, etc.
good customer service too, always really fast to answer questions and fix stuff
[19:29]
mercutiohmm smugmug is yet another site on cloudflare.
cloudflare is getting so popular these days.
[19:32]
m0undsyep, what works works [19:33]
mercutioi used to hold a pretty negative view on it, because it tended to be slow, but you can't beat the pricing. [19:33]
m0undsoh, $48/yr i guess [19:33]
mercutioand performance has got better over time.
i wonder how much trafifc they're doing now
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hazardousbank of america online payments uses cloudflare
im not sure what to think about that, or whether to like it.
[20:06]
mercutioi wouldn't be impressed.
i would not use bank of america over that.
one of the big banks here runs on windows.
the bank that i use runs on solaris/java
and they also peer :/
they did have path mtu issues in teh past. i don't know if they still do, but they block icmp echo
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JC_Dentonbanks are so behind the times on tech, but it's hard for them to be faster movers [21:42]
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mercutioit's kind of to be expected
so it seems bank of america is using prolexic
where is their cloudflare stuff?
[21:57]
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mnathani_As of March 2014, CloudFlare was ranked in the top 10 of the world's worst hosts and networks based on malicious traffic it hosts
" " ^
off Wikipedia
[22:32]
mercutioit's free to host on there [22:40]
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tbh i'm not really that opposed to a global cdn hosting web sites with stolen credit cards.
because they're not really a host
they just proxy the traffic
and once they start deciding what is good and bad to host it's a slippery slope
[23:26]
now i'm tempted to google my old credit card #
dreamhost is higher on that list
[23:32]

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