#arpnetworks 2014-05-23,Fri

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WhoWhatWhen
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mercutiobryce?
you have a strange alias 		[07:06]
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m0undshahaha [07:33]
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brycecmercutio: ?
Oh, the KILLALLHUMANS01 nick
I have some great nicks... 		[08:02]
staticsafeheh [08:03]
brycecA few of my other favourites: IM_AWESOME the_cheat Always_Batman lpr0 [08:03]
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lprlpr on fire [08:04]
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lpr0lpr0 on fire
there we go 		[08:04]
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RandalSchwartzmy nick is boring :) [08:04]
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milkilolol [08:34]
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up_the_ironsso Ubuntu is going to systemd just like Debian, fml [12:50]
m0undshaha
it's not that bad 		[12:50]
up_the_ironsbinary logs? can't even tail shit without a tool. no thanks
bloat bloat bloat
it's like GRUB
i just wanna fucking boot my machine, and you (grub) make it so difficult because you tried to tackle every other fucking problem on earth, making it horrible just to boot my system
if i want to boot a FreeBSD system, it's "fdisk -BI ad0" and CALL IT A DAY. it works as intended. *nix philosophy, do one simple thing and do it right 		[12:51]
m0undsit appears as though systemd still provides a socket to give you the ability to bind your syslogger to a socket and write logs to discrete files on disk vs the journal
i mean, it'll still write to the journal, but it'll also allow you to write to log files 		[12:57]
up_the_ironssee, reading that make me vomit a little in my mouth
*made 		[13:01]
m0undshaha [13:01]
plettup_the_irons: As a Linux user looking in on FreeBSD from the outside, it looks equally crazy. It has three distinct firewalls with incompatible syntaxes, and kernel modules and userland tools for all of them in the base image. [13:01]
m0undspf or gtfo [13:02]
up_the_ironsi understand what you're saying, but it so f'in overkill. it should not be necessary to jump through those hoops just to log in text. [13:02]
m0undsretrieving a specific log from the journal isn't terribly painful though - journalctl -u nginx = nginx logs [13:02]
up_the_ironsplett: i thought everyone used pf... [13:02]
m0undsyeah, i don't know anyone who uses bsd who doesn't use pf [13:02]
plettup_the_irons: ipfw and ipf are also there and supported [13:03]
m0undsipfw back in the day maybe [13:03]
up_the_ironsyeah but who uses ipfw and ipf anymore? [13:03]
m0undspf is so well documented and designed, there's no reason not to use it
but if you want to, it's there 		[13:03]
up_the_ironsdon't get me wrong, freebsd isn't immune to this problem; it's just less [13:03]
plettAnd yes, pf is lovely
I've been told that the journald binary logging stuff isn't tightly tied to systemd, and that you can just run a good old syslogd instead 		[13:04]
up_the_ironsi c [13:09]
m0undsis there any practical reason that iptables doesn't have ipv6 support built in vs using ip6tables?
i always use ufw or afp or whatever to manage iptables rules because i hate the syntax
s/afp/apf 		[13:10]
BryceBot<m0unds> i always use ufw or apf or whatever to manage iptables rules because i hate the syntax [13:11]
staticsafeI suppose now is a bad time to link this - http://www.openbsdfoundation.org/gsoc2014.html#systemd [13:17]
brycecha
One nice thing about the journal, up_the_irons et al, is that it makes it easy to pull specific timeframes. 		[13:17]
staticsafeindeed [13:18]
up_the_ironsah that is indeed useful [13:19]
m0undsi like the boot logging functionality - you can query current boot, previous boot, boot prev to that, etc [13:20]
staticsafelinux has a new netfilter API called nftables, apparently the syntax is quite nicer [13:23]
m0undsah [13:23]
staticsafehttp://netfilter.org/projects/nftables/ [13:23]
plettstaticsafe: I read through some of the example syntax a while ago, it's still nowhere near as nice as pf [13:23]
staticsafeyeah
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Nftables certainly much nicer than iptables though 		[13:24]
brycec<3 pf syntax, soooooo readable :D [13:25]
m0undsthat's junos-ish [13:25]
up_the_ironsi never use iptables directly, always through ferm. <3 ferm
tree-based rules, basically 		[13:25]
staticsafehttp://ferm.foo-projects.org/ interesting [13:26]
up_the_ironsi've used it for years [13:26]
m0undsoh, that's neat [13:26]
up_the_ironslooks like nftables has a tree-like syntax too [13:28]
staticsafeyeah [13:28]
brycecbrycec lazies out and uses ufw for his iptables systems [13:28]
m0undsbrycec: that's what i use most of the time [13:29]
staticsafestaticsafe doesn't have any firewall rules on his VMs [13:29]
m0undsHERESY [13:29]
staticsafeother than the occasional DROP rule for some abuser [13:29]
brycecI didn't used to either, just kept services listening on the right ports. But then there were some services I couldn't configure quite like that [13:30]
staticsafelike mysql? :P
RouterOS firewall sytax is a bit weird but consistent with the rest of the system 		[13:30]
m0undsyea, it's not bad to manage [13:33]
staticsafeadd action=log chain=forward comment="Filter port 25 outbound" dst-address=::/0 dst-port=25 log-prefix=SMTPOUTBOUND protocol=tcp src-address=::/0 [13:33]
m0undsthey finally stopped doing stupid shit like changing syntax between releases and things [13:33]
brycecstaticsafe: nah mysql is easy to bind to an interface, or not bind at all (socket only) [13:34]
staticsafeah [13:34]
brycec(can't remember what it was though... oh well) [13:34]
staticsafeCisco IOS ACLs ugh [13:36]
m0undsyuck [13:36]
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yay, lightning [15:07]
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dneup_the_irons: re: grub - try syslinux (or extlinux) instead [15:45]
up_the_ironsi c [15:45]
dnedne uses it even w/ freebsd
e.g. to multiboot between root-on-ZFS and mfsbsd: https://gist.github.com/dne/1054313
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BryceBotGist: "Multi-boot FreeBSD w/ ZFS root on a GPT partitioned disk using Syslinux" [15:49]
m0undsdne: that's cool [15:51]
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mercutioi like ferm too [16:14]
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RandalSchwartztomorrow... the big upgrade day
freebsd from 8.3 (EOL) to 8.4 (supported for another year)
perl from 5.10(!) to 5.16
pkg to pkgng
thank goodness for snapshots :) 		[16:45]
m0undsgood luck [16:47]
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mnathaniup_the_irons: did you go with the i5 or i7 T520 [17:14]
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up_the_ironsi5 [17:45]
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i7's were hard to find actually [18:06]
mnathaniwhats the screen resolution?
1080p or lower? 		[18:06]
staticsafe1600x900
15" T520 here 		[18:07]
mnathaniwell, atleast its widescreen [18:07]
m0undsi miss the prevalence of 16:10 displays [18:11]
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