#arpnetworks 2014-11-09,Sun

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WhoWhatWhen
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mercutiothat google mtu thing gets stranger, even ip's of google caches have strangely small packets
looks like 1454 mtu 		[04:35]
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acf_routing weirdness
http://paste.unixcube.org/k/f7eaf
[13:14]
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mercutiosavvis suck
slashdot is using savvis and has huge pings too
and doesn't show anything weird in traceroute from arp other than huge ping
so i imagine savvis just have messed up peering with qwest.net as shown in your trace
and peer with them in london 		[13:30]
acf_funny because Qwest and Savvis are both CenturyLink [13:31]
mercutioi didn't know that [13:31]
acf_just played with the PCCW and Savvis looking glasses
looks like they peer in LAX 		[13:31]
mercutiooh
oh that wasn't your normal connection 		[13:31]
acf_that was from arp
*to arp 		[13:31]
mercutioit's 160 msec to slashdot.org which is hosted in chicago
(from arp) 		[13:32]
acf_yea probably by London [13:32]
mercutioyeah
but it looks like it's los angeles to chicago :/ 		[13:32]
acf_forward path from ARP probably is
the return path is screwed up 		[13:32]
mercutioping jumps from 1 msec average to 156 msec average
in single hop
yeah
it has been for ages
but it's savvis -> qest -> pccw -> trit 		[13:32]
acf_the qwest -> pccw is in London... [13:34]
mercutiodoes the looking glass show any paths? [13:34]
acf_I didn't look at bgp [13:34]
mercutiothe savvis -> qest is in london too isn't it?
oh maybe not 		[13:34]
acf_it is
cr2-ten-0-7-4-0.londonuk1.savvis.net
...
63-235-40-189.dia.static.qwest.net 		[13:34]
mercutioi don't think level3, and ntt have amazingly close connections with savvis
i think cogent/comcast/etc are closer 		[13:35]
acf_that kind of explains it
the funny part is that pccw and savvis peer in LA 		[13:35]
mercutiothat would mean savvis carrying traffic to la [13:36]
acf_I tried the Savvis lg traceroute from LA...
same thing 		[13:36]
mercutiooh
i'm just trying that now heh 		[13:36]
acf_LA -> London -> LA :P
but tracing to 63.218.212.14 (hop 9 in the trace to ARP)
goes directly via LA 		[13:36]
mercutiouhh
NTT have direct connection
like forward path to slashdot
is AS2914 AS3561 		[13:37]
acf_so it should be going via NTT instead of savvis? [13:38]
mercutioyeah
but i'm struglging to use bgp
ipv4 unicast is what i want?
it's not coming up with anything 		[13:38]
acf_idk anything about bgp [13:39]
mercutioi know i hate savvis's looking glass :)
telnet://route-server.savvis.net
damn it's not working 		[13:39]
acf_that would have been really nice.. [13:40]
mercutioyes
most of the looking glasses are really slow 		[13:40]
acf_can you explain why when tracing directly to 63.218.212.14 from the Savvis lg, the path goes via lax
(1.419 ms) 		[13:41]
mercutioi dunno what that ip is [13:41]
acf_but when you trace arpnetworks.com, the hop 63.218.212.14 has a latecny of [13:41]
mercutiooh it's pccw
i just did traceroute from pccw looking glass and saw that ip
it's 0 msec from pccw to arp
we kin dof need to see what routes they see 		[13:41]
acf_143.880 ms
hmm ok 		[13:43]
mercutiowhat it's not seeing arp at all?
atlanta quickly finds no routes
los angeles slowly doesn't seem to do anything 		[13:43]
acf_% Network not in table
:/ 		[13:44]
mercutiohttps://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/nanog-/MLWLu1NQZpI
so it's been broken for years 		[13:45]
acf_ah ok [13:45]
mercutiobut yeah i assume savvis don't send to ntt because pccw are cheaper than ntt to send to?
maybe pccw are customer 		[13:46]
acf_it's still super strange that it would be going via london imo [13:47]
mercutioyeah good luck getting it fixed :) [13:57]
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acf_acf_ facepalms
the Savvis NOC mailbox is full...
I was trying to ask them about their looking glass / route server 		[14:14]
mercutiohaha
well if it was broken in 2011
i imagine they don't care much 		[14:18]
acf_it's always fun to listen to NSPs tell me stright up that their crap is broken
and that they're not going to fix it 		[14:20]
https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html#tab=ipv6-adoption
wonder why the green line is so squiggly
the interesting thing is
on the very last datapoint, "6to4/Teredo" is 0.00%
rather than the 0.01 and 0.02 it's been throughout 2013 and 2014
I wonder if that's related to the broken PTMUD problem 		[14:32]
mercutioyeah that is strange
it maybe that they're trying stuff on/off a lot
to measure performance 		[14:41]
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mnathanihow do ip address allocations work when you colocate? For instance if I have an ASA firewall and get assigned say a /29. Does the WAN interface of the firewall have to have a different /30 assigned? Allowing the entire /29 to be used for hosts, VMs etc? [18:11]
mercutiothere's more than one way people do stuff
you can get a /29 routed to you over your normal ip address, or you can have just the /29
if you have just the /29 you'll usually have 5 ip addresses to play with
err
that was a generic response
with arp dedicated server i have a /29 and just the /29 		[18:15]
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mnathaniI guess I am curious how that setup works when you have multiple devices, rather than a physical server
cable comes in > connects to firewall > one port for physical web server, another for physical mail server, another for physical DNS server, all running on their own public IP address.
I would thing they would point to the firewall for their default gateway
s/thing/think 		[20:29]
BryceBot<mnathani> I would think they would point to the firewall for their default gateway [20:31]
mnathanibut what happens on the uplink interface of the firewall, does it use a different address block, say part of a /30? [20:31]
mercutiomnathani: fwiw i have a /32 for adsl, with a routed /29 at home
the internal lan interface on modem is on the /29
ppp makes it easy to have a /32 though
but from my understanding, people using hardware firewalls now days often have 3 ip addresses for firewalls, and it bridges
one for each firewall, and one for master ip
because having a firewall decreases your reliablity, and people who want to spend money on firewalls tend to want to spend money on redundancy
there's actually lots of ways of doing things
i kind of like routed /32s myself. 		[20:43]
BryceBotThat's what she said!! [20:48]
mercutiowhere you just route internet ip's onto rfc1918 address space.
so your gateway can be rfc1918 even
but you're bound to an internal ip
err bound to an internet ip
for programs that need it
so like your webserver maybe on 192.168.6.20, your mail server on 192.168.6.21
your internet ip 4.1.1.1
your mail 4.1.1.2
and you route 4.1.1.1 to 192.168.6.20
and add 4.1.1.1 as a seconday interface on 192.168.6.20
and you set programs to bind to that ip that need it
which also means you cna do fancy things like have the ip's bounce between hosts.
and have a vpn to access 192.168.6.0/24
the other thing is that you can do /31s more often now too
and so you could link using /31 to wan
but it tends to kill the odd/even low/high thing 		[20:48]
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