mkb: insecure means SMTP
even if it uses starttls and all
they would like you to only use Google clients
guess whether their website says this?
or even says anything useful at all? mercutio: what? mkb: just an indecipherable message that your client is insecure, sending you through a maze of settings attempting to figure out why tcpdump's obviously encrypted output is considered insecure mercutio: i got a bounced message today
because it thought it was like spam. i bounce messages to gmail all the time :/ mkb: no I'm getting failure during AUTH mercutio: and it's usually fine.
didn't even go in spam folder. have they been changing things? mkb: before message is presented
I think they have; I only found one stackoverflow article on the subject
and this problem's application seems random depending on what account is used (I think A/B testing) mercutio: hmm i just bounced a random message to my gmail and it worked
but i run my own mail server, and don't try using a smtp client to send from my gmail account mkb: not bounces mercutio: i don't even post from my gmail account, i just use it to have things conveniently on phone/tablet/etc mkb: I do the same thing, and this problem was really hard to debug because I don't actually have a gmail account
joys of tech support mercutio: oh it's easy to get a gmail account
i've just switched to having two of them
i used to find hotmail was the problem mail host
and i've never had hotmail :) mkb: google is quickly turning into one if they won't accept clients using anything other than the "Gmail API" mercutio: yay;)
do you use domainkeys, dkim, spf, ? mkb: only spf mercutio: try implementing dkim? mkb: no bounces for lack of it and not interested in another administrative headache
plus I've heard it and mailing lists don't get along
my only hint as to the real problem was google's list of insecure email clients including every client I've ever heard of mercutio: i got an email :)
err from news up_the_irons: for the googles: http://news.arpnetworks.com
mercutio: do you know where the templates are so i can like... add a title.. before the posts
i tried to find it last night, but had other things to do
brb mercutio: you mean title under admin-> settings? ***: LT has joined #arpnetworks up_the_irons: mercutio: oh :)
i can't be this dumb... how the fuck do you add a new site to Google Analytics?! I see all my existing ones.. fuck...
finally found it... ***: Guest62184 has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) mhoran: That website is terrible. mike-burns: All of Google's Web sites are terrible.
They should finally admit that they need to hire a UX person. brycec: Every single one of news' emails ended up in my Gmail spam folder
"Why is this message in Spam? It's similar to messages that were detected by our spam filters."
btw, when will it be going https?
and also up_the_irons you'll need to update the arpnetworks SPF, or set it up to mail through one of the existing mail relays (mail, mail2)
(I gather you decided not to re-use zeit, awesome) ***: LT has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
toeshred has quit IRC (Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1) mercutio: brycec: he has soft fail. brycec: I know
But a pass >> fail ;) mercutio: soft fail is like having nothing, sort of.
and zeit had old libraries. it seems it likes having very new stuff. brycec: It's still likely to count against the message during spam filtering, even if only by 1 point
I'm not surprised mercutio: with spamassassin it's nowhere near 1 point. brycec: zeit is just Debian -stable ;)
Does SA check SPF these days? Last I ran SA was pre-SPF
(before SPF was a thing) mercutio: yeah debian stable is kind of outdated, i thought it was better these days.
uhh brycec: Not this close to testing/jessie's release mercutio: it's not high enough to mark on my email ***: tooth has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) mercutio: SPF_FAIL=0.001 brycec: LOL mercutio: that's what my setup seems to have.
i had to check my spam folder
it's not mean to count at all really. it's meant to be the same as not having a record.
spf's main point these days seems to be to stop people saying that they're you, so hard fail is kind of necessary brycec: Agreed. If only more relays would actually use it.
I have -all on my SPF, but still get bounces from mail pretending to be me mercutio: so it seems ubuntu precise uses glibc 2.15, ubuntu trusty uses 2.19, arch uses 2.20, and debian uses 2.13?
http://www.gnu.org/software/libc/
and it seems 2.13 is 2011-02-04 brycec: Yep yep and yep, confirmed all of those versions mercutio: so yeah they are kind of behind
for some reason the meteor thingy had some binary in it that wanted glibc 2.14 brycec: Wasn't Debian running eglibc for awhile
ew precompiled? mercutio: yeah i think so
well it's shifted to the normal node.js stuff now
but it still wanted more recent package than ubuntu trusty had
i reckon glibc is way too hug
uge brycec: way too huge
twss BryceBot: Okay! twss! 'way too huge' mercutio: there were just new security vulnerabilitys today. brycec: (there are always...) mercutio: there's musl, which seems like an interesting libc replacement, but not compatible with lots of things etc.
and i don't really know if musl is focused on security and being full featured.
but at least it's MIT licensed. brycec: Looks like jessie comes with glibc 2.19
(and squeeze was 2.11) mercutio: 2.19 is fine
it was released this year
i don't think much even changes brycec: And yes, Debian did used to run eglibc, starting about 5 years ago mercutio: yeah eglibc was a fork when glibc wasn't accept patches afaik brycec: Yep pretty much
but eglibc is now dead
so they're coming back to glibc mercutio: maybe glibc is accepting patches again brycec: starting after jessie mercutio: i prefered libc5 :) brycec: Most likely. Decent, short write-up http://blog.aurel32.net/175 mercutio: glibc 2.20 needs linux 2.6.32 brycec: And wheezy runs 3.2.0
so no issue there mercutio: just seems surprising
there's some locking file descriptor extension, bt i'm not finding much else interesting
s390 etc stuff isn't interesting to me :) ***: tooth has joined #arpnetworks mercutio: http://qz.com/298635/these-programming-languages-will-earn-you-the-most-money/ davantalus: tldr: Ruby or iOS. mercutio: actually something else was saying that python was still a better choice.
because ruby is kind of a fad BryceBot: That's what she said!! mercutio: and apple have done a new programming language for new development
really a good programmer cares about the code more than the tools ***: toeshred has joined #arpnetworks mike-burns: I have no idea what it means for Ruby to be a fad.
So I'll keep my Ruby job. brycec: Rails definitely seems to have been a fad. It was all the rage for a few years, and now nobody really talks about it. mike-burns: Sure, same with C I guess. brycec: I dunno, I see lots of new projects starting in C. Not so much with Rails
(Plus C underlies so much anyways... Wouldn't surprise me if Ruby is written in C ;) ) mike-burns: Yeah but nobody really talks about it. brycec: Not in #arpnetworks maybe ;) mike-burns: Rails isn't hyped anymore, I'll give you that. -: brycec runs with a C-writing crowd, among other languages acf_: is there anything besides golang that doesn't use libc? mike-burns: Does llvm? acf_: yes brycec: FYI golang binaries still link to libc acf_: do they? :P
I had thought they handled syscalls directly brycec: linux-vdso.so.1 => (0x00007fff98dff000) libpthread.so.0 => /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libpthread.so.0 (0x00007fe2fba3b000) libc.so.6 => /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libc.so.6 (0x00007fe2fb6af000) /lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2 (0x00007fe2fbc62000)
That's from a random go-compiled binary up_the_irons: brycec: ah yes, i'll use mail2
brycec: we actually could use zeit in the end. damn binary packages. zeit isn't new enough.
brycec: it'll be https once i move it to one of our servers. not sure if anyone noticed, but it's running on Vultr ;)
all ya niggas talking shit about Ruby / Rails being a fad, let me just say i've done F/T and contracting work in Ruby / Rails / Sinatra for nearly a decade now (started in 2005). it's hardly a fad. brycec: s/could/couldn't/ BryceBot: <up_the_irons> brycec: we actually couldn't use zeit in the end. damn binary packages. zeit isn't new enough. brycec: I noticed the unusual IP, but I don't know all of ARP's blocks :p
up_the_irons: Is there much in the way of new Rails projects?
No doubt that there will be work for awhile, but the gauge for whether something is a fad in programming is whether new projects are started based on/around it mercutio: i've got a friend who is heavily into rails, but i think it's still pretty niche
erk i join ruby and rails in my mind, and i have no idea if he was using ruby or ruby on rails up_the_irons: brycec: ah ok mercutio: objective c was a fad :) up_the_irons: brycec: tnx for the correction mike-burns: I work at a Rails consultancy. We've grown by 4 in the past year. Take that as you will. mercutio: it only got big after apple forced it
i player with objective c like 16 years ago
and no-one was using it up_the_irons: brycec: not sure about new rails projects. for new stuff, i'm seeing more in node.js, meteor, etc....
mail from news.arpnetworks.com should now no longer go into spam mercutio: are you smarthosting it? up_the_irons: relayhost
moded main.cf a bit, that's all mercutio: yeh that's smarthost. up_the_irons: ah mercutio: it wasn't going into spam folder for me before anyway brycec: ew main.cf, that's sendmail
(right? now I'm thinking it's postfix) mercutio: it's postfix brycec: Well at least it's not sendmail mercutio: i prefer postfix to exim
weird i'm having network issues to news.arpnetworks.com
starting at ntt
for some reason i left a trace running before up_the_irons: of course, it's on Vultr... (oh burn) mercutio: but it's fine to arp
that also goes via ntt up_the_irons: cuz arp rocks
;) mercutio: xe-3-0-1.ar1.lax2.us.as4436.gtt.net
hmm arp doesn't thi that port
oh it's gtt not ntt
it changes from ntt to gtt
so yeah los angeles is bad as well as dallas for vultr :) up_the_irons: la doesn't even have ipv6 mercutio: dallas does i think
and they're both gtt up_the_irons: i mean for vultr
gtt has ipv6 mercutio: for vultr
yeah dallas does
they just haven't implemented it yet for some reason
did you drop nlayer? up_the_irons: no mercutio: hmm i haven't got smokeping on arp atm
oh i do have smokeping
just need to refresh target list. only anandtech seems to be slow atm
erk and comcast.net
comcast.net loosk like their site had issues mnathani: What are some free email providers that let you bring your own domain? mercutio: google domains used to let you
i'd just host my own though
so i have no idea :) mnathani: https://www.zoho.com/mail/ provides free mail
But I am looking for other providers
Google Apps you mean mercutio: i think that's what i mean
i have only herad about it
and that they were discontinuing it mnathani: Paid options only now mercutio: maybe you should just pay?
i dunno why someone would offer imap/smtp/etc for free?
webmail will have ads. ***: mhoran has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
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