[00:00] apparently gmail will declare your email client to be insecure [00:00] insecure means SMTP [00:00] even if it uses starttls and all [00:01] they would like you to only use Google clients [00:01] guess whether their website says this? [00:01] or even says anything useful at all? [00:02] what? [00:02] just an indecipherable message that your client is insecure, sending you through a maze of settings attempting to figure out why tcpdump's obviously encrypted output is considered insecure [00:02] i got a bounced message today [00:02] because it thought it was like spam. i bounce messages to gmail all the time :/ [00:02] no I'm getting failure during AUTH [00:02] and it's usually fine. [00:03] didn't even go in spam folder. have they been changing things? [00:03] before message is presented [00:03] I think they have; I only found one stackoverflow article on the subject [00:03] and this problem's application seems random depending on what account is used (I think A/B testing) [00:04] hmm i just bounced a random message to my gmail and it worked [00:04] but i run my own mail server, and don't try using a smtp client to send from my gmail account [00:04] not bounces [00:04] i don't even post from my gmail account, i just use it to have things conveniently on phone/tablet/etc [00:04] I do the same thing, and this problem was really hard to debug because I don't actually have a gmail account [00:05] joys of tech support [00:05] oh it's easy to get a gmail account [00:05] i've just switched to having two of them [00:06] i used to find hotmail was the problem mail host [00:06] and i've never had hotmail :) [00:06] google is quickly turning into one if they won't accept clients using anything other than the "Gmail API" [00:06] yay;) [00:06] do you use domainkeys, dkim, spf, ? [00:07] only spf [00:07] try implementing dkim? [00:07] no bounces for lack of it and not interested in another administrative headache [00:08] plus I've heard it and mailing lists don't get along [00:08] my only hint as to the real problem was google's list of insecure email clients including every client I've ever heard of [00:40] i got an email :) [00:40] err from news [01:02] for the googles: http://news.arpnetworks.com [01:03] mercutio: do you know where the templates are so i can like... add a title.. before the posts [01:03] i tried to find it last night, but had other things to do [01:04] brb [01:05] you mean title under admin-> settings? [01:38] *** LT has joined #arpnetworks [02:03] mercutio: oh :) [02:15] i can't be this dumb... how the fuck do you add a new site to Google Analytics?! I see all my existing ones.. fuck... [02:17] finally found it... [03:12] *** Guest62184 has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [05:48] That website is terrible. [06:31] All of Google's Web sites are terrible. [06:31] They should finally admit that they need to hire a UX person. [08:35] Every single one of news' emails ended up in my Gmail spam folder [08:35] "Why is this message in Spam? It's similar to messages that were detected by our spam filters." [08:36] btw, when will it be going https? [08:37] and also up_the_irons you'll need to update the arpnetworks SPF, or set it up to mail through one of the existing mail relays (mail, mail2) [08:38] (I gather you decided not to re-use zeit, awesome) [09:45] *** LT has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [10:32] *** toeshred has quit IRC (Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1) [11:07] brycec: he has soft fail. [11:07] I know [11:07] But a pass >> fail ;) [11:07] soft fail is like having nothing, sort of. [11:10] and zeit had old libraries. it seems it likes having very new stuff. [11:10] It's still likely to count against the message during spam filtering, even if only by 1 point [11:10] I'm not surprised [11:10] with spamassassin it's nowhere near 1 point. [11:10] zeit is just Debian -stable ;) [11:10] Does SA check SPF these days? Last I ran SA was pre-SPF [11:10] (before SPF was a thing) [11:10] yeah debian stable is kind of outdated, i thought it was better these days. [11:11] uhh [11:11] Not this close to testing/jessie's release [11:11] it's not high enough to mark on my email [11:12] *** tooth has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) [11:12] SPF_FAIL=0.001 [11:12] LOL [11:12] that's what my setup seems to have. [11:12] i had to check my spam folder [11:14] it's not mean to count at all really. it's meant to be the same as not having a record. [11:15] spf's main point these days seems to be to stop people saying that they're you, so hard fail is kind of necessary [11:17] Agreed. If only more relays would actually use it. [11:17] I have -all on my SPF, but still get bounces from mail pretending to be me [11:17] so it seems ubuntu precise uses glibc 2.15, ubuntu trusty uses 2.19, arch uses 2.20, and debian uses 2.13? [11:19] http://www.gnu.org/software/libc/ [11:19] and it seems 2.13 is 2011-02-04 [11:20] Yep yep and yep, confirmed all of those versions [11:20] so yeah they are kind of behind [11:20] for some reason the meteor thingy had some binary in it that wanted glibc 2.14 [11:21] Wasn't Debian running eglibc for awhile [11:21] ew precompiled? [11:21] yeah i think so [11:21] well it's shifted to the normal node.js stuff now [11:21] but it still wanted more recent package than ubuntu trusty had [11:21] i reckon glibc is way too hug [11:22] uge [11:22] way too huge [11:22] twss [11:22] Okay! twss! 'way too huge' [11:22] there were just new security vulnerabilitys today. [11:22] (there are always...) [11:23] there's musl, which seems like an interesting libc replacement, but not compatible with lots of things etc. [11:23] and i don't really know if musl is focused on security and being full featured. [11:24] but at least it's MIT licensed. [11:26] Looks like jessie comes with glibc 2.19 [11:26] (and squeeze was 2.11) [11:26] 2.19 is fine [11:26] it was released this year [11:26] i don't think much even changes [11:26] And yes, Debian did used to run eglibc, starting about 5 years ago [11:27] yeah eglibc was a fork when glibc wasn't accept patches afaik [11:27] Yep pretty much [11:27] but eglibc is now dead [11:27] so they're coming back to glibc [11:27] maybe glibc is accepting patches again [11:27] starting after jessie [11:27] i prefered libc5 :) [11:27] Most likely. Decent, short write-up http://blog.aurel32.net/175 [11:28] glibc 2.20 needs linux 2.6.32 [11:28] And wheezy runs 3.2.0 [11:28] so no issue there [11:28] just seems surprising [11:29] there's some locking file descriptor extension, bt i'm not finding much else interesting [11:29] s390 etc stuff isn't interesting to me :) [12:07] *** tooth has joined #arpnetworks [12:11] http://qz.com/298635/these-programming-languages-will-earn-you-the-most-money/ [12:26] tldr: Ruby or iOS. [12:31] actually something else was saying that python was still a better choice. [12:31] because ruby is kind of a fad [12:31] That's what she said!! [12:31] and apple have done a new programming language for new development [12:32] really a good programmer cares about the code more than the tools [13:04] *** toeshred has joined #arpnetworks [14:38] I have no idea what it means for Ruby to be a fad. [14:38] So I'll keep my Ruby job. [14:39] Rails definitely seems to have been a fad. It was all the rage for a few years, and now nobody really talks about it. [14:39] Sure, same with C I guess. [14:40] I dunno, I see lots of new projects starting in C. Not so much with Rails [14:40] (Plus C underlies so much anyways... Wouldn't surprise me if Ruby is written in C ;) ) [14:40] Yeah but nobody really talks about it. [14:41] Not in #arpnetworks maybe ;) [14:41] Rails isn't hyped anymore, I'll give you that. [14:42] * brycec runs with a C-writing crowd, among other languages [14:42] is there anything besides golang that doesn't use libc? [14:43] Does llvm? [14:44] yes [14:44] FYI golang binaries still link to libc [14:44] do they? :P [14:44] I had thought they handled syscalls directly [14:44] linux-vdso.so.1 => (0x00007fff98dff000) libpthread.so.0 => /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libpthread.so.0 (0x00007fe2fba3b000) libc.so.6 => /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libc.so.6 (0x00007fe2fb6af000) /lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2 (0x00007fe2fbc62000) [14:44] That's from a random go-compiled binary [14:57] brycec: ah yes, i'll use mail2 [14:59] brycec: we actually could use zeit in the end. damn binary packages. zeit isn't new enough. [14:59] brycec: it'll be https once i move it to one of our servers. not sure if anyone noticed, but it's running on Vultr ;) [15:02] all ya niggas talking shit about Ruby / Rails being a fad, let me just say i've done F/T and contracting work in Ruby / Rails / Sinatra for nearly a decade now (started in 2005). it's hardly a fad. [15:06] s/could/couldn't/ [15:06] brycec: we actually couldn't use zeit in the end. damn binary packages. zeit isn't new enough. [15:06] I noticed the unusual IP, but I don't know all of ARP's blocks :p [15:07] up_the_irons: Is there much in the way of new Rails projects? [15:09] No doubt that there will be work for awhile, but the gauge for whether something is a fad in programming is whether new projects are started based on/around it [15:22] i've got a friend who is heavily into rails, but i think it's still pretty niche [15:22] erk i join ruby and rails in my mind, and i have no idea if he was using ruby or ruby on rails [15:22] brycec: ah ok [15:22] objective c was a fad :) [15:22] brycec: tnx for the correction [15:23] I work at a Rails consultancy. We've grown by 4 in the past year. Take that as you will. [15:23] it only got big after apple forced it [15:23] i player with objective c like 16 years ago [15:23] and no-one was using it [15:23] brycec: not sure about new rails projects. for new stuff, i'm seeing more in node.js, meteor, etc.... [15:23] mail from news.arpnetworks.com should now no longer go into spam [15:24] are you smarthosting it? [15:29] relayhost [15:30] moded main.cf a bit, that's all [15:30] yeh that's smarthost. [15:30] ah [15:30] it wasn't going into spam folder for me before anyway [15:32] ew main.cf, that's sendmail [15:32] (right? now I'm thinking it's postfix) [15:38] it's postfix [15:42] Well at least it's not sendmail [15:52] i prefer postfix to exim [16:06] weird i'm having network issues to news.arpnetworks.com [16:06] starting at ntt [16:06] for some reason i left a trace running before [16:06] of course, it's on Vultr... (oh burn) [16:06] but it's fine to arp [16:06] that also goes via ntt [16:06] cuz arp rocks [16:06] ;) [16:07] xe-3-0-1.ar1.lax2.us.as4436.gtt.net [16:07] hmm arp doesn't thi that port [16:08] oh it's gtt not ntt [16:08] it changes from ntt to gtt [16:09] so yeah los angeles is bad as well as dallas for vultr :) [16:10] la doesn't even have ipv6 [16:10] dallas does i think [16:10] and they're both gtt [16:10] i mean for vultr [16:10] gtt has ipv6 [16:10] for vultr [16:10] yeah dallas does [16:11] they just haven't implemented it yet for some reason [16:15] did you drop nlayer? [16:15] no [16:16] hmm i haven't got smokeping on arp atm [16:18] oh i do have smokeping [16:19] just need to refresh target list. only anandtech seems to be slow atm [16:21] erk and comcast.net [16:22] comcast.net loosk like their site had issues [21:07] What are some free email providers that let you bring your own domain? [21:07] google domains used to let you [21:07] i'd just host my own though [21:08] so i have no idea :) [21:08] https://www.zoho.com/mail/ provides free mail [21:08] But I am looking for other providers [21:09] Google Apps you mean [21:09] i think that's what i mean [21:09] i have only herad about it [21:09] and that they were discontinuing it [21:09] Paid options only now [21:10] maybe you should just pay? [21:10] i dunno why someone would offer imap/smtp/etc for free? [21:10] webmail will have ads. [21:10] *** mhoran has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) [21:10] *** mhoran has joined #arpnetworks [21:10] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mhoran [22:41] *** mkb has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)