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| bashas has joined #arpnetworks | [11:47] | |
| bashas | hello everyone
i'm asking for a good windows vps provider any suggestions? | [11:47] |
| mnathani | bashas: budget? | [11:48] |
| bashas | no limits
but i need a good reviewed one with a good spec | [11:48] |
| mnathani | check VPS offers at: http://www.webhostingtalk.com/forumdisplay.php?s=1c5bb91bee9812bf871e252e57078dda&f=104
'good' can mean different things to different people :-) | [11:49] |
| bashas | yes :) i know
but anyway, tnx dude for ur help checking the forum | [11:49] |
| mnathani | you are better off asking stuff like: so much RAM, managed vs Un managed etc ? Disk Space, Location | [11:50] |
| bashas | what's managed an unmanaged? a new term to me? btw i'm a web developer
and i need to host a project, it has few hits daily, but do some processing every few mins using C# threads | [11:51] |
| mnathani | if you have to ask, you probably need managed
unmanaged is like no software support from the hohst you need to take care of all software install and config | [11:52] |
| bashas | the project aim is to download some html pages and parse them, and extract data from it and put into a sql db | [11:53] |
| mnathani | host will only support underlying network and virtualization, power etc | [11:53] |
| bashas | unmanaged is a shared windows u mean, right?
but managed is a full windows machine with total control, am i right | [11:53] |
| mnathani | the box will be shared, you will have total control on your own instance
admin / root access https://www.liquidweb.com/storm/vps.html those guys are pretty good | [11:54] |
| bashas | i know they are shared, one server hosts few Virtual Machines | [11:55] |
| mnathani | right
anyway got to go | [11:55] |
| bashas | ok np bro.
thanks very much i'll try to google and understand the deep details of manage and unmanaged | [11:55] |
| brycec | Managed: The host/provider "manages" the system, installing updates, changing settings, all the server admin stuff for you.
Unmanaged: You're responsible for maintaining the server, keeping software up to date, etc. ie. your home computer is unmanaged. Whereas in a corporate environment with corporate IT, your work computer is "managed" Hope that clears things up | [11:59] |
| BryceBot | That's what she said!! | [12:00] |
| bashas | brycec: very useful
thanks dude :) | [12:01] |
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| mercutio | is someone trying to get rid of windows users? :)
i suppose if someone asks if they need manager or unmanaged they need managed. oh mnathani said that :) | [12:17] |
| brycec | lol
I dare say that a whole VPS for a small site is overkill too but I'm not too experienced in the windows hosting arena... maybe there are providers that won't allow you to run your own program periodically? (Regardless - sounds like something that a LAMP stack could easily do) Man - when a SAN runs out of disk space, servers really don't handle that well (for loose definitions of SAN and server) (KVM machines with NFS-backed storage, to be exact) | [12:30] |
| m0unds | if it's just for a site, azure sites works well enough
there's other stuff that can run asp in a similar containerized env too | [12:36] |
| brycec | Azure has a free tier too, as I recall | [12:37] |
| m0unds | yeah, that's how i played with it
supports code repo autodeployment too (ala heroku) | [12:37] |
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| mercutio | i think background stuff could be annoying on shared windows hosting
i'm paranoid about shared web hosting myself | [13:10] |
| m0unds | background stuff?
i finished building my "less complicated" fermenter controller today | [13:17] |
| mercutio | he said about c# threads in background or something? | [13:22] |
| m0unds | oh, probably similar to background php processes or whatever | [13:23] |
| brycec | I figure it's roughly equivalent to a cron job | [13:25] |
| m0unds | yeah
just executing at some interval | [13:25] |
| mercutio | does shared hosting normally let you do that? | [13:26] |
| hazardous | hazardous waves
shared windows hosting is infuriating to deal with | [13:27] |
| m0unds | no idea, haven't ever used windows shared stuff | [13:27] |
| hazardous | i really really dislike shared anything with asp.net
because of trust level/privs and most shared hosts don't like to give full trust and for a lot of things, you have to contact the host tend to kind of just run it in a vm because effort | [13:27] |
| m0unds | probably similar cost-wise as vm stuff keeps getting cheaper | [13:30] |
| hazardous | the problem is that it tends to restrict your choice of hosts
because windows licencing is opening schrodinger's dvd case | [13:30] |
| brycec | (Every shared lunix host I've had lets me schedule cron jobs, fwiw) | [13:32] |
| hazardous | that being said.. i do have a shared hosting account on a linux place i like, because they let me run my own apache/nginx/rails/python server like flask or something, and just let me use a port to reverse proxy it from frontend loadbalancer
and allow compilers/installing binaries/etc but that's literally the only 1 single linux shared host i know that does that, everything else is terrible i hate cpanel/plesk/etc with a passion cpanel still claims to support python and ruby on rails, which is a massive, hilarious lie tbh i feel like the adoption of non-php web languages is partially because of control panels (and a bit on the languages themselves) php is drag and drop, and visit url that has never been, nor will it in the near future be the case for nodejs, python, ruby, [...] and without ssh access, in general, it's borderline impossible to run on shared hosting | [13:32] |
| staticsafe | yeah
PHP apps are stupid easy to deploy | [13:35] |
| hazardous | as dumb as it is, being able to simply upload index.php and be able to visit index.php
if you try to explain the concept of routes to someone that "just wants a forum" many people don't seem to be able to parse the concept of "upload index.php, and you can visit /login" so not supporting apache's single-file .htaccess rewrite thing (which is kind of inefficient since it seems to recurse every subdirectory and whatnot) as far as most of the people i deal with know, .htaccess is black magic | [13:36] |
| BryceBot | That's what she said!! | [13:38] |
| hazardous | the thing that pisses me off the most is that really shitty shared hosting providers are not helping
like cpanel hosts that lie about having python support and then someone tries to "install a python webapp" and it fails miserably hazardous hugs BryceBot | [13:38] |
| m0unds | by python support, they mean the host has python installed
not that you can use it bahaha | [13:40] |
| mercutio | cpanel is "the standard"
it's pretty disgusting yes. | [13:41] |
| hazardous | Posted 1 year ago
Why does CPanel continue ignoring requests for supporting Python/Django laugh | [13:41] |
| mercutio | i was surprised by how long it took me to get smokeping working with nginx
nginx with fastcgi is a bit confusing. | [13:41] |
| hazardous | at least for php, nginx + fcgi is 4 lines
not so much actual cgi-bin applications | [13:42] |
| mercutio | but i like the idea of micro vps with nginx/php/etc all seperate.
this is perl you need to use fcgiwrap | [13:43] |
| hazardous | not so much actual cgi-bin applications <- i've never actually had to run something cgi/perl
like for web i think that was common maybe before i was born but idk | [13:43] |
| m0unds | there's a few ways to plug that support into nginx | [13:43] |
| hazardous | it's just really foreign to me as a concept | [13:43] |
| mercutio | it was easier on ubuntu than arch linux tbh
mod_perl sucks | [13:43] |
| hazardous | reminds me
what happened to gentoo | [13:43] |
| m0unds | i used thttpd as a cgi-proxy years ago | [13:44] |
| hazardous | wasn't it all the nerd-rage a decade ago | [13:44] |
| m0unds | behind nginx | [13:44] |
| hazardous | everyone seems to have moved to arch or something from what i can gather | [13:44] |
| mercutio | i think it's still around
m0unds: i've been using lighttpd for ages, but thought i'd try nginx because nginx is adding spdy support and fastopen support fastopen is really easy to enable in nginx. in lighttpd i have a source hack. | [13:44] |
| hazardous | nginx pisses me off with their commercial product offering | [13:45] |
| mercutio | hazardous: why? | [13:45] |
| m0unds | they have a commercial product offering?
haha | [13:45] |
| hazardous | i need the ability to kick out unresponsive backends for reverse proxying | [13:45] |
| mercutio | m0unds: yeah. | [13:45] |
| hazardous | this is commercial product only
minimum few thousand a year required support contract | [13:45] |
| m0unds | ah | [13:45] |
| mercutio | they're still putting mroe effort into their open source offering than anyone else. | [13:45] |
| hazardous | there is no way i can buy like "just want this module"
i don't want support i just literally want one config option enabled i don't need SLA, i don't need tickets but that's totally not available to me i would happily pay like 50-100/yr just for the ability to use a few extra config options but a few thousand i can't afford defining backends to reverse proxy is free - doing anything else with them, like checking if they are online, setting randomization, removing or adding backends is a $$$$ feature only | [13:45] |
| mercutio | so backends can hang and it can't fix it?
isn't that spawnfcgi's job? | [13:46] |
| hazardous | i have this problem in that my backends are closed-source binaries that i don't have access to, and occasionally they die
i would like to run a script if one doesn't return or sends a 5xx i would also like to check periodically if they respond so now.. i use chinese nginx | [13:46] |
| mercutio | are you in china hazardous ? | [13:47] |
| hazardous | no
i'm in freedom-land | [13:47] |
| mercutio | canada? | [13:48] |
| hazardous | wow
close enough | [13:48] |
| brycec | Obviously kicking the backend can be scripted (kill $pid), so you're just missing the ability to query a specific backend directly? | [13:48] |
| mercutio | brycec: yeh how would he know which one to kill | [13:48] |
| hazardous | brycec: http://tengine.taobao.org/document/http_upstream_check.html | [13:48] |
| mercutio | i wonder what happened to dtrace coming to linux | [13:49] |
| hazardous | http://tengine.taobao.org/document/http_upstream_consistent_hash.html | [13:49] |
| mercutio | i kind of like the idea of tracing normal programs | [13:49] |
| hazardous | these are all bsaically nonexistent in free nginx | [13:50] |
| mercutio | and some kind of autodetection of weird behaviour | [13:50] |
| brycec | So it kicks it out of the nginx pool | [13:50] |
| mercutio | mercutio doesn't trust people to not screw up | [13:50] |
| brycec | brycec trusts people to screw up | [13:50] |
| hazardous | hazardous greps mercutio | [13:50] |
| mercutio | heh brycec | [13:50] |
| hazardous | screwing up is normal human behaviour | [13:51] |
| mercutio | error handling is often terrible on unix
actualyl with software in general | [13:51] |
| hazardous | brycec: even manually removing a backend temporarily in nginx is paid, iirc
without editing configs much less having proactive health checks that let you define "after x failures, drop this out, but readd it if it starts responding later on" | [13:51] |
| mercutio | relayd can do that btw hazardous
if you have multiple servers | [13:51] |
| brycec | Yeah - I ran across a "need" (want, really) to do that and found it only came with money | [13:52] |
| hazardous | if you want a laugh, my primary web frontend has 9 VPNs running on top of each other | [13:52] |
| mercutio | but if one out of 4 backends is doing it or something, and it returns 5xx on one of them i dunno how it'd handle that | [13:52] |
| brycec | One could easily kick/restart the backend with your own script though, but it does nothing for nginx | [13:52] |
| mercutio | if someone wrote a backend handler that also did performance monitoring etc
they could probably sell it | [13:53] |
| hazardous | capturing the 5xx and identifying where it came from is the thing for me, because i just want to drop it out of my uplinks for a while until my watchdog processes notice and restart it
tengine's upstream_check thing lets you set things like timeout msec, expecting 200 OK or 302 or something, and checks ssl handshakes by default all backends are offline until they pass their first check i really wish i could just use stock nginx, i'd be happy to support their efforts and whatnot, but it's just not feasible for anything not business | [13:53] |
| mercutio | what about sticking a wrapper program around your binarys | [13:56] |
| hazardous | define wrapper program
[they are windows binaries that listen on a port, running on remote hosts] | [13:56] |
| mercutio | runs your cgi script, sees that it behaves
has an abort if it takes too long, or if it does 5xx. | [13:57] |
| hazardous | i have 1,539 backends | [13:57] |
| mercutio | oh | [13:57] |
| hazardous | lol; | [13:57] |
| mercutio | relayd should handle that then | [13:57] |
| BryceBot | That's what she said!! | [13:57] |
| hazardous | the thing is.. it also returns HTTP 200 for failed requests | [13:57] |
| mercutio | which is bsd hmm. | [13:57] |
| hazardous | with error text in the body | [13:57] |
| mercutio | oh
that's annoying :) | [13:57] |
| hazardous | so i also check if it returns a XML response that contains 'failed_err' | [13:58] |
| mercutio | you could do your own monitoring script and take them out | [13:58] |
| hazardous | there's a few failure states, one of them is named "SHOULD_NEVER_HAPPEN_RACE_CONDITION_TRAP"
i've encountered that af ew times | [13:58] |
| mercutio | are all the backends the same, you're just load balancing to them? | [13:58] |
| hazardous | load balancing to them across vpn, every 150 or so is a different country, some are domestic-internet-only, some are only accessible from one isp
tl;dr asia | [13:59] |
| mercutio | i think your situation is complex enough that it warrants coding for it. | [13:59] |
| hazardous | fun thing of the day, i was told that in south korea, reverse dns is illegal unless i have a south korean business licence, and it can take up to 6 months to complete the application process for a single PTR record, and that delegation of NS/PTR/CNAME is not allowed | [14:00] |
| mercutio | wow. | [14:00] |
| hazardous | all PTR requests have to go through KRNIC
if you've ever wondered why almost no south korean ip has a PTR, well, that might explain it maybe | [14:00] |
| mercutio | china doesn't have PTR either ? | [14:01] |
| hazardous | china occasionally has isps that have applied for PTR for their whole netblock
none of which have forward dns, most of them completely invalid lol this is basically standard for all of asia my upstream in vietnam assigns datacenter colo, dynamic adsl, dialup, voip, and iptv out of the same subnet i can pull a dynamic adsl ip from colo, from standard dhcp pool all static IPs have the reverse dns 'dynamic.vdc.vn', and this isn't editable they have several /16's that consist entirely of 'dynamic.vdc.vn' exactly, not unique ptr per ip | [14:01] |
| theres also the whole "having to bribe customs and shipping officials or else your hardware gets stolen" thing | [14:08] | |
| mercutio | wow.
has anyone tried the new apache httpd? err new openbsd httpd | [14:17] |
| brycec | lol way to goof that :P | [14:19] |
| mercutio | i'm not exactly sure why openbsd is doing their own httpd
back in thttpd/boa/lighttpd/etc days there were heaps of them i jumped from boa to lighttpd myself | [14:19] |
| BryceBot | That's what she said!! | [14:19] |
| brycec | Same reason they do their own everything - to keep full control over it | [14:19] |
| hazardous | openbsd made a httpd? | [14:26] |
| mercutio | yeh based on relayd it seems. | [14:26] |
| brycec | So more pf.conf-style syntax! | [14:26] |
| mercutio | looks like it's pretty basic
they also made their own smtpd i like relayd. | [14:26] |
| brycec | httpd is extremely basic at this point | [14:26] |
| hazardous | all i want/need is static file serving from a dir | [14:26] |
| brycec | OpenSMTPD is pretty great | [14:27] |
| mercutio | sendmailis prettty bad | [14:27] |
| staticsafe | opensmtpd is awesome, i wish there debian/ubuntu packages for it
its in sid but thats about it | [14:27] |
| mercutio | there needs to be linux kernel with openbsd userland :) | [14:28] |
| hazardous | that exists
it's called windows :) what's the "in" orchestration tool nowadays puppet? ansible? it seems to change weekly | [14:29] |
| brycec | puppet and chef are the big "in" ones from what I can see
But there's still a lot to be said about using the right tool for the job such as ansible in my case | [14:33] |
| staticsafe | ansible <3 | [14:36] |
| twobithacker | ansible++ | [14:39] |
| brycec | ansible++ | [14:42] |
| RandalSchwartz | ansible has some interesting advantages
we interviewed them for floss along with puppet, chef, cfengine, saltstack... :) | [14:42] |
| brycec | I needed something to do some basic script-able tasks, without reinventing the wheel myself. Ansible gives me that and a bit more. I was up and running in ~minutes, rather than the overhead of chef or puppet. | [14:44] |
| hazardous | so the nerd portion is ansible
i don't want massive overhead, custom daemons, etc | [14:45] |
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| mnathani | hazardous: reading the scrollback, what was that shared linux host you found that let you run your own web server? | [16:13] |
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| This looks like a really cool position: https://ams-ix.net/about/careers--2/project-stagiair-noc | [17:18] | |
| ............ (idle for 57mn) | ||
| mercutio | you going to apply mnathani ? | [18:15] |
| mnathani | mercutio: if only I met the requirements
:-) | [18:16] |
| mercutio | i don't think it had many requirements?
it sounded like it'd be a bit boring though Following this project, the internee will follow/collaborate with AMS-IX network engineers to work on it's bsaically just a testing/scripting job from what i can see | [18:16] |
| mnathani | I suppose they would have some basic on the job training | [18:19] |
| mercutio | it's also probably in amsterdam
but yeah what they're doing sounds interesting | [18:19] |
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| i'm trying to add high dpi support to smokeping
i got the overview looking better.. but smokeping isn't saying the size for normal images when you go to the page :( so i can't just half it. | [19:19] | |
| acf_ | > isn't saying the size for normal images
isn't saying it where? | [19:22] |
| mercutio | in the html | [19:22] |
| acf_ | oh | [19:22] |
| mercutio | it's just referencing the made image
apparently the way to make high dpi work easiest, is you just define the size as half of the actual image size. and high dpi displays will show all the detial. | [19:22] |
| acf_ | got it
you could mess with the image generation I guess | [19:22] |
| BryceBot | That's what she said!! | [19:23] |
| acf_ | is it really? | [19:23] |
| mnathani | BryceBot: no | [19:23] |
| BryceBot | Oh, okay... I'm sorry. 'you could mess with the image generation I guess' | [19:23] |
| mercutio | i am doubling the rrdtool created image size
and want to touch smokeping as little as possible. | [19:23] |
| BryceBot | That's what she said!! | [19:24] |
| mercutio | BryceBot: no | [19:24] |
| BryceBot | Oh, okay... I'm sorry. 'and want to touch smokeping as little as possible.' | [19:24] |
| acf_ | does smokeping just invoke the rrdtool command with some args? | [19:24] |
| mercutio | i think so
# HIGH DPI $xs=$xs/2; $ys=$ys/2; that in the right place fixes the overview. | [19:24] |
| BryceBot | That's what she said!! | [19:25] |
| mercutio | with just doubling the size in the config. | [19:25] |
| mnathani | BryceBot: no | [19:25] |
| BryceBot | Oh, okay... I'm sorry. 'that in the right place fixes the overview.' | [19:25] |
| acf_ | because the overview defines the size explicitly in the html? | [19:26] |
| mercutio | it's perl generated html
and overview does yes. but detail doesn't. i could try and understand the code more.. | [19:27] |
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| acf_ | mercutio: I'm editing .pm files in /usr/share/perl5/Smokeping
but nothing seems to happen | [19:35] |
| mercutio | got it | [19:35] |
| acf_ | what did you do? | [19:35] |
| mercutio | you have to restart fcgiwrap
i found that $xs{''} is used somewhere else and added in width and height with that i haven't done much perl | [19:35] |
| acf_ | cool | [19:36] |
| mercutio | what's the difference between $xs and $xs{''}
i think the smokeping code is messy :) http://pastebin.com/tPWXf0an | [19:36] |
| acf_ | curly braces are used to access hash tables?
acf_ doesn't know perl either | [19:37] |
| mercutio | http://202.49.71.24:24/smokeping/smokeping.fcgi?target=Wider.google
that's got it running on it now i just need the text size bigger... | [19:38] |
| BryceBot | That's what she said!! | [19:38] |
| acf_ | looks super tiny on my monitor :P
it would be cool if rrdtool rendered svg instead of raster | [19:38] |
| mercutio | the text or graph?
i think rrdtool can i just wanted to start with something | [19:39] |
| acf_ | well, all of it | [19:39] |
| mercutio | you mean the graph is small or the text is small? | [19:40] |
| acf_ | the text mostly | [19:40] |
| mercutio | yeah the text is small for me too | [19:40] |
| acf_ | on my monitor, it's a bit blurry | [19:40] |
| mercutio | the text on the left is a little small, the text in the image is tiny | [19:40] |
| acf_ | probably because of the scaling | [19:40] |
| mercutio | i'm at 1440p
but yeah the text size needs to be bumped up | [19:40] |
| BryceBot | That's what she said!! | [19:40] |
| acf_ | I'm at 1024x768 atm | [19:41] |
| mercutio | do you use 100% zoom?
oh | [19:41] |
| acf_ | yea | [19:41] |
| mnathani | ouch at 1024x768 acf_ | [19:41] |
| mercutio | so yeah high dpi won't help you at all | [19:41] |
| BryceBot | That's what she said!! | [19:41] |
| acf_ | nope :P | [19:41] |
| mercutio | still it should work without high dpi too :)
it'll still be blurry a little probably | [19:41] |
| mnathani | I just moved down to 1 1080p display, from 2x 1280x1024 + 1x 1080p | [19:42] |
| mercutio | i have 4k+1440p | [19:42] |
| mnathani | Windows or *Nix? | [19:43] |
| mercutio | 1440p on windows and 4k on linux
chrome sucks on linux at 4k though text looks amazing though :) consoles are so ... nice... :) | [19:43] |
| mnathani | white banners on right and left? | [19:43] |
| mercutio | huh? | [19:43] |
| mnathani | how many inches on the 4k display? | [19:43] |
| mercutio | 28"
vs 27" for 1440p it hardly looks any bigger tbh they came down in cost a lot | [19:43] |
| mnathani | the white regions when you make the browser full screen | [19:44] |
| mercutio | i'm using radeon 7750 for video
oh i mean scrolling is slow and i haven't been able to make url bar big yet actually scrolling was slow on 1440p too it just got worse the video card should be fine... i think it's sucky open source drivers. | [19:44] |
| acf_ | I wonder if I just change all the .png s to .svg in smokeping...
arrg so it seems like certain edits to Graphs.pm aren't applying I change .png to .svg everywhere, but the page still renders with .png but if I put some garbage at the top of the file, it correctly fails to load | [19:47] |
| it worked!
changing all png and PNG to svg and SVG in my Smokeping.pl works it displays a bit big though... adding width="$xs{''}" height="$ys{''} in the right place fixes the size... example: http://kremvax.acfsys.net/smokeping.cgi?target=Remote.googledns mercutio: how does that look on your high-dpi monitor? | [19:58] | |
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| mercutio | the text looks a bit funny
i think the font is just crap umm rrdtool needs a parameter to generate svg oh it is svg does it autodetect? i should try on my 4k erk can this font be changed, it's really annoying | [20:17] |
| mnathani | mercutio: you try the proprietary driver? | [20:19] |
| mercutio | it looks fine
mnathani: nope i really don't want to use binary video driver. i suppose svg is probably better in general | [20:19] |
| hazardous | mnathani: just read scrollback; webfaction.com | [20:21] |
| mercutio | my pngs are smaller than your svg
by 40k vs 137k i wonder what it's like if making the size even bigger | [20:21] |
| acf_ | > < mercutio> does it autodetect?
'--imgformat','SVG', | [20:22] |
| mercutio | heh i can't read the text now | [20:24] |
| mnathani | hazardous: looks really good so far. I am surprised I have never heard of them before | [20:25] |
| acf_ | yea, can't figure out how to change the font
tried adding --font to the options, didn't work afaict | [20:31] |
| mercutio | http://202.49.71.24:24/smokeping/smokeping.fcgi?displaymode=n;start=2014-11-20%2014:28;end=now;target=Curl.garlic
this to me looks kind of how i want it | [20:31] |
| BryceBot | That's what she said!! | [20:32] |
| mercutio | now sure how it looks for other people
but yeah need to ramp up text size | [20:32] |
| BryceBot | That's what she said!! | [20:32] |
| mercutio | i want to change fonts too, i have this annoying 0
it looks like there's a little eye poking out in the middle to the right slightly | [20:32] |
| acf_ | yea
where does it get the fonts? I'm guessing not X11... | [20:32] |
| mercutio | i have no idea | [20:32] |
| acf_ | ok so --font does work
at least for changing the size but I don't know what other typefaces to give it besides monospace | [20:34] |
| mercutio | what's eps? | [20:34] |
| acf_ | enhanced post script
it's a vector format | [20:34] |
| mercutio | do browsers support it? | [20:34] |
| acf_ | I think chromium does
*encapsulated post script | [20:34] |
| mercutio | i hate it how they double all these things up
well more than double so there's more than one place to set font | [20:35] |
| acf_ | only two? | [20:35] |
| BryceBot | That's what she said!! | [20:35] |
| acf_ | that I could find
look for --imageformat * --imgformat I added '--font','DEFAULT:0:monospace', | [20:35] |
| m0unds | mercutio: this is how it looks for me: http://i.imgur.com/YG5DTMX.png | [20:36] |
| mercutio | i'm looking for --rigid
oh it is only double for that one wow the text on the left looks terrible | [20:36] |
| m0unds | that's on osx in chrome | [20:37] |
| mercutio | ERROR: unknown option '--font DEFAULT:28:Times'
oh | [20:37] |
| acf_ | "RRDtool uses Pango for its font handling"... cool | [20:37] |
| m0unds | font rendering is better in safari but i don't really use safari ever
don't ever use safari* | [20:38] |
| mercutio | damnit now it doesn't fit | [20:38] |
| acf_ | oh nice Times worked | [20:38] |
| mercutio | yeah it wokred
http://202.49.71.24:24/smokeping/smokeping.fcgi?target=Wider.gmail but it all wraps ! and it's all blurry not even blurry it's low res | [20:38] |
| acf_ | blur probably from dithering? | [20:39] |
| mercutio | maybe i should stop halving the size | [20:39] |
| acf_ | that's probably causing it | [20:40] |
| mercutio | can't the text scale?
http://202.49.71.24:24/smokeping/images/Wider/sip99_last_10800.svg even that looks terrible | [20:41] |
| acf_ | woah | [20:41] |
| mercutio | it's uhh yeah | [20:41] |
| acf_ | I think you're using a raster font.. | [20:41] |
| mercutio | that's what i meant
are you not? | [20:42] |
| acf_ | let me check... | [20:42] |
| mercutio | i should install the microsoft fonts? | [20:42] |
| acf_ | with Times: http://kremvax.acfsys.net/smokeping/images/Remote/googledns_last_10800.svg
Helvetica works too this is with Debian I don't think I installed anything special.. | [20:42] |
| mercutio | oh yours is way better
this is on server rather than desktop so probably has less fonts installed | [20:43] |
| acf_ | same here
no X11 on that box | [20:44] |
| mercutio | oh
i'm downloading the microsoft ones your one looks fine does everything support svg these days? | [20:44] |
| acf_ | I think so
find /usr/ | grep -i times turns up nothing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scalable_Vector_Graphics#Native_browser_support | [20:45] |
| BryceBot | Scalable Vector Graphics :: Scalable Vector Graphics (SVG) is an XML-based vector image format for two-dimensional graphics with support for interactivity and animation. The SVG specification is an open standard developed by the World Wide Web Consortium (W3C) since 1999. SVG images and their behaviors are defined in XML text files. This means that they can be searched, indexed, scripted, and compressed. As XML files, SVG images can be created a | [20:46] |
| acf_ | IE9 + suppors SVG | [20:46] |
| mercutio | i don't care about ie i suppose :) | [20:46] |
| acf_ | everything else has supported svg for a long time | [20:46] |
| mercutio | ok
what version of windows did ie9 come in with? | [20:46] |
| acf_ | released March 14, 2011 | [20:47] |
| mercutio | /usr/share/fonts/TTF/times.ttf | [20:47] |
| acf_ | supported on Vista and above | [20:47] |
| mercutio | gah it still looks terrible | [20:47] |
| m0unds | haha
try sans serif? or serif? | [20:48] |
| mercutio | maybe i have to do something to register it? | [20:48] |
| RandalSchwartz | o/~ I shot the serif ... o/~ | [20:48] |
| m0unds | RandalSchwartz: aarrrggghhhh
hahahaha | [20:48] |
| acf_ | fontconfig?
I can't find Times or Helvetica anywhere... fc-list | grep -i times shows nothing maybe it's using DejaVuSerif instead? | [20:48] |
| mercutio | # fc-list | grep -i times | wc -l
52 # fc-list | grep -i dejavuserif | wc -l 8 how do i tell what it's calling rrdgraph with hmm | [20:50] |
| acf_ | DEFAULT:0:DejaVuSerif
appears to show the same output as DEFAULT:0:Times so it's probably just using the DejaVu fonts | [20:51] |
| mercutio | oh it's calling the module
it definitely changes something http://202.49.71.24:24/smokeping/images/__navcache/141645903735734_1416459037_1416448200.svg i'm only setting title and only the title is ugly :) | [20:52] |
| m0unds | yeah it is
lol the rest looks ok though | [20:54] |
| acf_ | the other stuff looks like it's still monospace (Courier or whatever) | [20:54] |
| m0unds | yeah | [20:54] |
| mercutio | oh consolas looks better | [20:54] |
| m0unds | looks like the default smokeping typeface
consolas is my fav fixed width font i use it in putty on windows | [20:54] |
| acf_ | ah nice | [20:54] |
| mercutio | http://202.49.71.24:24/smokeping/images/__navcache/141645913735819_1416459137_1416448320.svg | [20:55] |
| m0unds | too big but looks clean | [20:55] |
| mercutio | a bit big, but it looks more sane
http://202.49.71.24:24/smokeping/smokeping.fcgi?displaymode=n;start=2014-11-20%2014:53;end=now;target=meh.sydmeh ok that's starting to look better | [20:55] |
| m0unds | yeah, that looks good
little big still but much better all around | [20:56] |
| mercutio | i want the text for overview a bit smaller though | [20:56] |
| acf_ | some things broke :P
http://oss.oetiker.ch/smokeping/counter.cgi/2.006010 | [20:57] |
| mercutio | i put it down a step, now it looks too small | [20:57] |
| acf_ | http://202.49.71.24:24/smokeping/images/smokeping.svg
rather it still looks super big on my screen | [20:57] |
| mercutio | oh? | [20:57] |
| acf_ | (the 1024x768 one) | [20:58] |
| m0unds | yeah, the last time you linked it the text at the bottom was bigger than the title
it wasn't overlapping like it was before though, just big | [20:58] |
| mercutio | http://202.49.71.24:24/myscreen.png
i suppose it is kind of big | [20:59] |
| acf_ | ah. looks nice on that screen | [20:59] |
| m0unds | yeah
my macbook is pre-retina, so it's got a pretty low res display | [21:00] |
| mercutio | i'm using cheap korean monitor
qnix | [21:00] |
| m0unds | so it's really big for me but would look fine on my workstation display i'm sure (since it's the same res as yours) | [21:00] |
| mercutio | 1440p is actually quite a nice resolution
it works ok in winodws too 4k is screwy in windows | [21:00] |
| acf_ | are the Windows icons vector or at least available in many sizes? | [21:01] |
| mercutio | but yeah the cool thing about svg is that it can scale i suppose
what windows icons? i don't think they've vector | [21:01] |
| acf_ | like the taskbar ones, etc.. | [21:01] |
| mercutio | they look rpetty blocky | [21:02] |
| acf_ | I can see it would be difficult to support 1024x768 and 4k at the same time
if you're just using a single scale of raster images it would be cool if they had a system where you could change the dpi without changing the visible size | [21:02] |
| mercutio | well 1280x720 and 2560x1440 is just x2
but smokeping isn't really good for 1024 across as with 1024 you don't want to show a side bar i should try on my phone | [21:02] |
| acf_ | Android? | [21:06] |
| mercutio | yeah
choosing the site on the left sucks gah it keeps crashing my phone is 720p | [21:08] |
| acf_ | crashing.. by trying to render SVG? | [21:09] |
| mercutio | the image itself is fine
it's the other page it seems it screw up on | [21:10] |
| m0unds | worked okay for me in chrome on android | [21:10] |
| mercutio | when there's heaps of them
the overview page with heaps of them even just going to the curl page is slow | [21:10] |
| acf_ | it takes a long time to render the svg on the server? | [21:11] |
| mercutio | gah it crashed again | [21:11] |
| acf_ | the browser is the thing crashing? | [21:11] |
| mercutio | chrome 39
the browser is crashing on android chrome 39 is what i'm using on desktop too svg on the server is fine speed wise it's the phone that's slow that server is in new zealand, so may be a bit slower for you guys | [21:11] |
| m0unds | took 10 seconds or so to display the curl page on my phone
didn't crash or anything | [21:12] |
| mercutio | curl page showed ok
it was other that crashed | [21:12] |
| m0unds | oh, let me try that | [21:12] |
| mercutio | then i clicked on the top curl one and it crashed again
my phone only has 1gb of ram i dunno if that's why but no other chrome windows open | [21:12] |
| m0unds | it's taking a while to show m all the graphs - i have a few missing | [21:13] |
| mercutio | and yeh 10 seconds kind of sucks
some are blank in other i haven't cleaned up this server yet :) i cleaned some of the others up abit | [21:13] |
| m0unds | 4 seconds on my macbook
10 on the phone | [21:14] |
| acf_ | which specific page? | [21:14] |
| m0unds | "other" | [21:14] |
| mercutio | oh it does load a little slow | [21:14] |
| m0unds | just got the "aw snap" on my phone for "other"
haha | [21:14] |
| mercutio | m0unds: yeh that's what was happening to me
and it's what the completion jumped to first | [21:15] |
| m0unds | it loaded most of them the first time, with 3 or so missing
then when i reloaded, i got "aw snap" | [21:15] |
| mercutio | android is so stable | [21:15] |
| m0unds | sometimes
haha | [21:15] |
| mercutio | there's only one fcgiwrap socket
and it's i3 cpu | [21:15] |
| m0unds | ah, gotcha | [21:15] |
| mercutio | so it should have more than one
well if it's going to be slow it does seem svg does generate slower than ping png | [21:15] |
| acf_ | or it's just bigger, so there is more transfer time?
my phone is swapping to flash on "other" :P | [21:16] |
| mercutio | mind you it's also bigger file size
heh | [21:16] |
| m0unds | hahaha | [21:17] |
| mercutio | i wonder if it's just svg needs tuning in rrdtool
it does look nicer, but i want to change my step time down now :) | [21:17] |
| acf_ | mercutio: do you have gzip compression enabled on your http?
that would probably help a lot | [21:18] |
| mercutio | i tried on and off before
a diff day so maybe it's off | [21:18] |
| acf_ | png is binary, svg is xml | [21:19] |
| mercutio | it was always on for /smokeping
it's smokeping.fcgi i was turnig it off/on oh | [21:19] |
| acf_ | ah, ok | [21:19] |
| mercutio | then it's not working for some reason
cos i tried curl -O before grr it's huge wow it's 240k to 40k just running gzip on it why it's nginx compressing it oh i need to define it for that mime type i tink done 50k rather than 40k but so be it and yeah mime type | [21:19] |
| acf_ | see any performance difference? | [21:24] |
| mercutio | no
curl --compressed -v -O 0.00s user 0.00s system 5% cpu 0.058 total curl --compressed -v -O 0.00s user 0.00s system 17% cpu 0.019 total | [21:24] |
| acf_ | loads in ~2 sec for me | [21:24] |
| mercutio | that was non compressed first one
curl --compressed -v -O 0.00s user 0.00s system 2% cpu 0.133 total oh the 133 msec vs 58 msec the 19 msec was cached | [21:24] |
| acf_ | that would make sense | [21:25] |
| mercutio | it still seems slow :/ | [21:25] |
| acf_ | yea | [21:25] |
| mercutio | i have 1 minute expiry set
cos it updates every minute i think it is a little faster but yeah if i setup the cgi to run multiple at once it'd make it seem smoother i imagine actually i don't think it'd make any difference i think the cgi creates the images | [21:25] |
| acf_ | it does | [21:28] |
| mercutio | so the server would have to do it in parallel
i wonder if there's an easy way to do that ... | [21:28] |
| *** | sga0 has joined #arpnetworks | [21:29] |
| mercutio | like async create graphs on various threads, wait for completion | [21:29] |
| acf_ | probably not without changing lots of code | [21:29] |
| mercutio | yeah i don't want to touch lots of code :)
the code looked scary i'm thankful for getting this far! | [21:29] |
| acf_ | yea. it's been going rather well | [21:30] |
| mercutio | i wonder if bryce is around
he's running smokeping too | [21:30] |
| acf_ | brycec: ^
I think RandalSchwartz is really big on perl.. | [21:31] |
| mercutio | oh you're bryce? | [21:31] |
| acf_ | just calling him | [21:31] |
| mercutio | oh right
i think the mobile layout could be improved too actually i'm going to try on my tablet err on my crap tablet | [21:31] |
| acf_ | there is a mobile layout? | [21:32] |
| mercutio | no
that's the problem it's really annoying to select hosts on the left | [21:33] |
| m0unds | "other" still ends up hanging on my phone | [21:33] |
| acf_ | lol yea | [21:33] |
| mercutio | yeah i think phones have to switch back to png :) | [21:33] |
| acf_ | the smokeping web interface could really do with some improvements..
I wonder how hard it would be to rewrite that part in golang or something | [21:33] |
| mercutio | yeah i was thinking of writing my own web frotn end
but it seems that the web front end is tied heavy into the backend | [21:34] |
| acf_ | that's what it looks like | [21:34] |
| mercutio | it was one of those things that was coming to me today
the other thing i want to do is quick snmp monitoring of network interfaces with ultra-quick updates like show on a web page bandwidth per second or such | [21:34] |
| acf_ | Cacti?
oh without graphs you mean? | [21:35] |
| mercutio | cacti is per minute
and similar with ping too something you can go to real time to measure performance as well as doing it on command line so it'd do the actual checks with backend | [21:35] |
| acf_ | it would be cool to aggregate all that information (SNMP, SmokePing, etc...) | [21:36] |
| m0unds | yeah | [21:36] |
| acf_ | also, this: http://stats.sunet.se/stat-q/load-map/optosunet-core,,traffic,peak
super cool imo | [21:36] |
| mercutio | chrome is spastic on my tablet | [21:36] |
| m0unds | i use cacti for local stuff (snmp on my juniper srx and managed switch) | [21:36] |
| mercutio | and it's not full screen | [21:36] |
| acf_ | m0unds: you have a juniper srx? | [21:37] |
| m0unds | yeah | [21:37] |
| acf_ | I was thinking about getting one of those
what model? | [21:37] |
| m0unds | i have a SRX210HE | [21:37] |
| acf_ | what kind of forwarding performance do you get? | [21:37] |
| mercutio | it's a nexus 7 maybe they tihnk i'm meant to be running android 5 or something | [21:37] |
| m0unds | i haven't tested it
it's rated for 800mbit/sec imix iirc | [21:38] |
| acf_ | not bad for the price tag | [21:38] |
| m0unds | cpu utilization is a whopping 8% maxing out my 50mbit cable connection, haha
yup great for learning junos too has all the features of the big units as well as layer 3 switching and stuff junos for all occasions i graph cpu utilization, flow sessions, memory usage, cf storage, temperature and my WAN bits/sec | [21:38] |
| acf_ | is there a good way to get the amount of data transferred over a given interval with Cacti?
(on a specific interface) my "Total In" and "Total Out" numbers are always off.. | [21:41] |
| m0unds | ah | [21:41] |
| mercutio | nexus 7 2012 is being very slow sohwing other in "browser" | [21:42] |
| m0unds | mine's pretty close, it matches what i get when i query via ssh | [21:42] |
| acf_ | with svg or png? | [21:42] |
| mercutio | svg | [21:42] |
| acf_ | hm, yea | [21:42] |
| mercutio | oh it loaded finally | [21:42] |
| acf_ | :P | [21:42] |
| m0unds | haha | [21:42] |
| acf_ | m0unds: the thing that disturbed me | [21:43] |
| mercutio | it distorts the graphs heaps when scrolling too
looks a bit funky | [21:43] |
| acf_ | is that the "Total In" and "Total Out" numbers for 1 week were larger than the numbers for 1 month | [21:43] |
| mercutio | i bet it's a lot faster on my other tablet | [21:43] |
| acf_ | I guess svg s are cpu-intensive to render
especially on mobile platforms.. | [21:44] |
| mercutio | yeah
nexus 7 has a crap cpu | [21:44] |
| m0unds | ...whaaaat? | [21:44] |
| mercutio | actually i don't know if it's /that/ bad | [21:44] |
| m0unds | that's weird | [21:44] |
| mercutio | it's 2012 model | [21:44] |
| m0unds | is the time right on the host and everything? | [21:44] |
| mercutio | what do you mean?
catci doesn't care about time it cares about uptime | [21:44] |
| acf_ | I saw that when I first started using Cacti
I had a lot of data transferred in the last week or so and none for the rest of the month | [21:45] |
| mercutio | did you reboot the router? | [21:45] |
| acf_ | don't think so.. | [21:45] |
| BryceBot | That's what she said!! | [21:45] |
| mercutio | did it wrap around? | [21:45] |
| acf_ | wrap around? | [21:46] |
| mercutio | for snmp counters | [21:47] |
| acf_ | maybe, I'm not sure
just found another example "Total In: 184.35 GB" for weekly "Total In: 184.3 GB" for monthly this one wasn't that bad the volume of the other one was in MB and the numbers were off by at least several MB | [21:47] |
| m0unds | is this a new install? | [21:48] |
| acf_ | new as of a long time ago | [21:48] |
| m0unds | ah | [21:48] |
| acf_ | Version 0.8.8b
(shipped with Debian) | [21:48] |
| m0unds | was just curious if maybe it was averaging over a month w/only a months' worth of data or something goofy
i don't even know what version i'm on | [21:49] |
| acf_ | probably it is doing something like that
it says in the console when you log in in the top right | [21:49] |
| m0unds | yeah, logging now
logging in same version here, ubuntu 14.04 | [21:49] |
| acf_ | added any new graphs / data sources recently? | [21:50] |
| m0unds | nope, deleted some lately (ipv6 tunnel)
haven't added any though | [21:50] |
| acf_ | http://unixcube.org/who/acf/tmp/graph_image-0.png
http://unixcube.org/who/acf/tmp/graph_image-1.png (had to censor these) note the "Total In *way* bigger on the weekly one | [21:53] |
| m0unds | huh
weird oh cool, spotify got rights to some of the boards of canada b-side stuff they lost a while back | [21:57] |
| mercutio | it does seem weird
can you use sflow acf? i was distracting getting rid of the stupid borders with smokeping well rrdtool you have the silly borders too :) so is it actually spiking like that? | [22:07] |
| acf_ | yea, the spikes are real
which silly borders? | [22:10] |
| mercutio | the gray
light gray and dark gray there's a line on left hand side and top and bottom and right and the background colour of the text etc i set all of them to FFFFFF BACK, CANVAS, SHADEA, SHADEB http://202.49.71.24:24/smokeping/smokeping.fcgi?target=Curl so it shows like that now i kind of want to take the rrdtool text out as well | [22:12] |
| acf_ | oh those grey borders | [22:13] |
| mercutio | and fix the logo | [22:13] |
| acf_ | yea for that you just need to substitute png back in | [22:13] |
| mercutio | what? | [22:14] |
| acf_ | > and fix the logo | [22:14] |
| mercutio | oh right yeh | [22:14] |
| acf_ | the logo is a png | [22:14] |
| mercutio | apparently you have to hack the source te romev the TOBI thingy
apparently the author is cool with people doing that | [22:16] |
| acf_ | I wonder if you can reference it specifically with --font
and set the font size to zero or the color to transparent or something | [22:19] |
| mercutio | i'm just going to hack the source
there's a new version that just came out but hadn't been a new version in two years doesn't seem to have changed mcuh though hmm other works fine on my good tablet and it seems fast too | [22:19] |
| acf_ | any svg generation performance change with the new version per chance? | [22:28] |
| mercutio | didn't look like it
was hoping to be haha http://oss.oetiker.ch/rrdtool/pub/CHANGES but it may mean there's a new version again soon | [22:28] |
| ....... (idle for 32mn) | ||
| i didn't realise rrdtool and smokeping were written by the same guy | [23:00] | |
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