mnathani: icmp deprioritization maybe?
acf_: I'm beginning to think that maybe NTT just sucks
Level3's path is fine: http://paste.unixcube.org/k/b87f9d
just saying
mercutio: yeah it's strange isn't it
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acf_: >:( http://paste.unixcube.org/k/3cd15c
up_the_irons: could you please go yell at NTT for us?
m0unds: i don't think it'll do any good - they're in the same position as tata
comcast is buying peering from them and running it really hot, so it gets congested as hell during high demand hours
same with telia
random baby spider just dropped out of thin air and climbed into my macbook keyboard under the right shift key
haha
:q
err
acf_: lol I do that in openoffice documents all the time
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m0unds: god, comcast escalation support has gotten bad
it used to be really, really good
they want to roll a truck for this ntt/comcast congestion issue in LA
the dude determined my modem is "at death's door" and needs to be replaced to fix a signal issue, but the signal levels reported by the modem on the customer-facing part of it are well within spec
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m0unds: it's like their way of saying 'i don't understand what you just explained to me, so i'll fold it over into a context i can understand. your modem is bad."
gizmoguy: tell them their modem that connects them to NTT is bad :)
then they'll understand
m0unds: hahaha
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gizmoguy: why are we so lucky enough to have two m0unds
m0unds: one's via v4 at home, the other's via v6 on this box
mercutio: they just don't understand mounds
m0unds: mercutio: no shit
mercutio: well are yuo surprised
tier 1 helpdesks always suck
m0unds: well, considering 2+ years of biz support would have been able to understand it and suddenly in the last month and a half, it's a room full of retards
mercutio: ntt is a japanese transit provider primarily
so most people probably have no idea who they are
m0unds: and they're a transit provider in the us for lots of stuff
mercutio: and it looks kind of like ntu
hmm
m0unds: verizon is in a transit spat with them now, according to a friend of mine that works for an isp that competes w/vz
mercutio: verizon in transit spat with comcast?
m0unds: no, with ntt
mercutio: or with ntt?
welll we alraedy know ntt sucks to both comcast and verizon
m0unds: yeah, but it's because it's due to both vz and comcast shitlisting traffic and dumping it on tata, ntt and telia
staticsafe: peering drama o/
mercutio: politics
m0unds: yaaaaaaay
mercutio: m0unds: that's what at&t did with cogent
m0unds: everyone does that with cogent
mercutio: but
given equal paths, they'd push things otu to cogent
m0unds: comcast did it with cogent leading up to netflix' paid interconnect agreement
mercutio: which means if you had any cogent in your mix, you'd get bad traffic from at&t
because the ports were way over congested
so are you meant to just drop cogent?
(well actually should you have cogent in the first place?)
cogent's not as bad as it used to be
at&t goes via ntt too hmm
and looks to have some congestino too
so are ntt just becoming another cogent?
just higher ping though at least
17 msec jitter
acf_: > <m0unds> but it's because it's due to both vz and comcast shitlisting traffic and dumping it on tata, ntt and telia
what exactly do you think the relationship between NTT/Telia/TATA and Comcast is?
Comcast buys NTT transit, but not enough?
m0unds: yeah, they do the same with other transit providers too
and then if you don't play ball w/them, your traffic gets shitlisted, e.g., it gets funneled through one of those providers
the worst offender is tata, but they're bad nearly everywhere
acf_: by "play ball" I assume you mean "buy transit"
m0unds: yeah, arrange for an agreement to peer directly w/comcast
acf_: so they use the crappy links with Tier 1s to coerce Netflix, etc... into buying transit directly from them
m0unds: yeah, which netflix should just do as a cost of doing business anyway
acf_: super
m0unds: because it's nonsense that any one party should bear that whole burden
acf_: so it's really not NTT's fault
m0unds: that's why paid peering agreements exist and have existed forever
not necessarily
no way to tell easily
staticsafe: ^
this is all guessing
acf_: hmm... you'd think NTT would care about the quality of their Comcast links quite a lot
m0unds: yeah, speculation, speculation, speculation
well, if comcast is a customer, ntt isn't in any place to say "buy more capacity from us"
acf_: so how do you think buying transit from Comcast/Verizon/etc... compares to NTT pricing wise?
ie, why not just by transit from Comcast and get it over with
m0unds: i have no idea, i deal with closed networks not internet-facing networks :)
acf_: got it
it's interesting that you say Comcast is an NTT customer
because you would think NTT would be the primary sender
m0unds: they likely are, but again, speculation
acf_: and the sender usually pays
of course
m0unds: i haven't been able to find anything that prefers tata
acf_: I know I've seen it in the path to ARP in the past
so Level3
do they have peering congestion too?
m0unds: not as bad as it used to be - they used to be in the same boat as tata, ntt and cogent were w/comcast
acf_: what happened?
m0unds: dunno, just remember there was a really public series of blog posts and yelling back and forth in 2010 or so
acf_: I remember that between Level3 and Cogent
and Verizon and Cogent
m0unds: there was another one between level3 and comcast too
corporate.comcast.com/comcast-voices/comcast-comments-on-level-3
http://corporate.comcast.com/comcast-voices/comcast-comments-on-level-3
acf_: interesting
m0unds: yea
i haven't really seen a lick of headend or city-level comcast congestion in years
acf_: http://www.internap.com/2014/03/07/despite-comcast-netflix-deal-settlement-free-peering-alive-well/
that's a farmiliar graph :[14:43] <m0unds> yeah, haha
m0unds: i think it's a little disingenuous to say that suddenlink and sonic agreed to open connect purely because it benefits customers
they have significantly smaller networks and smaller subscriber counts
that's like saying $local_isp supports openconnect because it benefits consumers - i'd guess it'd probably also reduce the strain of their peers at the edge of their network
so i guess it's customer-centric in a way, but also protects their own business from having the reputation of being the "slow isp" haha
acf_: yeah. it's at least nice to see someone writing about the peering congestion though
I haven't been able to find much direct acknowledgement of the issue anywhere
http://www.internap.com/2010/12/02/peering-disputes-comcast-level-3-and-you/
internap seems to have some nice blogs
http://blog.level3.com/global-connectivity/observations-internet-middleman/
broadband service providers, right behind airlines
m0unds: haha, yeah
was playing with netbsd earlier. hadn't used it in years.
mercutio: i tried netbsd on winuae
painfully slow :/
acf_: I would imagine so
I ran NetBSD on some NeXT hardware a while ago
just for fun
it took like 15 minutes to boot
and 2 to log in
and 30 seconds to ls
don't even try ssh
mercutio: haha
is next 68k?
acf_: yep
68040
mercutio: my amiga has 68030
it's so damn slow with some things
and so damn fast with others
mnathani: @google what is node.js
BryceBot: 3,580,000 total results returned for 'what is node.js', here's 3
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