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| Who | What | When |
|---|---|---|
| up_the_irons | Any2 for v4 is pretty much back (but lots of peers are down due to CoreSite's renumbering; just gotta wait for everyone to renumber) | [02:25] |
| ........... (idle for 50mn) | ||
| mercutio | hmm i still seeing as11799
that's outgoing to two places though | [03:15] |
| incoming the same from one place | [03:23] | |
| .......... (idle for 45mn) | ||
| up_the_irons | since the majority of peers are down due to renumbering, that is expected | [04:08] |
| ........................................... (idle for 3h34mn) | ||
| m0unds | http://openntpproject.org <- this also scans ip ranges (up to a /22 at a time) looking for ntpd w/insecure config
http://openresolverproject.org for open dns resolvers | [07:42] |
| ........................ (idle for 1h55mn) | ||
| brycec | Depends on client and whether you're logging... But you're probably thinking of "/lastlog" 23:06:39 < mercutio> how do i search scrollback? :)
Well you can try using @log_search <terms> but beyond that, I don't know of a good IRC interface for that sort of thing. (At least not one I'm willing to write :P) 23:10:20 < mercutio> i weant to find a way to find urls i pasted to irc :) | [09:39] |
| ............. (idle for 1h4mn) | ||
| heh... my ARP IPv6 tunnel is about 1/2 the latency of my HE IPv6 tunnel. Yay ARP | [10:44] | |
| m0unds | yeah, about the same here - the closest HE tunnel ep was in LA, but it's way oversubscribed
and my latency to it was 80ms +/- 20ms vs 30 ms +/- 2ms, haha | [10:45] |
| brycec | I'm pointed at Seattle, being just 300mi away and get ~100ms or so, and ARP (much further away) is closer to 50ms | [10:47] |
| m0unds | huh. | [10:47] |
| brycec | (too busy to look at traceroutes, but needless to say it makes little sense and I did pick the shortest, quickest POP at the time) | [10:47] |
| m0unds | weird
huh. looks like after that last 6500 reboot, my latency's actually 50ms instead of 30 | [10:47] |
| mnathani | brycec: do you have a guide you could link to that describes how you setup the ipv6 tunnel using ARP? | [10:48] |
| m0unds | oh well | [10:48] |
| brycec | mnathani: obviously depends on your OS... I followed m0unds's guide and realized that it's as simple as setting up matching (Debian) v4tunnel statements on either end.
m0unds' guide was for FreeBSD and Juniper SRX gear, but I got the gist | [10:49] |
| mnathani | and you need to have the /48 enabled I assume | [10:50] |
| brycec | Note I just have the tunnel up, I don't have routing or /64 handoff setup yet
Yeah, though you could route /128s I guess? I dunno, not an expert. | [10:50] |
| mnathani | k | [10:52] |
| .... (idle for 17mn) | ||
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| ..... (idle for 23mn) | ||
| DaCa has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) | [11:32] | |
| ......... (idle for 44mn) | ||
| mercutio | up_the_irons: can't it be on both numbers at once? | [12:16] |
| maybe i shoujdl just log
oh i am logging it seems that's better | [12:21] | |
| ..... (idle for 20mn) | ||
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robonerd has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) | [12:44] |
| .... (idle for 18mn) | ||
| acf_ | darnit
http://kremvax.acfsys.net/smokeping.cgi?target=Remote.voipms-lsanca also, anything ipv4 on HE | [13:03] |
| mercutio | you got blocked?
your dsl latency is starting :/ | [13:07] |
| acf_ | no, arp -> anything through trit is broken | [13:08] |
| mercutio | oh what | [13:08] |
| acf_ | ping he.net
ping losangeles.voip.ms | [13:08] |
| mercutio | maybe any2ix issue | [13:08] |
| *** | PatrickINIZ has left "http://iniz.com" | [13:09] |
| mercutio | yeh hmm
he having looking glass oh it works from there | [13:09] |
| acf_ | I'm confused | [13:10] |
| mercutio | maybe need a diff trace point | [13:10] |
| acf_ | did someone block icmp somewhere in one direction? | [13:11] |
| mercutio | well this is traceroute so maybe udp
lg.he.net actually reverse path filtering can look like that sometimes but it looked like it was coming in vl5.s1.lax.arpnetworks.com unless that new box calls itself that telnet on port 80 not working too | [13:11] |
| acf_ | so, a ping to arpnetworks.com through the he lg works | [13:13] |
| mercutio | well to my host | [13:13] |
| acf_ | but a ping from 4or6.com to he.net breaks | [13:13] |
| mercutio | yeh
but if there is linux rp_filter on the new router it won't allow a response to come back for ping if it hasn't seen it go out on that router and this outbound path is via trit.net so of v5.s1 is thew new host linux defaults to rp_filter set to 1 and you need to set it to 0 or it'll behave just like this | [13:13] |
| acf_ | okay. I suppose that would explain it | [13:14] |
| mercutio | and itg was just done last night
up_the_irons: you around? so it may be that dns is wrong | [13:14] |
| acf_ | do you think it was intentional?
the filter | [13:15] |
| mercutio | nope
it's broken it's not icmp onyl issue port 80 doesn't work | [13:15] |
| acf_ | ah yes | [13:15] |
| mercutio | it may be connection tracking too
it's not necessarily rp_filter but both can accomplish the same thing | [13:16] |
| acf_ | http://kremvax.acfsys.net/smokeping.cgi?epoch_start=1392105600;hierarchy=;epoch_end=1392153357;target=Remote.voipms-lsanca;displaymode=n;start=2014-02-10%2024%3A00;end=now;Generate!=Generate! | [13:17] |
| mercutio | the internet isn't normally symmetric | [13:17] |
| acf_ | 5:00am ish | [13:17] |
| mercutio | i think he was talking about making changes 11 hours ago
hmm taht 9 horus ago? | [13:17] |
| acf_ | between 5:10am and 5:15am exactly
15% packet loss on the last sample | [13:19] |
| mercutio | i couldn't find any sites oging over any2ix las tnight
but i didn't try that hard | [13:20] |
| acf_ | digitalwest.net
works | [13:22] |
| mercutio | does it go over any2ix back? | [13:22] |
| acf_ | idk, the lg has a password | [13:22] |
| mercutio | it's not that it's going out trit.net, it's that it's coming back via any2ix
what not for me oh dw one | [13:22] |
| acf_ | yeah | [13:23] |
| mercutio | http shoudl be broken from he.net too
but they don't have any http tests | [13:23] |
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| m0unds | looks like losangeles.voip.ms is @ quadranet | [13:33] |
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| m0unds | fwiw, i can't ping it from anything i have (arp, home, work, nada) | [13:34] |
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ChanServ sets mode: +o mike-burns KDE_Perry has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) | [13:34] |
| brycec | m0unds: pings for me from TWC
PING losangeles.voip.ms (96.44.149.186) 56(84) bytes of data. 64 bytes from 96.44.149.186.static.quadranet.com (96.44.149.186): icmp_seq=1 ttl=51 time=45.5 ms | [13:35] |
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| brycec | And from comcast | [13:35] |
| toddf | I can ping that from my arpnetworks vps | [13:35] |
| brycec | I cannot ping it from ARP
I can ping it from Chunkhost though. | [13:35] |
| toddf | http://sprunge.us/JROF | [13:36] |
| brycec | On ARP, I cannot trace path coresite
*past | [13:36] |
| toddf | does 1gbit ports have a different v4 router? | [13:37] |
| mercutio | toddf: maybe | [13:37] |
| toddf | I don't even see coresite | [13:37] |
| mercutio | it's whether return path is coresite was the issue
(i think) | [13:37] |
| brycec | Mine on ARP: 1 174.136.103.129 (174.136.103.129) 23.764 ms 23.790 ms 24.034 ms
2 v440.r6.lax2.trit.net (208.90.34.78) 0.603 ms 1.152 ms 1.147 ms heh | [13:38] |
| mercutio | well should be symmetric or not at all :) | [13:38] |
| toddf | did you guys look at my sprunge paste? I can clearly get to losangeles.voip.ms from my arpnetworks vps | [13:38] |
| mercutio | can you telnet www.he.net on port 80 ? | [13:39] |
| toddf | anyone else here `testing' the 1gbps ports? | [13:39] |
| acf_ | with vps? | [13:39] |
| mercutio | yeh | [13:39] |
| acf_ | I'm on a dedicated machine | [13:39] |
| mercutio | cos that's really the best real test
same diff it doesn't work on dedicated for me | [13:39] |
| toddf | I can hit www.he.net:80 both on v4 and v6 | [13:39] |
| mercutio | it maybe some subnets are ok
toddf: why are you immune? :) | [13:39] |
| toddf | someone good with looking glass ? | [13:40] |
| mercutio | just do a traceroute to your ip, see if it hits v5.. | [13:40] |
| toddf | if some subnets are working, its as if a bgp is not advertising all or something
mercutio: look at my sprunge post! http://sprunge.us/JROF | [13:40] |
| acf_ | no 208.79...
no 174.136... no 206.125... | [13:40] |
| m0unds | i'm getting "permission denied" to www.he.net | [13:41] |
| mercutio | m0unds: weird | [13:41] |
| toddf | permission denied sounds like a user running traceroute that requires root | [13:41] |
| mercutio | you mean using telnet?
telnet: Unable to connect to remote host: Network is unreachable i get that | [13:41] |
| toddf | this is me to he.net:
http://sprunge.us/BiPP | [13:42] |
| m0unds | yea, it's throwing a 403
when i try to curl it - might just be preventing curl from retrieving it | [13:42] |
| mercutio | todd: mind telling us your ip? | [13:42] |
| toddf | 3.v.freedaemon.com ;-) | [13:42] |
| mercutio | oh it doesn't even accept connection for me | [13:42] |
| m0unds | i get nothing on ipv4, but i get 9ms on ipv6 via mtr to www.he.net | [13:43] |
| acf_ | cool toddf you're on s7 | [13:43] |
| mercutio | acf: how did you figure that out? | [13:43] |
| acf_ | I'm on s1 | [13:43] |
| mercutio | oh i see
yeh so am i | [13:43] |
| acf_ | http://paste.unixcube.org/k/819449 | [13:44] |
| mercutio | so yeh it's working for toddf cos he's on s7 | [13:44] |
| m0unds | and yea, via v4 i'm going out over trit.net and it fails | [13:44] |
| mercutio | m0unds: i think it's return path causing issues though
can't cut and paste that nicely | [13:44] |
| toddf | telent -4 3.v.freedaemon.com 1234 -> bounces you to v4 www.he.net just incase there's any confusion | [13:44] |
| mercutio | for lg.he.net
heh i think we have to wait for up_the_irons to look into it | [13:44] |
| .............. (idle for 1h6mn) | ||
| up_the_irons | up_the_irons checks things out | [14:51] |
| mercutio | oh cool | [14:51] |
| up_the_irons | gimme a min to go through the scrollback | [14:53] |
| mercutio | you must be quick reader :)
it looks like connectino tracking or rp_filter i figure but that's only if v5 is coresite on the new box | [14:55] |
| up_the_irons | well yes it is taking longer than aminute?
whoops *minute ;) mercutio: actually, i just thought connection tracking too from some support tickets i got. i just disabled it on r1.lax (should not have been on :( let's see if that helps (i see more traffic flowing now) | [15:02] |
| brycec | fwiw I can traceroute to losangeles.voip.ms from ARP, same route through coresite as before. Guess coresite got their act together.
ah cool | [15:03] |
| up_the_irons | brycec: so that made a difference? | [15:05] |
| brycec | Maybe, or coresite fixed things for all I can tell. It's been ~2hrs since I tried and it failed :p | [15:05] |
| up_the_irons | ok | [15:06] |
| mercutio | www.he.net accepts connection on port 80 now
so yeh i think it fixed up_the_irons: do you have a time in mind that level3 is coming up? | [15:07] |
| up_the_irons | mercutio: they say by the end of the month i'll have an LoA for the x-conn, then like, a week after that, we turn up | [15:09] |
| mercutio | oh yip
just this ntt->verizon issue seems like it might not be resolved until then and then only if it goes via level3 outobund it was affecting acf rather than me though | [15:09] |
| up_the_irons | mercutio: yeah, the peers *could* be on both numbers at once, but since I was moving Any2 anyway to new gear, I decided to drop the old numbers | [15:17] |
| mercutio | ahh ok
and there's that bgp collective fallback and it helped minimise broken things :) | [15:21] |
| up_the_irons | yeah, the next shortest path is generally The BGP Collective, so impact was just 1 extra hop
cool, i found different hosts on NLNOG ring that have inbound paths of: Trit, NTT, nLayer but still trying to find one on an Any2 peer (or rather, one that takes that path) would help to save that one for future diagnostics | [15:22] |
| mercutio | yeh but it only makes sense in the short term
in the longer term, there'll be way more options like finding stuff that goes via bgp collective isn't hard | [15:28] |
| brycec | Oy vey... My smokeping slave config (the configuration pushed to each smokeping slave) is 248k (according to the http log) | [15:29] |
| Yamazaki-kun | should I see if I can play Eve over my VZW tether? | [15:33] |
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| Yamazaki-kun | and the result: yeah, it works | [15:39] |
| m0unds | hahaha
must be a low congestion vzw tower their lte gear is so hideously oversubscribed in NM/CO it's absurd | [15:39] |
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| awyeah | Is there something blocking ntp traffic?
to and from the VPSs? | [15:57] |
| mercutio | yes | [15:57] |
| brycec | yes
well, *to* the VPS | [15:57] |
| mercutio | use a source port other than 123 | [15:57] |
| up_the_irons | https://twitter.com/arpnetworks/status/433094185122414592 | [15:58] |
| BryceBot | TWITTER: We have blocked all incoming NTP traffic to VM hosts; many were unwittingly participating in UDP amplification attacks (Tue Feb 11 04:24:34 +0000 2014, retweeted 4 times) | [15:58] |
| awyeah | ah | [15:58] |
| brycec | brycec wittingly participates :P | [15:58] |
| up_the_irons | But actually, i am just now applying a different filter | [15:58] |
| awyeah | okely dokely | [15:58] |
| up_the_irons | I am opening up NTP, but the misconfigured hosts will be blocked | [15:58] |
| brycec | yay | [15:59] |
| awyeah | What constitutes misconfigured? | [15:59] |
| mercutio | monlist | [15:59] |
| up_the_irons | it participates in amplification attacks | [15:59] |
| awyeah | lol | [15:59] |
| mercutio | did you try that nmap cmd? | [15:59] |
| up_the_irons | srsly, we had over 500 Mbps of traffic going out last night from misconfigured NTP servers | [15:59] |
| awyeah | Holys iht. | [16:00] |
| up_the_irons | mercutio: no, was having trouble getting all the dependencies | [16:00] |
| brycec | protip: When writing Smokeping targets, don't forget to include host= | [16:01] |
| awyeah | Looking at my bandwidth, it's looking like my system was not participating, hopefully | [16:03] |
| up_the_irons | it would be noticable | [16:03] |
| mercutio | ahh | [16:03] |
| awyeah | I've got this for my restrict statement: restrict default nomodify notrap noquery | [16:03] |
| mercutio | up_the_irons: does arp have ntp servers? | [16:03] |
| brycec | Yep, you should be fine. Easy to test yourself though. | [16:03] |
| mercutio | i want to see 1.2.3.<1-3> be anycast ntp servers
to go along with the proposal for 1.2.3.4 to be a standard anycast dns | [16:03] |
| up_the_irons | mercutio: no | [16:04] |
| awyeah | Ah, I see, it's the noquery that should take care of it. | [16:04] |
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| up_the_irons | "disable monitor" is also an easy way to fix it | [16:04] |
| mercutio | most people prob just use the pool anyway | [16:04] |
| awyeah | You know what. That reminds me. | [16:05] |
| brycec | uh oh, come back BryceBot! | [16:05] |
| mercutio | openntp also fixes it
does kvm actually require everyone run their own ntp clients? i've kind of wondered that for a while | [16:05] |
| toddf | mercutio: host time tracking is independent of guest time tracking | [16:06] |
| mercutio | so yes | [16:06] |
| awyeah | Hey, cool, I'm talking ntp again. | [16:06] |
| toddf | so you can cronjob a command to set time against a remote system or you can use a ntpd
openntpd (I'm running it) defaults to client mode only, you have to explicitly uncomment the 'listen *' bit just confirmed I am only a ntp client, so not likely contributing to the 500mbit of ntp traffic last night | [16:06] |
| mercutio | it doesn't amplify even if it's listening too | [16:08] |
| toddf | removing '3.v.freedaemon.com:1234' redirect to he.net now that the problem it was in theory helping diagnose is now fixed | [16:10] |
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| up_the_irons | from the looks of the volume of vulnerable hosts that have been reported, it appears many hosts _default_ to the bad behavior | [16:11] |
| hazardous | good thing i never run ntp!
i just occasionally hire a dwarf in a shoe to tweak the system clock | [16:19] |
| m0unds | you can run ntp, it's when ntp /listens/ for requests that it's a problem
all you have to do is toggle of mon and it's fine, and it can sync to pool.ntp.org or time.nist.gov or whatever off* mon | [16:20] |
| mercutio | up_the_irons: i think at least freebsd 9 defaults to being vulnerable | [16:23] |
| m0unds | it does until you run freebsd-update like you should do anyway
8.3-9.2 all default to listening, run freebsd-update fetch & install and it's patched it's been available as a patch since january | [16:23] |
| mercutio | tehre was as huge ddos over new years | [16:25] |
| m0unds | there was also a big one on like 12/25, which is when freebsd released the advisory to make config changes
someone even mentioned it in here that same day at least i thought it was the same day | [16:26] |
| staticsafe | meh i'll just switch the fbsd box to openntpd | [16:28] |
| up_the_irons | mercutio: damn.. we have SOOO many fbsd 9 hosts
and, big surprise, most people don't maintain their systems | [16:29] |
| staticsafe | when was this patched? | [16:30] |
| m0unds | i linked the advisory from freebsd yesterday | [16:30] |
| mercutio | up_the_irons: do you offer freebsd 10 yet? | [16:30] |
| m0unds | january somesuch - they posted the original advisory in december | [16:30] |
| mercutio | freebsd 10 adds zfs root support :) | [16:30] |
| m0unds | http://www.freebsd.org/security/advisories/FreeBSD-SA-14:02.ntpd.asc | [16:30] |
| up_the_irons | mercutio: ISO Only | [16:31] |
| m0unds | http://svnweb.freebsd.org/base/head/etc/ntp.conf?view=log&pathrev=259973 original mention | [16:31] |
| mercutio | yeah it's hard to keep systems up to date
there's an even bigger problem with routers and so on with ntp as they're even less likely to be kept up to date | [16:32] |
| staticsafe | i did see that advisory, didn't read it >_> | [16:32] |
| mercutio | i've been using openntpd for years though.. | [16:32] |
| m0unds | i have a crontab set up to execute freebsd-update cron, which emails me if there are new updates | [16:35] |
| mercutio | the problem is it's not people who are "reasonably connected" that are likely to be at fault
as much as people who have no idea | [16:36] |
| m0unds | m0unds shrugs
in 2014, it's sort of negligent to not maintain systems people still don't do it, but i still think it's shitty regardless | [16:36] |
| mercutio | s/negligent/common/ | [16:37] |
| BryceBot | <m0unds> in 2014, it's sort of common to not maintain systems | [16:37] |
| mercutio | i can s/ your text :) | [16:37] |
| m0unds | commonality and negligence aren't interchangeable | [16:37] |
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| mercutio | it's what is vs what should be | [16:38] |
| staticsafe | i suppose i could add freebsd-update cron | [16:39] |
| mercutio | it deos remind me though, i should follow freebsd security list
http://www.freebsd.org/security/advisories/FreeBSD-SA-14:01.bsnmpd.asc that's also significant | [16:41] |
| Nat_RH | How many were affected? pretty sure I modified mine correctly a few weeks back | [16:45] |
| mercutio | quite a few | [16:49] |
| brycec | s/your/any/ | [16:51] |
| BryceBot | <mercutio> i can s/ any text :) | [16:51] |
| mercutio | even ages back | [16:52] |
| brycec | About 20 lines or so
My smokeping data folder is 2.8GB :( | [16:53] |
| staticsafe | also - http://blogs.freebsdish.org/portmgr/2014/02/03/time-to-bid-farewell-to-the-old-pkg_-tools/ | [16:55] |
| awyeah | What patchlevel was 9.2 patched? | [16:55] |
| brycec | s/ - pkg_install EOL is scheduled for 2014-09-01. Please consider migrating to pkgng | [16:55] |
| mercutio | brycec: what step size? | [16:55] |
| brycec | mercutio: still default | [16:56] |
| staticsafe | 2014-01-14 19:42:28 UTC (releng/9.2, 9.2-RELEASE-p3) | [16:56] |
| mercutio | brycec: you must be doing a lot of probes :) | [16:56] |
| brycec | About 200 hosts now
and 5 slaves | [16:56] |
| mercutio | if you're doing lots you may want to consider reducing the ping packet size | [16:56] |
| awyeah | ah, I see I got an email about that a few days ago. time to updatge | [16:56] |
| mercutio | i just started doing smokeping on arp | [16:56] |
| brycec | brycec increases packet size to make up for up_the_irons' 500mbps | [16:56] |
| mercutio | + FPing
binary = /usr/bin/fping packetsize = 32 i have that | [16:57] |
| brycec | cool
s/slaves/monitoring hosts (4 of which are slaves) | [16:57] |
| BryceBot | <brycec> and 5 monitoring hosts (4 of which are slaves) | [17:01] |
| staticsafe | meh smokeping | [17:01] |
| awyeah | back in a minute. | [17:01] |
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| mercutio | you don't like it? | [17:01] |
| staticsafe | not really no
i especially don't like the CGI webapp | [17:01] |
| mercutio | i don't like it how it hides minimum/maximum
in the period | [17:02] |
| m0unds | yeah, cgi makes me sad | [17:02] |
| mercutio | mostly
it shows averages for the monitoring period how it reloads all the time? | [17:02] |
| m0unds | just don't like it in general | [17:02] |
| mercutio | i find it useful | [17:02] |
| m0unds | i run it on hardware directly at home | [17:02] |
| brycec | ^ | [17:02] |
| mercutio | and i'm not going to write my own
yet | [17:02] |
| staticsafe | staticsafe converts pkg db to pkg2ng | [17:03] |
| ........... (idle for 50mn) | ||
| up_the_irons | what a freakin' day (or week!).. and it's only the start... | [17:53] |
| mnathani | up_the_irons: does your Bird setup support 4 byte AS numbers? | [17:54] |
| up_the_irons | mnathani: i believe so
anything modern does :) | [17:54] |
| mercutio | everything supports 4 byte asn these days
but some things use dot format | [17:55] |
| up_the_irons | now i can't find it in the docs, bah
ah found it so yes, my BIRD setup supports 4 byte ASNs | [17:57] |
| mnathani | cool | [17:59] |
| mercutio | is bird using dot format?
it's not using dot format | [18:03] |
| mnathani | whats an example of a 4 byte only ASN? | [18:12] |
| m0unds | 234567 | [18:14] |
| mnathani | AS234567 has not been visible in the global routing table since March 09, 2011 | [18:14] |
| m0unds | i meant it as an example | [18:15] |
| mnathani | ahh | [18:15] |
| m0unds | https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc5396.txt
for the diff bw asdot and asplain | [18:18] |
| mercutio | i like asdot, but asplain is standard now pretty much | [18:23] |
| m0unds | yea, i haven't seen asdot in a while
i don't really work with internet-connected systems a ton, though | [18:26] |
| mercutio | i use openbgpd, which uses asdot notation | [18:36] |
| mnathani | m0unds: is there an air gap between your systems and the internet? | [18:36] |
| mercutio | and any new asn's now days are all 32 bit | [18:36] |
| mnathani | Is it possible we might outgrow that limit on number of networks and need to expand to more than 4 byte ASNs | [18:39] |
| mercutio | yes
but it's unlikely | [18:42] |
| *** | robonerd has joined #arpnetworks
robonerd has quit IRC (Changing host) robonerd has joined #arpnetworks | [18:42] |
| mercutio | i think it's more prudent to replace bgp with something better | [18:42] |
| m0unds | mnathani: what i mean is that i'm not a network engineer with internet-connected systems anymore
of* internet-connected* | [18:43] |
| mercutio | there's a slow gradual shift to having routing decisions being made globally, rather than at every point in the network
so if a talks to b talks to c talks to d then along at each hop it decides where to go next | [18:43] |
| m0unds | as a hobbyist with virtual servers, i couldn't give two shits about which ASNs are which :) | [18:43] |
| mercutio | so c might decide to talk to a and loop it all over again | [18:43] |
| robonerd | global routing decisions sound as smart as software defined routing
ie, sounds bad | [18:44] |
| mercutio | it's similar.
it's not necessarily a bad thing but some kind of hybrid solution can be useful | [18:45] |
| robonerd | can you give an example? | [18:45] |
| mercutio | i had a kind of nifty idea of how things could work better, but a lot of decisions are motivated by large companies
and so you'r not really going to change them | [18:45] |
| robonerd | what's the idea? | [18:46] |
| mercutio | s/can/could/ | [18:46] |
| BryceBot | <robonerd> could you give an example? | [18:46] |
| mercutio | well basically you pay to get traffic to a point near the user
forward only routing so like you pay to get traffic to amsix from los agnels err los angeles and then the path between those two points can be varied and you have per minute charging or such and you can choose to take lower cost or lower latency/higher badnwidth paths | [18:46] |
| *** | pcn has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) | [18:47] |
| mercutio | and as more people choose the better paths the cost goes up like a stock exchange | [18:47] |
| robonerd | sounds like what internap did with their routing engine | [18:47] |
| mercutio | so when there's failures etc
cost will tend to go up | [18:48] |
| robonerd | i think it's a great idea if we could get it on an open basis | [18:48] |
| mercutio | and when there is idle capcaity cost goes down
so you might have a better path while it's cheaper, then shift to a cheaper path when cost goes up because you can't redally change how people send you traffic, only how you send them traffic | [18:48] |
| *** | pcn has joined #arpnetworks | [18:49] |
| robonerd | yea
damn, dis nigga be worn OUT i wrote a shitload of code today, but the biggest drain was 2 challenging problems/bugs | [18:51] |
| m0unds | i played video games and drank whiskey | [18:52] |
| robonerd | what kind of whiskey?
(v games be damned) | [18:53] |
| m0unds | balcones brimstone | [18:53] |
| robonerd | i've not had that one yet | [18:53] |
| m0unds | http://www.balconesdistilling.com/products | [18:53] |
| robonerd | yea, looks worth trying
how do you like it? | [18:54] |
| m0unds | the smoke is nice
it's kinda sweet - first whiskey i've found that my wife will actually drink | [18:54] |
| robonerd | where does it lie?
hm interesting | [18:55] |
| m0unds | it's pretty up front, smoke-wise
almost like a firey nose to it much mellower than it smells though | [18:55] |
| robonerd | sweet and smokey, you know, that sounds just about right for texas
bbq sauce and such | [18:55] |
| m0unds | yeah, haha | [18:55] |
| robonerd | well i'll keep an eye out for it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tm23wDVU2U | [18:55] |
| BryceBot | YouTube Education: "Grand Designs S09 E01 The Apprentice Store, Somerset SD ( Standard Definition )" by Roland Marginas (49m 3s), 27,742 views, 73 likes and 7 dislikes. Uploaded 2013-06-26T09:18:34.000Z. | [18:55] |
| robonerd | there's something for you | [18:56] |
| m0unds | took a while to find it locally - none of the bigger local liquor joints carried it | [18:56] |
| mercutio | m0unds: the main actual issue with implementing would be getting mpls connections cheaply on a usage basis or such, and getting people onboard to use it | [18:56] |
| robonerd | brb getting high | [18:56] |
| m0unds | err..? | [18:56] |
| mercutio | but i'm actually in favour of per-bit-charging rather than block pipe charging | [18:57] |
| m0unds | not sure if you meant to tag me there, haha | [18:57] |
| mercutio | because it encourages people to cull "bad" traffic as a way to save money
rather than preserve performance. err i meant to tag robonerd | [18:57] |
| m0unds | it's an interesting idea, but i could see corporations figuring out ways to abuse it | [18:58] |
| mercutio | how so?
it's kind of the way electricity works | [18:58] |
| m0unds | ehh, there are regulatory bodies that protect the cost of electricity delivery in the US
dunno if that's the case abroad but PRCs prevent price gouging and stuff | [18:59] |
| mercutio | even to businesses? | [18:59] |
| m0unds | yep | [18:59] |
| mercutio | including big customers? | [18:59] |
| m0unds | yep. they can schedule pricing differently based on use | [18:59] |
| mercutio | here big customers can pay varaible power costs
and get cheaper power. most of the time | [18:59] |
| m0unds | it can be dynamic depending on industry and consumption | [18:59] |
| mercutio | but as soon as like a power station goes or such prices jump heaps | [19:00] |
| m0unds | PRCs here require approval to raise rates | [19:00] |
| mercutio | but it means if you
err if you're doing stuff that you can temp shut off when power use is highest, that uses a lot of power, then you can get cheaper power the rest of the time | [19:00] |
| m0unds | if it's reasonable, for instance, if you need to invest more money in delivery equipment or whatever, they can approve it pretty easily | [19:00] |
| mercutio | which happens for a few industrial type things. | [19:01] |
| m0unds | yea, they do that for things like arc furnaces for steel production and stuff | [19:01] |
| mercutio | yeh
but that's how power works in general then on top of that are residential plans that offer smoother pricing | [19:01] |
| m0unds | they still have fixed rate schedules for large stuff in the US
it's just a matter of whether it's high demand hours or not | [19:03] |
| mercutio | ahh ok, so it doesn't take outages into consideration?
i started thinking about this more when there was that huge flooding incident in east coast US and some providers were completely screwed to europe | [19:04] |
| m0unds | ah | [19:05] |
| mercutio | didn't really see much local coverage of the extent of problems
but reading overseas stuff it sounded like lots of datacentres did silly things like have their generators in baseemnts. so when there was flooding they couldn't run their generators. | [19:06] |
| m0unds | yeah - it sucks that there are so many facilities in areas that aren't well suited to modern stuff | [19:07] |
| mercutio | the thing is it's expesnive to fix these things | [19:07] |
| m0unds | not a ton of modern infrastructure, or stuff slapped together | [19:07] |
| mercutio | so if you want to move all of your generators to 4th floor from basement, it'll cost real money
and when you say "what if there's a flood" people think it's like a biblical thing like noah's ark and not going to happen to them. until actual issues happen people don't tend to want to sepnd money | [19:07] |
| m0unds | yep | [19:08] |
| mercutio | even then with those that did, some people couldn't get fuel for generators.
and "best advice" now seems to be that you should have 3 sources of fuel california has all the potential earthquake stuff going on | [19:08] |
| m0unds | there was a blog that was kept by some guys in a DC in louisiana during/after hurricane katrina | [19:09] |
| mercutio | and i'm sure most of the datacentres are pretty good for erathquake protection
but if there's fibre breaks, there could be a long time to restore due to being in "dangerous" areas there may be some typhoon risk there too? | [19:09] |
| m0unds | http://interdictor.livejournal.com/2005/08/28/
^ it was that blog there - intercosmos media group or something based in new orleans in CA? i think it's pretty limited typhoon risk not out of the realm of possibility, but i think earthquakes are more likely than typhoons by far | [19:12] |
| mercutio | ok
well i'm far away so i don't really know the risks | [19:14] |
| m0unds | yeah
power issues maybe socal has a super high demand for power and water | [19:14] |
| mercutio | i think water issues are very likely
given an earthquake given that there is already water shortages | [19:23] |
| ..... (idle for 23mn) | ||
| brycec | If anybody is interested (mercutio, up_the_irons), I've increased my smokeping resolution to 1 minute. | [19:47] |
| mnathani | brycec: cool
@smokeping | [19:49] |
| BryceBot | https://smokeping.cobryce.com/ | [19:49] |
| mercutio | did you tweak your existing rrd thing?
you have to when rrd has diff step size | [19:50] |
| brycec | mercutio: I just nuked them
Totally redesigned the rra's | [19:50] |
| mercutio | ok
that works that's usually what i do :) | [19:50] |
| brycec | I played with the idea, but I realized that the historical data isn't really that important | [19:50] |
| mercutio | whch reminds me i was going to see how verizon had been doing
only 5% loss atm | [19:51] |
| brycec | Which also played into the redesign of the rra's - I don't keep data beyond 6mos, and it's weekly averages past 1 wk | [19:51] |
| mercutio | interesting i sse the ping rising with forward path verizon, as well as forward path via ntt
so i think there's dual issues, cos packet lsos doesn't happen when sending via verizon | [19:52] |
| .... (idle for 15mn) | ||
| apparently another ddos is happening atm | [20:07] | |
| brycec | oh dear | [20:07] |
| mercutio | well arp shoudln't be contributing at least | [20:08] |
| pcn | What proto is being used to attack? | [20:11] |
| mercutio | ntp | [20:11] |
| pcn | OK, so same attack. | [20:22] |
| mercutio | yeh
happened new years and xmas too | [20:23] |
| ..................... (idle for 1h44mn) | ||
| up_the_irons | brycec: cool | [22:07] |
| CaZe | Man, I wanna watch the olympics.
It's the only time I've ever wished I had a VPS in some other country. :D | [22:18] |
| up_the_irons | i'm watching it every night, while coding / networking / bgp'ing ;) | [22:19] |
| .... (idle for 17mn) | ||
| this is really cool. i've finally been able to enumerate some NLNOG hosts according to which incoming path they take to us:
NTT - lchost01.ring.nlnog.net nLayer - doruknet01.ring.nlnog.net Trit - teamix01.ring.nlnog.net Mzima - inerail01.ring.nlnog.net Any2 IX - vocus01.ring.nlnog.net That should help greatly with diagnostics in the future | [22:36] | |
| ........ (idle for 37mn) | ||
| mercutio | cool. | [23:13] |
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