adoyee: hi,all mercutio: hi adoyee: I can't login my VPS :( mercutio: it got hacked?
have you tried using vnc? adoyee: I can't ping it. can you help me to ping it? gizmoguy: we have some professional pingers in the channel
but yeah, does the VNC console let you in? adoyee: oh, really? I think my VPN was blocked by the fireworks mercutio: what? gizmoguy: firewall ? mercutio: ok what is your ip
for your vps
he's in china
so if he was vpn'ing via it, then it may have randomly got blocked adoyee: 174.136.103.90 gizmoguy: ah. yeah :/ mercutio: we can't ping it either gizmoguy: 100% packet loss mercutio: so it's probably down for some reason
if you go to portal.arpnetworks.com
and login
then click on vps adoyee: I have start it in portal mercutio: then it will tell you what your vnc server is
and what port
you don't usually need to start it, it should arleady be running
and if there is a problem it can be good to see what it thinks the problem is adoyee: how I can check it?
running or not mercutio: by using vnc
so you went to portal ?
and it says your vnc server and port? adoyee: ok. I need a vnc client. mercutio: ok gizmoguy: windows? mac? linux adoyee ? adoyee: I'm from China. u know, the firewall ..
mac
mac and linux gizmoguy: if you got a linux nearby
there should be a decent enough built in VNC client adoyee: yes, and irc clients
using irc for the first time ***: mike-burns has quit IRC (*.net *.split)
pcn has quit IRC (*.net *.split)
RandalSchwartz has quit IRC (*.net *.split)
meingtsla has quit IRC (*.net *.split)
kevr has quit IRC (*.net *.split)
KDE_Perry has quit IRC (*.net *.split)
mercutio has quit IRC (*.net *.split)
twobithacker has quit IRC (*.net *.split)
m0unds has quit IRC (*.net *.split)
adoyee has quit IRC (*.net *.split)
pjs has quit IRC (*.net *.split)
NiTeMaRe has quit IRC (*.net *.split)
adoyee has joined #arpnetworks
mike-burns has joined #arpnetworks
pjs has joined #arpnetworks
NiTeMaRe has joined #arpnetworks
pcn has joined #arpnetworks
RandalSchwartz has joined #arpnetworks
meingtsla has joined #arpnetworks
kevr has joined #arpnetworks
m0unds has joined #arpnetworks
twobithacker has joined #arpnetworks
mercutio has joined #arpnetworks
KDE_Perry has joined #arpnetworks
barjavel.freenode.net sets mode: +o mike-burns
BryceBot has quit IRC (*.net *.split)
up_the_irons has quit IRC (*.net *.split)
staticsafe_ has quit IRC (*.net *.split)
avj has quit IRC (*.net *.split)
carvite has quit IRC (*.net *.split)
m0unds_ has quit IRC (*.net *.split)
brycec has quit IRC (*.net *.split)
josephb has quit IRC (*.net *.split)
acf_ has quit IRC (*.net *.split)
jpalmer has quit IRC (*.net *.split)
eryc has quit IRC (*.net *.split)
raptelan has quit IRC (*.net *.split)
BryceBot has joined #arpnetworks
up_the_irons has joined #arpnetworks
staticsafe_ has joined #arpnetworks
avj has joined #arpnetworks
carvite has joined #arpnetworks
m0unds_ has joined #arpnetworks
brycec has joined #arpnetworks
josephb has joined #arpnetworks
acf_ has joined #arpnetworks
jpalmer has joined #arpnetworks
eryc has joined #arpnetworks
raptelan has joined #arpnetworks
barjavel.freenode.net sets mode: +o up_the_irons
adoyee has quit IRC (*.net *.split)
pjs has quit IRC (*.net *.split)
NiTeMaRe has quit IRC (*.net *.split)
adoyee has joined #arpnetworks
pjs has joined #arpnetworks
NiTeMaRe has joined #arpnetworks mercutio: oh it's back adoyee: hi~
what happened, so many left gizmoguy: woo, freenode
net split adoyee: ha`
moments pls mercutio: netsplit gizmoguy: ~.`. mercutio: did you get sorted adoyee adoyee: hi, mercutio. I'm in office now. It's better check the vps in my private time. mercutio: ahh ok ***: adoyee has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)
adoyee has joined #arpnetworks
adoyee has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
ziyourenxiang has joined #arpnetworks
ziyourenxiang has quit IRC (Quit: ziyourenxiang) m0unds: professional pingers, represent! mercutio: heh m0unds: i think NTT is just screwy - this only happened in the last few days
i can see it from work (centurylink) as well mercutio: uhh it was happening months ago m0unds: i'm talking about the thing with comcast and me
not the thing with verizon mercutio: oh m0unds: well, comcast and centurylink and me mercutio: well whenever we talked about it last time with some of us, verizon and comast were both a bit screwy
and ntt had had some los angeles routing oddities on top of thagt
where ntt via san jose wasn't as bad as ntt via los angeles
or osmething ilke that m0unds: yeah, but i wasn't seeing 20+% packet loss and 200% higher latency mercutio: oh
but there was 5% loss or something
based on time of day m0unds: yeah mercutio: reoccuring m0unds: hadn't seen that in months via comcast here though mercutio: oh ok
there was 20 msec higher latency before or something i think? m0unds: with the exception of that weird thing late last week, when kvr26 was experiencing tons of pkt loss mercutio: i don't actually even remember what month this was :)
yeh that wasn't ntt's fault m0unds: well, it's weird - one of my addresses ordinarily pings ~30ms and is routed via LAX directly off comcast to arp
but other ones are routed to SJC via denver and ping at 50ms or so mercutio: have you tried iperf? m0unds: nah
throughput is fine - i tunnel ipv6 traffic through this vm mercutio: ahh ok
you can figure out direction of loss m0unds: i'm reasonably sure it's NTT, because my CL route is NTT bidirectionally
but comcast is only NTT outbound from the vm
and the CL one has the same hop both directions mercutio: yeah i think it's outbound via ntt that is the issue too m0unds: ae-3.r05.lsanca03.us.bb.gin.ntt.net <- that one mercutio: bnut that's from last time rather than testing m0unds: right mercutio: bah i'll see if i have any affected hosts :/
i think i didn't
oh
it's too late at night now
isn't it m0unds: yeah
http://i.imgur.com/zPKFrvm.png
that's on one of the low-latency IP addresses via LAX mercutio: so what 4 hours too late? m0unds: 7 mercutio: oh m0unds: stops at around midnight gmt -0700 mercutio: it's nearly 2 am here
i should be in bed heh
but yeah means it finishes about 7 pm here
which is about when it's easy to do testing hah m0unds: haha mercutio: oh it's only 5% loss
it was way worse than that what i saw? m0unds: yeah, i think the vz one is much worse mercutio: ahh m0unds: speed congestion and latency are what i'm seeing here
just coincides with the vz thing, just less severe mercutio: yeah it's complicated to determine impact m0unds: usually the graph is nice and flat 24/7 mercutio: i normalyl reckon 0.5% to 5% loss is degraded
and over 5% is severely degraded m0unds: 29ms +/- .3ms right now mercutio: and 20%+ loss is unusable.
but i thikn loss should be below 0.05% m0unds: and ordinarily it is, there's just some wonky stuff somewhere mercutio: for transit links etc
well i imagine comcast may be resolvable
ie they may actually take notice if you email them
whereas i think verizon is long standing dispute territory? m0unds: yeah, they're terrible
i've got a buddy who's an engineer w/comcast, but he's out of town. i figured if it's persisting when he gets back, i'll drop him a line mercutio: i doubt much will happen in a timely manner
but i've been wrong in the past
oh hey i'm seeing latency as well
http://202.49.71.24:24/smokeping/smokeping.fcgi?displaymode=n;start=2014-06-06%2019:53;end=now;target=other.comcastnet
from nz, via verizon to comcast
it's probably ntt return path
it originates from 202.49.71.24
can you traceroute from comcast back to that ip?
uhh it looks like level3
oh it's ntt forward path
ok it verizon forward path again
will see what it liketommorow brycec: lol professional pingers.... m0unds: yeah, we're pro-pingers jpalmer: up_the_irons: I realized yesterday that my card on file, had expired and I was two months behind. Thanks for not killing my account! I've updated the card info, and you can run it whenever you'd like. brycec: Wouldn't up_the_irons have emailed on payment failure?
I agree - thanks for not killing the account - but I think there should've been a warning/notification jpalmer: brycec: I get a ton of emails, I probably just overlooked one, if it came in. brycec: Ah acf_: ok, just sent NTT an email about Comcast
Alan,
We are currently seeing no issues on the NTT network. Please contact
your network provider to have the issue investigated further.
lol m0unds: haha, i guess give it 2 hours acf_: yeah, if you look at my Verizon email
it went the same way
I have a modified version of the reply: http://paste.unixcube.org/k/eec77a
with s/Verizon/Comcast/ m0unds: hahaha, nice ***: toddf has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
pseudorandom has joined #arpnetworks
pseudodoge has joined #arpnetworks
pseudorandom has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
pseudodoge has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) m0unds: haha, here it comes anisfarhana: Love the arpnetworksssss!!!!!
Running psybnc on arpnetworks box, idle time is almost 800 minutes now! :D
Very stable
Thanks arpnetworks! mercutio: anis: that's not very high :/
heh
acf: i wonder where people are meant to cpomlain about these things
there's that outages mailing list but they probably won't notice
there's nanong :/
but its' not really relevant m0unds: i added that particularly flaky hop to my monitoring mercutio: could email nanong where to discuss such things?
i'd love to see some kind of proper reporting of interconnects
the only one that's around doesn't actually seem very good m0unds: stupid wind. ugh. mercutio: http://internetpulse.net/ m0unds: @wx
!wx brycec: ?
m0unds: You looking for @weather ? m0unds: wasn't sure what the trigger was, figured it'd be one of those two
haha brycec: wx is kinda uncommon... weather makes way more sense :p m0unds: moar chars
@weather kaeg BryceBot: There are 3 weather alerts in effect for your area! There is a Tornado Watch. There is a Areal Flood Advisory. There is a Wind Advisory.
Double Eagle Ii, NM: Partly Cloudy ☁ 79°F (26°C), Humidity: 19%, Wind: From the West at 14 MPH Gusting to 12 MPH -- For more details including the forecast and almanac, see http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/getForecast?query=, or re-request this with: @weather -v kaeg staticsafe: tornado watch o_o m0unds: yep, north of me
@weather 87113 BryceBot: There are 3 weather alerts in effect for your area! There is a Tornado Watch. There is a Areal Flood Advisory. There is a Wind Advisory.
Albuquerque, NM: Partly Cloudy ☁ 86°F (30°C), Humidity: 23%, Wind: From the SE at 9.4 MPH -- For more details including the forecast and almanac, see http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/getForecast?query=35.169689,-106.567902 or re-request this with: @weather -v 87113 brycec: Nice weather m0unds acf_: is that a unicode cloud? ☁ m0unds: wind seems off, it's shaking light poles and making the building creak mercutio: erk
that doesn't sound good :) brycec: Yes acf_ mercutio: does that include gust speeds for wind? m0unds: yeah, tornado thing is north of here - they just implicated the county albuquerque is in for whatever reason mercutio: tonado watch doesn't mean there's tornado m0unds: nope, but conditions are favorable mercutio: winds do move :) m0unds: they had golfball sized hail up in santa fe a bit ago (where the tornado watch is) mercutio: ouch
lots of broken windows etc? m0unds: no idea, someone on failbuque just said there was a lot of hail mercutio: @weather auckland BryceBot: Auckland, New Zealand: Mostly Cloudy ☁ 67°F (19°C), Humidity: 91%, Wind: From the NE at 4.5 MPH Gusting to 12.1 MPH -- For more details including the forecast and almanac, see http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/getForecast?query=-36.973896,174.878021 or re-request this with: @weather -v auckland m0unds: 67 sounds nice brycec: @wx 99019 BryceBot: Liberty Lake, WA: Scattered Clouds 74°F (23°C), Humidity: 27%, Wind: Calm -- For more details including the forecast and almanac, see http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/getForecast?query=47.666508,-117.100792 or re-request this with: @wx -v 99019 m0unds: bah mercutio: what is wind calm
haha
does that mean below 5mph or something?
so how does one get oen of these personal meter thingys brycec: @wiki Beaufort scale BryceBot: Beaufort scale :: The Beaufort scale /ˈboʊfərt/ is an empirical measure that relates wind speed to observed conditions at sea or on land. Its full name is the Beaufort wind force scale, although it is a measure of wind speed and not of force in the scientific sense. History The scale was devised in 1805 by Francis Beaufort (later Rear Admiral Sir Francis Beaufort), an Irish... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beaufort%20scale brycec: mercutio: ^ m0unds: weather underground had a thing outlining hardware requirements for PWS data feeding
with some suggestions for vendors in the us and whatnot mercutio: oh it's less than 1km/h m0unds: there's one like 500ft from my house mercutio: eerie still
m0unds: there's quite a few around it seems
so i imagine it's not extermely expensive m0unds: http://www.wunderground.com/personal-weather-station/dashboard?ID=KNMALBUQ167#history brycec: http://www.wunderground.com/weatherstation/about.asp m0unds: that's the one right near my house
yea, my tunnel is shit slow right now so i didn't dare to try and dig around the site
haha mercutio: you need to use windows? brycec: No? mercutio: WeatherLink suonded windowsy brycec: It's self-contained, just plug in Ethernet
"The RainWise RapidFire(tm) enabled weather station doesn't need a PC to upload to us."
"WeatherBridge is an IP WiFi appliance that connects to weather stations and updates to Weather Underground real-time, providing up to the second data without the use of a PC."
etc
all non-PC mercutio: $1271
that's expesnive :/ brycec: Starting at $250 tho mercutio: you also need to wire it up etc brycec: some of them http://www.ambientweather.com/amws1000wifi.html mercutio: the $250 are the windows ones? brycec: No?
http://rainwise.com/wunderground/ $139 mercutio: oh so they are all self contained except the usb ones? brycec: (And still no PC required)
What USB ones? mercutio: http://www.davisnet.com/weather/products/weather_product.asp?pnum=06510USB brycec: Oh you clicked on the top of the line one :p mercutio: i googled?
you save $139
it's $1350 :/ m0unds: i can do too many fun things with $1350 to tie it up in weather stations
unless i had interesting weather or something
but it's sunny something like 300 days a year in ABQ mercutio: exactly
haha
but it's windy m0unds: wind just means it's either dusty or cold usually
(right now it's dusty) mercutio: http://www.ambientweather.com/amws1000wifi.html
so this one is good? brycec: m0unds: If you ran an airport, for instance, you'd care about weather details such as the $$ will get you mercutio: airports have weather stations :/
that upload to these weather thingys brycec: mercutio: Yes, they buy them from somewhere... m0unds: if i ran an airport, it'd matter brycec: (small airports, air strips, etc) m0unds: i live near a small civil aviation airport
DOUBLE EAGLE Ii (the second i is lowercase for some reason) brycec: Yeah m0unds but the idea seemed to go over mercutio's head m0unds: lol brycec: And mercutio I have no idea if it's "good" - I only know that it was linked from the wunderground URL I provided. mercutio: it didn't go over my head
i just saw there were like 20 personal stations in my city
and figured that lots of them wouldn't be spending lots of money
there are two airport official ones in the city too brycec: Airport weather rarely matches the weather a few miles/km away mercutio: oh?
well lots of sample sets give better ideas anyway
this city doesnt' have the same waether all over :/ brycec: Either on account of the airport's distance away from the city, or the microclimate caused by jet engines.
(The airport here is atop a tall hill, 30 minutes away)
(for example) mercutio: kind of annoying when driving, because you have to turn wipers on/off/on/off -: brycec has automatic wipers :D mercutio: that sounds more annoying :) brycec: I don't see how mercutio: i find automatic cars annoying too :/
it'sk ind of disturbing when somethnng else is decding when to do stuff brycec: Starts raining, wipers start. Rains harder, wipers speed up to match. m0unds: my truck does that and the lights turn on when it gets dark too
MAGIC brycec: (me too) m0unds: magic! brycec: lol mercutio: heh m0unds: i gotta go into work super early on wednesday
have to leave at 0300. bleck. brycec: And honestly, the magic wipers have come in handy in some very inclement weather; I could keep my hands on the wheel at all times (necessary) and not worry about tweaking the speed. m0unds: SHAZAAM z310: ouch, m0unds
What time are you going to go to bed? m0unds: probably 2100 or so
get to be half asleep while i take down our recording and operator environment so a vendor can fix UPS' z310: and you'll wake up, i imagine, at 0200? m0unds: yeah, something like that probably
haha z310: >_<
I haven't done anything like that since college m0unds: pair of 80kVA eaton powerware units that our facility engineer decided didn't need maintenance bypasses :) z310: oh dear m0unds: oh cool. the air pressure differential caused the roof covering over the convention center at work to balloon up, tear, then flop down like a deflated balloon gizmoguy: m0unds: you guys probably saved a couple hundred bucks, you should say congrats to your power engineer :P m0unds: gizmoguy: ikr
it was a $381 option for the two UPS' i specced as replacements late last year (they won't give me the money)
EVERYTHING MUST STAY UP. wait. you want money? whoa, whoa whoa. watch it. gizmoguy: why are you guys even buying UPSs
they are pretty expensive m0unds: hahaha gizmoguy: and the maintainence of replacing batteries etc m0unds: business continuity, brah gizmoguy: is the rest of the casino on generators? m0unds: that's the funny part
i think i told you about that whole lightning/flooding mess we had in july, right? gizmoguy: yeah m0unds: we have N+1 gensets for the facility, total generating capacity is like 7MW
the ones (two of them) that backed our gear had no maintenance records, dead batteries, dead battery chargers, so they failed to start when we lost utility power due to the transformer exploding gizmoguy: rofl m0unds: so they decided that the way to fix it was to throw more money at new UPS subsystems to keep us up longer if the gens fail to fire up gizmoguy: see, way better off if you didn't have them :)
why don't you buy laptops for servers m0unds: lol
YUS gizmoguy: I hear they have built in UPSs m0unds: so, the old men with the big checkbooks wanted us to get new, better UPS' (which i would like, because the ones we have are 13 years old)
they have battery maintenance and stuff, but they're old and don't have maintenance bypasses >:|
so they asked me for a ballpark price range for what we wanted, so i specced 4 80kVA 9390s w/vycon flywheel frontends as an option to reduce battery wear and extended battery cabinets rated for 15 mins at full load (because that's the magic number they had in their minds)
it was gonna be something like $385k installed, with transfer switches and everything
but that was too much
but they just approved $280k for us to wire up a temporary parking lot for camera coverage and stuff while a parking garage is built :) gizmoguy: buy second hand
ebay probably has a lot of UPSs m0unds: i'd rather just buy a conex container full of 1000VA rackmount ups' and dump them in the fountain
the flywheels are neat though
http://vyconenergy.com/pq/pages_pq/pqprod.htm ***: toddf has joined #arpnetworks
ChanServ sets mode: +o toddf m0unds: well, the packet loss + latency thing is back in full force again. seeing a 30ms differential between ae10-50g.cr1.lax2.us.nlayer.net and ge0-arpnet.cust.lax07.mzima.net mercutio: gizmo m0unds: and 10-15% pkt loss
haha acf_: ok sending mail mercutio: you know that some people do actually advocate buying laptops for servers
worst idea ever :/ m0unds: mercutio: you're too late, i already bought 60 at his advice
they'll be here friday
s/at/on BryceBot: <m0unds> mercutio: you're too lone, i already bought 60 on his advice m0unds: hahahah
lone -: m0unds gives up mercutio: oh i tried smokeping last night
i should check it acf_: yep :/
http://kremvax.acfsys.net/smokeping.cgi?target=Local.unixcube mercutio: oh that was to comcast acf_: yeah mercutio: and yeah via verizon to comcast no loss
like /no/ loss
today, and loss yesterday m0unds: acf_: i've got a 30ms differential between ntt and comcast, and a 30ms differential between arp and nlayer mercutio: ntt vs verizon forward route
level3 return route
so yeah it's ntt's forward path that sucks most likely
arp and nlayer could be about return path too m0unds: just hard to diagnose
haha acf_: if you look at the mtr for ARP -> Comcast m0unds: i'm doing both now acf_: the packet loss/latency clearly starts right between NTT and Comcast m0unds: yeah, there's a hop w/no rdns acf_: wow that's some sucky packet loss
the whois says Comcast m0unds: yup mercutio: well ntt aren't going to help
it soundedl ike :/ acf_: I know. I just want to see what they say
if they'll tell me if it's peering again this time mercutio: need lots of people cmoplaining really
complaining acf_: not even sure if that will help mercutio: yeah might not acf_: I'm sure they *want* to fix it mercutio: it probably helps if you pay them money acf_: just Comcast, etc... is being unreasonable / they're being unreasonable gizmoguy: mercutio: :D mercutio: did you try complaining to comcast as well? acf_: no. I just figure I'll get the Verizon-type response gizmoguy: I like to walk the line of ironic mercutio: well anyway i'm vonvinced that if the outbound path gets fixed it'll be a lot better
based on changing outbound path on my nz host: http://202.49.71.24:24/smokeping/smokeping.fcgi?target=other.comcastnet m0unds: http://pastebin.com/xrywYeLq mercutio: and it going to 0 loss
when it didn't go via ntt
it had like 4 bad days
and some in between stuff before that acf_: http://paste.unixcube.org/k/91504f
with visible loss mercutio: that nlayer to mzima hop is return path most likely
nlayer and mzima are the same company m0unds: one side is arp's, if i was to bet i'd say lax07 = arp switch 07
s7.lax.arpnetworks.com mercutio: that's the new server i think
and s1 is the old
s/server/router/ BryceBot: <mercutio> that's the new router i think acf_: I would think that lax07 would be controlled by nlayer/mzima m0unds: just guessing that particular hop is probably the mzima port acf_: oh ok m0unds: could be wrong acf_: yeah that's almost definitely s7.lax.arpnetworks.com
it would definitely explain the packet loss
if the return path was via ntt m0unds: and just because it's so odd, http://pastebin.com/xABATfn9
that is on the same VM, just a different IP addr
but the path to it is completely different
haha
abq -> denver -> sjc -> lax -> arp
vs abq -> lax -> arp acf_: hmm strange
Comcast's paths seem to change a lot
at one point I was going through Chicago mercutio: well basically up_the_irons can complain to ntt himself, or can maek exception to not wanting to route around issues. acf_: but I'm in CA
I don't think NTT can do anything even if up_the_irons complains m0unds: yeah, it seems like that particular path bw comcast and ntt is hot
just oversubscribed or something mercutio: it's been hot in the past too
it looked like i started monitoring it in march, so i imagine it's march when we discussed last m0unds: at least it's not tata
tata is comcast's cesspool for traffic acf_: arp traffic used to go via NTT <-> TATA <-> Comcast
I think m0unds: it used to be nlayer both directions for me mercutio: i wonder if routes are being advertised to level3 yet acf_: level3 looking glass traceroute says no mercutio: i found a comcast looking glass last night
but it was in canada acf_: oh cool
at least it's on their asn mercutio: i didn't even know that comcast was in canada acf_: I didn't either
Verizon hasn't responded to my request for looking glass :( m0unds: http://www.comcast.com/peering/ acf_: Dear Verizon Enterprise Solutions Customer,
We have received your correspondence and forwarded it to the appropriate personnel for processing.
that's cool m0unds: oh, here you go
telnet://route-server.newyork.ny.ibone.comcast.net
^ looking glass
haha
oh boo
authenticated
haha
actually, rviews is the username, no pw
http://pastebin.com/H0K9vMDw acf_: only route is via NTT?
I don't know how to read those... m0unds: 4436 is nlayer acf_: oh ok I didn't look up the AS
so, only route out is via nlayer
does that mean NTT peers only one way?
that doesn't make sense m0unds: well, from comcast's perspective, nlayer is the preferred route to arp
which we can see when we traceroute from comcast to an arp address acf_: ok, right m0unds: haha, nice, ntt is using juniper gear gizmoguy: yeah, they use some fun load balancers too
ping ntt.net and see if you notice anything strange m0unds: just saw the junos syntax in their lg when i had it show me bgp
haha, funny
dupe responses gizmoguy: yup m0unds: i get why they'd only return terse output, but i think that also makes them jerks acf_: so, Verizon and Comcast are doing the paid peering thing
and NTT is refusing to cooperate? m0unds: comcast makes lots of stipulations for settlement-free peering - you have to have a big network with reasonable route announcements, you have to receive as much as you send, etc mercutio: ntt are probably in that situation
ntt is tier 1 i think
they're not meant to pay acf_: yeah mercutio: think is cogent is huge
and is tier 2 acf_: level3 payed up I think mercutio: it gets messy acf_: that cogent HE ipv6 peering thing is still a problem mercutio: it doesn't erally matter if it's paid or free peering
it's whether links are congested or not acf_: it seems to them it matters :) mercutio: from an operational rather than political pov acf_: yeah mercutio: i am actually pro paid peering
i just think it should be at reasonable cost
as whenever things are free people don't take them as seriously acf_: it seems like the idea of settlement-free peering requires that the traffic ratios be roughly equal
because both sides would be paying each other the same amount mercutio: well it depends
i mean for big transit providers they should
normally sender pays acf_: right mercutio: so if you transmit 200 megabit/sec and receive 100 megabit/sec
how much shuold you pay? acf_: 50% of your transmit volume? mercutio: and say you want to be able to send 2000 megabit/sec
and so you want to have aggregated ethernet or 10 gigabit
how much shoudl you pay
i imagine paid peering for 2 gigabit on 10 gigabit is around $1000/month or more
but i could be wrong acf_: that doesn't seem unreasonable
for NTT who has big bucks to spend on that sort of thing mercutio: but if it is that kind of cost
than people shoudl be able to justify it
unless people want to cost it out at ilke $10,000/month
but
if you're only transmitting 200 megabit normally it's hard to justify
so say instead it's 200 megabit average, but 800 megabit peak
during the evenings
on a gigabit link
as soon as any link fails, that traffic would instead go over that link
you're screwwed
but the cost goes up generally going above 1gigabit
leaving either upgrading to 10 gigabit, or doubling up gigabit link
s
or rerouting traffic
but if the other link was only peaking at 300 megabit in evings
it might have been culled
because it wasn't worthwhile
but of course that puts more pressure on the first link
of course don't know all the details, but it's a complicated problem acf_: just it seems like network quality would be more important than a few dollars to NTT and the like mercutio: and the simplest solution is to way overprovision
so if your peak traffic is over 500 megabit acf_: and most effective I would imagine mercutio: then you should have another link
if you have two gigabit links, that peak at over 1 gigabit combined, you shoudl have a third link etc
but basically the way internet changes are moving towards is make it cheaper to go for 10 gigabit
s/changes/exchanges/ BryceBot: <mercutio> but basically the way internet exchanges are moving towards is make it cheaper to go for 10 gigabit acf_: do the Tier 1 providers still use gigabit links at all? mercutio: because that also reduces impact of ddos attacks. acf_: for interconnect mercutio: if it says ge in a traceroute it's one gigabit
if it says xe it's 10 gigabit acf_: like is NTT <-> Verizon/Comcast really gigabit? mercutio: in juniper speaker
it's 10 gigabit i think
te is cisco 10 gigabit acf_: my mtrs all say ae
which is aggregated mercutio: ae is hard to know
it's juniper aggregated ethernet
yeh
it could be either acf_: more likely gigabit though? mercutio: well it means it's at least 2 gigabit or at least 20 gigabit
hard to know acf_: would they have more than 10 gigabit? mercutio: could do
40 gigabit is common now acf_: wow mercutio: what is he
comcast are using he and te
i imagine he is moer than 10 gigabit acf_: I think it's old 10 gigabit interfaces mercutio: http://t1rex.blogspot.co.nz/2013/01/comcasts-100-gbps-core-network-supports.html
so comcast is shifting from 40 to 100 gigabit
with multiple links probably acf_: what
he- 100 Gigabit Ethernet (Cisco) mercutio: hmm i think denver can go la->phoenix>denver
or la->sj>denver
yeah anyway, ntt talk to comcast at 10 gigabit
or come into their netowrk at 10 gigbit
it's hard to know acf_: so Verizon still likely uses SONET/OC-192 for their backbone? mercutio: arp talks to ntt at gigabit acf_: yeah, I see that in the mtr mercutio: verizon do internationally i'm pretty sure
i imagine they have lots of legacy gear
and it doesn't make sense to update it acf_: why would it make sense for Comcast and not Verizon? mercutio: because comcast have national gear not international?
their network is newer/less established acf_: I guess mercutio: and their users mostly talk to netflix etc :/
verizon also have slas
with regards to latency, packet loss etc.
which sonet makes it easier to maange acf_: but can they really stay with 10 gigabit forever? mercutio: 10 gigabit is heaps acf_: I suppose
but as you said, other networks are going 40/100 gigabit mercutio: just becasue it's 10 gigabit doesn't mean it's only one 10 gigabit
and 10 gigabit interconnects between cities are probably normally fine
comcast is the biggest provider int eh US afaik
but even in NZ there's one provider doing 100 gigabit acf_: because they don't suck nearly as bad as Verizon mercutio: the thing is how much is 100 gigabit acf_: is it the same there? mercutio: like comcast seem to have 100 gigabit between san jose and denver acf_: the dominate provider is dominate because their service doesnt suck? mercutio: i imagine most cities are 10 gigabit though
we have this regulated deregulation system
uhh
the country sold the telephone network
then they imposed limits of them
then the telephone company split in to two companies
and one of them is wholesale and one is consumer
and the wholesale seels to the consumer
within the two split companies
and then the government is paying money to different companies to build their own fibre networks
which impact the only cable company here
the cable company bought out the third biggest provider or something m0unds: can't copy / paste because im on a tablet, but comcast's own ibone backbone is still relatively new, so the comparison of vz w legacy gear vs comcast's new network is an apt one mercutio: so now there are two major companies with cellphone/broadband. m0unds: they used to rely on at&t for coast to coast stuff mercutio: but there are lots of smaller companies too
yaeh i imagine verizon has a lot of legacy cruft
didn't uunet go bust?
and was bailed out by government? acf_: they are verizon
now mercutio: then acquired by verizon? acf_: yep
so-2-1-0-0.DFW03-CORE-RTR1.veriz
mtr verizon.net mercutio: companies that go bust often have more legavy stuff prior :)
as there's less desire to invest in modernising
and companies that are bought
well people don't understand :)
lots of staff leave etc
management dilemas etc
it's really common to have billnig issues when companies are bought out
and billing systems always take ages to integrated
-d acf_: verizon seems like a giant stew of bought up telecoms
that has no desire to integrate its components mercutio: haha
joy acf_: or do anything other than mainain the status quo mercutio: is cox good? acf_: and get out of the landline and dsl market
I've heard it is mercutio: it's just not anywhere that comcast is? acf_: it doesn't tend to have the peering congestion we see on Comcast and Verizon
right
it's a regional monopoly thing mercutio: because it's like a drug cartel, and they can't compete.
did i show you guys the youtube video acf_: don't think so mercutio: https://t.co/wD3MiiXOSM BryceBot: https://t.co/wD3MiiXOSM -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpbOEoRrHyU mercutio: i thought it was humourous brycec: @youtube fpbOEoRrHyU BryceBot: <http://youtu.be/fpbOEoRrHyU> YouTube Entertainment: "Last Week Tonight with John Oliver (HBO): Net Neutrality" by LastWeekTonight (13m 18s), 2,856,851 views, 44,185 likes and 428 dislikes. Uploaded 2014-06-02T06:30:01.000Z. mercutio: but it did make it sound more interesting than lots of things m0unds: had to drop my ipv6 tunnel. congested enough that netflix was only hitting 1.5mbit/sec, haha acf_: crap thats really not good m0unds: yea, typically i can max out my downstream (50mbps). meh.
via the tunnel, not w netflix acf_: nutflix lol
right mercutio: heh
he does make it sound more interesting than most people m0unds: netflix would do whatever their usual max bitrate is. 8-15mbit or so
there's an la weekly editorial that tears apart his whole argument
oh well. bbl. mercutio: m0unds: where?
acf: what do you think of it? acf_: almost done. but it's awesome mercutio: yeah
it's not that deep but it's accessible anisfarhana: mercutio: Not very high but it is good enough for me :) mercutio: anisfarhana: ahh you watched it too m0unds: i cant find the obnoxious one, but i think i had the sites mixed up. there was one at latimes.com that provided a little extra detail
.
http://www.latimes.com/opinion/opinion-la/la-ol-john-oliver-gets-net-neutrality-wrong-20140604-story.html
this was the milder one. i saw the other one at work, but cant remember where anisfarhana: mercutio: You don't want me to watch it? :( mercutio: nah you can watch it
i just thought acf was the only one who did :) ***: Mifta has joined #arpnetworks
Mifta has left mercutio: uhh newegg is considering bitcoin?
hmm, i notice t.co is on level3 but it seems to be on ntt too, and i noticed arp seems to have really high pings to it for some reason mnathani: whats at 1.1.1.1 or supposed to live there?