#arpnetworks 2014-06-06,Fri

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When

mercutio

yeah i know but there are politics involved...
if it's not tweaking every little site but only the bigger providers then it's simpler config wise
and if it's that the as path length is the same for both, it could hop randomly if the weight is the same

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[06:23]

m0unds

up_the_irons: 14.04 here, but mine are in enforce mode

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acf_

up_the_irons: fwiw, I emailed the NTT NOC a long time ago
idk if you've seen it
http://paste.unixcube.org/k/bb55b1

[10:22]

m0unds

... http://dogeon.org/

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acf_

it seems that the return path of level3 (level3 -> arp) goes through gblx and trit
http://paste.unixcube.org/k/e0c7ac
mercutio: I would think that since ARP and level3 are peered that it wouldn't go through trit

[12:46]

m0unds

acf_: i've seen people mention that it's only outbound l3 right now

http://pastebin.com/k3meCyuJ acf_ - from a couple days ago

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[12:52]

acf_

cool, thanks, didn't see that

[12:53]

m0unds

sure thing, had to dig through my buffer to find it. wondered if i'd just imagined seeing it :)

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[12:55]

brycec

I too recall up_the_irons stating it's outbound only now, that ARP isn't yet announcing.
A nice gradual turn-up

[13:06]

m0unds

http://urbanvivant.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/turnip.jpg
yay. my headphone amp was repaired and is on its way back to me.
onboard audio makes me sad

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up_the_irons

m0unds: turns out i had the security driver set to "none" in the config; so commenting that out fixed the prob
acf_: i haven't announced our routes to level3 yet
it's all outbound
oh, all you guys already said outbound...
up_the_irons needs to read more scrollback before responding

[15:06]

staticsafe

[15:09]

up_the_irons

acf_: read your email; so i take it Verizon didn't respond when you contacted them?

[15:10]

m0unds

up_the_irons: ah, gotcha
up_the_irons: noticed any difference in CPU load on the updated hosts?

[15:16]

up_the_irons

slightly lower

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brycec

I was working to counter that last night with a git-gc on a 1.5GB repo... Then again, i'm not on an updated host yet

[16:23]

up_the_irons

haha

[16:37]

acf_

up_the_irons: yep. basically Verizon won't talk to you unless you're a transit customer or something
that's been my experience with them anyway

[16:39]

up_the_irons

aholes

[16:39]

acf_

yeah
I don't think they could/would have told me any more than NTT anyway though

[16:40]

mercutio

up_the_irons: how do the as path lengths compare with verizon/comcast/etc?

[16:42]

up_the_irons

mercutio: as path lengths of what?

[16:43]

mercutio

i do wonder if a lot are the samw
verizon ip's
umm
whatrever acf is tracing to
comcast.net is a good comcast example apparently
i can't remember acf's traceroute site :)

[16:43]

acf_

http://kremvax.acfsys.net/smokeping.cgi?target=Remote.verizon-lsanca

[16:44]

mercutio

that's a router
verizon.net
you shouldn't really make assumptions about routers cos of deprioritisation etc

[16:44]

acf_

verizon.net actually takes a different return path

[16:45]

mercutio

hmm

[16:45]

acf_

if you look at the last 360 days graph

[16:45]

mercutio

but yeah i do wonder if as path length is the same
hmm i have some verizon ip i'm smokepinging from nz

[16:45]

acf_

acf_ goes to plug in DSL modem

[16:46]

mercutio

hmm there's loss atm

[16:48]

acf_

there's always loss

[16:48]

mercutio

from arp
but not from nz

[16:48]

acf_

yep
oh

[16:48]

mercutio

yeah from nz it's going via alter.net
which is verizon right?

[16:48]

acf_

yep
what is going via alter.net?

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mercutio

from my home
oh sweet kvr15 update is happening :)
i wonder whose ip this was
ae-0.verizonbusiness.lsanca03.us.bb.gin.ntt.net
the packet loss seems to start there

[17:08]

acf_

same from arp

[17:13]

mercutio

this is from arp
from home there's no loss :)

[17:15]

acf_

ah, ok

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[17:39]

mus1cb0x

how can i find out if my vps has acpi enabled?

[17:40]

mercutio

i think they all do
unless it's dos or something
what OS?

[17:40]

mus1cb0x

fbsd 9.2

[17:41]

mercutio

in openbsd it shows up in dmesg
yeh that should be fine
did you get emailed too? :)

[17:41]

mus1cb0x

yeh
i guess we're server brothers

[17:42]

mercutio

heh

[17:42]

up_the_irons

LOL

[17:42]

mercutio

he did say he was doing two servers

[17:42]

mus1cb0x

i'm on 14

[17:43]

up_the_irons

i'm actually doing three now

[17:43]

mercutio

im'm on 15
oh

[17:43]

up_the_irons

i have some extra time next week, so might as well bust out the upgrades

[17:43]

mercutio

up_the_irons: is it getting easier?

[17:43]

mus1cb0x

14 > 15

[17:43]

m0unds

neighbors then

[17:43]

up_the_irons

mercutio: it IS actually.. last few upgrades have went very smoothly, even faster than my estimated time in the maint advisory

[17:43]

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[17:43]

mercutio

i always overestimate times myself
just in case anything goes wrong
and because i usually underestimate by default

[17:44]

up_the_irons

yeah

[17:44]

mercutio

we can't use virtio until there's a knob though right?
well without manual support request

[17:44]

mus1cb0x

you can modify the host OS without it affecting the disk partitions of the vpss?

[17:45]

mercutio

mus1cb0x: that's normal for virtualisation hosts.
the two are disconnected

[17:47]

mus1cb0x

i wonder how deep you can nest that before things go weird
imaging a tight loop programmatically creating nested guest environments

[17:48]

m0unds

some will run openvz inside kvm
qemu

[17:48]

mercutio

ad infinitium i imagine

[17:48]

mus1cb0x

you could send a chinese hacker into a mirrorverse of insanity

[17:48]

mercutio

you'd probably run out of memory though

[17:49]

m0unds

the extra hw abstraction can help you work around bad hw support in kernels compatible w/openvz

[17:49]

mercutio

qemu doesn't need privileges for emulation
it also supports non intel cpus

[17:49]

m0unds

yes, i run qemu on an opteron server

[17:50]

mercutio

probably quite slowly.
m0unds: no, i mean like it can run on powerpc etc
and can emulate 68k etc

[17:50]

m0unds

oh, non x86

[17:50]

mercutio

xen is using qemu too
but qemu is actually supporeting lots of weird stuff, it's damn cool in a way

[17:51]

m0unds

not a big fan of xen-pv

[17:51]

mus1cb0x

bhyve is getting some nice upgrades this summer

[17:52]

mercutio

xen has a whole lot of new modes now
like hybrid stuff
modern cpus are not so quick in pv mode

[17:52]

m0unds

yeah, but lots of hosts that run xen environments won't run w/hvm or whatever

[17:52]

mercutio

yeah there's somethign in between too

[17:52]

m0unds

so you're stuck with linux or obnoxiously unstable bsd

[17:52]

mercutio

which is better
well yeh i chose arp becauase of kvm and openbsd
err
kvm and ipv6

[17:52]

m0unds

yep

[17:53]

mercutio

because i wanted to run openbsd

[17:53]

mus1cb0x

by openbsd i assume you mean freebsd

[17:53]

m0unds

right

[17:53]

mercutio

i don't use ipv6 though

[17:53]

mus1cb0x

[17:53]

mercutio

oh location was theo ther reason

[17:53]

mus1cb0x

haha

[17:54]

mercutio

i'm in new zealand, los angeles and san jose are the only two fsat places from here really

[17:54]

m0unds

i have a silly amount of unused referral credit w/another provider that i won't use until i can get bsd stable in their env

[17:54]

mercutio

well low latency
i've run freebsd on xen fwiw

[17:54]

m0unds

it runs fine in hvm

[17:55]

mercutio

and openbsd on vmware
it runs in pv mode too

[17:55]

m0unds

it's terrible in xen-pv when your only option is pvgrub to bootstrap bsd
it's awful

[17:55]

mercutio

but it runs better in hvm mode
i was using pygrub i think?
it was on opensolaris
which doesn't have pvgrub , and is xen 3.4
oh having it's own cp is good too
i am kind of anti solusvm

[17:55]

m0unds

yeah, solusvm is awful
the way it handles assigning ipv6 addresses is hilarious
you don't get a routable /64 or whatever, you get X number of addresses
so...8 or 16
or whatever the host chooses

[17:57]

mus1cb0x

mercutio: i'd like to visit nz some day
m0unds: sounds very mcdonalds

[17:59]

mercutio

mus1cb0x: heh
m0unds: it's also got lots of funky mysql and iptables stuff
if you want to do thigns like limit people to their own ip it's complicated by solusvm getting in the way with iptables
which means most solusvm hosts allow spoofing
most are just huge bridge domains too
so you get arps for a whole lot of random ip's

[18:01]

acf_

Comcast cable kind of does the same thing
you see lots of arps for random IPs

[18:09]

mercutio

can you spoof?

[18:09]

m0unds

i think that's just the nature of cable networks

[18:10]

acf_

[18:10]

m0unds

[18:10]

mercutio

how many /24s is it?

[18:10]

acf_

well, my netmask is /24

[18:10]

mercutio

cable network in nz overloaded

[18:10]

acf_

and if I try to ping things in the same /24

[18:10]

mercutio

and routers couldn't handle the number of arp requests
there was no standard router provided

[18:10]

acf_

the cable network gateway will spoof its mac address for the ARP replies

[18:11]

mercutio

but it meant lots of people's internet died completely in evening
yeah i had /24 on cable
it was nice that you could just plug it into a pc

[18:11]

acf_

same with Verizon DSL here kind of

[18:12]

mercutio

set an ip and gateway and you were off
verizon is vdsl now right?

[18:12]

acf_

except Verizon caches your MAC address for DHCP, so you can't change computers without calling them first
or spoofing the MAC of course

[18:12]

mercutio

with some shitty router that everyone puts their own one after

[18:12]

acf_

no, ADSL
2

[18:12]

mercutio

oh weird
i'm sure i had a friend who went comcast -> verizon -> comcast
comcast was higher latency apparently

[18:12]

acf_

that's kind of hard to believe

[18:13]

mercutio

and only like 30 megabit
he was in kansas

[18:13]

acf_

Verizon DSL sucks crap

[18:13]

m0unds

i think vz can offer vdsl2 if you're close to their gear

[18:13]

mercutio

[18:13]

m0unds

like..sub 1000ft loop length

[18:13]

mercutio

i meant verizon was oops
sorry!

[18:13]

acf_

I'm less than that from their CO

[18:13]

mercutio

and comcast was 50 megabit i think?

[18:13]

m0unds

old dslams maybe in that facility
where in the US are you?

[18:13]

acf_

central coast of california
93455
old GTE territory

[18:14]

m0unds

huh, weird - business i used to work at had vdsl service in huntington beach area ca

[18:14]

mercutio

heh i have friend in san jose, and he said comcast was pretty bad
but it's basically comcast or at&t
i suppose comcast is better than at&t

[18:14]

m0unds

comcast is in the middle of doubling residential speeds again

[18:15]

acf_

at least they actually upgrade their network sometimes

[18:15]

mercutio

he has heaps of jitter
and really high pings to cogent
it's about 50 msec pings to san jose from san jose
over cogent

[18:15]

acf_

peering congestion you think?

[18:16]

mercutio

this was a while ago

[18:16]

m0unds

the routing is probably goofy

[18:16]

mercutio

before the netflix peering
routing looked fine
it's probably the netflix/cogent/comcast dispute

[18:16]

m0unds

wouldn't have surprised me if it went SJC>LAX>Cogent>SJC or something

[18:16]

mercutio

for some reasno people call it the netflix issue
but it affects other traffic too

[18:17]

acf_

my mtr to cogentco.com: http://paste.unixcube.org/k/efacc8

[18:17]

mercutio

nah it didn't

[18:17]

m0unds

yeah

[18:17]

mercutio

it did over 3mb/sec to los angeles though
on 25 megabit plan
mci
ok it wasn't that broken

[18:17]

m0unds

hahaha

[18:18]

mercutio

i've seen that from cogent to at&t
oh that's to cogent's website
try sj.meh.net.nz

[18:18]

acf_

via nlayer

[18:19]

mercutio

[18:19]

acf_

http://paste.unixcube.org/k/ea49f6

[18:19]

mercutio

ok that's bbetter
it was going via comcast before

[18:19]

m0unds

cogent denver pop -> albuquerque, nm (460mi) is 55ms

[18:19]

mercutio

maybe they stopped sending via cogent when netflix paid money

[18:19]

m0unds

cogent LAX pop -> albuquerque = 27ms
800mi

[18:20]

mercutio

hmm that ping is still kind of high though
what do you get to arp?

[18:20]

m0unds

28ms

[18:21]

mercutio

he got lower ping than that to arp

[18:21]

acf_

http://paste.unixcube.org/k/7cabf5

[18:21]

mercutio

i don't really know what santamaria is
he was in santa clara?

[18:21]

acf_

right next to santa barbara

[18:21]

mercutio

but they prob not close

[18:21]

acf_

right in the middle of lax and sfo

[18:21]

m0unds

nice area of ca

[18:21]

mercutio

[18:22]

acf_

my Verizon traffic goes via lax

[18:22]

m0unds

i've spent a fair amount of time in ventura & carpinteria for work

[18:22]

mercutio

so the issue is that there's no peering there
and it has to go to sj/la
or both

[18:22]

acf_

and my Comcast trafic goes via sj
yeah

[18:22]

mercutio

weird google says santa marisa is in crazil
santa maria brazil
i can't type

[18:22]

m0unds

http://binged.it/1i9ZuWW

[18:23]

BryceBot

http://binged.it/1i9ZuWW -> https://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&where1=Santa Maria, CA&form=LMLTSN&cp=34.95372009277341~-120.4355697631836&lvl=12&sty=r&encType=1

[18:23]

mercutio

oh i see where it is now
that does look nice
it looks samll though

[18:23]

m0unds

i like that area of ca a lot

[18:24]

acf_

it's pretty nice :)

[18:24]

m0unds

last time i went was last june, it was 65 every day
so nice

[18:24]

mercutio

does it rain there?

[18:24]

acf_

we're in a pretty bad drought right now
so not much

[18:24]

mercutio

that's the most disturbing thing about california to me

[18:25]

acf_

yeah, it is pretty bothersome
it was a lot better some years ago

[18:25]

mercutio

wow
it rains over 100 times more here than there

[18:26]

m0unds

a good friend of mine used to work for the UCSB NOC a few years back

[18:26]

mercutio

1,212.4 inches per year, compared to 14.01 inches per year

[18:27]

m0unds

haha

[18:27]

mercutio

so yeah it seems a ltitle disoncerting :)

[18:27]

acf_

http://goo.gl/Bw1jei
the local CO

[18:27]

BryceBot

http://goo.gl/Bw1jei -> https://www.google.com/maps/@34.883954,-120.418628,3a,75y,91.38h,85.04t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1scvaM7PWqCG7UQ9E4kfPquQ!2e0

[18:27]

m0unds

wait..
1,212 inches = 100ft of rain

[18:27]

mercutio

northern california rains more?

[18:27]

m0unds

haha

[18:27]

mercutio

tahts' per year

[18:27]

m0unds

mm
wikipedia shows inches in parenthesis
1212.4mm

[18:28]

mercutio

oh it's precipitation vs rainfall
is that the same thing

[18:28]

m0unds

yes
the parenthesis is 47.732"

[18:28]

mercutio

oh i fucked up didn't i
yes

[18:28]

m0unds

backwards, lol

[18:28]

mercutio

they swapped it aruond

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[18:29]

mercutio

i was trying to use inches for US audience :/

[18:29]

m0unds

yeah, i think because you're metric and we're lame

[18:29]

mercutio

sorry
well i expected wikipedia to be constant
ok that difference isnt' so bad
it's just 4x as much

[18:29]

m0unds

we get 9.45 in/yr

[18:30]

mercutio

i'd rather 14 :/

[18:30]

m0unds

you and i both

[18:30]

mercutio

i dunno

[18:30]

m0unds

haha

[18:30]

mercutio

haha

[18:30]

m0unds

i'm also in the desert

[18:30]

mercutio

nice
when i was younger i thought it'd be cool to get a job in the US
but you need work visa and to work for one company for ages :/

[18:30]

m0unds

my house is at ~1800m above sea level

[18:31]

mercutio

my friend did it by shifting within the same company to a diff country
but it ook him two attempts

[18:31]

m0unds

yeah, it's a pain

[18:32]

mercutio

there wsa some paperwork error or something

[18:32]

m0unds

i have a friend who's finishing up her fellowships in the US as a pediatric orthopedic surgeon
and they're still not going to let her stay, she has to return to brazil at the end of the year

[18:32]

mercutio

and you can't fix it you have to wait until next year?

[18:32]

m0unds

yeah, it's a bureaucratic mess

[18:32]

mercutio

damn

[18:32]

m0unds

legal immigration into the us is gross

[18:33]

mercutio

i wonder how he managed it

[18:33]

m0unds

another friend got married in canada, and it took 6 months for his wife to legally immigrate to the US
and ~$5k in attorney fees

[18:33]

mercutio

ouch
he must have done it properly because he bought a house

[18:33]

m0unds

and hours upon hours at US consulates for meetings with immigration clerks and stuff

[18:33]

mercutio

apparently there's ths really exepensive grooming thing for houses when they sell
and therew as like a video walk through and stuff
that doesn't happen here at all
but it was actualyl cheaper than i thought it'd be

[18:34]

m0unds

huh

[18:34]

mercutio

they show this video of the house
going through all the rooms
with music
and panning

[18:34]

m0unds

hahaha, yeah, i've seen that before

[18:35]

mercutio

and everything looks so neat and tidy
and sterile

[18:35]

m0unds

yeah, they "stage" the house
sometimes they do it empty, sometimes they rent furniture and set it up so you can get an idea of what it'd look like if you lived there

[18:35]

mercutio

oh that's the term yes

[18:37]

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m0unds

oh, great
my smokeping graph looks like acf_'s verizon one
hahaha
yeah, seeing roughly 2x the latency at this hop 10. ge0-arpnet.cust.lax07.mzima.net
looks like it's been like this daily since the 3rd

[20:38]

staticsafe

https://twitter.com/j_smedley/status/475023041106169856 :O

[20:45]

BryceBot

TWITTER: looking good for a Waterson and Mattherson merge. (Fri Jun 06 21:14:53 +0000 2014, retweeted 50 times)

[20:45]

mnathani

did anyone not on kvr15 get a maintenance announcement for kvr15 ?

[20:57]

milki

i didnt notice anything

[21:04]

mercutio

kvr14 is goiung down too
and somethjing else

[21:04]

acf_

m0unds: mind revealing the source destination network/host?
/s/source destination/source/

[21:15]

mercutio

(i'm on kvr15 so don't know if they all say that)

[21:17]

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acf_

m0unds are you on Comcast?
http://kremvax.acfsys.net/smokeping.cgi?target=Local.phoenix
that is rather upsetting
crap now comcast <-> nlayer is bad...
or is it comcast <-> ntt?
my forward path is via nlayer
and return is via ntt
from Comcast's perspective
hmm if you're seeing loss at ge0-arpnet.cust.lax07.mzima.net
it makes me think ntt
because ntt becomes the return path at that hop

[21:35]

definitely NTT: http://paste.unixcube.org/k/65f903

[21:52]

m0unds

sorry, was commuting home - i'm on comcast biz
it's nlayer inbound from comcast -> arp
and return path is via ntt
and i think it's ntt
it stops being problematic at precisely midnight mdt

[22:01]

acf_