#arpnetworks 2014-02-09,Sun

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WhoWhatWhen
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mike-bur1 is now known as mike-burns
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brycec<.<
>.>
No drop at ~6am, yay
[09:16]
mercutiohah
yeh
so it wsa just any2ix creating issues/
[09:18]
m0undsi'd say no
he mentioned memory corruption, so i'd guess that it's hw or less likely, an ios bug
up_the_irons: TAC does do case-by-case TAC stuff, but it seems like not all of their support people have any idea how to even set it up. we had a series of HW issues in july, and since we don't keep TAC contracts (ime, they're worthless about 85% of the time), we had to escalate to a manager to get a one-time case opened
[09:20]
mercutioit sucks when random traffic can crash a router [09:30]
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brycecIt's a terrible router that can be crashed by random traffic :p [09:46]
m0undsyeah, and it's terrible when "support engineers" are paid to search through old support cases and KB entries hoping they can find somethign similar
and that during an environment down emergency they'll just tell you "sorry, we don't have a product engineer available because it's saturday; can you wait til monday for a callback?"
mad awesome
[10:00]
mercutiowow [10:03]
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FreeSpencerWas there ever an east coast location with ARPNetworks? [10:20]
mercutionot yet
i think it's due to come this year
[10:20]
FreeSpencerHas it always been LA? [10:20]
mercutioyeh [10:20]
FreeSpencerHmm nvm then! [10:21]
staticsafei told you FreeSpencer [10:21]
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staticsafelol [10:21]
mercutiowhat [10:21]
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m0undshahaha
LA is..east of hawaii?
[10:36]
mike-burnsYup. [10:37]
mercutionorth east [10:42]
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m0undsi was meaning in the context of an "east" location, hahaha
i need a new office chair
[11:12]
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mercutiooh right [11:44]
brycecI do too... Seemed like a fine chair when I bought it, but less than a year later the cylinder won't hold pressure (10 minutes is all it takes), and the right armrest doesn't attach to the back correctly anymore (leaning back is exciting). [11:57]
mercutioit's a pita shpopoing for new office chairs
most aren't very good
and how are you meant to know if it'll fail in a year's time withotu researching
my old chair lost gas acutally
but it was also really worn by then
adn it was about 7 years old
i dunno how long they're meant to last
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toddfanybody notice v6 issues?
I can ping6 google, but not facebook, and not my end of a he.net tunnel
[12:56]
mnathanipinging fine for me facebook v6 [12:58]
toddffrom your arpnetworks vps? [12:58]
mnathaniyup
http://pastebin.com/cCTnCzXG

could be due to your gigabit connectivity?
[13:01]
toddfI'd expect google would not work then
can you ping6 0.v.freedaemon.com ?
oh google doesn't work via v6
yeah likely something was not saved or something, the odd thing though is I see the v6 router
http://sprunge.us/DXTG
[13:03]
mnathani5 packets transmitted, 0 received, 100% packet loss, time 4101ms ( 0.v.freedaemon.com ) [13:07]
toddfsent a support request. [13:19]
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mnathaniAre you experiencing the same on all your vpsen?
I guess they are all in the same VLAN
[13:55]
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m0undsmercutio: yea, i had my previous one for 9 years..it was a cheapie, but it was uncomfortable by about year 4. i just couldn't find any i liked, so i gave up on it [14:28]
mercutiomy chair is annyoing me
but it's liek $700 for a good chair
[14:28]
m0undsi just bought some commercial grade one like i have at work [14:29]
CaZeBuild your own tractor seat chair. [14:29]
m0undshaha
officemax had a $30 off coupon thing, so this one ended up being almost $150 off w/their office furniture promotion
[14:32]
mercutiohttp://www.wired.com/reviews/2013/06/office-chair-gallery/ [14:35]
BryceBotWired: "You're Gonna Want to Sit Down for This: 6 High-End Desk Chairs Reviewed | Product Reviews | Wired.com" [14:35]
m0undsbrycec: does BryceBot have URL shortening capabilities?
haha, nice chairs
cheapest one is only roughly 175% of the cost of this one, hahahaha
[14:36]
mercutiosee they're all expensive [14:39]
m0undsyea
http://www.officemax.com/catalog/2013/Customs/WorkPro/cst-workpro-chair4.png
[14:39]
mercutioi thought i should splash out on a chair sometime [14:39]
CaZeI'm perfectly comfortable withot armrests. [14:39]
mercutiobut i'd want to do enoqugh research [14:39]
m0undsi can go either way - arm rests get in the way of my desk
also, my cat likes armrests
[14:40]
mercutiothat looks like my chair sort of [14:40]
m0undshe likes to stand up and paw at my arm to get my attention [14:40]
mercutioonly sort of
the back looks diff
[14:40]
m0undsi wasn't a fan of mesh backs at first, but i grew to like how well it breathes [14:40]
mercutioi have mesh with a soft headrest type thing [14:40]
m0undsespecially when it's warm
yeah - that's how my work one is, has a mesh headrest
i'm too tall for that though, so i just removed it
[14:40]
mercutioit's that where you sit down is to thin that seems to my biggest issue [14:41]
CaZehttp://www.target.com/p/tractor-chair-black/-/A-13704390?ref=tgt_adv_XSG10001&AFID=Google_PLA_df&LNM=%7C13704390&CPNG=Furniture&kpid=13704390&LID=PA&ci_src=17588969&ci_sku=13704390&gclid=CKDU5r6OwLwCFUcV7AodRS4ALw [14:41]
mercutioand tends to thin in the middle after owning longer [14:41]
CaZeI used to have that. [14:41]
mercutionow that i think about it it's probably fixable
i suppose you could probably open it up and replace whatever cushion type thing is in there
[14:41]
CaZeI was perfectly comfortable in it, but the plastic eventually cracked in the seat.
I bought a metal tractor seat off of ebay with the intention of replacing it.
Never got around to it though.
[14:42]
mercutioarctulaly it looks like it's not that easy
and would involve unscrewing the bottom
[14:42]
m0undsyea, or the cushion might be glued in place and screwed in place [14:43]
mercutioit doesn't matter if it glued [14:43]
m0undslike, wood board with cushion and upholstery glued to it, then the whole thing screwed into the base [14:43]
mercutioyou just pack another one on in middle [14:43]
CaZeTWSS [14:44]
BryceBotOkay! twss! 'you just pack another one on in middle' [14:44]
mercutiothe thing is i don't even weigh a lot [14:44]
m0undsthe upholstery would probably fail and it'd look like you beat the stuffing out of the seat, hahaha [14:44]
mercutioi must sit a lot ;/ [14:44]
m0undshahahaha
get one of those kneeling seats
http://vvro.us/1f7JlPB they look goofy
it's like a bicycle seat and part of a massage chair or something
[14:44]
mercutiooh i tried one of those once [14:45]
CaZeCan't wank in those. [14:46]
mercutionever got used to it [14:46]
m0undsyou could, but you'd probably break your kneck
neck*
kneck? wtf.
[14:46]
mercutioi dno't think the one i used had wheels [14:46]
m0undsm0unds sighs
yeah, i'd think the wheels would make it more dangerous
[14:46]
mercutioi like the idea of a standing desk
have you guys heard of that?
[14:46]
m0undsyeah, i did that for a few weeks [14:46]
mercutiohow'd it go? [14:47]
m0undsraised my workstation up to chest level
pretty well, but i found that it was hard to get my displays quite right
i have them on arms, but they didn't have enough tilt to get them to where i could look at them naturally
[14:47]
mercutiohmm
now that you mention it i'd probably have that issue too
[14:47]
m0undsmy legs felt great though
haha
[14:47]
mercutioi want to try it
but my desk can't raise that high
heh
[14:47]
m0undsput another desk on top of your desk [14:48]
mercutiodid your normal desk support it?
that soudns dangerous
[14:48]
m0undsonly if you don't anchor that sucker [14:48]
mercutioearthquakes don't happen here, but wheer i used to live i had to move from because of earthquakes
so i'm paranoid now
[14:48]
m0undsyeah, my desk at work is adjustable for height [14:49]
mercutiolike i'm always thinking where things might fall :) [14:49]
m0undshttp://www.katu.com/news/local/Snow-plow-rolls-blocks-Highway-105--244634991.html yeesh [14:49]
mercutiois the US still screwed up by weather?
it was like < 0c highs when i last looked
[14:49]
m0undsit's 65F here today; should be 30-40 [14:50]
mercutioi forgot the command [14:50]
m0unds@wa 65F in C
i think
[14:50]
mercutio65f is 18.3c [14:50]
BryceBotconvert 65 °F (degrees Fahrenheit) to degrees Celsius;18.33 °C (degrees Celsius);291.48 K (kelvins);524.67 °R (degrees Rankine);14.667 °Ré (degrees Réaumur);17.125 °Rø (degrees Rømer);1.667 °C below temperature at STP (standard temperature and pressure), using the National Institute of Standards and Technology convention (20 °C);2.778 °C above temperature at STP (standard temperature and pressure), using the US customary convent [14:50]
mercutioso slightly cold [14:50]
m0unds@wa 30F in C
^ that's what it should be
[14:50]
BryceBotconvert 30 °F (degrees Fahrenheit) to degrees Celsius;-1.111 °C (degrees Celsius);272.04 K (kelvins);489.67 °R (degrees Rankine);-0.88889 °Ré (degrees Réaumur);6.9167 °Rø (degrees Rømer);1.111 °C below melting point of water ice (at standard pressure) (0 °C);1.111 °C below temperature at STP (standard temperature and pressure), using the International Union of Pure and Applied Chemistry convention (0 °C);1.11 °C below ice poin [14:50]
mercutio@wa 0c in f [14:50]
m0unds32 [14:50]
BryceBotconvert 0 °C (degrees Celsius) to degrees Fahrenheit;32 °F (degrees Fahrenheit);273.15 K (kelvins);491.67 °R (degrees Rankine);0 °Ré (degrees Réaumur);7.5 °Rø (degrees Rømer);= melting point of water ice (at standard pressure) (0 °C);= temperature at STP (standard temperature and pressure), using the International Union of Pure and Applied Chemistry convention (0 °C);~~ ice point of water (273.15 K);temperature;[temperature];Ther [14:50]
m0undsi know that offhand
haha
[14:50]
mercutiooh [14:51]
m0undsbut yea, should be around that as a high where i live, but it's been in the 60s on and off for two weeks [14:51]
mercutionice [14:51]
m0undsdriving me nuts
i want snow
[14:51]
mercutioso do i
it's only 23c here atm
but it might get hotter :(
i wish it could abbbbbbbereviate
23c=73.4f
heh my repeat value a bit high
do you ever get stuck at work?
by snow
[14:51]
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m0undsumm, i've gotten stuck there twice
once for ice and once for snow
biggest snow i can remember here was ~60cm or so
[15:18]
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brycecHaha, it does, but they're not enabled (last I checked). BryceBot only has URL de-shortening :D 14:35:21 >> m0unds<< brycec: does BryceBot have URL shortening capabilities?
(Because brycec hates shortened URLs)
[16:02]
mercutiohaha debian is falling apart [16:12]
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jbergstroemmercutio: init debacle you mean? [16:53]
mercutioup_the_irons: yes
people are asking Ian to resign.
https://lists.debian.org/debian-ctte/2014/02/msg00363.html
it's like a university.
on a positive note i figured out how to get notrack to work.
[17:00]
m0undsmo drammuh [17:01]
mercutioi want to see systemd go ahead. [17:01]
m0undsi just wanna see something modern and well engineered
but OMGZ NAHT INIT NAHT GUN UZE IT
[17:02]
mercutiowell i find systemd a little confusing
but it has grown on me over time
and nearly everyone except ubuntu is using it
and ubuntu seems to just want to do things differently for the sake of it
i also want to see waylong go ahead rather than mir
[17:02]
m0undsyea, i felt the same way about systemd, but it makes a lot of sense in a lot of ways
and i like how you can specify dependencies for startup and stuff
[17:03]
mercutioi still haven't found a linux i really like
i've started using arch for personal systems
but i don't think it's really suitable for critical systems
not really a fan of ubuntu, centos, or debian. debian and centos have outdated packages.
ubuntu at least has 2 yearly long term versions, but has a few annoying things
so in the end i end up using ubuntu anyway. but it doesn't mean it's ideal.
i kind of think debian has to look at two year release cycle or such
actually it looks like it does have two year release cycle now
i thin it was woody -> sarge when i moved to ubuntu
[17:04]
jpalmermercutio: outdated packages == system stability. keep in mind, they do backport security fixes [17:10]
mercutioyeah i had problems with php 4 and apache 1.3 ?
debian was quite far behind with php
that said i shifted to ubuntu 6 monthly rather than two yearly
php is a bit of a nightmare though
[17:10]
jpalmerjpalmer uses CentOS at work. [17:11]
mercutiodo you like centos? [17:11]
jpalmeryeah, I personally avoid PHP like the devil. [17:11]
m0undsif your hw is supported by debian or centos, it works great
but modern raid cards and stuff can be a huge hassle
[17:11]
mercutioi kind of would like to see things like tmux stay current
or be included
[17:12]
m0undsdepending on mfgr [17:12]
mercutiowhereas core thingss can be a bit more stable
i've been using custom kernels for a while now
m0unds: that advice was valid 15 years ago
[17:12]
jpalmermercutio: At this point, all of the unixen are very similar to me. I use puppet, so.. I just define what I think the system should look like.. and puppet "makes it happen" [17:12]
mercutiois it still the way it is? :) [17:12]
m0undsit's still valid.
haha
puppet is great
[17:12]
mercutiothe annoying thing i foundwith centos is it had lots of braindead config by default which required tweaking
i like openbsd having bare config, but still keeping important things there
[17:13]
m0undslots of LSI cards have issues with 2.6.x kernels, as much as that shouldn't happen [17:13]
mercutiointeretsing [17:13]
m0undsit does and it's annoying [17:14]
mercutiolsi 9211 is fine isn't it? [17:14]
jpalmermercutio: I don't really consider that a valid concern/issue. as an admin, I very rarely ever install anything, and leave a default config. tweaking and such are a fact of life [17:14]
mercutiotrue i just feel like it's nice when systems depart from defaults in known ways. .
i think it was things like ntp from memory
[17:14]
m0undsno idea, but a client of mine managed to find three separate lsi card models made in the last 2 years that would crash and die pretty regularly [17:14]
mercutiom0unds: ouch. [17:15]
m0undsi thought it was the disks at first, but then noticed that happened with every disk we tried [17:15]
mercutioi saw a problem with lsi and western digital disks
i was wondering what was happening :/
but in the end it magically worked with seagate disks
[17:15]
m0undsyeah, that sort of behavior is total crap in 2014
hahaha
[17:16]
mercutioyeah this was older hardware
but still
i tried emailing lsi and western digital
western digital don't have any alternative firmwares or firmware updates
[17:16]
m0undsyeah, they only make firmware updates available if they screw something up during production
at least that's been my exp with them
[17:16]
mercutiolsi won't support cards that use their chipset [17:16]
jpalmerjpalmer ponders spinning up a VM to play with katello [17:16]
mercutioi think it was intel lsi card [17:17]
m0undsm0unds has no idea what katello is
oh, neat
[17:17]
mercutioit's kind of bad there's only wd and seagate making disks now imo [17:17]
m0undssounds like fun [17:17]
mercutioi never used to try emailing vendors
but i've tried a bit recently
asrock have been the best so far
[17:18]
m0undsi've heard their support is really good [17:18]
jpalmerm0unds: foreman, pulp, candlepin, puppet [17:19]
jbergstroeman interesting point on the debian thing is that people probably see it [debian] as different things. arguments on cross-os is probably aligned towards package management and set of rules while others just want "one" operating system. [17:20]
m0undsjpalmer: yeah, was just checking out the project's site - sounds neat
i changed my knobset for my garage entry door and keep locking myself out of the house
whoops, wrong channel
haha
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acf_the packet loss on NTT has gotten really bad
http://kremvax.acfsys.net/smokeping.cgi?target=Remote.comcast6net
http://kremvax.acfsys.net/smokeping.cgi?target=Remote.verizon-snloca
[19:12]
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[19:19]
mercutiowow
are you sure it's not some icmp limit?
you're not pinging a comcast router are you
[19:27]
acf_no, that's comcast.com [19:29]
mercutioit still might be deprioritisng
i'm doing mtr to that now
see how the hop before doesn't have packet loss
oh now it does
haha
ok i think it is prob an issue
[19:29]
acf_yeah, my mtrs can confirm that [19:29]
mercutiooh that's strange my route is via akamai from home [19:29]
m0undsntt is a lot more jittery for me than nlayer, haha [19:30]
mercutiooh you need to leave off www
yeah they been havving issues recently it seems
it seems to come and go a bit
[19:30]
acf_this is really bad though [19:30]
mercutiohmm comcast is fine from home
but it's not going via ntt
ikr
i hadn't seen issues on arp
i think it's random like some ip's may be hit worse than others
[19:30]
acf_that's what it seems like [19:31]
mercutioso yeh 0%packet loss with 100 pings from home
7.1% with 111 packets from arp
[19:31]
acf_I think it's the return path [19:32]
mercutioit's hard to check that
but i can check a different forward path
[19:32]
acf_well, the return path when pinging comcast->arp [19:32]
m0undsreturn to arp via comcast?
lemme do that (comcast in albuquerque here)
[19:32]
mercutiook got a ntt forward path [19:32]
acf_http://paste.unixcube.org/k/ccdaba [19:32]
mercutioit's being problematic sntraight away [19:33]
m0undsmy outbound path is via nlayer [19:33]
acf_same here [19:33]
mercutiorestarting it in case it was "getting used to" new traffic [19:33]
m0undsit got weird after that last reboot [19:33]
mercutiontt is random [19:33]
m0undsreturn path from arp to comcast used to be symmetrical [19:33]
mercutioit seems to randomly have issues on/off [19:33]
m0undsso, nlayer out, nlayer back [19:33]
mercutioyeah i'm definitely htiting it with forward path via ntt
but not via verizon
well on the positive side it's easier to route around
if up_the_irons will do so
[19:33]
acf_is up_the_irons planning on making level3 the default outbound path? [19:34]
mercutiomind you there's that annaying 100k route limit
i imagine comcast has some big subnets
there's about 560 comcast routes
oh less than that cos double ups etc
about 180
[19:35]
staticsafearp networks has level3? [19:36]
mercutiothey're getting it [19:36]
staticsafe:o [19:36]
mercutiocontract signed, but not in yet
i assume it shouldn't take that long
but you never know
[19:37]
staticsafeyay for more variety [19:37]
m0undshttp://pastebin.com/8CDG5nAg [19:37]
mercutioi thin kit's actually as6453 creating the isssue btw
i've seen issues with as6453 before
but that was to europe
of course that's a hunch rather than antyhing proven
[19:38]
m0undsyea, tata sucks
comcast has a funny thing w/tata
they're where comcast traffic goes when you don't want to peer directly with comcast
[19:38]
mercutiocomcast has a funny thing with cogent too
i would say that comcast suck and no-one should care
but i realise comcast is all most people have available
other than at&t dsl :/
[19:39]
m0undsyou don't know too much about us telecom :P [19:39]
mercutioi know a bit [19:39]
m0undsthere's lots of options, comcast is the best in most areas [19:39]
mercutiothere's verizon fios and cox in some areas
but for instance san jose has just got comcast and at&t
[19:39]
m0undscox sucks, verizon isn't great and their installers like setting stuff on fire [19:40]
mercutiobut yeah i don't know that much
cox use cogent
verizon use vdsl?
[19:40]
staticsafemy friend in Charlotte, NC has either AT&T DSL or TWC [19:40]
acf_verizon is adsl2 [19:40]
m0undsverizon vdsl2 or fios
err, adsl2
[19:40]
mercutioi know that at&t suck [19:40]
m0undsyea, twc is bad [19:40]
mercutiostaticsafe: is twc any good? [19:40]
m0undsthey can't afford to upgrade systems
they're way behind
[19:41]
staticsafeno idea, I'm not in the US either :p [19:41]
m0undsthey almost were part of a hostile takeover [19:41]
mercutioheh [19:41]
m0undsbecause their customers hate them [19:41]
mercutionice [19:41]
m0undsbut they're now being forced to actually start investing in infrastructure [19:41]
staticsafenot much better over in Ontario, Canada though :( [19:41]
m0undshttp://stopthecap.com/2014/01/30/time-warner-cable-plans-to-triple-broadband-speeds-if-they-survive-a-hostile-takeover/
err
wrong link
http://www.theverge.com/2014/1/27/5351082/charter-reportedly-selling-comcast-twc-assets-if-buyout-succeeds that was the one i wanted to link
stupid chrome
[19:42]
BryceBotThe Verge: "Comcast reportedly wants to nab millions of customers from Time Warner Cable" [19:43]
staticsafewell at least i don't have any usage caps [19:44]
m0undshaha, neither do i [19:44]
mercutioi like usage caps
i'd rather have fast net than congested net
[19:45]
staticsafeJan 8/14 - Feb 7/14 826GB [19:45]
mercutiothat said i don't have cap
but i like other people to have caps
so my net keeps going fast
[19:46]
staticsafelol. [19:46]
m0undsshow interfaces terse
err, wrong terminal
[19:46]
mercutiodd if=/dev/urandom of=/dev/sd....
i love trying to explain to people how to extract tarballs
and then they ask what every bit does :/
xz -dc blah.tar.xz | tar -vxf -
etc
i don't even know if tar has an option for xz yet
[19:46]
acf_tar -xvZf ? [19:48]
mercutiodoes that do xz
i kind of got appehensive when it was I and j for bzip2
and then you found a system that had neither
[19:48]
m0undshaha, 248.94GB down, 23.66 up [19:49]
mercutiohmm
4.7 gig yesterday, 8 gig the ady before
yeh i think i'm a light user
[19:49]
m0undsand roughly 13.8% of my traffic was ipv6 [19:50]
mercutiohow do you work that out? [19:50]
m0undsit's tunneled, so i just graph the ipip if on my srx [19:50]
mercutiosome days i only do 1.3gig
oh i see
[19:50]
m0undsso it's an approximation, but i'd say it's reasonable
most of that is probably netflix, oddly enough
[19:51]
mercutioyah
i reckon 500gb caps all around isn't a bad idea
and pay a little more for 2tb cap or something
or even 250 gig for light
[19:51]
m0undsi pay a little more for "business internet", and it has no cap [19:51]
mercutiobut i am against the idea of 1 gig 5 gig etc caps [19:51]
m0undscomcast's 3mbit-16mbit usage tiers are 250gb cap
50mbit is 500gb and i think 100mbit is 1tb
or something
[19:52]
mercutioseems reasonable
can everyone get 50 megabit
[19:52]
m0undsmajor metros can, yep [19:52]
mercutioso no [19:53]
m0undsi think most markets support up to 16mbit [19:53]
mercutioso can you pay extra on a 3 to 16 megabit plan to get more than 250gb? [19:53]
m0undsdoubt it
well
actually
if you pay an extra like $15/mo, you can get biz svc and have no cap
[19:53]
mercutioand static ip? [19:54]
m0unds$20 for no cap and static IP [19:54]
mercutioahh ok
i'd probably just do that
if i had to use comcast
my frieend is on comcast it didn't seem that good though
50 msec pings from sj to sj
high jitter
throughput to arp was ok though
[19:54]
m0undssounds like routing is silly [19:55]
mercutioi think 20 msec to arp
yeah
[19:55]
m0undsi ping 9ms to denver [19:55]
mercutioit's screwed to cogent :/ [19:55]
m0undsthat's ~400mi from me [19:56]
mercutiobut seems to have high affinity for cogent or something [19:56]
m0undsand i ping 30ms to los angeles, and that's twice as far as denver
oh shit, hahah
i switched over to hbo and didn't realize for almost 5 minutes that it was hbo latino
[19:56]
mercutiom0unds: wow that's good
my friend in kansas had terrible routing
evernyything went via chicago or texas or both
and neither had very low pings
[20:05]
staticsafe80ms for me via v4 to ARP [20:07]
mercutiowhich is why i thought it was curious google were doing fibreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
erk
my computer crashed ;/
i was trying to undervolt to try and get it to run cooler
i think i need another fan though
it's like 40c system
[20:11]
m0undsgoogle's doing screwy stuff to deploy fiber [20:12]
mercutioi dont' think kansas has very good routing [20:12]
m0undsit's kind of the middle of nowhere, haha [20:12]
mercutioi didn't have lots of destinations to try, but there's joes data centre for instance
which would go via texas or something
[20:12]
m0undshttps://transmission.xmission.com/2013/04/18/the-1-fiber-optic-network [20:13]
mercutiohe wasn't in kansas city
wichita
which doesnt' maen a lot to me
i looked on google maps, and it looked desolate
[20:13]
m0undsyeah
haha
us is kinda big
[20:13]
mercutiohe had a few internet options that sucked differently
i think it's 140 msec to arp for me
and like 200 to 220 msec to him
but it's like 200 to 220 to east coast too
and can be 160 to texas, 180 to chicago etc
[20:14]
staticsafeouch [20:15]
mercutiotexas seems to be one of the best places for routing i've found
less outages, less congestion etc
[20:16]
m0undsyea, well connected, especially DFW [20:16]
mercutiobut that's from external pov [20:16]
m0undsatlanta is pretty good too, depending on the facility [20:16]
mercutiobut kansas, atlanta, , florida etc are bad
i found routing often got indirect to atlanta
virginia is better
[20:16]
m0undsi'm 60ms to atlanta, or 65ms to VA
haha
[20:17]
mercutioand like tampa would often go via miami [20:17]
staticsafeeverything US basically goes through Chicago for me [20:17]
mercutioatlanta to tampa would go like via virgina and miami if you're lucky
otherwise it'd go via chicago or new york
you're in canada?
[20:18]
staticsafeyea [20:18]
mercutiohmm [20:18]
m0undstoronto? [20:18]
staticsafeyes [20:18]
mercutioi thought most canada stuff went through seattle or new york [20:18]
staticsafeseattle if west coast [20:18]
mercutiobut chicago is probably better
seattle routing from here isn't wonderful
luckily hardly anything is in seattle :)
other than valve
when the east coast had flooding europe connectivity was really broken from here though
cos like europe goes via west coast us east coast us
and lots of stuff went down
i think there's a path to europe via japan?
but the vast majority relies on new yorkish
and somewhere south of there
which is also exposed
but it's a bit crazy when things 10s of thousands of km away can effect you
maybe they will find a way to put fibre thorugh the core of the earth one day
[20:19]
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......... (idle for 44mn)
up_the_ironsacf_: we run full routing tables, so there really isn't a strict default outbound path [21:06]
***qwerty_ has joined #arpnetworks
qwerty_ has left
[21:07]
up_the_ironsmercutio: m0unds : yeah but it crashed within 24 hours of having the any2ix circuit spanned to it. all three times. i've since removed it, and no crash.
m0unds: noted on single TAC case, thanks
[21:09]
m0undsup_the_irons: good luck - that's so weird though w/the any2ix circuit [21:11]
up_the_ironsm0unds: mercutio : i also had probs with LSI cards
jpalmer: pulp and candlepin? i gotta google those...
[21:16]
m0unds: might not be so weird if it is an IOS bug. just need to get a newer one and try it.
m0unds: may have not liked some traffic on that shared network. lots of crap tends to come through IX's ;)
[21:21]
m0undshaha, true [21:22]
up_the_irons$ sudo ./birdcl sh p | grep Est
AS45177 BGP master up 04:51:03 Established
AS40528 BGP master up 04:51:02 Established
AS4739 BGP master up 04:51:52 Established
AS15133 BGP master up 04:51:03 Established
AS6939 BGP master up 04:51:05 Established
AS11798 BGP master up 04:51:03 Established
AS20144 BGP master up 04:51:02 Established
AS46489 BGP master up 04:51:04 Established
AS20161 BGP master up 14:20:24 Established
$
First few Any2 peers on BIRD :)
[21:23]
m0undsnice [21:26]
up_the_ironsgrepidemic: taking this public
grepidemic: BUT, for logging, the complexity might be too much
(we're talking about journald)
grepidemic: that part is kinda neat, yes
[21:28]
grepidemicit is pretty intuitive though. just have to learn the arguments for journalctl
the arch wiki has a really simplistic rundown of it
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/systemd#Journal
[21:29]
up_the_ironsgrepidemic: neat [21:32]
grepidemici'm dont know everything about systemd yet, but just from looking at journald, i can get used to it. [21:32]
up_the_ironsthis part sounds brittle, "If you or some program delete that directory, systemd will not recreate it automatically; however, it will be recreated during the next update of the systemd package. Until then, logs will be written to /run/systemd/journal, and logs will be lost on reboot" [21:32]
grepidemicthe probability that debian testing will be using systemd prompted me to read more into it. [21:33]
jbergstroemI kinda dislike systemd removing choice of syslogger from hte equation [21:33]
up_the_ironswow it uses btrfs [21:33]
jbergstroembut that's systemd philosophy in general [21:33]
up_the_ironsthe large amount of changes makes me uncomfortable [21:34]
jbergstroemI'm (fortunately) on a os where I can choose to avoid systemd if I have to. Will probably revisit down the road [21:34]
grepidemicit is a big change... but it is looking like systemd will be the default for most linus distros in the near future.
all the big ones at least.
i think syslog-ng can be used with systemd/journald
[21:35]
up_the_ironsgrepidemic: they'll probably tune down the changes though, or introduce them more slowly [21:37]
grepidemicthere is still a long list of bugs in systemd.
much longer than sysvinit
[21:38]
jbergstroemthis made the rounds today as well: http://ewontfix.com/14/ [21:38]
acf_up_the_irons: it seems that NTT is having a lot of issues with Comcast and Verizon atm
http://kremvax.acfsys.net/smokeping.cgi?target=Remote.comcastnet
http://kremvax.acfsys.net/smokeping.cgi?target=Remote.verizon-snloca
[21:41]
up_the_ironsacf_: can you provide forward and reverse path? if possible [21:42]
acf_of course [21:42]
grepidemicregarding having to reboot after an update, it looks like systemd can be restarted with "systemctl daemon-reload" [21:45]
m0undsyea
when packages make changes to systemd startup configs, you have to reload the daemon too
or if you add a new service, say you install nginx or something - you'll reload the daemon and it'll become aware of nginx and allow you to control it
[21:48]
acf_comcast: http://paste.unixcube.org/k/bf88a3
verizon: http://paste.unixcube.org/k/78f880
[21:50]
m0undsbut it detects that something's different and prompts you to reload it (at least in the case of arch) [21:50]
up_the_ironsacf_: thanks
acf_: some of those routers might rate limit ICMP (we do also)
[21:53]
grepidemicmy stance on systemd is still neutral, but i do really like journald. i would use it with sysvinit if that is possible (i'm gonna go look that up). [21:57]
mercutioup_the_irons: for stuff passing through?
up_the_irons: i adjusted trafic to send out via ntt and hit the same issue
with reverse path intact
and wasn't seeing packet loss normally
it could be rate limiting sending icmp through, it does happen, but i don't think it's likely
and i've seen more than one weird ntt packet loss issue recently
[21:57]
up_the_ironsmercutio: well, traceroutes never really "pass thru"; what you see is the response to the TTL dying, and some of those ICMPs will be dropped by CPU rate limiting [21:58]
mercutioand i know it slows ssh down and that's when i notice teh packet loss in mtr
up_the_irons: yehn but it's to every hop until the destination
including the destination
[21:58]
up_the_ironsmercutio: ok, if ssh slows, then that is more of a concern [21:58]
mercutiousually if it's rate limiting you'll see like 20% 20% 0%
or such
or 20% 15% 0% 35%
etc
[21:58]
jbergstroemgrepidemic: guessing no [21:59]
mercutiolike often one hop doesn't rate limiting icmp as much [21:59]
acf_a normal 1 second interval ping shows packet loss here [21:59]
mercutioerr rate likmit [21:59]
up_the_ironsyou may want to contact their NOC (noc@us.ntt.net) [21:59]
mercutioi know it's psuedo science
up_the_irons: it was too diff destination i saw ssh packet loss
err ssh lag
i can't ssh to comcast
and it was very on/off
[21:59]
up_the_ironsstarbucks kicking me out (closing), bbiab [21:59]
mercutionlayer rate limit a lot of icmp btw
it's annoying :/
[22:00]
acf_fwiw, NTT noc says "
We are not seeing any packet loss within our network. To investigate this issue further please contact your upstream provider."
[22:00]
mercutiohaha
shit
i don't think it's necessarily ntt's fault in this instance
[22:03]
acf_my guess is overloaded interconnects [22:03]
mercutiowe determined it could be tata
it's relaly hard to know
[22:03]
acf_how about NTT <-> Verizon [22:04]
mercutiocos of what up_the_irons said about icmp rate limiting
got a test destination?
[22:04]
acf_yeah [22:04]
mercutiook tell me i'll test it
but i'll make another coffee first :)
[22:04]
acf_72.55.8.69 for comcast
108.40.173.223 for verizon (beware super slow dsl)
but no packet loss to google
[22:05]
mercutioi repeated the comcast issue [22:06]
acf_I agree it's probably not in the NTT backbone [22:06]
mercutiook verizon normal path is via alter.net
(verizon)
which a little jitter
is AS2914 ntt
yip cool
verizon looks fine too
via ntt
which means it's prob reverse path if chornically bad
oh no some packet loss
[22:06]
acf_it seems like the loss is only at the lax verizon <-> NTT exchange btw [22:09]
mercutioit's not nearly as bad as that comcast one was [22:09]
acf_I get http://paste.unixcube.org/k/e57747 [22:10]
mercutiothe jitter is worse via ntt too
this is via lax
i screwed my up my other route i don't think i can send via sj
oh i can send via sj
interesting
via san jose only seeing packet loss on last hop and in betwen hops
err and some early ones
which always depriortise
but via los angeles seing it on last 3 hops
err 4 hops
but i changed source ip gah
[22:10]
acf_yep. that's what I've been seeing [22:11]
mercutiolast 4 hops? [22:12]
acf_yeah [22:12]
mercutiowhy am i only seeing last hop
bah i'll fowrad it through oso i can keep to same source address
the jitter is def worse via ntt
ok last two hops now
and it's either wose right now
or sj is worse than la for forward path with reverse path combined too
i'm seeing 17% packet loss
[22:12]
acf_http://paste.unixcube.org/k/78f880
the bottom one basically describes what I've been seeing for the last few days
[22:14]
mercutioyeah that's what i was seeing orig
hangon i'll pastebin
actually what's your paste thing :)
[22:14]
acf_http://paste.unixcube.org/
runs from arp
[22:15]
mercutioheh
cool
http://paste.unixcube.org/k/e57f7a
it went down a bit
so sampling bias :)
it seems like it gets better and worse
[22:15]
acf_yeah, that's been happening a lot for me [22:16]
mercutioso ok, it doesn't matter if it's sj or la
and it's better over alter.net
i'll shift it back to alter.net
and wait a minute or two
oh only being last two hops i think is cos shorter route?
i having problems cutting grr
i hate linux cutg and pate
paste
http://paste.unixcube.org/k/7dfe16
weird going from top to bottom fixed it
[22:16]
acf_that one looks nice [22:20]
mercutiooh i got a packet dropped
that's like what was happeing with comcast too :/
[22:20]
acf_maybe my crappy dsl
http://paste.unixcube.org/k/8ad869
[22:20]
mercutiowell the first one had depriorisation on some hops [22:20]
acf_packet loss stops when return path changes (NTT <-> Verizon in Dallas instead of LAX) [22:20]
mercutiobut still packet loss to destination is WAY down
and the source ip remained the same
so basically it doesn't matter if it goes via sj or la from ntt
they both suck
but alter.net is fine
well when i talk about fowrard path you're talking about return path right
forward path for me is my traffic going to your dsl
and return path for you is traffic coming to you
[22:21]
acf_yep, I'm switching them [22:22]
mercutiook so dallas is better [22:22]
acf_yeah [22:23]
mercutiolos angeles and san jose may share some hidden path
like i don't know what city you in
but i'm sure it's not in california
[22:23]
acf_lsanca == San Luis Obispo, CA [22:23]
mercutioso there's probably an in between point hidden
you are in california?
[22:23]
acf_everything from here goes though lax
yep
verizon dsl sucks
[22:23]
mercutiodude your internet sucks
i have better pings to new york :/
[22:23]
acf_sometimes it's not as bad lol
*lsanca snloca
[22:24]
mercutioyeah i'm in new zealand which you may have been able to tell from those traces ;)
and that's from dsl
why woudl it e going via dallas
[22:24]
acf_ntt.net is in tx [22:25]
mercutiooh hmm
ntt.net is japanese
[22:25]
acf_us.ntt.net goes the same place afaik [22:25]
mercutiohmm i found somewhere with nlayer to trace from
it's still jittery but not lossy
it's nlayer -> alter.net -> verizon
[22:26]
acf_the arp path does that once in a while [22:26]
mercutioahh ok
yeh it looks fine
[22:27]
acf_yesterday I think it did that and the packet loss stopped [22:27]
mercutioi don't think up_the_irons wants to get involved in screwing with routes lots [22:27]
acf_yeah that sounds messy [22:27]
mercutioheh i did it a bit before
but i just did sweeping generalisations
like "prepend anything that says cogent"
so that if a non cogent route is available it tcan take that
if it's not much longer
and some shift for at&t traffic
if it's just verizon and comcast which both have heaps of users maybe he'd make adjustments?
1% packet loss via nlayer now heh
[22:27]
acf_maybe. it seems like he has ntt prioritized heavily? [22:29]
mercutioit hink your dsl does drop packets a bit too [22:29]
acf_likely [22:29]
mercutioit's default route
cos the old router has 100k table limit
comcast has 180 routes
i dunno how many verizon have
[22:29]
acf_plenty I'm sure [22:29]
mercutiobut i reckon we should try and get them to be part of it :)
not necessarily
bigger providers often have less prefixes
as they just get huge chunks
i can check
yeh
verizon have heaps
198.181.111.0/24, 198.181.112.0/24
etc
nearly 1500
oh that can't be aggregated
cos that would be 110 and 111
198.105.10.0/24 and 198.105.11.0/24
that can be aggregated though
and 198.105.8.0/24 and 198.105.9.0/24
[22:30]
acf_"AS701 announces bogons"
why would they do that?
[22:33]
mercutiodo they [22:33]
acf_http://bgp.he.net/AS701#_asinfo [22:34]
mercutio192.203.48.0/20 looks dodgy
nah it looks fine actually
what bogons
[22:34]
acf_http://bgp.he.net/AS701#_bogons
oh wow 192.168.0.0/16
oh 198.168.0.0/16
[22:35]
up_the_ironswow [22:36]
mercutio192 is mostly legacy space
up_the_irons: we talked a lot while you were away
[22:36]
up_the_ironsi saw the scrollback [22:36]
mercutioi dunno how bogus these ips really are
it's more just that no-one has notes on what they are
[22:37]
up_the_ironstraffic issues on other networks is a PITA. You fix one thing, another thing breaks. It never ends. [22:37]
mercutioup_the_irons: yes
which is why it only makes sense if it's severe
[22:38]
acf_I would think NTT and Verizon would have decent networks and be fairly responsive to issues of this severity
oh well
[22:39]
mercutiowell ntt have been having issues only recently right?
i reckon comcast is more worth fixing than verizon
they have way less routes too
ho hmm
ok got a comcast dsl ip
weird i'm not seeing issues, only jhitter at last hop
[22:39]
acf_things are looking better
on comcast
http://kremvax.acfsys.net/smokeping.cgi?target=Remote.comcastnet
[22:43]
mercutiooh
wow so on/off
is comcast ip static normally?
[22:43]
acf_I don't think so [22:44]
mercutiowill get him to setup smokepnig maybe :) [22:44]
m0unds_comcast tends to assign "sticky" IPs - so long as your cpe doesnt change and isnt powered off for longer than it takes to release the dhcp lease, youll likely have the same addr for a long time. [22:48]
mercutioyeh i'll get him to curl some file randomly [22:48]
m0unds_when i had residential svc, my dhcp addr stuck with me for over a year [22:48]
mercutiohe's running into some depency issues
oh interesting.
usually when people say sticky ip it's sticky until you want to access it
[22:48]
m0unds_it only changed when they brought new cmts gear up
at least in my case
[22:49]
mercutiooh
maybe they'll do that to him
is 4 msec jitter normal?
[22:49]
m0unds_yea [22:50]
mercutioit's 0.1 jitter two hops prior
(and worse the hop immediately before
oh i thought that may mean he was legacy node
[22:50]
m0unds_i dont tend to worry til it hits +/- 15-20ms continually [22:51]
mercutiowell both traces have go ne over 500 seconds / 500 pings with no loss [22:51]
m0unds_hm [22:51]
mercutioi worry about 2 or 3 msec jitter normally
but maye i shouldn't
for idle connectinos
it tends to suggest there's some congestion somewehre
but it depends on bandwidth etc
like 2 to 3 msec jitter on gigabit means it's pretty packed
[22:51]
m0unds_also, not sure if this is still the case, but when looking at comcast rdns for intermediate gear, he = 100gbit, te = 10gbit
since they use lotsa j gear
lots of fun hw to play with
[22:52]
mercutiothis is te [22:55]
............ (idle for 58mn)
acf_thinking about it more, latency between verizon and ntt in lax has always doubled from ~30 to ~60 for me
ie, at last verizon hop is 30ms and first ntt hop is 60ms
[23:53]

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