#arpnetworks 2014-06-06,Fri

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WhoWhatWhen
mercutioyeah i know but there are politics involved...
if it's not tweaking every little site but only the bigger providers then it's simpler config wise
and if it's that the as path length is the same for both, it could hop randomly if the weight is the same
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m0undsup_the_irons: 14.04 here, but mine are in enforce mode [06:25]
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acf_up_the_irons: fwiw, I emailed the NTT NOC a long time ago
idk if you've seen it
http://paste.unixcube.org/k/bb55b1
[10:22]
m0unds... http://dogeon.org/ [10:33]
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acf_it seems that the return path of level3 (level3 -> arp) goes through gblx and trit
http://paste.unixcube.org/k/e0c7ac
mercutio: I would think that since ARP and level3 are peered that it wouldn't go through trit
[12:46]
m0undsacf_: i've seen people mention that it's only outbound l3 right now
http://pastebin.com/k3meCyuJ acf_ - from a couple days ago
[12:51]
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acf_cool, thanks, didn't see that [12:53]
m0undssure thing, had to dig through my buffer to find it. wondered if i'd just imagined seeing it :) [12:54]
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brycecI too recall up_the_irons stating it's outbound only now, that ARP isn't yet announcing.
A nice gradual turn-up
[13:06]
m0undshttp://urbanvivant.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/turnip.jpg
yay. my headphone amp was repaired and is on its way back to me.
onboard audio makes me sad
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up_the_ironsm0unds: turns out i had the security driver set to "none" in the config; so commenting that out fixed the prob
acf_: i haven't announced our routes to level3 yet
it's all outbound
oh, all you guys already said outbound...
up_the_irons needs to read more scrollback before responding
[15:06]
staticsafe:) [15:09]
up_the_ironsacf_: read your email; so i take it Verizon didn't respond when you contacted them? [15:10]
m0undsup_the_irons: ah, gotcha
up_the_irons: noticed any difference in CPU load on the updated hosts?
[15:16]
up_the_ironsslightly lower [15:17]
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brycecI was working to counter that last night with a git-gc on a 1.5GB repo... Then again, i'm not on an updated host yet [16:23]
up_the_ironshaha [16:37]
acf_up_the_irons: yep. basically Verizon won't talk to you unless you're a transit customer or something
that's been my experience with them anyway
[16:39]
up_the_ironsaholes [16:39]
acf_yeah
I don't think they could/would have told me any more than NTT anyway though
[16:40]
mercutioup_the_irons: how do the as path lengths compare with verizon/comcast/etc? [16:42]
up_the_ironsmercutio: as path lengths of what? [16:43]
mercutioi do wonder if a lot are the samw
verizon ip's
umm
whatrever acf is tracing to
comcast.net is a good comcast example apparently
i can't remember acf's traceroute site :)
[16:43]
acf_http://kremvax.acfsys.net/smokeping.cgi?target=Remote.verizon-lsanca [16:44]
mercutiothat's a router
verizon.net
you shouldn't really make assumptions about routers cos of deprioritisation etc
[16:44]
acf_verizon.net actually takes a different return path [16:45]
mercutiohmm [16:45]
acf_if you look at the last 360 days graph [16:45]
mercutiobut yeah i do wonder if as path length is the same
hmm i have some verizon ip i'm smokepinging from nz
[16:45]
acf_acf_ goes to plug in DSL modem [16:46]
mercutiohmm there's loss atm [16:48]
acf_there's always loss [16:48]
mercutiofrom arp
but not from nz
[16:48]
acf_yep
oh
[16:48]
mercutioyeah from nz it's going via alter.net
which is verizon right?
[16:48]
acf_yep
what is going via alter.net?
[16:48]
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mercutiofrom my home
oh sweet kvr15 update is happening :)
i wonder whose ip this was
ae-0.verizonbusiness.lsanca03.us.bb.gin.ntt.net
the packet loss seems to start there
[17:08]
acf_same from arp [17:13]
mercutiothis is from arp
from home there's no loss :)
[17:15]
acf_ah, ok [17:15]
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[17:39]
mus1cb0xhow can i find out if my vps has acpi enabled? [17:40]
mercutioi think they all do
unless it's dos or something
what OS?
[17:40]
mus1cb0xfbsd 9.2 [17:41]
mercutioin openbsd it shows up in dmesg
yeh that should be fine
did you get emailed too? :)
[17:41]
mus1cb0xyeh
i guess we're server brothers
[17:42]
mercutioheh [17:42]
up_the_ironsLOL [17:42]
mercutiohe did say he was doing two servers [17:42]
mus1cb0xi'm on 14 [17:43]
up_the_ironsi'm actually doing three now [17:43]
mercutioim'm on 15
oh
[17:43]
up_the_ironsi have some extra time next week, so might as well bust out the upgrades [17:43]
mercutioup_the_irons: is it getting easier? [17:43]
mus1cb0x14 > 15 [17:43]
m0undsneighbors then [17:43]
up_the_ironsmercutio: it IS actually.. last few upgrades have went very smoothly, even faster than my estimated time in the maint advisory [17:43]
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mercutioi always overestimate times myself
just in case anything goes wrong
and because i usually underestimate by default
[17:44]
up_the_ironsyeah [17:44]
mercutiowe can't use virtio until there's a knob though right?
well without manual support request
[17:44]
mus1cb0xyou can modify the host OS without it affecting the disk partitions of the vpss? [17:45]
mercutiomus1cb0x: that's normal for virtualisation hosts.
the two are disconnected
[17:47]
mus1cb0xi wonder how deep you can nest that before things go weird
imaging a tight loop programmatically creating nested guest environments
[17:48]
m0undssome will run openvz inside kvm
qemu
[17:48]
mercutioad infinitium i imagine [17:48]
mus1cb0xyou could send a chinese hacker into a mirrorverse of insanity [17:48]
mercutioyou'd probably run out of memory though [17:49]
m0undsthe extra hw abstraction can help you work around bad hw support in kernels compatible w/openvz [17:49]
mercutioqemu doesn't need privileges for emulation
it also supports non intel cpus
[17:49]
m0undsyes, i run qemu on an opteron server [17:50]
mercutioprobably quite slowly.
m0unds: no, i mean like it can run on powerpc etc
and can emulate 68k etc
[17:50]
m0undsoh, non x86 [17:50]
mercutioxen is using qemu too
but qemu is actually supporeting lots of weird stuff, it's damn cool in a way
[17:51]
m0undsnot a big fan of xen-pv [17:51]
mus1cb0xbhyve is getting some nice upgrades this summer [17:52]
mercutioxen has a whole lot of new modes now
like hybrid stuff
modern cpus are not so quick in pv mode
[17:52]
m0undsyeah, but lots of hosts that run xen environments won't run w/hvm or whatever [17:52]
mercutioyeah there's somethign in between too [17:52]
m0undsso you're stuck with linux or obnoxiously unstable bsd [17:52]
mercutiowhich is better
well yeh i chose arp becauase of kvm and openbsd
err
kvm and ipv6
[17:52]
m0undsyep [17:53]
mercutiobecause i wanted to run openbsd [17:53]
mus1cb0xby openbsd i assume you mean freebsd [17:53]
m0undsright [17:53]
mercutioi don't use ipv6 though [17:53]
mus1cb0x;> [17:53]
mercutiooh location was theo ther reason [17:53]
mus1cb0xhaha [17:54]
mercutioi'm in new zealand, los angeles and san jose are the only two fsat places from here really [17:54]
m0undsi have a silly amount of unused referral credit w/another provider that i won't use until i can get bsd stable in their env [17:54]
mercutiowell low latency
i've run freebsd on xen fwiw
[17:54]
m0undsit runs fine in hvm [17:55]
mercutioand openbsd on vmware
it runs in pv mode too
[17:55]
m0undsit's terrible in xen-pv when your only option is pvgrub to bootstrap bsd
it's awful
[17:55]
mercutiobut it runs better in hvm mode
i was using pygrub i think?
it was on opensolaris
which doesn't have pvgrub , and is xen 3.4
oh having it's own cp is good too
i am kind of anti solusvm
[17:55]
m0undsyeah, solusvm is awful
the way it handles assigning ipv6 addresses is hilarious
you don't get a routable /64 or whatever, you get X number of addresses
so...8 or 16
or whatever the host chooses
[17:57]
mus1cb0xmercutio: i'd like to visit nz some day
m0unds: sounds very mcdonalds
[17:59]
mercutiomus1cb0x: heh
m0unds: it's also got lots of funky mysql and iptables stuff
if you want to do thigns like limit people to their own ip it's complicated by solusvm getting in the way with iptables
which means most solusvm hosts allow spoofing
most are just huge bridge domains too
so you get arps for a whole lot of random ip's
[18:01]
acf_Comcast cable kind of does the same thing
you see lots of arps for random IPs
[18:09]
mercutiocan you spoof? [18:09]
m0undsi think that's just the nature of cable networks [18:10]
acf_no [18:10]
m0undsno [18:10]
mercutiohow many /24s is it? [18:10]
acf_well, my netmask is /24 [18:10]
mercutiocable network in nz overloaded [18:10]
acf_and if I try to ping things in the same /24 [18:10]
mercutioand routers couldn't handle the number of arp requests
there was no standard router provided
[18:10]
acf_the cable network gateway will spoof its mac address for the ARP replies [18:11]
mercutiobut it meant lots of people's internet died completely in evening
yeah i had /24 on cable
it was nice that you could just plug it into a pc
[18:11]
acf_same with Verizon DSL here kind of [18:12]
mercutioset an ip and gateway and you were off
verizon is vdsl now right?
[18:12]
acf_except Verizon caches your MAC address for DHCP, so you can't change computers without calling them first
or spoofing the MAC of course
[18:12]
mercutiowith some shitty router that everyone puts their own one after [18:12]
acf_no, ADSL
2
[18:12]
mercutiooh weird
i'm sure i had a friend who went comcast -> verizon -> comcast
comcast was higher latency apparently
[18:12]
acf_that's kind of hard to believe [18:13]
mercutioand only like 30 megabit
he was in kansas
[18:13]
acf_Verizon DSL sucks crap [18:13]
m0undsi think vz can offer vdsl2 if you're close to their gear [18:13]
mercutiooh [18:13]
m0undslike..sub 1000ft loop length [18:13]
mercutioi meant verizon was oops
sorry!
[18:13]
acf_I'm less than that from their CO [18:13]
mercutioand comcast was 50 megabit i think? [18:13]
m0undsold dslams maybe in that facility
where in the US are you?
[18:13]
acf_central coast of california
93455
old GTE territory
[18:14]
m0undshuh, weird - business i used to work at had vdsl service in huntington beach area ca [18:14]
mercutioheh i have friend in san jose, and he said comcast was pretty bad
but it's basically comcast or at&t
i suppose comcast is better than at&t
[18:14]
m0undscomcast is in the middle of doubling residential speeds again [18:15]
acf_at least they actually upgrade their network sometimes [18:15]
mercutiohe has heaps of jitter
and really high pings to cogent
it's about 50 msec pings to san jose from san jose
over cogent
[18:15]
acf_peering congestion you think? [18:16]
mercutiothis was a while ago [18:16]
m0undsthe routing is probably goofy [18:16]
mercutiobefore the netflix peering
routing looked fine
it's probably the netflix/cogent/comcast dispute
[18:16]
m0undswouldn't have surprised me if it went SJC>LAX>Cogent>SJC or something [18:16]
mercutiofor some reasno people call it the netflix issue
but it affects other traffic too
[18:17]
acf_my mtr to cogentco.com: http://paste.unixcube.org/k/efacc8 [18:17]
mercutionah it didn't [18:17]
m0undsyeah [18:17]
mercutioit did over 3mb/sec to los angeles though
on 25 megabit plan
mci
ok it wasn't that broken
[18:17]
m0undshahaha [18:18]
mercutioi've seen that from cogent to at&t
oh that's to cogent's website
try sj.meh.net.nz
[18:18]
acf_via nlayer [18:19]
mercutiooh [18:19]
acf_http://paste.unixcube.org/k/ea49f6 [18:19]
mercutiook that's bbetter
it was going via comcast before
[18:19]
m0undscogent denver pop -> albuquerque, nm (460mi) is 55ms [18:19]
mercutiomaybe they stopped sending via cogent when netflix paid money [18:19]
m0undscogent LAX pop -> albuquerque = 27ms
800mi
[18:20]
mercutiohmm that ping is still kind of high though
what do you get to arp?
[18:20]
m0unds28ms [18:21]
mercutiohe got lower ping than that to arp [18:21]
acf_http://paste.unixcube.org/k/7cabf5 [18:21]
mercutioi don't really know what santamaria is
he was in santa clara?
[18:21]
acf_right next to santa barbara [18:21]
mercutiobut they prob not close [18:21]
acf_right in the middle of lax and sfo [18:21]
m0undsnice area of ca [18:21]
mercutiooh [18:22]
acf_my Verizon traffic goes via lax [18:22]
m0undsi've spent a fair amount of time in ventura & carpinteria for work [18:22]
mercutioso the issue is that there's no peering there
and it has to go to sj/la
or both
[18:22]
acf_and my Comcast trafic goes via sj
yeah
[18:22]
mercutioweird google says santa marisa is in crazil
santa maria brazil
i can't type
[18:22]
m0undshttp://binged.it/1i9ZuWW [18:23]
BryceBothttp://binged.it/1i9ZuWW -> https://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&where1=Santa Maria, CA&form=LMLTSN&cp=34.95372009277341~-120.4355697631836&lvl=12&sty=r&encType=1 [18:23]
mercutiooh i see where it is now
that does look nice
it looks samll though
[18:23]
m0undsi like that area of ca a lot [18:24]
acf_it's pretty nice :) [18:24]
m0undslast time i went was last june, it was 65 every day
so nice
[18:24]
mercutiodoes it rain there? [18:24]
acf_we're in a pretty bad drought right now
so not much
[18:24]
mercutiothat's the most disturbing thing about california to me [18:25]
acf_yeah, it is pretty bothersome
it was a lot better some years ago
[18:25]
mercutiowow
it rains over 100 times more here than there
[18:26]
m0undsa good friend of mine used to work for the UCSB NOC a few years back [18:26]
mercutio1,212.4 inches per year, compared to 14.01 inches per year [18:27]
m0undshaha [18:27]
mercutioso yeah it seems a ltitle disoncerting :) [18:27]
acf_http://goo.gl/Bw1jei
the local CO
[18:27]
BryceBothttp://goo.gl/Bw1jei -> https://www.google.com/maps/@34.883954,-120.418628,3a,75y,91.38h,85.04t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1scvaM7PWqCG7UQ9E4kfPquQ!2e0 [18:27]
m0undswait..
1,212 inches = 100ft of rain
[18:27]
mercutionorthern california rains more? [18:27]
m0undshaha [18:27]
mercutiotahts' per year [18:27]
m0undsmm
wikipedia shows inches in parenthesis
1212.4mm
[18:28]
mercutiooh it's precipitation vs rainfall
is that the same thing
[18:28]
m0undsyes
the parenthesis is 47.732"
[18:28]
mercutiooh i fucked up didn't i
yes
[18:28]
m0undsbackwards, lol [18:28]
mercutiothey swapped it aruond [18:29]
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mercutioi was trying to use inches for US audience :/ [18:29]
m0undsyeah, i think because you're metric and we're lame [18:29]
mercutiosorry
well i expected wikipedia to be constant
ok that difference isnt' so bad
it's just 4x as much
[18:29]
m0undswe get 9.45 in/yr [18:30]
mercutioi'd rather 14 :/ [18:30]
m0undsyou and i both [18:30]
mercutioi dunno [18:30]
m0undshaha [18:30]
mercutiohaha [18:30]
m0undsi'm also in the desert [18:30]
mercutionice
when i was younger i thought it'd be cool to get a job in the US
but you need work visa and to work for one company for ages :/
[18:30]
m0undsmy house is at ~1800m above sea level [18:31]
mercutiomy friend did it by shifting within the same company to a diff country
but it ook him two attempts
[18:31]
m0undsyeah, it's a pain [18:32]
mercutiothere wsa some paperwork error or something [18:32]
m0undsi have a friend who's finishing up her fellowships in the US as a pediatric orthopedic surgeon
and they're still not going to let her stay, she has to return to brazil at the end of the year
[18:32]
mercutioand you can't fix it you have to wait until next year? [18:32]
m0undsyeah, it's a bureaucratic mess [18:32]
mercutiodamn [18:32]
m0undslegal immigration into the us is gross [18:33]
mercutioi wonder how he managed it [18:33]
m0undsanother friend got married in canada, and it took 6 months for his wife to legally immigrate to the US
and ~$5k in attorney fees
[18:33]
mercutioouch
he must have done it properly because he bought a house
[18:33]
m0undsand hours upon hours at US consulates for meetings with immigration clerks and stuff [18:33]
mercutioapparently there's ths really exepensive grooming thing for houses when they sell
and therew as like a video walk through and stuff
that doesn't happen here at all
but it was actualyl cheaper than i thought it'd be
[18:34]
m0undshuh [18:34]
mercutiothey show this video of the house
going through all the rooms
with music
and panning
[18:34]
m0undshahaha, yeah, i've seen that before [18:35]
mercutioand everything looks so neat and tidy
and sterile
[18:35]
m0undsyeah, they "stage" the house
sometimes they do it empty, sometimes they rent furniture and set it up so you can get an idea of what it'd look like if you lived there
[18:35]
mercutiooh that's the term yes [18:37]
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m0undsoh, great
my smokeping graph looks like acf_'s verizon one
hahaha
yeah, seeing roughly 2x the latency at this hop 10. ge0-arpnet.cust.lax07.mzima.net
looks like it's been like this daily since the 3rd
[20:38]
staticsafehttps://twitter.com/j_smedley/status/475023041106169856 :O [20:45]
BryceBotTWITTER: looking good for a Waterson and Mattherson merge. (Fri Jun 06 21:14:53 +0000 2014, retweeted 50 times) [20:45]
mnathanidid anyone not on kvr15 get a maintenance announcement for kvr15 ? [20:57]
milkii didnt notice anything [21:04]
mercutiokvr14 is goiung down too
and somethjing else
[21:04]
acf_m0unds: mind revealing the source destination network/host?
/s/source destination/source/
[21:15]
mercutio(i'm on kvr15 so don't know if they all say that) [21:17]
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acf_m0unds are you on Comcast?
http://kremvax.acfsys.net/smokeping.cgi?target=Local.phoenix
that is rather upsetting
crap now comcast <-> nlayer is bad...
or is it comcast <-> ntt?
my forward path is via nlayer
and return is via ntt
from Comcast's perspective
hmm if you're seeing loss at ge0-arpnet.cust.lax07.mzima.net
it makes me think ntt
because ntt becomes the return path at that hop
[21:35]
definitely NTT: http://paste.unixcube.org/k/65f903 [21:52]
m0undssorry, was commuting home - i'm on comcast biz
it's nlayer inbound from comcast -> arp
and return path is via ntt
and i think it's ntt
it stops being problematic at precisely midnight mdt
[22:01]
acf_more peering problems I assume... [22:05]
m0undsguessing so
starts at the same time
ends at the same time
[22:05]
acf_I'll email NTT again
not that it'll help any
[22:05]
m0undsare you seeing this stuff starting at around 1530ish PDT?
it starts for me at 1630 mdt, ends at midnight +/- 5minutes
[22:06]
acf_yepyep
http://kremvax.acfsys.net/smokeping.cgi?epoch_start=1402038000;hierarchy=;epoch_end=1402124340;target=Local.phoenix;displaymode=n;start=2014-06-06%2000%3A00;end=2014-06-06%2023%3A59;Generate%21=Generate%21
[22:07]
m0undsmine's just as smooth before that too, haha
very little jitter
[22:07]
acf_I've been noticing problems with voip lately
probably that
[22:08]
m0undsugh [22:09]
acf_up_the_irons: maybe you should see this [22:09]
.... (idle for 17mn)
strange
Level3 appears to have a shorter AS path to Comcast than NTT
http://paste.unixcube.org/k/83497d
vs
http://paste.unixcube.org/k/6f24b0
or it's the same... I think I misread
but Level3 looks like NTT when it's congestion-free
[22:26]
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mercutioacf: i found something from last year on google with ntt/verizon :/
it's probably the same
[23:02]
acf_meaning the issue has been ongoing for at least a year? [23:02]
mercutiothat's not as path
the AS path should end in 7922
with the network prior, like 3356 appearing
where 3356 is level3
like i can see routes for 701 and 3356
can't see what arp sees :/
[23:02]
acf_hmm ok [23:04]
mercutioand 701/703 is verizon
need a looking glass
well don't need, but would mean coudl see what they see
hmm
so verizon have 703 and 701 in the AS Path
and level 3 just has 3356
but it's interesting that it's both comcast and verizon having issues
i wonder if they're working together
because they both had netflix issues too
in a similar fashion
[23:05]
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[23:51]

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