#arpnetworks 2014-02-09,Sun

FreeSpencer

Was there ever an east coast location with ARPNetworks?

mercutio

not yet
i think it's due to come this year

FreeSpencer

Has it always been LA?

mercutio

yeh

FreeSpencer

Hmm nvm then!

staticsafe

i told you FreeSpencer

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staticsafe

lol

mercutio

what

http://pastebin.com/cCTnCzXG

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m0unds

hahaha
LA is..east of hawaii?

[10:36]

mike-burns

Yup.

[10:37]

mercutio

north east

[10:42]

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m0unds

i was meaning in the context of an "east" location, hahaha
i need a new office chair

[11:12]

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mercutio

oh right

[11:44]

brycec

I do too... Seemed like a fine chair when I bought it, but less than a year later the cylinder won't hold pressure (10 minutes is all it takes), and the right armrest doesn't attach to the back correctly anymore (leaning back is exciting).

[11:57]

mercutio

it's a pita shpopoing for new office chairs
most aren't very good
and how are you meant to know if it'll fail in a year's time withotu researching
my old chair lost gas acutally
but it was also really worn by then
adn it was about 7 years old
i dunno how long they're meant to last

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toddf

anybody notice v6 issues?
I can ping6 google, but not facebook, and not my end of a he.net tunnel

[12:56]

mnathani

pinging fine for me facebook v6

[12:58]

toddf

from your arpnetworks vps?

[12:58]

mnathani

yup

could be due to your gigabit connectivity?

[13:01]

toddf

I'd expect google would not work then
can you ping6 0.v.freedaemon.com ?
oh google doesn't work via v6
yeah likely something was not saved or something, the odd thing though is I see the v6 router
http://sprunge.us/DXTG

[13:03]

mnathani

5 packets transmitted, 0 received, 100% packet loss, time 4101ms ( 0.v.freedaemon.com )

[13:07]

toddf

sent a support request.

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mnathani

Are you experiencing the same on all your vpsen?
I guess they are all in the same VLAN

[13:55]

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m0unds

mercutio: yea, i had my previous one for 9 years..it was a cheapie, but it was uncomfortable by about year 4. i just couldn't find any i liked, so i gave up on it

[14:28]

mercutio

my chair is annyoing me
but it's liek $700 for a good chair

[14:28]

m0unds

i just bought some commercial grade one like i have at work

[14:29]

CaZe

Build your own tractor seat chair.

[14:29]

m0unds

haha
officemax had a $30 off coupon thing, so this one ended up being almost $150 off w/their office furniture promotion

[14:32]

mercutio

http://www.wired.com/reviews/2013/06/office-chair-gallery/

[14:35]

BryceBot

Wired: "You're Gonna Want to Sit Down for This: 6 High-End Desk Chairs Reviewed | Product Reviews | Wired.com"

[14:35]

m0unds

brycec: does BryceBot have URL shortening capabilities?
haha, nice chairs
cheapest one is only roughly 175% of the cost of this one, hahahaha

[14:36]

mercutio

see they're all expensive

yea
http://www.officemax.com/catalog/2013/Customs/WorkPro/cst-workpro-chair4.png

m0unds

mercutio

i thought i should splash out on a chair sometime

CaZe

I'm perfectly comfortable withot armrests.

mercutio

but i'd want to do enoqugh research

m0unds

i can go either way - arm rests get in the way of my desk
also, my cat likes armrests

mercutio

that looks like my chair sort of

m0unds

he likes to stand up and paw at my arm to get my attention

mercutio

only sort of
the back looks diff

m0unds

i wasn't a fan of mesh backs at first, but i grew to like how well it breathes

mercutio

i have mesh with a soft headrest type thing

m0unds

especially when it's warm
yeah - that's how my work one is, has a mesh headrest
i'm too tall for that though, so i just removed it

mercutio

it's that where you sit down is to thin that seems to my biggest issue

http://www.target.com/p/tractor-chair-black/-/A-13704390?ref=tgt_adv_XSG10001&AFID=Google_PLA_df&LNM=%7C13704390&CPNG=Furniture&kpid=13704390&LID=PA&ci_src=17588969&ci_sku=13704390&gclid=CKDU5r6OwLwCFUcV7AodRS4ALw

CaZe

mercutio

and tends to thin in the middle after owning longer

CaZe

I used to have that.

mercutio

now that i think about it it's probably fixable
i suppose you could probably open it up and replace whatever cushion type thing is in there

CaZe

I was perfectly comfortable in it, but the plastic eventually cracked in the seat.
I bought a metal tractor seat off of ebay with the intention of replacing it.
Never got around to it though.

[14:42]

mercutio

arctulaly it looks like it's not that easy
and would involve unscrewing the bottom

[14:42]

m0unds

yea, or the cushion might be glued in place and screwed in place

mercutio

it doesn't matter if it glued

m0unds

like, wood board with cushion and upholstery glued to it, then the whole thing screwed into the base

mercutio

you just pack another one on in middle

CaZe

TWSS

BryceBot

Okay! twss! 'you just pack another one on in middle'

mercutio

the thing is i don't even weigh a lot

m0unds

the upholstery would probably fail and it'd look like you beat the stuffing out of the seat, hahaha

mercutio

i must sit a lot ;/

m0unds

hahahaha
get one of those kneeling seats
http://vvro.us/1f7JlPB they look goofy
it's like a bicycle seat and part of a massage chair or something

mercutio

oh i tried one of those once

[14:45]

CaZe

Can't wank in those.

mercutio

never got used to it

m0unds

you could, but you'd probably break your kneck
neck*
kneck? wtf.

mercutio

i dno't think the one i used had wheels

m0unds

m0unds sighs
yeah, i'd think the wheels would make it more dangerous

mercutio

i like the idea of a standing desk
have you guys heard of that?

m0unds

yeah, i did that for a few weeks

mercutio

how'd it go?

m0unds

raised my workstation up to chest level
pretty well, but i found that it was hard to get my displays quite right
i have them on arms, but they didn't have enough tilt to get them to where i could look at them naturally

mercutio

hmm
now that you mention it i'd probably have that issue too

m0unds

my legs felt great though
haha

mercutio

i want to try it
but my desk can't raise that high
heh

m0unds

put another desk on top of your desk

mercutio

did your normal desk support it?
that soudns dangerous

m0unds

only if you don't anchor that sucker

mercutio

earthquakes don't happen here, but wheer i used to live i had to move from because of earthquakes
so i'm paranoid now

m0unds

yeah, my desk at work is adjustable for height

mercutio

like i'm always thinking where things might fall :)

http://www.katu.com/news/local/Snow-plow-rolls-blocks-Highway-105--244634991.html yeesh

m0unds

mercutio

is the US still screwed up by weather?
it was like < 0c highs when i last looked

m0unds

it's 65F here today; should be 30-40

mercutio

i forgot the command

m0unds

@wa 65F in C
i think

mercutio

65f is 18.3c

BryceBot

convert 65 °F (degrees Fahrenheit) to degrees Celsius;18.33 °C (degrees Celsius);291.48 K (kelvins);524.67 °R (degrees Rankine);14.667 °Ré (degrees Réaumur);17.125 °Rø (degrees Rømer);1.667 °C below temperature at STP (standard temperature and pressure), using the National Institute of Standards and Technology convention (20 °C);2.778 °C above temperature at STP (standard temperature and pressure), using the US customary convent

mercutio

so slightly cold

m0unds

@wa 30F in C
^ that's what it should be

BryceBot

convert 30 °F (degrees Fahrenheit) to degrees Celsius;-1.111 °C (degrees Celsius);272.04 K (kelvins);489.67 °R (degrees Rankine);-0.88889 °Ré (degrees Réaumur);6.9167 °Rø (degrees Rømer);1.111 °C below melting point of water ice (at standard pressure) (0 °C);1.111 °C below temperature at STP (standard temperature and pressure), using the International Union of Pure and Applied Chemistry convention (0 °C);1.11 °C below ice poin

mercutio

@wa 0c in f

m0unds

BryceBot

convert 0 °C (degrees Celsius) to degrees Fahrenheit;32 °F (degrees Fahrenheit);273.15 K (kelvins);491.67 °R (degrees Rankine);0 °Ré (degrees Réaumur);7.5 °Rø (degrees Rømer);= melting point of water ice (at standard pressure) (0 °C);= temperature at STP (standard temperature and pressure), using the International Union of Pure and Applied Chemistry convention (0 °C);~~ ice point of water (273.15 K);temperature;[temperature];Ther

m0unds

i know that offhand
haha

mercutio

m0unds

but yea, should be around that as a high where i live, but it's been in the 60s on and off for two weeks

mercutio

nice

m0unds

driving me nuts
i want snow

mercutio

so do i
it's only 23c here atm
but it might get hotter :(
i wish it could abbbbbbbereviate
23c=73.4f
heh my repeat value a bit high
do you ever get stuck at work?
by snow

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[15:17]

m0unds

umm, i've gotten stuck there twice
once for ice and once for snow
biggest snow i can remember here was ~60cm or so

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brycec

Haha, it does, but they're not enabled (last I checked). BryceBot only has URL de-shortening :D 14:35:21 >> m0unds<< brycec: does BryceBot have URL shortening capabilities?
(Because brycec hates shortened URLs)

[16:02]

mercutio

haha debian is falling apart

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[16:39]

jbergstroem

mercutio: init debacle you mean?

[16:53]

mercutio

up_the_irons: yes
people are asking Ian to resign.
https://lists.debian.org/debian-ctte/2014/02/msg00363.html
it's like a university.
on a positive note i figured out how to get notrack to work.

[17:00]

m0unds

mo drammuh

[17:01]

mercutio

i want to see systemd go ahead.

[17:01]

m0unds

i just wanna see something modern and well engineered
but OMGZ NAHT INIT NAHT GUN UZE IT

[17:02]

mercutio

well i find systemd a little confusing
but it has grown on me over time
and nearly everyone except ubuntu is using it
and ubuntu seems to just want to do things differently for the sake of it
i also want to see waylong go ahead rather than mir

[17:02]

m0unds

yea, i felt the same way about systemd, but it makes a lot of sense in a lot of ways
and i like how you can specify dependencies for startup and stuff

[17:03]

mercutio

i still haven't found a linux i really like
i've started using arch for personal systems
but i don't think it's really suitable for critical systems
not really a fan of ubuntu, centos, or debian. debian and centos have outdated packages.
ubuntu at least has 2 yearly long term versions, but has a few annoying things
so in the end i end up using ubuntu anyway. but it doesn't mean it's ideal.
i kind of think debian has to look at two year release cycle or such
actually it looks like it does have two year release cycle now
i thin it was woody -> sarge when i moved to ubuntu

[17:04]

jpalmer

mercutio: outdated packages == system stability. keep in mind, they do backport security fixes

[17:10]

mercutio

yeah i had problems with php 4 and apache 1.3 ?
debian was quite far behind with php
that said i shifted to ubuntu 6 monthly rather than two yearly
php is a bit of a nightmare though

[17:10]

jpalmer

jpalmer uses CentOS at work.

mercutio

do you like centos?

jpalmer

yeah, I personally avoid PHP like the devil.

m0unds

if your hw is supported by debian or centos, it works great
but modern raid cards and stuff can be a huge hassle

mercutio

i kind of would like to see things like tmux stay current
or be included

m0unds

depending on mfgr

mercutio

whereas core thingss can be a bit more stable
i've been using custom kernels for a while now
m0unds: that advice was valid 15 years ago

jpalmer

mercutio: At this point, all of the unixen are very similar to me. I use puppet, so.. I just define what I think the system should look like.. and puppet "makes it happen"

mercutio

is it still the way it is? :)

m0unds

it's still valid.
haha
puppet is great

mercutio

the annoying thing i foundwith centos is it had lots of braindead config by default which required tweaking
i like openbsd having bare config, but still keeping important things there

[17:13]

m0unds

lots of LSI cards have issues with 2.6.x kernels, as much as that shouldn't happen

[17:13]

mercutio

interetsing

[17:13]

m0unds

it does and it's annoying

mercutio

lsi 9211 is fine isn't it?

jpalmer

mercutio: I don't really consider that a valid concern/issue. as an admin, I very rarely ever install anything, and leave a default config. tweaking and such are a fact of life

mercutio

true i just feel like it's nice when systems depart from defaults in known ways. .
i think it was things like ntp from memory

m0unds

no idea, but a client of mine managed to find three separate lsi card models made in the last 2 years that would crash and die pretty regularly

mercutio

m0unds: ouch.

[17:15]

m0unds

i thought it was the disks at first, but then noticed that happened with every disk we tried

[17:15]

mercutio

i saw a problem with lsi and western digital disks
i was wondering what was happening :/
but in the end it magically worked with seagate disks

[17:15]

m0unds

yeah, that sort of behavior is total crap in 2014
hahaha

mercutio

yeah this was older hardware
but still
i tried emailing lsi and western digital
western digital don't have any alternative firmwares or firmware updates

m0unds

yeah, they only make firmware updates available if they screw something up during production
at least that's been my exp with them

mercutio

lsi won't support cards that use their chipset

jpalmer

jpalmer ponders spinning up a VM to play with katello

mercutio

i think it was intel lsi card

m0unds

m0unds has no idea what katello is
oh, neat

mercutio

it's kind of bad there's only wd and seagate making disks now imo

m0unds

sounds like fun

mercutio

i never used to try emailing vendors
but i've tried a bit recently
asrock have been the best so far

[17:18]

m0unds

i've heard their support is really good

[17:18]

jpalmer

m0unds: foreman, pulp, candlepin, puppet

[17:19]

jbergstroem

an interesting point on the debian thing is that people probably see it [debian] as different things. arguments on cross-os is probably aligned towards package management and set of rules while others just want "one" operating system.

[17:20]

m0unds

jpalmer: yeah, was just checking out the project's site - sounds neat
i changed my knobset for my garage entry door and keep locking myself out of the house
whoops, wrong channel
haha

[17:20]

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acf_

the packet loss on NTT has gotten really bad
http://kremvax.acfsys.net/smokeping.cgi?target=Remote.comcast6net
http://kremvax.acfsys.net/smokeping.cgi?target=Remote.verizon-snloca

[19:12]

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[19:19]

mercutio

wow
are you sure it's not some icmp limit?
you're not pinging a comcast router are you

[19:27]

acf_

no, that's comcast.com

mercutio

it still might be deprioritisng
i'm doing mtr to that now
see how the hop before doesn't have packet loss
oh now it does
haha
ok i think it is prob an issue

acf_

yeah, my mtrs can confirm that

mercutio

oh that's strange my route is via akamai from home

m0unds

ntt is a lot more jittery for me than nlayer, haha

mercutio

oh you need to leave off www
yeah they been havving issues recently it seems
it seems to come and go a bit

acf_

this is really bad though

mercutio

hmm comcast is fine from home
but it's not going via ntt
ikr
i hadn't seen issues on arp
i think it's random like some ip's may be hit worse than others

acf_

that's what it seems like

[19:31]

mercutio

so yeh 0%packet loss with 100 pings from home
7.1% with 111 packets from arp

[19:31]

acf_

I think it's the return path

mercutio

it's hard to check that
but i can check a different forward path

acf_

well, the return path when pinging comcast->arp

m0unds

return to arp via comcast?
lemme do that (comcast in albuquerque here)

mercutio

ok got a ntt forward path

http://paste.unixcube.org/k/ccdaba

acf_

mercutio

it's being problematic sntraight away

m0unds

my outbound path is via nlayer

acf_

same here

mercutio

restarting it in case it was "getting used to" new traffic

m0unds

it got weird after that last reboot

mercutio

ntt is random

m0unds

return path from arp to comcast used to be symmetrical

mercutio

it seems to randomly have issues on/off

m0unds

so, nlayer out, nlayer back

mercutio

yeah i'm definitely htiting it with forward path via ntt
but not via verizon
well on the positive side it's easier to route around
if up_the_irons will do so

http://pastebin.com/8CDG5nAg

acf_

is up_the_irons planning on making level3 the default outbound path?

[19:34]

mercutio

mind you there's that annaying 100k route limit
i imagine comcast has some big subnets
there's about 560 comcast routes
oh less than that cos double ups etc
about 180

[19:35]

staticsafe

arp networks has level3?

[19:36]

mercutio

they're getting it

[19:36]

staticsafe

[19:36]

mercutio

contract signed, but not in yet
i assume it shouldn't take that long
but you never know

[19:37]

staticsafe

yay for more variety

[19:37]

m0unds

[19:37]

mercutio

i thin kit's actually as6453 creating the isssue btw
i've seen issues with as6453 before
but that was to europe
of course that's a hunch rather than antyhing proven

[19:38]

m0unds

yea, tata sucks
comcast has a funny thing w/tata
they're where comcast traffic goes when you don't want to peer directly with comcast

[19:38]

mercutio

comcast has a funny thing with cogent too
i would say that comcast suck and no-one should care
but i realise comcast is all most people have available
other than at&t dsl :/

m0unds

you don't know too much about us telecom :P

mercutio

i know a bit

m0unds

there's lots of options, comcast is the best in most areas

mercutio

there's verizon fios and cox in some areas
but for instance san jose has just got comcast and at&t

m0unds

cox sucks, verizon isn't great and their installers like setting stuff on fire

mercutio

but yeah i don't know that much
cox use cogent
verizon use vdsl?

staticsafe

my friend in Charlotte, NC has either AT&T DSL or TWC

acf_

verizon is adsl2

m0unds

verizon vdsl2 or fios
err, adsl2

mercutio

i know that at&t suck

m0unds

yea, twc is bad

mercutio

staticsafe: is twc any good?

m0unds

they can't afford to upgrade systems
they're way behind

staticsafe

no idea, I'm not in the US either :p

m0unds

they almost were part of a hostile takeover

mercutio

heh

m0unds

because their customers hate them

mercutio

nice

m0unds

but they're now being forced to actually start investing in infrastructure

staticsafe

not much better over in Ontario, Canada though :(

m0unds

http://stopthecap.com/2014/01/30/time-warner-cable-plans-to-triple-broadband-speeds-if-they-survive-a-hostile-takeover/
err
wrong link
http://www.theverge.com/2014/1/27/5351082/charter-reportedly-selling-comcast-twc-assets-if-buyout-succeeds that was the one i wanted to link
stupid chrome

[19:42]

BryceBot

The Verge: "Comcast reportedly wants to nab millions of customers from Time Warner Cable"

[19:43]

staticsafe

well at least i don't have any usage caps

[19:44]

m0unds

haha, neither do i

[19:44]

mercutio

i like usage caps
i'd rather have fast net than congested net

[19:45]

staticsafe

Jan 8/14 - Feb 7/14 826GB

[19:45]

mercutio

that said i don't have cap
but i like other people to have caps
so my net keeps going fast

staticsafe

lol.

m0unds

show interfaces terse
err, wrong terminal

mercutio

dd if=/dev/urandom of=/dev/sd....
i love trying to explain to people how to extract tarballs
and then they ask what every bit does :/
xz -dc blah.tar.xz | tar -vxf -
etc
i don't even know if tar has an option for xz yet

acf_

tar -xvZf ?

[19:48]

mercutio

does that do xz
i kind of got appehensive when it was I and j for bzip2
and then you found a system that had neither

[19:48]

m0unds

haha, 248.94GB down, 23.66 up

[19:49]

mercutio

hmm
4.7 gig yesterday, 8 gig the ady before
yeh i think i'm a light user

[19:49]

m0unds

and roughly 13.8% of my traffic was ipv6

mercutio

how do you work that out?

m0unds

it's tunneled, so i just graph the ipip if on my srx

mercutio

some days i only do 1.3gig
oh i see

m0unds

so it's an approximation, but i'd say it's reasonable
most of that is probably netflix, oddly enough

mercutio

yah
i reckon 500gb caps all around isn't a bad idea
and pay a little more for 2tb cap or something
or even 250 gig for light

m0unds

i pay a little more for "business internet", and it has no cap

mercutio

but i am against the idea of 1 gig 5 gig etc caps

m0unds

comcast's 3mbit-16mbit usage tiers are 250gb cap
50mbit is 500gb and i think 100mbit is 1tb
or something

[19:52]

mercutio

seems reasonable
can everyone get 50 megabit

[19:52]

m0unds

major metros can, yep

[19:52]

mercutio

so no

m0unds

i think most markets support up to 16mbit

mercutio

so can you pay extra on a 3 to 16 megabit plan to get more than 250gb?

m0unds

doubt it
well
actually
if you pay an extra like $15/mo, you can get biz svc and have no cap

mercutio

and static ip?

[19:54]

m0unds

$20 for no cap and static IP

[19:54]

mercutio

ahh ok
i'd probably just do that
if i had to use comcast
my frieend is on comcast it didn't seem that good though
50 msec pings from sj to sj
high jitter
throughput to arp was ok though

[19:54]

m0unds

sounds like routing is silly

mercutio

i think 20 msec to arp
yeah

m0unds

i ping 9ms to denver

mercutio

it's screwed to cogent :/

m0unds

that's ~400mi from me

[19:56]

mercutio

but seems to have high affinity for cogent or something

[19:56]

m0unds

and i ping 30ms to los angeles, and that's twice as far as denver
oh shit, hahah
i switched over to hbo and didn't realize for almost 5 minutes that it was hbo latino

[19:56]

mercutio

m0unds: wow that's good
my friend in kansas had terrible routing
evernyything went via chicago or texas or both
and neither had very low pings

[20:05]

staticsafe

80ms for me via v4 to ARP

[20:07]

mercutio

which is why i thought it was curious google were doing fibreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
erk
my computer crashed ;/
i was trying to undervolt to try and get it to run cooler
i think i need another fan though
it's like 40c system

[20:11]

m0unds

google's doing screwy stuff to deploy fiber

mercutio

i dont' think kansas has very good routing

m0unds

it's kind of the middle of nowhere, haha

mercutio

i didn't have lots of destinations to try, but there's joes data centre for instance
which would go via texas or something

https://transmission.xmission.com/2013/04/18/the-1-fiber-optic-network

m0unds

[20:13]

mercutio

he wasn't in kansas city
wichita
which doesnt' maen a lot to me
i looked on google maps, and it looked desolate

[20:13]

m0unds

yeah
haha
us is kinda big

[20:13]

mercutio

he had a few internet options that sucked differently
i think it's 140 msec to arp for me
and like 200 to 220 msec to him
but it's like 200 to 220 to east coast too
and can be 160 to texas, 180 to chicago etc

[20:14]

staticsafe

ouch

[20:15]

mercutio

texas seems to be one of the best places for routing i've found
less outages, less congestion etc

m0unds

yea, well connected, especially DFW

mercutio

but that's from external pov

m0unds

atlanta is pretty good too, depending on the facility

mercutio

but kansas, atlanta, , florida etc are bad
i found routing often got indirect to atlanta
virginia is better

m0unds

i'm 60ms to atlanta, or 65ms to VA
haha

[20:17]

mercutio

and like tampa would often go via miami

[20:17]

staticsafe

everything US basically goes through Chicago for me

[20:17]

mercutio

atlanta to tampa would go like via virgina and miami if you're lucky
otherwise it'd go via chicago or new york
you're in canada?

staticsafe

yea

mercutio

hmm

m0unds

toronto?

staticsafe

yes

mercutio

i thought most canada stuff went through seattle or new york

staticsafe

seattle if west coast

mercutio

but chicago is probably better
seattle routing from here isn't wonderful
luckily hardly anything is in seattle :)
other than valve
when the east coast had flooding europe connectivity was really broken from here though
cos like europe goes via west coast us east coast us
and lots of stuff went down
i think there's a path to europe via japan?
but the vast majority relies on new yorkish
and somewhere south of there
which is also exposed
but it's a bit crazy when things 10s of thousands of km away can effect you
maybe they will find a way to put fibre thorugh the core of the earth one day

[20:19]

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up_the_irons

acf_: we run full routing tables, so there really isn't a strict default outbound path

[21:06]

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[21:07]

up_the_irons

mercutio: m0unds : yeah but it crashed within 24 hours of having the any2ix circuit spanned to it. all three times. i've since removed it, and no crash.
m0unds: noted on single TAC case, thanks

[21:09]

m0unds

up_the_irons: good luck - that's so weird though w/the any2ix circuit

[21:11]

up_the_irons

m0unds: mercutio : i also had probs with LSI cards
jpalmer: pulp and candlepin? i gotta google those...

[21:16]

m0unds: might not be so weird if it is an IOS bug. just need to get a newer one and try it.
m0unds: may have not liked some traffic on that shared network. lots of crap tends to come through IX's ;)

[21:21]

m0unds

haha, true

[21:22]

up_the_irons

$ sudo ./birdcl sh p | grep Est
AS45177 BGP master up 04:51:03 Established
AS40528 BGP master up 04:51:02 Established
AS4739 BGP master up 04:51:52 Established
AS15133 BGP master up 04:51:03 Established
AS6939 BGP master up 04:51:05 Established
AS11798 BGP master up 04:51:03 Established
AS20144 BGP master up 04:51:02 Established
AS46489 BGP master up 04:51:04 Established
AS20161 BGP master up 14:20:24 Established
$
First few Any2 peers on BIRD :)

[21:23]

m0unds

nice

[21:26]

up_the_irons

grepidemic: taking this public
grepidemic: BUT, for logging, the complexity might be too much
(we're talking about journald)
grepidemic: that part is kinda neat, yes

[21:28]

grepidemic

it is pretty intuitive though. just have to learn the arguments for journalctl
the arch wiki has a really simplistic rundown of it
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/systemd#Journal

[21:29]

up_the_irons

grepidemic: neat

[21:32]

grepidemic

i'm dont know everything about systemd yet, but just from looking at journald, i can get used to it.

[21:32]

up_the_irons

this part sounds brittle, "If you or some program delete that directory, systemd will not recreate it automatically; however, it will be recreated during the next update of the systemd package. Until then, logs will be written to /run/systemd/journal, and logs will be lost on reboot"

[21:32]

grepidemic

the probability that debian testing will be using systemd prompted me to read more into it.

jbergstroem

I kinda dislike systemd removing choice of syslogger from hte equation

up_the_irons

wow it uses btrfs

jbergstroem

but that's systemd philosophy in general

up_the_irons

the large amount of changes makes me uncomfortable

[21:34]

jbergstroem

I'm (fortunately) on a os where I can choose to avoid systemd if I have to. Will probably revisit down the road

[21:34]

grepidemic

it is a big change... but it is looking like systemd will be the default for most linus distros in the near future.
all the big ones at least.
i think syslog-ng can be used with systemd/journald

[21:35]

up_the_irons

grepidemic: they'll probably tune down the changes though, or introduce them more slowly

[21:37]

grepidemic

there is still a long list of bugs in systemd.
much longer than sysvinit

[21:38]

jbergstroem

this made the rounds today as well: http://ewontfix.com/14/

[21:38]

acf_

up_the_irons: it seems that NTT is having a lot of issues with Comcast and Verizon atm
http://kremvax.acfsys.net/smokeping.cgi?target=Remote.comcastnet
http://kremvax.acfsys.net/smokeping.cgi?target=Remote.verizon-snloca

[21:41]

up_the_irons

acf_: can you provide forward and reverse path? if possible

[21:42]

acf_

of course

[21:42]

grepidemic

regarding having to reboot after an update, it looks like systemd can be restarted with "systemctl daemon-reload"

[21:45]

m0unds

yea
when packages make changes to systemd startup configs, you have to reload the daemon too
or if you add a new service, say you install nginx or something - you'll reload the daemon and it'll become aware of nginx and allow you to control it

[21:48]

acf_

comcast: http://paste.unixcube.org/k/bf88a3
verizon: http://paste.unixcube.org/k/78f880

[21:50]

m0unds

but it detects that something's different and prompts you to reload it (at least in the case of arch)

[21:50]

up_the_irons

acf_: thanks
acf_: some of those routers might rate limit ICMP (we do also)

[21:53]

grepidemic

my stance on systemd is still neutral, but i do really like journald. i would use it with sysvinit if that is possible (i'm gonna go look that up).

[21:57]

mercutio

up_the_irons: for stuff passing through?
up_the_irons: i adjusted trafic to send out via ntt and hit the same issue
with reverse path intact
and wasn't seeing packet loss normally
it could be rate limiting sending icmp through, it does happen, but i don't think it's likely
and i've seen more than one weird ntt packet loss issue recently

[21:57]

up_the_irons

mercutio: well, traceroutes never really "pass thru"; what you see is the response to the TTL dying, and some of those ICMPs will be dropped by CPU rate limiting

mercutio

and i know it slows ssh down and that's when i notice teh packet loss in mtr
up_the_irons: yehn but it's to every hop until the destination
including the destination

up_the_irons

mercutio: ok, if ssh slows, then that is more of a concern

mercutio

usually if it's rate limiting you'll see like 20% 20% 0%
or such
or 20% 15% 0% 35%
etc

jbergstroem

grepidemic: guessing no

mercutio

like often one hop doesn't rate limiting icmp as much

acf_

a normal 1 second interval ping shows packet loss here

mercutio

err rate likmit

up_the_irons

you may want to contact their NOC (noc@us.ntt.net)

mercutio

i know it's psuedo science
up_the_irons: it was too diff destination i saw ssh packet loss
err ssh lag
i can't ssh to comcast
and it was very on/off

up_the_irons

starbucks kicking me out (closing), bbiab

mercutio

nlayer rate limit a lot of icmp btw
it's annoying :/

[22:00]

acf_

fwiw, NTT noc says "
We are not seeing any packet loss within our network. To investigate this issue further please contact your upstream provider."

[22:00]

mercutio

haha
shit
i don't think it's necessarily ntt's fault in this instance

[22:03]

acf_

my guess is overloaded interconnects

[22:03]

mercutio

we determined it could be tata
it's relaly hard to know

[22:03]

acf_

how about NTT <-> Verizon

mercutio

cos of what up_the_irons said about icmp rate limiting
got a test destination?

acf_

yeah

mercutio

ok tell me i'll test it
but i'll make another coffee first :)

acf_

72.55.8.69 for comcast
108.40.173.223 for verizon (beware super slow dsl)
but no packet loss to google

[22:05]

mercutio

i repeated the comcast issue

[22:06]

acf_

I agree it's probably not in the NTT backbone

[22:06]

mercutio

ok verizon normal path is via alter.net
(verizon)
which a little jitter
is AS2914 ntt
yip cool
verizon looks fine too
via ntt
which means it's prob reverse path if chornically bad
oh no some packet loss

[22:06]

acf_

it seems like the loss is only at the lax verizon <-> NTT exchange btw

[22:09]

mercutio

it's not nearly as bad as that comcast one was

[22:09]

acf_

I get http://paste.unixcube.org/k/e57747

[22:10]

mercutio

the jitter is worse via ntt too
this is via lax
i screwed my up my other route i don't think i can send via sj
oh i can send via sj
interesting
via san jose only seeing packet loss on last hop and in betwen hops
err and some early ones
which always depriortise
but via los angeles seing it on last 3 hops
err 4 hops
but i changed source ip gah

[22:10]

acf_

yep. that's what I've been seeing

[22:11]

mercutio

last 4 hops?

[22:12]

acf_

yeah

[22:12]

mercutio

why am i only seeing last hop
bah i'll fowrad it through oso i can keep to same source address
the jitter is def worse via ntt
ok last two hops now
and it's either wose right now
or sj is worse than la for forward path with reverse path combined too
i'm seeing 17% packet loss

[22:12]

acf_

http://paste.unixcube.org/k/78f880
the bottom one basically describes what I've been seeing for the last few days

[22:14]

mercutio

yeah that's what i was seeing orig
hangon i'll pastebin
actually what's your paste thing :)

[22:14]

acf_

http://paste.unixcube.org/
runs from arp

[22:15]

mercutio

heh
cool
http://paste.unixcube.org/k/e57f7a
it went down a bit
so sampling bias :)
it seems like it gets better and worse

[22:15]

acf_

yeah, that's been happening a lot for me

[22:16]

mercutio

so ok, it doesn't matter if it's sj or la
and it's better over alter.net
i'll shift it back to alter.net
and wait a minute or two
oh only being last two hops i think is cos shorter route?
i having problems cutting grr
i hate linux cutg and pate
paste
http://paste.unixcube.org/k/7dfe16
weird going from top to bottom fixed it

[22:16]

acf_

that one looks nice

mercutio

oh i got a packet dropped
that's like what was happeing with comcast too :/

acf_

maybe my crappy dsl
http://paste.unixcube.org/k/8ad869

mercutio

well the first one had depriorisation on some hops

acf_

packet loss stops when return path changes (NTT <-> Verizon in Dallas instead of LAX)

mercutio

but still packet loss to destination is WAY down
and the source ip remained the same
so basically it doesn't matter if it goes via sj or la from ntt
they both suck
but alter.net is fine
well when i talk about fowrard path you're talking about return path right
forward path for me is my traffic going to your dsl
and return path for you is traffic coming to you

[22:21]

acf_

yep, I'm switching them

[22:22]

mercutio

ok so dallas is better

[22:22]

acf_

yeah

mercutio

los angeles and san jose may share some hidden path
like i don't know what city you in
but i'm sure it's not in california

acf_

lsanca == San Luis Obispo, CA

mercutio

so there's probably an in between point hidden
you are in california?

acf_

everything from here goes though lax
yep
verizon dsl sucks

mercutio

dude your internet sucks
i have better pings to new york :/

acf_

sometimes it's not as bad lol
*lsanca snloca

[22:24]

mercutio

yeah i'm in new zealand which you may have been able to tell from those traces ;)
and that's from dsl
why woudl it e going via dallas

[22:24]

acf_

ntt.net is in tx

[22:25]

mercutio

oh hmm
ntt.net is japanese

[22:25]

acf_

us.ntt.net goes the same place afaik

[22:25]

mercutio

hmm i found somewhere with nlayer to trace from
it's still jittery but not lossy
it's nlayer -> alter.net -> verizon

[22:26]

acf_

the arp path does that once in a while

[22:26]

mercutio

ahh ok
yeh it looks fine

acf_

yesterday I think it did that and the packet loss stopped

mercutio

i don't think up_the_irons wants to get involved in screwing with routes lots

acf_

yeah that sounds messy

mercutio

heh i did it a bit before
but i just did sweeping generalisations
like "prepend anything that says cogent"
so that if a non cogent route is available it tcan take that
if it's not much longer
and some shift for at&t traffic
if it's just verizon and comcast which both have heaps of users maybe he'd make adjustments?
1% packet loss via nlayer now heh

acf_

maybe. it seems like he has ntt prioritized heavily?

mercutio

it hink your dsl does drop packets a bit too

acf_

likely

mercutio

it's default route
cos the old router has 100k table limit
comcast has 180 routes
i dunno how many verizon have

acf_

plenty I'm sure

http://bgp.he.net/AS701#_asinfo

mercutio

but i reckon we should try and get them to be part of it :)
not necessarily
bigger providers often have less prefixes
as they just get huge chunks
i can check
yeh
verizon have heaps
198.181.111.0/24, 198.181.112.0/24
etc
nearly 1500
oh that can't be aggregated
cos that would be 110 and 111
198.105.10.0/24 and 198.105.11.0/24
that can be aggregated though
and 198.105.8.0/24 and 198.105.9.0/24

[22:30]

acf_

"AS701 announces bogons"
why would they do that?

[22:33]

mercutio

do they

[22:33]

acf_

[22:34]

mercutio

192.203.48.0/20 looks dodgy
nah it looks fine actually
what bogons

[22:34]

acf_

http://bgp.he.net/AS701#_bogons
oh wow 192.168.0.0/16
oh 198.168.0.0/16

[22:35]

up_the_irons

wow

[22:36]

mercutio

192 is mostly legacy space
up_the_irons: we talked a lot while you were away

[22:36]

up_the_irons

i saw the scrollback

[22:36]

mercutio

i dunno how bogus these ips really are
it's more just that no-one has notes on what they are

[22:37]

up_the_irons

traffic issues on other networks is a PITA. You fix one thing, another thing breaks. It never ends.

[22:37]

mercutio

up_the_irons: yes
which is why it only makes sense if it's severe

[22:38]

acf_

I would think NTT and Verizon would have decent networks and be fairly responsive to issues of this severity
oh well

[22:39]

mercutio

well ntt have been having issues only recently right?
i reckon comcast is more worth fixing than verizon
they have way less routes too
ho hmm
ok got a comcast dsl ip
weird i'm not seeing issues, only jhitter at last hop

[22:39]

acf_

things are looking better
on comcast
http://kremvax.acfsys.net/smokeping.cgi?target=Remote.comcastnet

[22:43]

mercutio

oh
wow so on/off
is comcast ip static normally?

[22:43]

acf_

I don't think so

[22:44]

mercutio

will get him to setup smokepnig maybe :)

[22:44]

m0unds_

comcast tends to assign "sticky" IPs - so long as your cpe doesnt change and isnt powered off for longer than it takes to release the dhcp lease, youll likely have the same addr for a long time.

mercutio

yeh i'll get him to curl some file randomly

m0unds_

when i had residential svc, my dhcp addr stuck with me for over a year

mercutio

he's running into some depency issues
oh interesting.
usually when people say sticky ip it's sticky until you want to access it

m0unds_

it only changed when they brought new cmts gear up
at least in my case

[22:49]

mercutio

oh
maybe they'll do that to him
is 4 msec jitter normal?

[22:49]

m0unds_

yea

[22:50]

mercutio

it's 0.1 jitter two hops prior
(and worse the hop immediately before
oh i thought that may mean he was legacy node

[22:50]

m0unds_

i dont tend to worry til it hits +/- 15-20ms continually

mercutio

well both traces have go ne over 500 seconds / 500 pings with no loss

m0unds_

mercutio

i worry about 2 or 3 msec jitter normally
but maye i shouldn't
for idle connectinos
it tends to suggest there's some congestion somewehre
but it depends on bandwidth etc
like 2 to 3 msec jitter on gigabit means it's pretty packed