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| Who | What | When |
|---|---|---|
| mkb | apparently gmail will declare your email client to be insecure
insecure means SMTP even if it uses starttls and all they would like you to only use Google clients guess whether their website says this? or even says anything useful at all? | [00:00] |
| mercutio | what? | [00:02] |
| mkb | just an indecipherable message that your client is insecure, sending you through a maze of settings attempting to figure out why tcpdump's obviously encrypted output is considered insecure | [00:02] |
| mercutio | i got a bounced message today
because it thought it was like spam. i bounce messages to gmail all the time :/ | [00:02] |
| mkb | no I'm getting failure during AUTH | [00:02] |
| mercutio | and it's usually fine.
didn't even go in spam folder. have they been changing things? | [00:02] |
| mkb | before message is presented
I think they have; I only found one stackoverflow article on the subject and this problem's application seems random depending on what account is used (I think A/B testing) | [00:03] |
| mercutio | hmm i just bounced a random message to my gmail and it worked
but i run my own mail server, and don't try using a smtp client to send from my gmail account | [00:04] |
| mkb | not bounces | [00:04] |
| mercutio | i don't even post from my gmail account, i just use it to have things conveniently on phone/tablet/etc | [00:04] |
| mkb | I do the same thing, and this problem was really hard to debug because I don't actually have a gmail account
joys of tech support | [00:04] |
| mercutio | oh it's easy to get a gmail account
i've just switched to having two of them i used to find hotmail was the problem mail host and i've never had hotmail :) | [00:05] |
| mkb | google is quickly turning into one if they won't accept clients using anything other than the "Gmail API" | [00:06] |
| mercutio | yay;)
do you use domainkeys, dkim, spf, ? | [00:06] |
| mkb | only spf | [00:07] |
| mercutio | try implementing dkim? | [00:07] |
| mkb | no bounces for lack of it and not interested in another administrative headache
plus I've heard it and mailing lists don't get along my only hint as to the real problem was google's list of insecure email clients including every client I've ever heard of | [00:07] |
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| mercutio | i got an email :)
err from news | [00:40] |
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| up_the_irons | for the googles: http://news.arpnetworks.com
mercutio: do you know where the templates are so i can like... add a title.. before the posts i tried to find it last night, but had other things to do brb | [01:02] |
| mercutio | you mean title under admin-> settings? | [01:05] |
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| *** | LT has joined #arpnetworks | [01:38] |
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| up_the_irons | mercutio: oh :) | [02:03] |
| i can't be this dumb... how the fuck do you add a new site to Google Analytics?! I see all my existing ones.. fuck...
finally found it... | [02:15] | |
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| *** | Guest62184 has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) | [03:12] |
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| mhoran | That website is terrible. | [05:48] |
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| mike-burns | All of Google's Web sites are terrible.
They should finally admit that they need to hire a UX person. | [06:31] |
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| brycec | Every single one of news' emails ended up in my Gmail spam folder
"Why is this message in Spam? It's similar to messages that were detected by our spam filters." btw, when will it be going https? and also up_the_irons you'll need to update the arpnetworks SPF, or set it up to mail through one of the existing mail relays (mail, mail2) (I gather you decided not to re-use zeit, awesome) | [08:35] |
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| mercutio | brycec: he has soft fail. | [11:07] |
| brycec | I know
But a pass >> fail ;) | [11:07] |
| mercutio | soft fail is like having nothing, sort of.
and zeit had old libraries. it seems it likes having very new stuff. | [11:07] |
| brycec | It's still likely to count against the message during spam filtering, even if only by 1 point
I'm not surprised | [11:10] |
| mercutio | with spamassassin it's nowhere near 1 point. | [11:10] |
| brycec | zeit is just Debian -stable ;)
Does SA check SPF these days? Last I ran SA was pre-SPF (before SPF was a thing) | [11:10] |
| mercutio | yeah debian stable is kind of outdated, i thought it was better these days.
uhh | [11:10] |
| brycec | Not this close to testing/jessie's release | [11:11] |
| mercutio | it's not high enough to mark on my email | [11:11] |
| *** | tooth has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) | [11:12] |
| mercutio | SPF_FAIL=0.001 | [11:12] |
| brycec | LOL | [11:12] |
| mercutio | that's what my setup seems to have.
i had to check my spam folder it's not mean to count at all really. it's meant to be the same as not having a record. spf's main point these days seems to be to stop people saying that they're you, so hard fail is kind of necessary | [11:12] |
| brycec | Agreed. If only more relays would actually use it.
I have -all on my SPF, but still get bounces from mail pretending to be me | [11:17] |
| mercutio | so it seems ubuntu precise uses glibc 2.15, ubuntu trusty uses 2.19, arch uses 2.20, and debian uses 2.13?
http://www.gnu.org/software/libc/ and it seems 2.13 is 2011-02-04 | [11:17] |
| brycec | Yep yep and yep, confirmed all of those versions | [11:20] |
| mercutio | so yeah they are kind of behind
for some reason the meteor thingy had some binary in it that wanted glibc 2.14 | [11:20] |
| brycec | Wasn't Debian running eglibc for awhile
ew precompiled? | [11:21] |
| mercutio | yeah i think so
well it's shifted to the normal node.js stuff now but it still wanted more recent package than ubuntu trusty had i reckon glibc is way too hug uge | [11:21] |
| brycec | way too huge
twss | [11:22] |
| BryceBot | Okay! twss! 'way too huge' | [11:22] |
| mercutio | there were just new security vulnerabilitys today. | [11:22] |
| brycec | (there are always...) | [11:22] |
| mercutio | there's musl, which seems like an interesting libc replacement, but not compatible with lots of things etc.
and i don't really know if musl is focused on security and being full featured. but at least it's MIT licensed. | [11:23] |
| brycec | Looks like jessie comes with glibc 2.19
(and squeeze was 2.11) | [11:26] |
| mercutio | 2.19 is fine
it was released this year i don't think much even changes | [11:26] |
| brycec | And yes, Debian did used to run eglibc, starting about 5 years ago | [11:26] |
| mercutio | yeah eglibc was a fork when glibc wasn't accept patches afaik | [11:27] |
| brycec | Yep pretty much
but eglibc is now dead so they're coming back to glibc | [11:27] |
| mercutio | maybe glibc is accepting patches again | [11:27] |
| brycec | starting after jessie | [11:27] |
| mercutio | i prefered libc5 :) | [11:27] |
| brycec | Most likely. Decent, short write-up http://blog.aurel32.net/175 | [11:27] |
| mercutio | glibc 2.20 needs linux 2.6.32 | [11:28] |
| brycec | And wheezy runs 3.2.0
so no issue there | [11:28] |
| mercutio | just seems surprising
there's some locking file descriptor extension, bt i'm not finding much else interesting s390 etc stuff isn't interesting to me :) | [11:28] |
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| mercutio | http://qz.com/298635/these-programming-languages-will-earn-you-the-most-money/ | [12:11] |
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| davantalus | tldr: Ruby or iOS. | [12:26] |
| mercutio | actually something else was saying that python was still a better choice.
because ruby is kind of a fad | [12:31] |
| BryceBot | That's what she said!! | [12:31] |
| mercutio | and apple have done a new programming language for new development
really a good programmer cares about the code more than the tools | [12:31] |
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| mike-burns | I have no idea what it means for Ruby to be a fad.
So I'll keep my Ruby job. | [14:38] |
| brycec | Rails definitely seems to have been a fad. It was all the rage for a few years, and now nobody really talks about it. | [14:39] |
| mike-burns | Sure, same with C I guess. | [14:39] |
| brycec | I dunno, I see lots of new projects starting in C. Not so much with Rails
(Plus C underlies so much anyways... Wouldn't surprise me if Ruby is written in C ;) ) | [14:40] |
| mike-burns | Yeah but nobody really talks about it. | [14:40] |
| brycec | Not in #arpnetworks maybe ;) | [14:41] |
| mike-burns | Rails isn't hyped anymore, I'll give you that. | [14:41] |
| brycec | brycec runs with a C-writing crowd, among other languages | [14:42] |
| acf_ | is there anything besides golang that doesn't use libc? | [14:42] |
| mike-burns | Does llvm? | [14:43] |
| acf_ | yes | [14:44] |
| brycec | FYI golang binaries still link to libc | [14:44] |
| acf_ | do they? :P
I had thought they handled syscalls directly | [14:44] |
| brycec | linux-vdso.so.1 => (0x00007fff98dff000) libpthread.so.0 => /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libpthread.so.0 (0x00007fe2fba3b000) libc.so.6 => /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libc.so.6 (0x00007fe2fb6af000) /lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2 (0x00007fe2fbc62000)
That's from a random go-compiled binary | [14:44] |
| up_the_irons | brycec: ah yes, i'll use mail2
brycec: we actually could use zeit in the end. damn binary packages. zeit isn't new enough. brycec: it'll be https once i move it to one of our servers. not sure if anyone noticed, but it's running on Vultr ;) all ya niggas talking shit about Ruby / Rails being a fad, let me just say i've done F/T and contracting work in Ruby / Rails / Sinatra for nearly a decade now (started in 2005). it's hardly a fad. | [14:57] |
| brycec | s/could/couldn't/ | [15:06] |
| BryceBot | <up_the_irons> brycec: we actually couldn't use zeit in the end. damn binary packages. zeit isn't new enough. | [15:06] |
| brycec | I noticed the unusual IP, but I don't know all of ARP's blocks :p
up_the_irons: Is there much in the way of new Rails projects? No doubt that there will be work for awhile, but the gauge for whether something is a fad in programming is whether new projects are started based on/around it | [15:06] |
| mercutio | i've got a friend who is heavily into rails, but i think it's still pretty niche
erk i join ruby and rails in my mind, and i have no idea if he was using ruby or ruby on rails | [15:22] |
| up_the_irons | brycec: ah ok | [15:22] |
| mercutio | objective c was a fad :) | [15:22] |
| up_the_irons | brycec: tnx for the correction | [15:22] |
| mike-burns | I work at a Rails consultancy. We've grown by 4 in the past year. Take that as you will. | [15:23] |
| mercutio | it only got big after apple forced it
i player with objective c like 16 years ago and no-one was using it | [15:23] |
| up_the_irons | brycec: not sure about new rails projects. for new stuff, i'm seeing more in node.js, meteor, etc....
mail from news.arpnetworks.com should now no longer go into spam | [15:23] |
| mercutio | are you smarthosting it? | [15:24] |
| up_the_irons | relayhost
moded main.cf a bit, that's all | [15:29] |
| mercutio | yeh that's smarthost. | [15:30] |
| up_the_irons | ah | [15:30] |
| mercutio | it wasn't going into spam folder for me before anyway | [15:30] |
| brycec | ew main.cf, that's sendmail
(right? now I'm thinking it's postfix) | [15:32] |
| mercutio | it's postfix | [15:38] |
| brycec | Well at least it's not sendmail | [15:42] |
| mercutio | i prefer postfix to exim | [15:52] |
| weird i'm having network issues to news.arpnetworks.com
starting at ntt for some reason i left a trace running before | [16:06] | |
| up_the_irons | of course, it's on Vultr... (oh burn) | [16:06] |
| mercutio | but it's fine to arp
that also goes via ntt | [16:06] |
| up_the_irons | cuz arp rocks
;) | [16:06] |
| mercutio | xe-3-0-1.ar1.lax2.us.as4436.gtt.net
hmm arp doesn't thi that port oh it's gtt not ntt it changes from ntt to gtt so yeah los angeles is bad as well as dallas for vultr :) | [16:07] |
| up_the_irons | la doesn't even have ipv6 | [16:10] |
| mercutio | dallas does i think
and they're both gtt | [16:10] |
| up_the_irons | i mean for vultr
gtt has ipv6 | [16:10] |
| mercutio | for vultr
yeah dallas does they just haven't implemented it yet for some reason did you drop nlayer? | [16:10] |
| up_the_irons | no | [16:15] |
| mercutio | hmm i haven't got smokeping on arp atm
oh i do have smokeping just need to refresh target list. only anandtech seems to be slow atm erk and comcast.net comcast.net loosk like their site had issues | [16:16] |
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| mnathani | What are some free email providers that let you bring your own domain? | [21:07] |
| mercutio | google domains used to let you
i'd just host my own though so i have no idea :) | [21:07] |
| mnathani | https://www.zoho.com/mail/ provides free mail
But I am looking for other providers Google Apps you mean | [21:08] |
| mercutio | i think that's what i mean
i have only herad about it and that they were discontinuing it | [21:09] |
| mnathani | Paid options only now | [21:09] |
| mercutio | maybe you should just pay?
i dunno why someone would offer imap/smtp/etc for free? webmail will have ads. | [21:10] |
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